[quote]tuttle wrote:
It is how I got to 135 DB Shoulder Presses,[/quote]
How much did you weigh when you did this? You must be damn enormous if you can do this with decent form.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]tuttle wrote:
It is how I got to 135 DB Shoulder Presses,[/quote]
How much did you weigh when you did this? You must be damn enormous if you can do this with decent form. [/quote]
Amount of words typically is inversely proportional to amount of truth…
I was about 240, I’ve posted pics on my thread of how I looked a couple of weeks ago at 220. I would say that I usually surprised my spotters when I lift, because they don’t expect it. They expected like half reps or for me struggle to get one rep or something.
I don’t do that anymore though, I was doing that last October; just because my triceps did the work not my shoulders. I have all my isolation exercises at the beginning now and presses are at the end. My shoulders have grown because of it. Knowing I was getting closer to competition I decided to really focus on rear delts, and little more on side.
[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
God damn, those squats would be brutal. If I were to use my true 20 rep max, I’d be somewhere in the 350 range. 8 sets of 12 at 350 would be damn near impossible for me, and with 30-60 seconds in between? Fucking forget it! And I’m not even natural. This would be extraordinarily difficult with just 225 for me. I doubt I could even do that without some extra conditioning work.[/quote]
You’re not natty? Wow![/quote]
LOL. It’s only a recent development, but no I’m not anymore. I added over 100 lbs to my squat in 6 months earlier this year, and about 70 lbs to my bench press, and I didn’t change weight classes. Results not typical for nattys…
I’m gonna try this 8 sets of 12 thing at 225 tonight, 90 seconds between sets. Wish me luck guys!
Question: If I can’t get through this as prescribed, should I drop the weight for additional sets, or increase the rest between sets?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I’m gonna try this 8 sets of 12 thing at 225 tonight, 90 seconds between sets. Wish me luck guys!
Question: If I can’t get through this as prescribed, should I drop the weight for additional sets, or increase the rest between sets?
[/quote]
Good luck. No, don’t drop the weight even further, increase the rest time if you really need it. But you won’t need it, you will succeed!
I actually tried the squats yesterday. It was harder than I thought it would be.
I did 225 with constant tension Jaypierce reps – no true lockout, “pumping” each rep – and started with only 60 second rests. I quickly regretted this decision. Set 1 was easy but set 2 was not. After set 3 I bumped the rest up to 90 seconds, but it was too late – on Set 4 I had to resort to Jaypierce-not-approved normal reps – i.e. locking out, 1 second pause at top – and still barely finished the set. I bailed soon after.
So, I failed 
In my defense, I made a few decisions based on being an arrogant bastard that probably limited my chance of success. 1) Resting 60s instead of 90s. 2) I worked up to a heavy triple before doing these “light” sets. 3) I’m in a major caloric deficit right now, and did a MAG-10 pulse fast the day before (815 calories all day).
I guess now I have to re-attempt in a few weeks to prove I can do it.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Question: If I can’t get through this as prescribed, should I drop the weight for additional sets, or increase the rest between sets?[/quote]
The goal of the workout is to do 8x12 with a strictly-timed rest and build/maintain a pump. The goal isn’t to do 8x12 with 225. Keep the rest strict, don’t hesitate to reduce the weight as needed. Maybe even anticipate it by loading smaller/easier to ditch plates on the ends.
Similar to Gironda’s 8x8 training, the brief rest is what makes this style of training. Hats off to 'ya for giving it a fair go, Flip. Hopefully video is to follow, for entertainment more than confirmation. 
(Which reminds me, it’s August. BRB, starting check-in thread.)
From Brad Kelly’s article on Nubret’s routine:
“Serge always did 6 or more sets of 12 reps, using a weight for the first set he could likely lift for 20 reps. He also never went to true failure on any set and focused on keeping the pump throughout the workout. Using such a high volume combined with low rest periods meant he never went very heavy, something many bodybuilders’ egos won’t allow.
[…]
Serge rested between 30 seconds to one minute between upper body exercises and between one to two minutes on lower body exercises. Occasionally, he would start paring down rest periods by 15 seconds every two weeks to get more work in during a shorter amount of time.”
And as a general reminder, squats were only a fraction of the workout. The rest of the suggested quad routine is to follow up with leg presses 8x12 and leg extensions 6x12, then chest work later on.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I’m gonna try this 8 sets of 12 thing at 225 tonight, 90 seconds between sets. Wish me luck guys!
Question: If I can’t get through this as prescribed, should I drop the weight for additional sets, or increase the rest between sets?
[/quote]
Definitely start with 90sec rest and stick with it. Drop the weight when necessary, about 10% at a time, but only when you actually miss a rep. Keeping blood sugar up helps, so something like Plazma or anything else sweetened with dextrose will be a lifesaver.
Like I said, you should be able to hit about four sets, but I say that based on the 315x20 vid you posted. I have no idea what your metabolic conditioning is like right now.
If you’re going to give this a real go, hit it twice a week for the next 4-6 weeks, and watch your legs blow up. Take before and after pics. It’s hard to imagine how dramatic the difference is.
[quote]craze9 wrote:
I actually tried the squats yesterday. It was harder than I thought it would be.
I did 225 with constant tension Jaypierce reps – no true lockout, “pumping” each rep – and started with only 60 second rests. I quickly regretted this decision. Set 1 was easy but set 2 was not. After set 3 I bumped the rest up to 90 seconds, but it was too late – on Set 4 I had to resort to Jaypierce-not-approved normal reps – i.e. locking out, 1 second pause at top – and still barely finished the set. I bailed soon after.
So, I failed In my defense, I made a few decisions based on being an arrogant bastard that probably limited my chance of success. 1) Resting 60s instead of 90s. 2) I worked up to a heavy triple before doing these “light” sets. 3) I’m in a major caloric deficit right now, and did a MAG-10 pulse fast the day before (815 calories all day).
I guess now I have to re-attempt in a few weeks to prove I can do it.[/quote]
Caloric deficit with this would suck. The heavy work beforehand may or may not have affected you, depending on your conditioning, but along with the deficit, you didn’t do yourself any favors here.
Lol at JayPierce reps. They are hard as hell, though. I have a love/hate thing going on with them. I hate 'em during the session with a passion (similar to how I hate John Meadows toward the end of a a partial rep delt raise set), but the results are astounding.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Question: If I can’t get through this as prescribed, should I drop the weight for additional sets, or increase the rest between sets?[/quote]
The goal of the workout is to do 8x12 with a strictly-timed rest and build/maintain a pump. The goal isn’t to do 8x12 with 225. Keep the rest strict, don’t hesitate to reduce the weight as needed. Maybe even anticipate it by loading smaller/easier to ditch plates on the ends.
Similar to Gironda’s 8x8 training, the brief rest is what makes this style of training. Hats off to 'ya for giving it a fair go, Flip. Hopefully video is to follow, for entertainment more than confirmation. (Which reminds me, it’s August. BRB, starting check-in thread.)
From Brad Kelly’s article on Nubret’s routine:
“Serge always did 6 or more sets of 12 reps, using a weight for the first set he could likely lift for 20 reps. He also never went to true failure on any set and focused on keeping the pump throughout the workout. Using such a high volume combined with low rest periods meant he never went very heavy, something many bodybuilders’ egos won’t allow.
[…]
Serge rested between 30 seconds to one minute between upper body exercises and between one to two minutes on lower body exercises. Occasionally, he would start paring down rest periods by 15 seconds every two weeks to get more work in during a shorter amount of time.”
And as a general reminder, squats were only a fraction of the workout. The rest of the suggested quad routine is to follow up with leg presses 8x12 and leg extensions 6x12, then chest work later on.[/quote]
I’ve read some conflicting info on the subject. Some say he advocated taking every set to failure, but that doesn’t make sense. How would you possibly do eight sets with the same weight for the same reps and take every set to failure? The reason I suggest to only drop the weight if you actually miss a rep is because he might surprise himself. Sometimes I’ll think there’s no way I’m getting through the next set, but somehow make it through.
Squats are only a fraction of Nubret’s workout, but for someone just giving it a try, they’re more than enough to kick your stick in the dirt - and elicit a huge muscular adaptation in a short amount of time.
Your legs will feel like over-stuffed sausages after about three weeks.
I agree with Jay and Chris. I feel like the short rest periods are essential here. That’s why I keep telling you guys 225 is too much for me, lol. I’ve done short rest periods like this, and I know how humbling it can be. I seriously think this would be incredibly tough even if I started at 135, but I’m willing to give it a go with 225 for the first 2 or 3 sets.
For those who suggested dropping the weight: Nubret was adamant that you keep the weight the same for all sets. Besides, the weights are already very light to start with. Instead, you manipulate rest periods if you need to. That’s also how you’re supposed to take each set close to failure (keep in mind his English wasn’t very good): as you get used to the routine, you can make the rest period extra short if the previous set was too easy instead of strictly timing the breaks.
[quote]knokkelezoute73 wrote:
For those who suggested dropping the weight: Nubret was adamant that you keep the weight the same for all sets. Besides, the weights are already very light to start with. Instead, you manipulate rest periods if you need to. That’s also how you’re supposed to take each set close to failure (keep in mind his English wasn’t very good): as you get used to the routine, you can make the rest period extra short if the previous set was too easy instead of strictly timing the breaks.[/quote]
You’re right, I have read that. But trying this for the first time, you’d be hard pressed to keep the weight the same for eight sets. I would consider that to be something to work up to.
I think it’s preferable to drop the weight down as opposed to just not getting your reps in.
THIS IS WHY I SAID 135 IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU GUYZ!!!
Jeez.
I’ll squat twice this week. First time I’ll start at 225 and manipulate the weight, the next time I’ll manipulate the rest. I’ll let you guys know which is harder. Maybe next week I’ll actually use 135 and not manipulate any variables.
Alright, I did it. Last night was a good opportunity to get this done, as I only had about a 20 minute window to get my workout done. I would have filmed it, but I used the stopwatch on my phone instead. Didn’t really think that through before I went to the gym.
First set was 225. I went ahead and dropped it to 185 for the second set, because I could tell that I certainly wasn’t getting through 8 sets at that weight, and I’d probably have to drop well below 185 if I pushed 225 for too many sets. This ended up being the right idea, in my opinion, as I was able to get the remaining 7 sets done at 185. All reps were constant tension style. No pauses in any set. The entire workout took just under 14 minutes.
A few observations:
I don’t believe the constant tension style is any more difficult than standing all the way up and immediately going back down. It may even be a little easier. I guess everyone’s different, but this is what my experiences indicate to me. Could vary depending on a person’s squatting style, I would think.
The first 5-6 sets weren’t that bad, but the last 2 were pretty rough. I actually had some leg shaking on the back half of the last set. This indicated to me that I had chosen the right weight. I’m sure I could have gotten through a 9th set, but the knee instability would have made an injury more likely than what I’d prefer, given the minimal reward of another set.
Good job flip, though I was really interested in seeing if you could hit at least for sets at 225.
Squatting style does matter a lot. I squat close stance, full depth with a safety squat bar, so it’s closer to a front squat. Stopping short of lockout makes it a lot tougher. Wide stance back squats aren’t as bad.
Tuesday was my first high-volume workout in six weeks, and I’m at a slight caloric deficit, so it was tougher than usual:
210x12
190x10 ← big fail at that weight
170x12
150x12
150x12
130x12
then six sets of unilateral leg extensions with a 30 sec weighted stretch after each set. Along with hamstring work, 24 sets total.
I could have gotten 4 sets at 225 for sure. If all I was trying to do was that, and got to quit after that, no problem lol. Just didn’t make sense to me to go for 4 sets at 225, then have to drop to 135 or lower. I’m thinking about doing this workout a few more times over the next few weeks though. My work capacity should increase dramatically fairly quickly, so I might be able to handle 225 in a few weeks for all 8 sets. I also just bought like a pound of taurine, so that should help as well.
Side note: I wish I had a safety bar. I’ve seriously considered buying one for my gym. Not in the budget right now though.
Dr. Squat said he only used a safety squat bar until a few weeks before his competitions.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Alright, I did it. Last night was a good opportunity to get this done, as I only had about a 20 minute window to get my workout done. I would have filmed it, but I used the stopwatch on my phone instead. Didn’t really think that through before I went to the gym.
First set was 225. I went ahead and dropped it to 185 for the second set, because I could tell that I certainly wasn’t getting through 8 sets at that weight, and I’d probably have to drop well below 185 if I pushed 225 for too many sets. This ended up being the right idea, in my opinion, as I was able to get the remaining 7 sets done at 185. All reps were constant tension style. No pauses in any set. The entire workout took just under 14 minutes.
A few observations:
I don’t believe the constant tension style is any more difficult than standing all the way up and immediately going back down. It may even be a little easier. I guess everyone’s different, but this is what my experiences indicate to me. Could vary depending on a person’s squatting style, I would think.
The first 5-6 sets weren’t that bad, but the last 2 were pretty rough. I actually had some leg shaking on the back half of the last set. This indicated to me that I had chosen the right weight. I’m sure I could have gotten through a 9th set, but the knee instability would have made an injury more likely than what I’d prefer, given the minimal reward of another set.[/quote]
Well done! Going up all the way and back down immediately is probably fine for this, yes. And yes, it’s probably just conditioning holding you back for the time being.
Now wait a minute, didn’t we spend like the last 4 pages with certain people bitching about whether it was OK to lock out or take a goddamn breath at the top? Like this…
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Most likely what Nubret would have meant by a weight you could lift for 20 reps, is what you can lift for 20 reps with no pauses. As a matter of fact, I think he said to stop short of locking out, to keep tension on the muscle.[/quote]
So wait, NOW it’s going to be OK to lock out?
Sorry flip, your workout doesn’t count, do it again.