Not Seeing Improvement

[quote]darwin420 wrote:
Once you get the forms down, pile the weight on and get to work.[/quote]

That’s the key right there. It makes no difference what program you’re doing if it lacks intensity. Intensity is hard to achieve (safely) if you don’t have good form. Don’t be afraid to do hundreds of empty bar squats, cleans and presses if that’s what it takes to learn the movement. Once those motions are ingrained you must push yourself to your limits in order to illicite a growth response from your muscles. Once you’ve achieved a proper intensity level with your lifts, be consistent and you will gain mass and strength. Of course your diet and rest must be dialed in as well for optimal results.

It sounds to me like you have the drive to succeed but you’re overdoing it in your haste to make progress. Keep things simple for now, learn all you can and keep at it.

[quote]darwin420 wrote:
Follow the Starting Strength routine as outlined,
[/quote]
what about my abs and cardio? when should i work it out?

lol. I’m now confused… the other guy said, i can add whatever exercise I want after the rippetoe…

thanks guys… I’ll have a break tomorrow, and do the workout B on the next day. For now, I’ll just read some more about the rippetoe. but, if you do the rippetoe, how long should you be doing the entire program, or how long do you stay in the gym? and how many months do i need to do this rippetoe? and what about the warm ups?

[quote]beibitoi wrote:
darwin420 wrote:
Follow the Starting Strength routine as outlined,

what about my abs and cardio? when should i work it out?

lol. I’m now confused… the other guy said, i can add whatever exercise I want after the rippetoe…

thanks guys… I’ll have a break tomorrow, and do the workout B on the next day. For now, I’ll just read some more about the rippetoe. but, if you do the rippetoe, how long should you be doing the entire program, or how long do you stay in the gym? and how many months do i need to do this rippetoe? and what about the warm ups?

[/quote]

You shouldn’t be confused. It has been stated clearly (and repeated) that you should simply (1) follow the Rippetoe program, (2) eat big but clean and (3) get plenty of rest.

You can work abz all you want, I suppose, if it makes you feel good.

The more cardio you do, the more you will have to eat. I would say do only 2 high intensity cardio sessions per week for 20-30 minutes on you off days.

If Rippetoe is too easy you aren’t using enough weight and probably aren’t going really deep on your squats. Up the weight, up the intensity and drop that other stuff. Do some research on proper form for deads, squats, cleans, etc. If you are deadlifting 60 lbs I seriously doubt you are doing it correctly.

[quote]beibitoi wrote:
darwin420 wrote:
Follow the Starting Strength routine as outlined,

what about my abs and cardio? when should i work it out?

lol. I’m now confused… the other guy said, i can add whatever exercise I want after the rippetoe…

thanks guys… I’ll have a break tomorrow, and do the workout B on the next day. For now, I’ll just read some more about the rippetoe. but, if you do the rippetoe, how long should you be doing the entire program, or how long do you stay in the gym? and how many months do i need to do this rippetoe? and what about the warm ups?

[/quote]

What I’ve been told, is to keep doing Rippetoe until it no longer works. Then to switch to something new. Over time your body will adapt to any routine, and that’s when you need to shake it up.

As for ab work, the accessory work in Rippetoe has some ab work - incline situps. Not as much as I think you’re wanting, but it’s there as an accessory. The compounds will get your abs, especially if your form is good and your weight is heavy.

If you really feel the need to add more ab work, do it AFTER you’ve done all your sets for Rippetoes. But, really, if you’re up to doing a lot of ab work, you should be adding more weight to your lifts.

Try it for 3 months, and I’m sure you’ll be happy with the results. Like I said, I’ve only been on it a month, and I’m noticing a trimming of my belly fat, and my pants and shirts are getting looser. It works, which is why it’s so often recommended for beginners.

ahh… yes I’ll leave it to the Rippetoe folks.

Did you read the links (especially the second one)? If not, then do it. It would answer all of your questions.

Here is how the program is to be done (and the suggested method of how to add in the accessory work, i.e. abs, arm work, etc…):

quote
The following progression will be SPECIFIC to individuals who have NEVER LIFTED WEIGHTS BEFORE. This is not for the older guy who is getting back in shape, this is for the kid/guy with very little or zero barbell training experience. This is a slight adjustment from the original writeup I did. Mark Rippetoe and I discussed progression via conversation, and he also has a large portion of “Practical Programming” dedicated to this type of question, so here is where things stand now.

“Base Novice program”

Workout A
Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5

Workout B
Squats - 3x5
Standing Press - 3x5
Lighter pull from floor (rows 3x5 or cleans 5x3)

Why so few exercises? Why so little sets and reps? Why not add a few things right off the bat? Where the hell is the arm work? Check the Table of Contents, Section V. I address all of that specifically.

You progress on the base novice program for as long as you can add weight to the bar every workout. If you stall on one of the lifts but continue to progress on the other 2, you can make some “adjustments” to that specific troublesome lift (See Table of Contents - Section III - Programming - stalling and resetting), but continue to drive on with the other 2. Understand that 99% of you will stall faster on the presses and lighter pulls than you will on the squats and the heavy pulls (i.e. deadlifts).

Once you become tolerant to the volume contained within the base novice program, you can begin to judiciously add exercises. For some completely untrained/unfit/unathletic people, and especially for those who are “more mature” (i.e. an old fart, like me), you could end up sticking with this basic program for several weeks. For the naturally strong or the fit athlete involved in strength-oriented sports such as football, hockey, wrestling, martial arts, etc, this initiation period may only be 2 weeks, and you will be ready to tolerate added work.

At this point, 2 bodyweight exercises can be added.

Workout A
Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5
DIPS - 2 x 8-12

Workout B
Squats - 3x5
Standing Press - 3x5
Pull from floor (rows 3x5 or cleans 5x3)
PULLUPS/CHINS - 2 x 8-12 - (3 sets of pullups/chins can be done if you do the cleans instead of the rows)

You add dips to Workout A and chins to workout B. Which should you do, pullups or chinups? How wide should your hands be? Why 8-12 reps? See Table of Contents, Section II, under Accessory Exercises.

Give this a few weeks. Most people, if they introduce these 2 exercises correctly (i.e. you don’t rush it, and you maintain proper nutrition/rest/recovery) will be able to make a few months worth of solid progress with this exact template. Eventually, however, most of you will get impatient and will INSIST on adding some direct arm work. Here is how you should add it.

Friday workout only
curl - 2 x 8-12
triceps extension (TriEx)- 2 x 8-12

Notice it’s not added to Workout A AND Workout B? notice it’s not always added to the SAME workout all the time? You add it to the Friday workout because you will have an extra day to recover from the training. Exact techniques on the curls and extensions is further discussed in Section II, Accessory Exercises.

Abdominal work is desirable. Abdominal work can be added carefully from the time you begin the training. Do NOT overdo this, as your midsection will take a pounding from the squats, deadlifts, and pulls from the floor. You do not want your midsection tired while performing these lifts or you can injure yourself. As a result, I highly recommend you start off with 1 set of abs per workout during the first week, and add no more than 1 set of abdominal exercise per week. For more specific advice regarding abdominal training, once again, head over to Section II.

For additional training of the posterior chain (i.e. the lower back, the glutes and the hamstrings), you can add back extensions, aka “hyperextensions”, reverse hypers or GHR (glute ham raises). BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN ADDING THIS TRAINING. It’s not supposed to be exhausting, so don’t make it so. You probably won’t need this for a LONG time. Regardless, 1 or possibly 2 sets of 12-15 reps, not to failure, should be sufficient. Of course, head to Section II for more specific information regarding these exercises and their proper application.

If you add ALL this stuff, this is how it will look. Note that it will probably take several months before you really need to work up to this level and volume (and complexity). For God’s sakes, DON’T START OFF WITH ALL THIS STUFF!!! Do the BASE NOVICE WORKOUT for as long as possible. The less work you do in the gym at the start, the more energy you have for recovery. The more energy you have for recovery, the better you will grow. You only need to add the extra “stuff” once the original “stuff” no longer sufficiently stresses your body.

Monday - Workout A
Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5
Dips - 2 x 8-15
GHR - 2 x 12-15
Abs

Wednesday - Workout B
Squats - 3x5
Standing Press - 3x5
Pull from floor (rows 3x5 or cleans 5x3)
Pullups/chins - 2 x 8-15 (3 sets if you do the cleans)
Abs

Friday - Workout A
Squats - 3x5
Bench - 3x5
Deadlift - 1x5
Dips - 2 x 8-15
Curls - 2 x 8-12
TriEx - 2 x 8-12

Once again, you MUST be able to add weight to the bar on your main exercises. If you add the exercises and you aren’t able to recover, or you aren’t adding weight to the bar on your main exercises, then this is not the answer.
/quote

That’s the program. Stick to it, and DO NOT add more to it. Less is more for you at this point. If you want muscle, then you need to focus on progression, not doing Brad Pitt’s supposed tricep workout.

This is a good article that addresses Brad’s physique. I find it entertaining.

Snip

The Fight Club Physique. Brad Pitt weighs 150-160lbs at 6�?� in Fight Club, which makes him a skinny guy. I�??m 155lbs at 5�?�8 and I�??m considered a light weight. At 6�?� you should weigh at least 185lbs.

Brad Pitt lacks leg, traps, back & chest development. His arms & shoulders are disproportionate compared with his forearms & chest. Think away his arms & shoulders, and Pitt doesn�??t even look like he workouts.

The Fight Club Workout. You have different genetics than Brad Pitt. Different muscle shapes, body type, length of bones, etc. Even if you do the same sets, reps, exercises & diet as Brad Pitt, you�??d still not have his body.

Big shoulders give an impression of size: they widen your torso. Pitt focused on shoulders & arms. No Squats, no Deadlifts, no legs. Only high rep isolation exercises, building a disproportionate physique.

Self-acceptance. Brad Pitt�??s personality in Fight Club is what make people want to build the same physique. Ironically Fight Club is about not trying to be what movies, television & ads sell you.

Build your own body. Make people want to be like you, rather than you wanting to be other people. If you want to impress the ladies, do it by being comfortable with who you are. People don�??t like copycats. They like what�??s scarce.

OP - You have received a wealth of advice. Several people have mentioned this but I want to make it perfectly clear. You are very thin and the only way you will gain muscle is if you gain weight. You have to make the scale move at least 1 to 3 pounds per month (more if you can and not get too fat). You need to eat more until this happens.

Your program doesn’t have to be complicated and you don’t need many exercises. You need to progressively lift heavier weighs and eat enough. When you can squat a weight with good form deep 5 times for 4 or 5 sets and it wipes you out, you will understand intensity. But first you have to learn good form and make some basic progress.

[quote]beibitoi wrote:
darwin420 wrote:
Follow the Starting Strength routine as outlined,

what about my abs and cardio? when should i work it out?

lol. I’m now confused… the other guy said, i can add whatever exercise I want after the rippetoe…

thanks guys… I’ll have a break tomorrow, and do the workout B on the next day. For now, I’ll just read some more about the rippetoe. but, if you do the rippetoe, how long should you be doing the entire program, or how long do you stay in the gym? and how many months do i need to do this rippetoe? and what about the warm ups?

[/quote]

No I did NOT. I said you could add AN exercise for your abs or triceps/biceps. As in 1. As an afterthought to your Rippetoe program. I did not say you could add an entire workout to the program. Cardio should go after weight training or on rest days. But I would not do a whole lot if your goal is size gain. Maybe 2 days a week.

As many people have already said, the key is pushing the intensity as high as possible with good form. You said yourself you can’t believe you used 80 lbs for the bench—Your previous working weight was a mere 60 lbs. That means you were seriously sandbagging your intensity. I had a guy I’m training do the same thing with dumbbell rows. I told him to get something he could do for 6 reps. He grabbed he 35 lb dumbbells. I told him to put it back and get the 75 lb dumbbells. He looked at me like I was crazy. Then he put 75 lb rows up for 8 reps. Lesson in intensity. Never do less than you’re capable of.

hi… thanks for the advice and information you gave… I will now continue my rippetoe program. I feel some pain on my legs now, due to the squats I did last monday… thanks again for your advice. I’ll be doing the Workout B later…

[quote]beibitoi wrote:
hi… thanks for the advice and information you gave… I will now continue my rippetoe program. I feel some pain on my legs now, due to the squats I did last monday… thanks again for your advice. I’ll be doing the Workout B later… [/quote]

how low are you squatting?

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
beibitoi wrote:
hi… thanks for the advice and information you gave… I will now continue my rippetoe program. I feel some pain on my legs now, due to the squats I did last monday… thanks again for your advice. I’ll be doing the Workout B later…

how low are you squatting?[/quote]

uhm… i don’t know exactly… with my knees slightly bent, I just make sure that my thighs are parallel to the floor…

I will just follow what the guy did in this site…

www.gyminee.com/workouts/1887-Rippetoe-A

www.gyminee.com/workouts/1888-Rippetoe-B

thanks again…

does he really NEED to isolate the abs if he is doing something like riptoes?

I did the stronglifts 5x5 which is the same simple concept but its 5x5 not 3x5

I know when I did squats my abs were also tight and got worked
same goes for the standing overheads I did
I think you do not need to do extra ab work.abs show when you lose body fat and not so much with how big they are

and yes I blasted away with those fery few exersizes and was done in 45 mins and felt so beat up after.

wow for a whole month!? give it time. Eat right and the gains will come. like my girlfriend. Well, thats different.

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
if you want brad pitts body just run 3 miles a day, do 300 crunches and smoke cigarettes. [/quote]

Yes, suh! Sounds like a plan. Sounds like a fucking easy plan at that.

[quote]beibitoi wrote:
I will just follow what the guy did in this site…

www.gyminee.com/workouts/1887-Rippetoe-A

www.gyminee.com/workouts/1888-Rippetoe-B

thanks again…[/quote]

Those technique descriptions on that website are horrible. Read that bodybuilding.com link again and again. Better yet, buy the actual book.

Follow the workout as written and keep adding weight - you will learn how to lift with intensity at some point.

[quote]nichaaron wrote:
does he really NEED to isolate the abs if he is doing something like riptoes?

[/quote]

Probably not. But a little ab work never hurt anyone, and if it’s something you want to do, it’ll probably help some. Anyway the point was that they’re small additions to the workout, not another workout in themselves.

[quote]cynical kane wrote:
Strength training is like everything else.

The way to get stronger is to “practice being strong”. You do that by doing the basic motions your body was designed to do, with weights as heavy as you can. Once you got this down then you can start changing things up when you understand how your body responds to stress, its strengths, and its weaknesses.

Until then forget the fancy shit and just practice being strong.

P.S. 60x12 on the bench is a joke. You’re clearly not pushing yourself. Maybe you need a gym buddy who knows his stuff, because you seem prone to ignoring other people’s good advice and instead doing stupid crap with useless amounts of weight.

Finally, don’t hurt yourself.[/quote]

thanks for the advice. what’s that 60x12? what i said is i did 60 lbs for 12 reps during my previous program. that’s what i did long before i started this thread. when i did the rippetoe’s i used 80lbs., for 3 sets, 5 reps.