I gained 90lbs my first year and a half lifting (160-250)
Drank a fuck load of milk (like Rip says in the article) and definitely went over 5000 cals a day near the end.
I was pretty fat, but I don’t regret it really. The only thing I regret is not learning proper technique on the powerlifts until very late and maybe trying too much dumb shit with my training, although you have to experiment when you’re starting out. I still got decently strong so it wasn’t too bad anyways.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Dude, I needed 5,000cals to gain weight as a newb weighing about 150lbs. I was very active in school, walked to all of my classes because I had no car…on a campus that was basically its own city. On top of that, I had a fast metabolism and lifted any time the gym was open which was mostly 5 days a week for the first two years.
In fact, I would say that if someone really has the genetics to get big, then they will need more calories than most do especially if they start off real skinny.
I really think some of you are looking at EVERYTHING through the eyes of someone who really isn’t gaining much to start with and doesn’t really want to be that big.
I was over 190lbs by my second year. You don’t make a gain like that with chicken breasts and rice or 3,000cals or less.
Yes, to get big, you have to eat big…and I think the problem most of you are having is that you really don’t have the drive for this long term to push that hard with food and training to make that sort of gain.
I am going to ask how many people on this forum have gained 100lbs in the process of gaining muscle?
80?
It is EASY to put on 20lbs of muscle. It takes way more food and way more time to gain way more than that.
Most of the people here weren’t even making progress for YEARS until some of the newer guys showed up.
What is it they have… that the rest of you don’t?
This isn’t really an activity for someone scared to eat more and scared to see what happens and THEN make changes.[/quote]
I agree with pretty much everything youve said in this thread so far, but i have to say while i havent gained 100 lbs yet, i have gained 80, and am still pretty lean (not because im a fattyphobe, i just have good genetics/metabolism for staying lean) and ive never really eaten more than 4000 cals a day. Sure somedays i get up to around 4500, but many others i only get around 3500 and on really busy days its barely over 3000. Basically all im saying is i do believe, like the OP, that a lot of people can make pretty good gains for a while without eating a 5 or 6000 calorie diet. However now that im up to about 245 im finally starting to notice that my body requires a lot more calories than it did even at 230. Also, i DO think that anyone like yourself approaching or around 300 lbs definitely needs 5-6k.
Surplus & unlimited calories are two different things.
I have never seen any guidlines in Rippetoe’s articles, however, when I started lifting in the mid-80’s we bulked at 25-30 calories per pound of bodyweight. At least 75% from solid food. Lifters with great fat-distibution genetics were able to go higher. Keep in mind that on our cheat day(s) calories were close to double. Although the OP may be an exception, Rippetoe is correct when he says “Most lifters don’t eat nearly enough to grow and get stronger”.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
there are far LESS really built people around since lifters started being this analytical about every little issue[/quote]
Makes me wonder if we have the driving magazine sales and supplement industry to thank for this. I know I will pick up an occasional muscle rag to follow contests and see pics (even though the internet makes it a hell of a lot easier), but how many times can you write the samne article about eating and training? Supplements as well, I can’t tell you the number of times a young kid at the gym asks me about some new supplement he’s going to take, but has no idea how many cals or grams of protein he’s eating each day.
I’m going to obviously express my own opinion with this, but… I think that the basics for gaining size, are a hell of a lot easier to follow than those necessary to (properly!) cut while maintaining maximum muscle.
S[/quote]
You’re right. I am doing that now but it took me a long time to do it with the results I am getting now…not to mention how the protein I am using now has helped. (I’m not bullshitting but MAG-10 has made this a hell of a lot easier).
Either way, we had the same supplement ads when we got started. I knew a guy in high school who shoplifted some Boron tablets because he wanted them that bad.
Fucking BORON tablets. But hey all of the mags were making it seem like that was just as good as steroids…that and Vanadyl sulfate, Hott Stuff (with bull’s testicles included!!!), and “Plant Sterols”…you know, because it sounds a little like “steroids” so it MUST work!
No, you can’t blame this new mass of wimp on supplement ads. I get the impression that there are much larger and much darker forces at work.
I mean, you get a smiley face just for showing up at school today…and how many of these guys do you think even have to mow their own yard
You can’t blame HustleFleck for that.
I ate near 5000 calories to get me over 200lbs, it wasn’t pretty… but it got the job done. Why people eat that much? To get your body adjusted to be able to handle that bodyweight. Resetting the physiological setpoints… For me to reach 220lbs takes me something like 3400 calories nowadays.
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything youve said in this thread so far, but i have to say while i havent gained 100 lbs yet, i have gained 80, and am still pretty lean (not because im a fattyphobe, i just have good genetics/metabolism for staying lean) and ive never really eaten more than 4000 cals a day. Sure somedays i get up to around 4500, but many others i only get around 3500 and on really busy days its barely over 3000. Basically all im saying is i do believe, like the OP, that a lot of people can make pretty good gains for a while without eating a 5 or 6000 calorie diet. However now that im up to about 245 im finally starting to notice that my body requires a lot more calories than it did even at 230. Also, i DO think that anyone like yourself approaching or around 300 lbs definitely needs 5-6k. [/quote]
You are a perfect example of what I was trying to get across…
Also yes when you get bigger calorie needs go up.
I don’t even think it’s a case of good genetics/fast metabolism… I’m willing to bet almost anyone could do the same.
X may have ate very large amounts to get to his size, and being the sort of person he is I dare say he experimented with less calories to start with… But again I suppose this depends a lot person to person.
I wouldn’t say it comes down to the whole ecto/meso/endo thing either.
I’m more of a meso/endo and from what you said about having a good metabolism you’re most likely an ecto?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
there are far LESS really built people around since lifters started being this analytical about every little issue[/quote]
Makes me wonder if we have the driving magazine sales and supplement industry to thank for this. I know I will pick up an occasional muscle rag to follow contests and see pics (even though the internet makes it a hell of a lot easier), but how many times can you write the samne article about eating and training? Supplements as well, I can’t tell you the number of times a young kid at the gym asks me about some new supplement he’s going to take, but has no idea how many cals or grams of protein he’s eating each day.
I’m going to obviously express my own opinion with this, but… I think that the basics for gaining size, are a hell of a lot easier to follow than those necessary to (properly!) cut while maintaining maximum muscle.
S[/quote]
You’re right. I am doing that now but it took me a long time to do it with the results I am getting now…not to mention how the protein I am using now has helped. (I’m not bullshitting but MAG-10 has made this a hell of a lot easier).
Either way, we had the same supplement ads when we got started. I knew a guy in high school who shoplifted some Boron tablets because he wanted them that bad.
Fucking BORON tablets. But hey all of the mags were making it seem like that was just as good as steroids…that and Vanadyl sulfate, Hott Stuff (with bull’s testicles included!!!), and “Plant Sterols”…you know, because it sounds a little like “steroids” so it MUST work!
No, you can’t blame this new mass of wimp on supplement ads. I get the impression that there are much larger and much darker forces at work.
I mean, you get a smiley face just for showing up at school today…and how many of these guys do you think even have to mow their own yard
You can’t blame HustleFleck for that.[/quote]
O tempora O mores!
In all seriousness it’s been taking me eating over the 4,500 mark to notice any gain… and the only way I get there without feeling as if I’m going to throw up after every biteful is eating dirty. I owe you for that
As to your comment about the ‘wimpification’ X I’m sure it’s that there are more gyms, what was an underground sub-culture has been commodified, made mainstream ‘sold out’ . As the amount of people going have increased, it stands to reason that you’ll get a lot more casual and unmotivated people. I’m pretty sure there are the same amount of people making progress putting plates onthe bar and inches on their arms - just there are not as many of them IN PROPORTION to the casual gym goers
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
I ate near 5000 calories to get me over 200lbs, it wasn’t pretty… but it got the job done. Why people eat that much? To get your body adjusted to be able to handle that bodyweight. Resetting the physiological setpoints… For me to reach 220lbs takes me something like 3400 calories nowadays.[/quote]
Bingo…and I have made that point for years but I don’t think it sinks in.
Does anyone think someone is going to gain 100+lbs without FORCING the body to gain that much? Outside of real genetics freaks, that ain’t happening.
Yes, it takes less calories NOW for me to maintain my current body weight…but holy shit, I nearly put some food places out of business getting to that weight in the first place.
My body wasn’t going to accept carrying that kind of size unless I convinced it that there was going to be a huge surplus of food around most of the time to allow that to happen.
Your body doesn’t give a shit how you look. It damn sure won’t allow you to gain 100lbs of lean body mass unless it is convinced that it can spare the extra load and provide for it while keeping the entire machine running.
That is why we discuss setpoints in body weight…and why after ten years, some of you still don’t get it…because clearly the bigger guys here are clueless and stupid.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
I ate near 5000 calories to get me over 200lbs, it wasn’t pretty… but it got the job done. Why people eat that much? To get your body adjusted to be able to handle that bodyweight. Resetting the physiological setpoints… For me to reach 220lbs takes me something like 3400 calories nowadays.[/quote]
Bingo…and I have made that point for years but I don’t think it sinks in.
Does anyone think someone is going to gain 100+lbs without FORCING the body to gain that much? Outside of real genetics freaks, that ain’t happening.
Yes, it takes less calories NOW for me to maintain my current body weight…but holy shit, I nearly put some food places out of business getting to that weight in the first place.
My body wasn’t going to accept carrying that kind of size unless I convinced it that there was going to be a huge surplus of food around most of the time to allow that to happen.
Your body doesn’t give a shit how you look. It damn sure won’t allow you to gain 100lbs of lean body mass unless it is convinced that it can spare the extra load and provide for it while keeping the entire machine running.
That is why we discuss setpoints in body weight…and why after ten years, some of you still don’t get it…because clearly the bigger guys here are clueless and stupid.[/quote]
And it’s even easier to fill out while recomping. When you get the hang of it isn’t hard to get more size as long as you give it the time and calories.
[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything youve said in this thread so far, but i have to say while i havent gained 100 lbs yet, i have gained 80, and am still pretty lean (not because im a fattyphobe, i just have good genetics/metabolism for staying lean) and ive never really eaten more than 4000 cals a day. Sure somedays i get up to around 4500, but many others i only get around 3500 and on really busy days its barely over 3000. Basically all im saying is i do believe, like the OP, that a lot of people can make pretty good gains for a while without eating a 5 or 6000 calorie diet. However now that im up to about 245 im finally starting to notice that my body requires a lot more calories than it did even at 230. Also, i DO think that anyone like yourself approaching or around 300 lbs definitely needs 5-6k. [/quote]
You are a perfect example of what I was trying to get across…
Also yes when you get bigger calorie needs go up.
I don’t even think it’s a case of good genetics/fast metabolism… I’m willing to bet almost anyone could do the same.
X may have ate very large amounts to get to his size, and being the sort of person he is I dare say he experimented with less calories to start with… But again I suppose this depends a lot person to person.
I wouldn’t say it comes down to the whole ecto/meso/endo thing either.
I’m more of a meso/endo and from what you said about having a good metabolism you’re most likely an ecto?[/quote]
Take a look at my pics in my hub, do you think I have a fast metabolism?
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything youve said in this thread so far, but i have to say while i havent gained 100 lbs yet, i have gained 80, and am still pretty lean (not because im a fattyphobe, i just have good genetics/metabolism for staying lean) and ive never really eaten more than 4000 cals a day. Sure somedays i get up to around 4500, but many others i only get around 3500 and on really busy days its barely over 3000. Basically all im saying is i do believe, like the OP, that a lot of people can make pretty good gains for a while without eating a 5 or 6000 calorie diet. However now that im up to about 245 im finally starting to notice that my body requires a lot more calories than it did even at 230. Also, i DO think that anyone like yourself approaching or around 300 lbs definitely needs 5-6k. [/quote]
You are a perfect example of what I was trying to get across…
Also yes when you get bigger calorie needs go up.
I don’t even think it’s a case of good genetics/fast metabolism… I’m willing to bet almost anyone could do the same.
X may have ate very large amounts to get to his size, and being the sort of person he is I dare say he experimented with less calories to start with… But again I suppose this depends a lot person to person.
I wouldn’t say it comes down to the whole ecto/meso/endo thing either.
I’m more of a meso/endo and from what you said about having a good metabolism you’re most likely an ecto?[/quote]
Take a look at my pics in my hub, do you think I have a fast metabolism?[/quote]
How should I know?
Look don’t get your panties in a bunch about this, I’m not correlating a fast metabolism to being able to grow with less calories, that’s just dumb.
I’m trying to correlate that the poster I replied to has said he has a fast metabolism, and while I do not… We garner similar results.
I suppose it just doesn’t compute with a few of the posters here that just because you are eating X amount of calories it doesn’t mean you need that many to grow.
It’s like filling a truck up with gas for a 20mile journey. It’ll get there, but obviously I didn’t need that much to make it to its goal.
If it’s easier for some people, fine eat that much. I’m ONLY saying that I don’t think it is the epitome of nutrition to just go for more calories when you don’t need to.
[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything youve said in this thread so far, but i have to say while i havent gained 100 lbs yet, i have gained 80, and am still pretty lean (not because im a fattyphobe, i just have good genetics/metabolism for staying lean) and ive never really eaten more than 4000 cals a day. Sure somedays i get up to around 4500, but many others i only get around 3500 and on really busy days its barely over 3000. Basically all im saying is i do believe, like the OP, that a lot of people can make pretty good gains for a while without eating a 5 or 6000 calorie diet. However now that im up to about 245 im finally starting to notice that my body requires a lot more calories than it did even at 230. Also, i DO think that anyone like yourself approaching or around 300 lbs definitely needs 5-6k. [/quote]
You are a perfect example of what I was trying to get across…
Also yes when you get bigger calorie needs go up.
I don’t even think it’s a case of good genetics/fast metabolism… I’m willing to bet almost anyone could do the same.
X may have ate very large amounts to get to his size, and being the sort of person he is I dare say he experimented with less calories to start with… But again I suppose this depends a lot person to person.
I wouldn’t say it comes down to the whole ecto/meso/endo thing either.
I’m more of a meso/endo and from what you said about having a good metabolism you’re most likely an ecto?[/quote]
Take a look at my pics in my hub, do you think I have a fast metabolism?[/quote]
How should I know?
Look don’t get your panties in a bunch about this, I’m not correlating a fast metabolism to being able to grow with less calories, that’s just dumb.
I’m trying to correlate that the poster I replied to has said he has a fast metabolism, and while I do not… We garner similar results.
I suppose it just doesn’t compute with a few of the posters here that just because you are eating X amount of calories it doesn’t mean you need that many to grow.
It’s like filling a truck up with gas for a 20mile journey. It’ll get there, but obviously I didn’t need that much to make it to its goal.
If it’s easier for some people, fine eat that much. I’m ONLY saying that I don’t think it is the epitome of nutrition to just go for more calories when you don’t need to.[/quote]
Why are you having a hard time with this?
I just explained this shit about as well as I could but that still isn’t enough?
This DEPENDS ON YOUR FUCKING GOALS. if your goals are to be a really huge mutherfucker but you currently weigh 150 fucking pounds, you will likely have to FORCE your body to accept a much higher weight set point. It isn’t going to just casually gain more muscle than fat as you put on 100lbs.
In simple terms, you literally have to trick your body in some cases in order for it to accept “240” “250” or whatever as normal before it will allow you to fill up that size with more muscle.
Now, I have explained this in detail. I have shown most people by doing it with myself over the last decade…and taking pictures when at my heaviest weights to show this…but that still isn’t enough??
Have you stopped to think that maybe, just MAYBE this is why you aren’t bigger?
Good luck making that sort of progress by only going up 200cals a week slowly as you ONLY gain 1lbs a month like some on this site are doing.
Anyone remember that fellow who claimed to only eat fruit, sometimes one orange a day?
anybody remember that pork scratchings guy?
[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
[quote]BruceLeeFan wrote:
[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything youve said in this thread so far, but i have to say while i havent gained 100 lbs yet, i have gained 80, and am still pretty lean (not because im a fattyphobe, i just have good genetics/metabolism for staying lean) and ive never really eaten more than 4000 cals a day. Sure somedays i get up to around 4500, but many others i only get around 3500 and on really busy days its barely over 3000. Basically all im saying is i do believe, like the OP, that a lot of people can make pretty good gains for a while without eating a 5 or 6000 calorie diet. However now that im up to about 245 im finally starting to notice that my body requires a lot more calories than it did even at 230. Also, i DO think that anyone like yourself approaching or around 300 lbs definitely needs 5-6k. [/quote]
You are a perfect example of what I was trying to get across…
Also yes when you get bigger calorie needs go up.
I don’t even think it’s a case of good genetics/fast metabolism… I’m willing to bet almost anyone could do the same.
X may have ate very large amounts to get to his size, and being the sort of person he is I dare say he experimented with less calories to start with… But again I suppose this depends a lot person to person.
I wouldn’t say it comes down to the whole ecto/meso/endo thing either.
I’m more of a meso/endo and from what you said about having a good metabolism you’re most likely an ecto?[/quote]
Take a look at my pics in my hub, do you think I have a fast metabolism?[/quote]
How should I know?
Look don’t get your panties in a bunch about this, I’m not correlating a fast metabolism to being able to grow with less calories, that’s just dumb.
I’m trying to correlate that the poster I replied to has said he has a fast metabolism, and while I do not… We garner similar results.
I suppose it just doesn’t compute with a few of the posters here that just because you are eating X amount of calories it doesn’t mean you need that many to grow.
It’s like filling a truck up with gas for a 20mile journey. It’ll get there, but obviously I didn’t need that much to make it to its goal.
If it’s easier for some people, fine eat that much. I’m ONLY saying that I don’t think it is the epitome of nutrition to just go for more calories when you don’t need to.[/quote]
My panties are not in a bunch, I only have sand in my vagina.
But on a more cereal note… do you want to get big? If yes, then you need to get the calories in. The type of metabolism will have some influence on the the amount of calories.
It’s a lot easier to get bigger with calories for your body to flourish in. You’ll get to a certain bodyweight, let’s say for example 200lbs. In the beginning it won’t be pretty, but the longer the body is in the 200lbs range… the easier it gets for your body to maintain that state. And then it’s time to fill out, which will be far easier when only gaining 1 lbs a month… while the body will fight you to constantly to gain.
That’s the whole concept of adjusting those setpoints, which will make it easier to gain. And again that 200lbs mark is just an example.
If people don’t get it, we can discuss this over and over… just like in a circle. But people who get this will get tired. The path has already been set by bigger people with experience, why the fuck would you want to reinvent the wheel?
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
If people don’t get it, we can discuss this over and over… just like in a circle. But people who get this will get tired. The path has already been set by bigger people with experience, why the fuck would you want to reinvent the wheel?[/quote]
LOL. I have been saying this since I first logged in…but they apparently only listen if an author finally puts on paper 10 years later.
They would rather sit back and assume everyone is just getting fat in spite of seeing others literally blow past them in terms of progress.
GODDAMMIT THIS THREAD MAKES ME WANT TO EAT MORE MEATLOAF!
OP you’ve gained weight, congrats. But I checked your lifts and man you’re doing something wrong. You’ve been on these boards for years and they’re still very low. I know you injured your shoulder but what kind of injury was it? I’ve been training round a shoulder injury the last few weeks and still hitting PRs.
You say it yourself; " At most I’ve trained for 6months without doing some retarded program or a retarded diet… "
Your log is full of things you’ve done in the past and of things that you should be doing but there aren’t actually any posts about you hitting the weights and setting PRs week on week. You’ve made plans for when you “stall” but you haven’t even put in enough work to truly stall yet. Too much talk bro. You need to buy a power cage or join a gym.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
If people don’t get it, we can discuss this over and over… just like in a circle. But people who get this will get tired. The path has already been set by bigger people with experience, why the fuck would you want to reinvent the wheel?[/quote]
LOL. I have been saying this since I first logged in…but they apparently only listen if an author finally puts on paper 10 years later.
They would rather sit back and assume everyone is just getting fat in spite of seeing others literally blow past them in terms of progress.[/quote]
The whole overanalyzing aspect in combination of looking for the magic feather and a lack of knowlegde. Those with the ability of a common sense will imitate and learn more and more down the road.
It’s the same in the gym… ignorance and the ability to stay ignorant.
about prisioners who put good amount of muscles while eating normally I believe that spending so much time without working (prision) helps A LOT the recovery.
blast,eat,rest.
99% of weightlifters get a job,prisioners not.
about eating,if you train you are more hungry,as far you eat enough to repair damnaged muscle tissue plus the stress of training (MB etc etc), it’s ok=you become bigger.
I’m an objectivist (not sure if it is right english word,excuse me if not,english is not my language)so…I see Jay Cutler eating 5000kl pr day so I think I have to eat the same to become big as him.
BUT he has 100lb of lean mass more than me.
SO, He has to eat 5000 kl because he is big or he is big because he eats 5000kl per day?
food for thoughts.