NLRB Favors Football Players

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
How people can call a market with tons of restrictions on the people involved in it a free market is beyond me. Restrictions by design make it NOT a free market.
[/quote]

There are restrictions in a lot of “free” markets.

If I wanted to open an investment firm, I couldn’t. I lack the licenses. Even if I want to work for an investment firm I still need the licenses. I guess I can make coffee for a while.

In every other market we just call it “paying our dues”
[/quote]

Nothing is stopping you from getting the licenses. The NCAA is stopping kids from signing their own name for money at the same time as profiting massively off endorsement deals related to those same kids.

Once you get your license and while you are getting your license you are free to make money how you see fit.

It’s a poor analogy my friend. No investment firm is keeping you from making money on the side while profiting massively off your labor.

142

[quote]H factor wrote:
How people can call a market with tons of restrictions on the people involved in it a free market is beyond me. Restrictions by design make it NOT a free market.
[/quote]

That may be so, but you still freely and voluntarily enter into the agreement BEFORE you are part of the NCAA. It is a freely made decision, knowing in advance what most of those regulations are going to be, that people choose to make anyway.

You brought up the age restriction before. If you want to talk age restriction you can blame that on the NFL/NBA, as that is their restriction not the NCAAs, and therefore does not apply to criticisms of the NCAA, myriad though other criticisms may be.

143

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
How people can call a market with tons of restrictions on the people involved in it a free market is beyond me. Restrictions by design make it NOT a free market.
[/quote]

That may be so, but you still freely and voluntarily enter into the agreement BEFORE you are part of the NCAA. It is a freely made decision, knowing in advance what most of those regulations are going to be, that people choose to make anyway.

You brought up the age restriction before. If you want to talk age restriction you can blame that on the NFL/NBA, as that is their restriction not the NCAAs, and therefore does not apply to criticisms of the NCAA, myriad though other criticisms may be.[/quote]

Yes and people are trying to change those regulations. That is the point of the thread. Like I said there is a reason why these things are being successful in court. It doesn’t make sense.

The NFL/NBA works in conjunction with the NCAA. March Madness has seen a huge uptick in popularity since they got rid of the jumping straight from high school rule. This has worked out good for the NBA (free to them training) and good for the NCAA (big money off elite athletes who won’t be there long). It’s also good for the universities (gigantic profits off superstar athletes in a revolving door industry).

The blame goes a long ways around and these institutions don’t need defended because they are crooked as hell. You’re living in the past if you think student athlete is something that the NCAA actually cares about. They love to say that because it is how they get away with so many things. We just care about the kids claims the institution that owns all their naming rights and uses it to colossally profit.

144

You know what you’re getting into is a poor argument when the discussion is whether or not the status quo should change.

145

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
How people can call a market with tons of restrictions on the people involved in it a free market is beyond me. Restrictions by design make it NOT a free market.
[/quote]

There are restrictions in a lot of “free” markets.

If I wanted to open an investment firm, I couldn’t. I lack the licenses. Even if I want to work for an investment firm I still need the licenses. I guess I can make coffee for a while.

In every other market we just call it “paying our dues”
[/quote]

Nothing is stopping you from getting the licenses. The NCAA is stopping kids from signing their own name for money at the same time as profiting massively off endorsement deals related to those same kids.

Once you get your license and while you are getting your license you are free to make money how you see fit.

It’s a poor analogy my friend. No investment firm is keeping you from making money on the side while profiting massively off your labor. [/quote]

There are things stopping me from getting licensed though. Let’s say I want to be a CPA, I have to work for a licensed CPA for 2,000 hours to become licensed (in MD). What if I can’t find a job working for a CPA? I can’t get a license no matter how awesome a CPA I am.

H, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I already addressed my stance on making money on the side, multiple times.

146

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
How people can call a market with tons of restrictions on the people involved in it a free market is beyond me. Restrictions by design make it NOT a free market.
[/quote]

There are restrictions in a lot of “free” markets.

If I wanted to open an investment firm, I couldn’t. I lack the licenses. Even if I want to work for an investment firm I still need the licenses. I guess I can make coffee for a while.

In every other market we just call it “paying our dues”
[/quote]

Nothing is stopping you from getting the licenses. The NCAA is stopping kids from signing their own name for money at the same time as profiting massively off endorsement deals related to those same kids.

Once you get your license and while you are getting your license you are free to make money how you see fit.

It’s a poor analogy my friend. No investment firm is keeping you from making money on the side while profiting massively off your labor. [/quote]

There are things stopping me from getting licensed though. Let’s say I want to be a CPA, I have to work for a licensed CPA for 2,000 hours to become licensed (in MD). What if I can’t find a job working for a CPA? I can’t get a license no matter how awesome a CPA I am.

H, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I already addressed my stance on making money on the side, multiple times. [/quote]

It still is apples to oranges. You can’t get a job working for a CPA IS the free market at work. Maybe you can’t get yourself hired. A college quarterback not getting drafted is the same idea.

What’s not free is the restrictions placed by the NCAA on “student athletes” (saying that with a straight face is difficult) in order to make profit on them while limiting their freedom to profit on their own.

All I’m saying is it is time to rethink the way we approach college athletics as the status quo is largely bullshit for some student athletes and filled with hypocrisies on numerous things regarding them. The NCAA and major colleges will fight all changes not because they care about the game, but because they care about the money. They don’t want any “greedy” athlete who may want some health insurance taking away money from them.

147

[quote]H factor wrote:
I don’t care what you call it just don’t call it a free market. [/quote]

Name 1 market free of any restrictions please?

[quote]
An athlete is not free to do so many things and the NCAA IS free to profit off their likeness to the tune of millions of dollars. [/quote]

An athlete can do a thousand other things. Playing college sports is a choice.

Already addressed making money on the side or from likeness. Should South Park or Oblivion have to pay Al Gore for using his likeness in the South Park video game?

Then exploitation and control are hallmarks of capitalism then.

Probably.

Pretty much impossible.

Interference by a gov or other authority exists in all markets. Unless you can think of one. I can’t

They are not controlled. No one is required to go to college.

Pretty much everywhere.

It is their JOB. College is not the athletes JOB. and actors still get exploited. How much money did McCully Culken (spelled that way wrong I’m sure) get for the Home Alone movies? Didn’t his “guardians” screw it away?

[quote]
We don’t do it with Olympic athletes. [/quote]
Again, it is their JOB.

[quote]
We don’t do it with baseball players who get drafted and go play double A ball. [/quote]

It is their JOB.

Because collegiate athletics is not the students JOB.

148

On one hand you say my inability to become a licensed CPA due to a restriction (by the MD board of accountancy) is free market, but on the other hand you say a football player not being allowed to play in the NFL due to an age restriction (By the NFL) is not free market.

How is that consistent at all?

149

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
How people can call a market with tons of restrictions on the people involved in it a free market is beyond me. Restrictions by design make it NOT a free market.
[/quote]

There are restrictions in a lot of “free” markets.

If I wanted to open an investment firm, I couldn’t. I lack the licenses. Even if I want to work for an investment firm I still need the licenses. I guess I can make coffee for a while.

In every other market we just call it “paying our dues”
[/quote]

Nothing is stopping you from getting the licenses. The NCAA is stopping kids from signing their own name for money at the same time as profiting massively off endorsement deals related to those same kids.

Once you get your license and while you are getting your license you are free to make money how you see fit.

It’s a poor analogy my friend. No investment firm is keeping you from making money on the side while profiting massively off your labor. [/quote]

There are things stopping me from getting licensed though. Let’s say I want to be a CPA, I have to work for a licensed CPA for 2,000 hours to become licensed (in MD). What if I can’t find a job working for a CPA? I can’t get a license no matter how awesome a CPA I am.

H, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. I already addressed my stance on making money on the side, multiple times. [/quote]

It still is apples to oranges. You can’t get a job working for a CPA IS the free market at work. Maybe you can’t get yourself hired. A college quarterback not getting drafted is the same idea.

What’s not free is the restrictions placed by the NCAA on “student athletes” (saying that with a straight face is difficult) in order to make profit on them while limiting their freedom to profit on their own.

All I’m saying is it is time to rethink the way we approach college athletics as the status quo is largely bullshit for some student athletes and filled with hypocrisies on numerous things regarding them. The NCAA and major colleges will fight all changes not because they care about the game, but because they care about the money. They don’t want any “greedy” athlete who may want some health insurance taking away money from them. [/quote]

Okay.

Eliminate college athletics all together. Instead have Semi-pro teams “associated” with a college. Pay the athletes.

150

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I don’t care what you call it just don’t call it a free market. [/quote]

Name 1 market free of any restrictions please?

[quote]
An athlete is not free to do so many things and the NCAA IS free to profit off their likeness to the tune of millions of dollars. [/quote]

An athlete can do a thousand other things. Playing college sports is a choice.

Already addressed making money on the side or from likeness. Should South Park or Oblivion have to pay Al Gore for using his likeness in the South Park video game?

Then exploitation and control are hallmarks of capitalism then.

Probably.

Pretty much impossible.

Interference by a gov or other authority exists in all markets. Unless you can think of one. I can’t

They are not controlled. No one is required to go to college.

Pretty much everywhere.

It is their JOB. College is not the athletes JOB. and actors still get exploited. How much money did McCully Culken (spelled that way wrong I’m sure) get for the Home Alone movies? Didn’t his “guardians” screw it away?

[quote]
We don’t do it with Olympic athletes. [/quote]
Again, it is their JOB.

[quote]
We don’t do it with baseball players who get drafted and go play double A ball. [/quote]

It is their JOB.

Because collegiate athletics is not the students JOB. [/quote]

Paying the healthcare fine is a choice. You could have got insurance. No one is forcing you to get insurance, you could pay the fine. Stop complaining. We don’t need to spend money on benefits for veterans. No one recently is forced to join the army, stop complaining. Don’t like your lack of supplies? Quit your bitching, you signed up.

So that’s how you want to let them get away with it? By calling it something else. How was college basketball NOT Andrew Wiggins job? What was he brought to KU for? To play college basketball. Was it known he wouldn’t graduate? Almost assuredly. And yet they STILL gave him a scholarship KNOWING he wouldn’t graduate and would only be there for one year. Now why is that? Because KU basketball is a huge business and KU/NCAA made a ton off that one year that Andrew Wiggins was a college athlete.

No big deal because that isn’t his job? You’re going to pretend school was his job? You’re going to pretend KU gave him all that stuff for something other than basketball?

151

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Okay.

Eliminate college athletics all together. Instead have Semi-pro teams “associated” with a college. Pay the athletes. [/quote]

We already have semi-pro teams filled with people who are in college largely to play a game. Some of them will get degrees, many of them will not. The system as it is works really well for some people. Just not for college athletes. We shouldn’t change it though because “school” is their job? If you buy school is their job I have some ocean front property next door to me in Kansas I’d like to sell you my friend.

152

[quote]H factor wrote:
Paying the healthcare fine is a choice.[/quote]
From a certain perspective, sure it is.

Well, if the site worked.

True.

[quote]
Stop complaining. [/quote]
Not sure where I was complaining?

[quote]
We don’t need to spend money on benefits for veterans. [/quote]
No we don’t, except where the U.S. government is contractually obligated to.

[quote]
No one recently is forced to join the army, stop complaining. [/quote]
No they weren’t.

[quote]
Don’t like your lack of supplies? Quit your bitching, you signed up.[/quote]
Kinda need supplies to do your job.

[quote]
So that’s how you want to let them get away with it? By calling it something else. How was college basketball NOT Andrew Wiggins job? [/quote]

Because math class, or whatever, was his “job” while enrolled at KU. I don’t really care if was using KU to catapult him to the NBA or not.

[quote]
What was he brought to KU for? [/quote]

No one “brought him” to KU. He was offered a scholarship in exchange to play ball, which he accepted.

[quote]
To play college basketball. Was it known he wouldn’t graduate? Almost assuredly.[/quote]
So what?

And what did Wiggins get out of it? A highlight reel for the NBA draft.

[quote]
No big deal because that isn’t his job? [/quote]

Nope, he’s about to get a job.

You’re going to pretend these star athletes are being exploited because they don’t get paid? They do get paid, on draft day. Wiggins will get plenty for showing off his skills at KU.

153

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Okay.

Eliminate college athletics all together. Instead have Semi-pro teams “associated” with a college. Pay the athletes. [/quote]

We already have semi-pro teams filled with people who are in college largely to play a game. Some of them will get degrees, many of them will not. The system as it is works really well for some people. Just not for college athletes. We shouldn’t change it though because “school” is their job? If you buy school is their job I have some ocean front property next door to me in Kansas I’d like to sell you my friend. [/quote]
I donno man, semi-pro athletes get paid :wink:

82% of student athletes graduated based of the last study done. http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/10/25/2836451/ncaa-graduation-rates-hit-record-high-important-questions-remain/

154

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Okay.

Eliminate college athletics all together. Instead have Semi-pro teams “associated” with a college. Pay the athletes. [/quote]

We already have semi-pro teams filled with people who are in college largely to play a game. Some of them will get degrees, many of them will not. The system as it is works really well for some people. Just not for college athletes. We shouldn’t change it though because “school” is their job? If you buy school is their job I have some ocean front property next door to me in Kansas I’d like to sell you my friend. [/quote]
I donno man, semi-pro athletes get paid :wink:

82% of student athletes graduated based of the last study done. http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/10/25/2836451/ncaa-graduation-rates-hit-record-high-important-questions-remain/

[/quote]
I didn’t click the link but are they adding in all student athletes from all colleges and universities? I’m sure an Ivy League college is graduating athletes at a high rate but what about the schools that are sports powerhouses?

155

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Okay.

Eliminate college athletics all together. Instead have Semi-pro teams “associated” with a college. Pay the athletes. [/quote]

We already have semi-pro teams filled with people who are in college largely to play a game. Some of them will get degrees, many of them will not. The system as it is works really well for some people. Just not for college athletes. We shouldn’t change it though because “school” is their job? If you buy school is their job I have some ocean front property next door to me in Kansas I’d like to sell you my friend. [/quote]
I donno man, semi-pro athletes get paid :wink:

82% of student athletes graduated based of the last study done. http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/10/25/2836451/ncaa-graduation-rates-hit-record-high-important-questions-remain/

[/quote]
I didn’t click the link but are they adding in all student athletes from all colleges and universities? I’m sure an Ivy League college is graduating athletes at a high rate but what about the schools that are sports powerhouses? [/quote]

It’s D1 Athletes. Not sure why that matters though, players from Harvard go pro too.

156

Of the 10 teams that reached the BCS National Championship and the men’s and women’s Final Four, only one finished with a graduation rate lower than 70 percent in the NCAA’s latest report, with Notre Dame producing better academic marks than national champion Alabama and Michigan coming in slightly ahead of national champion Louisville.

157

Oh, we better fight the NBA b/c they have salary caps!! B/c NBA has salary caps, it’s no longer a free market.

158

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9873192/notre-dame-comes-winner-graduation-rates[/quote]

159

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

You’re going to pretend these star athletes are being exploited because they don’t get paid? They do get paid, on draft day. Wiggins will get plenty for showing off his skills at KU. [/quote]

What do the players who were brought in to play a game and weren’t very good at school to begin with that don’t graduate get? Unemployment? Medical bills perhaps? Lifetime of pain?

It’s easy to focus on the guys who will make millions, but what about the guys who won’t? The guys brought to school for ONE reason…to play sports. You think Alabama gives a fuck about your studies as long as you’re eligible?

160

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Oh, we better fight the NBA b/c they have salary caps!! B/c NBA has salary caps, it’s no longer a free market.[/quote]

What is on the back of Lebron James jersey?

It’s his last name right? Wonder why he wouldn’t have had that had he gone to college?

Oh…because his job would have been student and basketball is just some silly game. Some silly game that coaches, athletic directors, bars, and a myriad of other people make a ton of money off of while the kids who play the game can’t even get a dime from their fucking jersey sales.