Novice Masters Level Lifter, Snatch Help

Training Powerlifting
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[quote]NewWorldMan wrote:

[quote]laujik wrote:
One thing I’ll comment on is focus on finishing the pull on both your snatch and clean. If you watch your videos you can see you are cutting the second pull off and sometimes not even extending your knees fully. You need to drive those hips forward and squeeze those cheeks!

You just seem to anxious to catch the bar and drop into squat. Also nice job on posting multiple videos. Keep it up.[/quote]
Thanks - off to the gym now - will work on finishing the pull!

[/quote]

Bar work looks good so far
-make it faster
-PULL HARD UNDER THE BAR

Heres a test. Video yourself standing up on your toes. Now SQUAT DOWN FAST. Forget your hands, no bar. You should be AT LEAST THIS FAST after a few sessions. You can be faster with a bar and with weights as you can use the bar to PULL YOURSELF* UNDER IT*.

But the bar work looks good on the whole mate. PUNCH THE BAR UP as you pull yourself down. LOCK IT HARD. When the bar gets heavier this will make more of a difference.

Snatch
-not finishing the pull

Stand tall, head up high, on your toes. THIS IS YOUR FINISH POSITION. AIM TO GET TO THIS POSITION. If you DID NOT GET HERE YOU DID NOT FULLY FINISH. Simple as that.

But your going down better.

Remember work on 1-2 things at a time and you will cover all the bases.

Your hips are coming up a tad fast, move the bar about an inch off your shins. Your not 5’3 nothing so your limbs are longer then an Elite olifter!

Keep your shoulders over the bar a tad more.

The bar work, on the bent over position (2nd pull start), lean over the bar more.

Keep up the good work mate.

yes you will need some software to stitch the videos together.

Koing

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Thanks for the feedback!

  • Koing said, “Snatch-not finishing the pull. Remember work on 1-2 things at a time and you will cover all the bases.”
    hmm - this is going to get tricky: when I focus on getting under the bar I end up not finishing the pull - when I finish the pull I end up power snatching and not getting under the bar! This reminds me of why I quit golfing 20 years ago - you fix one thing, another breaks!

  • Koing said, “Heres a test. Video yourself standing up on your toes. Now SQUAT DOWN FAST. Forget your hands, no bar.”
    I will give this a try - I guess we’ll see how fast a big 107kg 39 year old can be!

Here’s a few vids from last night:
Unless I’m wrong - it seems that when I focused on finishing the pull I end up in a higher catch position. More practice I suppose…I won’t give up on this like golf!

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Any clues on this miss? This was rep 21. I did a Joe Mills 20/20 type workout.
Here’s rep 20 with the same weight:

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your not maintaining your positions on the first pull your hips look like there shooting up as for the miss looks like you do the same as me pull back rather than up

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Regi is correct.

Hips coming up too fast = your chest is down more then it should, less upright then it should and your throwing the weight backwrds = back,

keep your shoulders more over the bar

Do pulls to mid thigh (start of the 2nd pull position) and record it. Do 3reps x 4-5sets.

I have my lifters do this every session until they can do it properly. Once they can I ditch this and have them do pulls instead. It’s a very fundamental thing to get down right.

If the lift starts off bad the chances of you making the lift is a lot worse then if you get the bar in to the correct 2nd pull position.

Are you feeling tired by the 20th rep? Or you feel okay? I’m going to try this after the British Champs with 110kg and see how I get on! Whats your recovery like inbetween reps? I’m going to take 90seconds instead.

Keep up the good work!

Koing

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[quote]Koing wrote:
Regi is correct.

Hips coming up too fast = your chest is down more then it should, less upright then it should and your throwing the weight backwrds = back,

keep your shoulders more over the bar

Do pulls to mid thigh (start of the 2nd pull position) and record it. Do 3reps x 4-5sets.

I have my lifters do this every session until they can do it properly. Once they can I ditch this and have them do pulls instead. It’s a very fundamental thing to get down right.

If the lift starts off bad the chances of you making the lift is a lot worse then if you get the bar in to the correct 2nd pull position.

Are you feeling tired by the 20th rep? Or you feel okay? I’m going to try this after the British Champs with 110kg and see how I get on! Whats your recovery like inbetween reps? I’m going to take 90seconds instead.

Keep up the good work!

Koing[/quote]

Thanks for the replies. I did get some help Saturday when I trained w/former 2 time 94kg school age national champion Mike Nackoul. He suggested similar - to work on keeping the chest high in the first pull.

Regarding the 20/20 workout - keep in mind that I am new to the SNATCH/C&J so my max. is low compared to my squat/deadlift. Therefore, these might not be ax taxing on me as a more experienced lifter w/higher numbers.

There are basically two versions of workouts that I perform:

  1. from Glenn Pendlay: 10-20 singles OnTheMinute w/80-85% (I usually get the full 20 w/snatches - pretty good about lifting on the minute, maybe once or twice during the 20 I go over - talking to someone or some other distraction. I generally only get 12-16 w/c&j and for sure I DO NOT take these on the minute bute try one lift every 1:30, getting most on time.)

  2. The Joe Mills 20/20:

    • start around 70% of max for 5 singles(30-60 seconds between lifts - enough to chalk up/listen to coaching point/etc.)
    • add 5kg and do 5 more singles
    • add 2.5kg and do 5 more singles
    • add 2.5 and single, keep adding 2.5 per single until you reach 20/21 reps.
    • once you can hit 21 reps you increase you starting weight.

I do number 1 on Tuesday/Saturday and with squats afterwards (front on Tue./back on Saturday)
No extra work on Thursday’s 20/20 - it’s a full workout on it’s own!

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Point on the 20/20 thing.

Let us know how you get on with your training.

Get some first pull videos.

Koing

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Update - sorry no vids from tonight - I need to upload some reps from Saturday.

Good news on two fronts: 1 I actually registered for the Keystone Games on 7/24 - so that’s my first meet for sure!
2 Training is finally coming together - hips staying down, finishing the pull.

I’ve been spending so much time with sub-max loads and working the reps/technique. Last Tuesday I started to ‘test’ my maxes, mainly to get a feel for what to open up with.
I had hit 65 for 5 singles one night prior, so it was ‘suggested’ to me to try 70. I pressed it out the first time, but finally got it on the fourth rep. Didn’t push the max on the jerks, trying to work out the soreness in the rear delts/upper lats when I jerk/press overhead.

Last Thursday my goal was to hit 70 on the first try - got it! And, I actually dropped under it!
I spent so much time worrying about getting under the bar that I often struggled finishing the pull. A wise 59 year old lifter at the club had always said, “finish the pull, when the weight gets heavy enough will get under it!”

Well…
he was right on my first attempt @ 70 last Thursday. I actually paused at the bottom and kinda smiled when I realized I not only got it the first time, but caught it in a full squat - standing up was easy.
72.5 took two attempts to get, and 75 was too much for this night.

Saturday was mostly rep work (ended up w/150lbs for 3 singles - different gym, power bar, plates in lbs not kg.) I repped my clean & jerk @ 165, wanted to clean a little heavier, so I did 185 then when I did 190 I decided to not chicken out and jerked it overhead with authority!

Tonight - Tuesday, back at the club, I hit 70 again on the first try, also hit 75 on first try!
80 was too much tonight - maybe next week - for sure I will get it on the 24th! Finished w/70x0,1,1,1.

Now that the snatch is coming together, I need to get ‘comfortable’ and aggressive w/my jerks.
The first session back in March the coach noted that with my long arms and 6’3" stature I need to throw the feet a little wider - the feet were landing before the arms were locked out.

I think I just need more reps w/this. Managed to hit a PR on my clean and jerk tonight as well - 50x1+2,60x1+2,67.5,75,80,85,90PR, and then 91 (I just HAD to!) The 91 when up but a little soft (no pressout but soft).
Finished up w/rack jerks: 60x2,70x2,80x1 then back squatted:100x5,120x5,145x5 (matching a rep PR) even though I hadn’t been pushing the squat recently.

My plan for Thursday is to hit 70 on first try and maybe take multiple singles w/it. Then do the same one on the c/j:80 or so.
Maybe work to maxes again on Saturday or just do a Joe Mills 20/20.

Open for suggestions but not really wanting to change too much so close to a first meet…

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Looks good mate and I’m glad it’s coming together.

I recommend maxing out fully 6 sessions outa nd then wind down 4 sessions out from the comp going to about your starters or so. But of course if your coach says otherwise follow him.

I typically max out the 2-2.5 weeks before then wind down the last 3 sessions from the comp to freshen up.

I wouldn’t do 20/20 with 3 weeks out from the comp mate. Your only doing 6 lifts at the comp and you want to be FRESH.

Koing

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[quote]Koing wrote:
Looks good mate and I’m glad it’s coming together.

I recommend maxing out fully 6 sessions outa nd then wind down 4 sessions out from the comp going to about your starters or so. But of course if your coach says otherwise follow him.

I typically max out the 2-2.5 weeks before then wind down the last 3 sessions from the comp to freshen up.

I wouldn’t do 20/20 with 3 weeks out from the comp mate. Your only doing 6 lifts at the comp and you want to be FRESH.

Koing[/quote]
Thanks for the input!

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What does your coach say?

Koing

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[quote]Koing wrote:
What does your coach say?

Koing[/quote]

Well, he’s not offered a set program. It may be that I’ve not specifically asked.

Though tonight, I was planning to just do my clean and jerk singles @80. When I hit 80 coach said keep bumping up 2.5 if they feel good.

Here’s what I’ve been doing the last two weeks (prior I’d been working singles in the sub max range to hone technique). Last week I decided to test my warm up routine and maxes: mainly to have an idea of what to open up with.
So I’ve been doing my bar work, then 40,50,55,60,65,70 on the snatch. Last Thursday I then took two attempts to get 72.5 then missed 75, backed off to 60 and did a few more singles.
Tuesday after hitting 70, I got 75, then missed 80.
Tonight I hit 70 and stayed there for 8 singles total (6 were good; #3 was a front miss, #6 was a pressout at the bottom though I recovered it w/no problem).
I will probably do similar Saturday (different gym: power bar, not o-bar, bumper plates in lbs. not kgs.)

I back squat Tue (–>1x5@145)/Sat (4x2@132); front squat light Thur (2x3@100).

Next week most like the same: Tuesday:warm up to opener (70S/85C&J) and then work up to max w/couple singles @85% to finish. Work up to 1x3 attempt w/155 back squat.
Thursday: work up to opener and do 7 or so singles at that weight. 2x3@100 front squat.
Saturday: same as Tuesday w/4x2 back squat.

Week of meet: Tuesday (maybe Monday) same as Thursday: work up to opener and take 7 or so attempts followed by light front squat:2x3@100
Thursday(maybe Wednesday):work up to taking 2/3 singles w/opener - no extra work.
Friday(do some stretching/bar work)
Saturday: meet - plan as if today:
SNATCH: open w/70, if made then 75, if made then 80 (I’ll let the coach decide if he thinks these can go higher)
Clean/Jerk: open w/85,90,95 (maybe).

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Just make sure your not doing too many singles but pre comp week is a very individual thing.

Koing

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Here’s a few vids from the past weeks. I’ve been receiving good input from coach/teammates. Yet, I am curious to know what others are seeing - in particular in regards to the two jerks.
I’ll tell you what I’m being coached/trained on once I get a little feedback.

Clean and jerk (including a missed jerk):

Recent Snatches( I think the one was a pressout):

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The Jerks your not following through properly. Your hips go forwards BUT your SHOULDERS DO NOT, your shoulders need to be inline of your hips, but they are behind and the weight in front = it will fall.

You need

bar, shoulders, hips in line or as close to as possible so it’s all bone on bone action. If either is out of alignment your using muscle to control the weight. MUCH MUCH harder at limit weight, if not impossible.

You look soft in the dip and drive and your feet need to be fast as f0ck.

Watch this dude, uber fast with his feet. This is what everyone should aim for!

PS your also slow at getting under the Cleans. Your Snatch your faster. Get a video of you pulling under a Clean/ Snatch with just the empty bar.

I’ll get around to making a bar work video sometime :slight_smile:

Koing

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UPDATE from first meet:
4+ hour drive across the state to my first meet!

My team - Pittsburgh Barbell - brought 9 lifters - 5 of which are 6’2" or more (yes we are a weightlifting team and not a basketball team!)

We had a 12 year old - Nick - first meet - 40/47.5(missed 50 c/j), a master George James - 86/112@ 69kg! Another teammate, Kevin Cornell tore it up today , 130,136,140 then 162,166, and an oh so close miss @ 170 (strong clean and quick recovery; solid jerk, lost it in front recovering the jerk).
George James had a solid performance w/86/112 @ 69kg!

Made weight, got some water/food (normal preworkout food) then proceeded to wait (our flight started late).

I took my warm ups after some brief bar work /hip stretching:40/2 50/2 60
Coach Rege walked us all through the process - I was the 8th lifter - he helped me time out my warm ups - though I missed a 62.5 and the guy after me missed his warm up attempt too - Rege thought we were trying to give him a heart attack (I made my next warm up not sure if it was 62.5 or 65)

I managed to get the 70 opener that I had planned, then proceed to miss 75
(a gym PR) twice - the first attempt @ 75 was a pathetic weak attempt
(nerves) and the second - plenty of pull, but I wilted under it - gotta get that part figured out.

Kevin Cornell had us all fired up after his 140 PR snatch - so I was ready for my clean and jerks - took a conservative 85 (wanted to get on the board) though I was tempted to hit 90 in warm ups :slight_smile:
Hit 91 and a PR 96 (gym best was 95) really solid.

Absolutely a wonderful gym (visionfitnessofpa.com) and great hosts in Brogue, PA (just south of York).

I am happy my jerks are finally coming together. Though I am not amused that they seemed to have come at the expense of being able to stand up w/my snatch

/Also happy for over 400 miles round trip on the turnpike and no speeding tickets!