You cannot have total T of 6000 with E2 of 40 without using an AI.
@dextermorgan youāre a doc?
@dbossa My tinder gynecologist practice is thriving but no Iām not a doc. The doc Iām quoting is @physiolojik who practiced under and is a fan of many of the same docs you like.
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This could end very very badly 
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Aaaahhhhhh!!! Love the ātinder gynecologist practiceā lol!
Physiolojik knows Ericā¦ but insists on being anonymous. Pity.
Finished it. Good read.
Maybe you could interview him with one of those shadow screens that only shows the outline of his face with voice masking software. The AI resistance must stay anonymous!
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My bad for thinking this would have led to a constructive discussion.
Thank God youāre not a doctor, I donāt know the damage you would have been doing.
You think one size fits all, put everyone on daily injections and voilĆ , problems solved.
Funny thing, this is something I disagree with Systemlord and heās a great advocate of daily injections. At least you guys agree on something.
Physiolojic, that many here vouched for, was for a bi-weekly protocol, sometimes even with staggered injections, while you keep saying the problems are due to hormonal fluctuations. Imagine how much fluctuation you would have with that protocol.
Who should I listen to then?
My worst protocol has been with daily injections of T enanthate.
Also, normal men have T fluctuations within the day and between days, depending on how they sleep and what they eat.
Iāve been asking you to answers my question because youāre the one who wants to decide who can say what on a forum and who believes that your protocol would work for everyone. Iām saying to be way more prudent, TRT is a new practice, we are lacking data and most of all long term studies, that you canāt produce, because they donāt exist.
If your arguments regarding estradiol are comparing men to women, well, we will nevwr go along. You should read about something called gender transition and you will find your answer there.
Anyway:
1- Could it be the so called honeymoon period? I felt great the first 2 weeks and I thought everything was sorted out.
Then symptoms kicked in.
Just 2 papers on the role of hyperprolactinemia that gets stimulated by E2 rising after TRT. There are several like that.
I have the issue myself, even in absence of pituitary tumor. My prolactin has reached almost 60 in some blood tests. It was 18 pre TRT.
As you can see, your one size fits all doesnāt make sense.
Unless youāre telling me high prolactin isnāt an issue or that you should introduced cabergoline in the mix.
3- Never said that. 1100 is a number that has been measured in healthy men, even if we.should know their actual free T levels.
There are guys on TRT running on 1800-2000 at through, even on this forum. And that hasnāt been seen in any paper.
4- We agree on this.
And no, Iām not chasing numbers. The one who said canāt go lower 1100 of total T isnāt me.
Read the link a few posts up. Itās good
Iāve read it already months ago.
Refresh my memory.
This is what his lab test is showing and I know him for being his patient for a brief period.
So I think I know his view on E2 management.
Then you know that if you truly are having issues with estrogen itās because your liver isnāt functioning efficiently. If your liver is having issues then you should address your liver.
Well, I know that very well, because Iāve been advised by him on taking TUDCA to help flush E2.
He never told me to let E2 rise wildly.
The point is that someone is saying itās not possible to have 6000 T with an E2 of 40, ignoring what nandrolone is capable of doing and he role of genetic in the whole mix.
Ah no wait, daily injections will fix all.
@appassionato I didnāt say it is a one size fits all. I get it, you skim through what I write without actually reading.
There are some guys that do great with twice weekly injections. Dr Jordan Grant in our FB is one of them. Heās never seen a need to do more because he has zero issues. There are others that are way more sensitive to hormone fluctuations. If they are, moving to daily provides significant benefits. This is 100% demonstrable.
How much were you injecting daily out of curiosity? Is it possible you were taking too much or too little? Probably.
Natural guys have fluctuations, yes, but nowhere near the fluctuations from twice weekly shots of an exogenous source.
Iām completely aware of gender transition. If a woman is changing to be a man, they add testosterone. If a man is changing to a woman, they deprive him of testosterone and increase estrogen. The testosterone is the key here, not the estrogen.
Honeymoon period is exogenous T added to natural production. Once natural production has tanked, if exogenous T isnāt sufficient they will have issues.
My prolactin has also been high pre-trt and post-trt. With my optimized free T, this elevated prolactin causes me zero issues. I discussed this in depth with Dr Serrano and he would not use caber unless prolactin gets WAY higher than what you are describing. Not my opinion, straight from the horseās mouth.
Tell me something: Did I sufficiently answer all your of questions? Just reply yes or no.
By the way, are you stating that there is a difference between the cardiovascular systems of men and women? Skeletons? Brain function? Funny, Iām under the impression that they are quite similar.
E2 rising widely is irrelevant. If you have a liver that isnāt functioning properly then you will have issues with lots of stuff and need to address your liver. With a properly functioning liver you donāt have to do shit.
He was around 8-10% body fat with an extremely well functioning liver so he processes estrogen metabolites at a much higher rate.
By the way guys, do any of you realize that E2 is a paracrine hormone? It has varying levels in different parts of the body. If you lower it you have no idea where it will get lowered in the body.
Here is a great talk that I had with Dr. Jordan Grant, a prominent urologist in Texas doing quite a bit of TRT with his patients. Iāve queued it up to the relevant part:
This is the kind of statements I have issues to deal with.
I added TUDCA to the mix, liver working perfectly, 12% bf and 200 pounds by 5ā9". Lifting heavy at the gym since 16 years, clean diet, no alcohol etc etc.
Yet no protocol has been helping, and no TRT doctor has been able to help.
What was doing the trick in his case was nandrolone, there is plenty of literature about it, not just a good liver and warm lemon water.
You guys get really stuck with idols, thinking they will solve every condition.
Before it was KSMAN, then physiolojic, God knows the next one.
Iāll stop writing here until this new E2 thing will be a memory, like what happened with E2 must be 23.
@dbossa thanks, I will have a look. Same thing could apply to T and its effect on different tissues in the body.
FYI, Iāve tried both 10mg and 7.5mg of daily injections of T enanthate. I got horrible anxiety and the highest E2 number on a T solo protocol.
Anyway, the topic was about him trying to get his symptoms figured out, not me.
I didnāt want to hijack the thread.
I think weāve gone way past the point of no return with hijacking the thread lol!
Iām curious though, what is your current protocol that you feel is working for you?
If I took 7.5-10mg a day I would feel like absolute garbage, that much is certain.
We can discuss this privately in PM.
Where can I reach you at?