I was a student-althlete in college in a non-revenue-genrating sport (swimming and diving), and the NCAA made me choose between competing in college and earning a little extra spending money in the off season performing–not competing, performing–in a professional high-diving show. Who the fuck is the NCAA to tell me what I can and can’t do to earn money legally on my own time?
College football makes $Billions–with a B–$Billions off the backs of student athletes and then brands them cheaters and low-lifes if they put anything in their own pocket or even dare to suggest there is something unfair about this. What a racket. I hope the players break them.
I’m not saying we need to give every kid tons of money, but many of those regulations don’t make sense. And how can so many “anti-government” people in here be so against more market freedom?
[/quote]
Isn’t your argument that it isn’t fair? Well how is this fair?[/quote]
How is what fair? It isn’t fair that’s the point. Some people think it is time to make some common sense changes to these regulations. [/quote]
[quote]H factor wrote:
I’m not saying we need to give every kid tons of money [/quote]
How is it fair that only some athlete will get paid, but others won’t?
[quote]H factor wrote:
Who came out better? Johnny Manziel or Texas A&M? It’s that simple.
[/quote]
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
H I get what you are saying, but that is how it works universally.
If I work in personal financial planning and I bring a $50MM investment client through the door, who makes at more, me or the company? [/quote]
[quote]H factor wrote:
You can negotiate for a higher salary. You can go someplace else. You are paid highly off your value. [/quote]
Not necessarily, but that is not the point. Point is, the company will still benefit more from what I brought to the table, period.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Johnny Manziel was not paid off his value. He couldn’t go to the NFL until this year.
[/quote]
He could of played arena football or in Europe. Or he could start his own league.
[quote]H factor wrote:
LUCKY for him he will be drafted. Some people’s highest value on their stuff and name is while in college. If you’re a hot commodity like a celebrity right now you can be paid for autographs, paid for movies, paid for being in a video game like Shaq was. Not good enough for a 20 year old though? [/quote]
They get paid, it’s called room and board, which at some schools can be over $100K.
[quote]H factor wrote:
I never said a college kid needs to make what a college coach does. [/quote]
Well why not? The college coach’s are just exploiting the talent of the players right? What’s fair about them making more than the players?
[quote]H factor wrote:
Just that a lot of people in this market are making out like bandits on the backs of kids.[/quote]
The kids make out too. They get a free education, meals, a place to live, etc…
[quote]H factor wrote:
And we can’t have a discussion on making some changes to that? Because of the girl scouts or something? [/quote]
I think the idea of paying a kid on his ability to play is dangerous territory. Sure, Manziel plays well, but what about the offensive line that blocks for him ? Can I claim that I, as an offensive lineman, should make bank because I protect Manziel who can they run and throw his ass off ?
What about a defensive lineman who is a sack master, yet relies on his cornerbacks and safeties to play tight coverage which allows him time to get to the quarterback ?
I think this is so murky, you are going to drive a team apart because one player is making more (or less) than another.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I just don’t get how getting a $100K education for free = “getting fucked in the ass for a while now”? [/quote]
[quote]H factor wrote:
It’s illegal for most people to make money off your likeness. If I use you in a video game or a jersey with your name on it you get a cut. [/quote]
I know you’re a South Park fan, how do they get away with it?
You convinced me, no more college sports video games. That’s 1 problem solved.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Not “student athletes” though. They don’t have those kind of rights. They sell some of their stuff while in college while the value is high and we take away that education. [/quote]
They don’t get their education taken away. They lose their scholarship for violating the terms of the contract they signed. There are consequences to violating a contract, universally.
You can get a music scholarship to KU right now AND play in the band. A full ride. You can also play in a piano bar and make money OFF YOUR TALENTS.
You can get a football scholarship to Alabama right now. A full ride. You can’t sign a piece of paper for someone who would pay you 5,000. You can’t get a cut of the sales of YOUR jersey.
You can’t sign your jersey for someone who will pay you 10,000 dollars for it. You have to work full time by training, practicing, etc. So you can’t get a job like other college kids can. You have an absolute ton of value in your talents but can’t make any money off of them unless you are lucky enough to go pro.
Sound like a good system? It’s REALLY good for Alabama football.
I think the idea of paying a kid on his ability to play is dangerous territory. Sure, Manziel plays well, but what about the offensive line that blocks for him ? Can I claim that I, as an offensive lineman, should make bank because I protect Manziel who can they run and throw his ass off ?
What about a defensive lineman who is a sack master, yet relies on his cornerbacks and safeties to play tight coverage which allows him time to get to the quarterback ?
I think this is so murky, you are going to drive a team apart because one player is making more (or less) than another.
[/quote]
Instead of paying him directly why not loosen the restrictions on what he can do to make money off himself?
THAT’S the unfair part, not that the university isn’t paying him.
I think the idea of paying a kid on his ability to play is dangerous territory. Sure, Manziel plays well, but what about the offensive line that blocks for him ? Can I claim that I, as an offensive lineman, should make bank because I protect Manziel who can they run and throw his ass off ?
What about a defensive lineman who is a sack master, yet relies on his cornerbacks and safeties to play tight coverage which allows him time to get to the quarterback ?
I think this is so murky, you are going to drive a team apart because one player is making more (or less) than another.
[/quote]
I competed in college waterskiing, which opted out of the NCAA, and is governed by the NCWSA. There is no pro-am distinction under the NCWSA; some schools were scholarship schools and some weren’t; some schools had actual pros on their team and some didn’t. If you were good enough, you could get paid by sponsors to attend events, and there wasn’t any restrictions on what a school could or couldn’t pay you or pay for that I am aware of. I was good, but never pro good, but I thought it was bad ass to be sitting on the doc with the pros and competing in the same event. And the sky didn’t fall because some of the athletes were also making money.
Further, parent’s insurance covers kids until they are something like 25 now. And aren’t all adults required to carry insurance now? Suppose it’s no longer an issue. [/quote]
I’m still with you on most everything else here but this is incorrect. The insurance for medical operations is university insurance if they are injured in the program. If they are injured doing something like pick-up basketball on their own time that’s parental insurance.
University pays for medicals, surgeries, and physical therapy for athletes that are injured…unless they revoke their scholarship. Revoking a scholarship for an injured player is fucking bullshit and I’ve known a couple people personally that it happened to, (I was dating one of the girls). Universities should not be allowed to do that in any way.
However, the flip side is your parents insurance or your insurance doesn’t get billed when you blow an ACL in a university activity. I’ve personally known people like this as well–they got surgery, meds, therapy, everything for free because they’re in a university activity. That’s as it should be.
The only thing that should be debated on this particular point is whether or not they should have some benefits after they leave the college for therapy/ongoing medical stuff or not. I lean towards some sort of “yes they should”, particularly for career enders.
I was a student-althlete in college in a non-revenue-genrating sport (swimming and diving), and the NCAA made me choose between competing in college and earning a little extra spending money in the off season performing–not competing, performing–in a professional high-diving show. Who the fuck is the NCAA to tell me what I can and can’t do to earn money legally on my own time?
College football makes $Billions–with a B–$Billions off the backs of student athletes and then brands them cheaters and low-lifes if they put anything in their own pocket or even dare to suggest there is something unfair about this. What a racket. I hope the players break them.
Fuck the NCAA.[/quote]
I’m with you on this 120% too, as well as the NCAA being shitty as hell, but putting the definitional structure of “employer/employee relationship” onto a student-athlete is not the way to go. Unintended consequences galore, and I’m not talking about money the university is making…I’m talking the effect on university time as an education, not that it isn’t already partly a sham through special treatment and all.
You should be able to make money outside your time, but you should not be considered an employee if you’re on scholarship. You are still supposed to be a student getting an education
You can get a music scholarship to KU right now AND play in the band. A full ride. You can also play in a piano bar and make money OFF YOUR TALENTS. [/quote]
I already said I think it’s asinine that student athletes can’t get jobs. So if a part-time football league is create, which can earn these athletes money I’m fine with that.
[quote]
You can get a football scholarship to Alabama right now. A full ride. You can’t sign a piece of paper for someone who would pay you 5,000. You can’t get a cut of the sales of YOUR jersey. [/quote]
And I’d say “your cut” is tuition and board.
[quote]
You can’t sign your jersey for someone who will pay you 10,000 dollars for it. You have to work full time by training, practicing, etc. [/quote]
This is not even close to a full time job. Like I said I have no problem with them working. In fact I think it’s stupid they can’t.
I think getting a free education, the rest of us would have to pay for and likely be in debt for, is a pretty sweet system for someone with all that talent.
I was a student-althlete in college in a non-revenue-genrating sport (swimming and diving), and the NCAA made me choose between competing in college and earning a little extra spending money in the off season performing–not competing, performing–in a professional high-diving show. Who the fuck is the NCAA to tell me what I can and can’t do to earn money legally on my own time?
College football makes $Billions–with a B–$Billions off the backs of student athletes and then brands them cheaters and low-lifes if they put anything in their own pocket or even dare to suggest there is something unfair about this. What a racket. I hope the players break them.
Fuck the NCAA.[/quote]
I’m with you on this 120% too, as well as the NCAA being shitty as hell, but putting the definitional structure of “employer/employee relationship” onto a student-athlete is not the way to go. Unintended consequences galore, and I’m not talking about money the university is making…I’m talking the effect on university time as an education, not that it isn’t already partly a sham through special treatment and all.
You should be able to make money outside your time, but you should not be considered an employee if you’re on scholarship. You are still supposed to be a student getting an education[/quote]
This is what is a joke though. You’re NOT a student getting and education. It’s all a sham.
Andrew Wiggins needed either 9 or 12 hours to be eligible to play basketball at KU. IF he could have gone pro right out of the gate he would have. He had to jump through the hoop though.
And while he was jumping through that hoop KU made a shit ton of money. Sweet for them. Luckily for him he will also make a shit ton of money now that he can be drafted.
He was there for an education about as much as I’m posting right here now for money.
I was a student-althlete in college in a non-revenue-genrating sport (swimming and diving), and the NCAA made me choose between competing in college and earning a little extra spending money in the off season performing–not competing, performing–in a professional high-diving show. Who the fuck is the NCAA to tell me what I can and can’t do to earn money legally on my own time?
College football makes $Billions–with a B–$Billions off the backs of student athletes and then brands them cheaters and low-lifes if they put anything in their own pocket or even dare to suggest there is something unfair about this. What a racket. I hope the players break them.
Fuck the NCAA.[/quote]
I’m with you on this 120% too, as well as the NCAA being shitty as hell, but putting the definitional structure of “employer/employee relationship” onto a student-athlete is not the way to go. Unintended consequences galore, and I’m not talking about money the university is making…I’m talking the effect on university time as an education, not that it isn’t already partly a sham through special treatment and all.
You should be able to make money outside your time, but you should not be considered an employee if you’re on scholarship. You are still supposed to be a student getting an education[/quote]
Your points are absolutely valid, especially about unintended consequences. The NCAA wouldn’t be staring in the face of a union if they didn’t operate like a pack of gangsters, however. I am not a big fan of unions, but if I was going to wish the Teamsters on somebody, its the NCAA. I honestly believe that organization would rather burn down all college athletics rather than cede an ounce of power to the players, which is what they are pushing the players into doing.
You can get a music scholarship to KU right now AND play in the band. A full ride. You can also play in a piano bar and make money OFF YOUR TALENTS. [/quote]
I already said I think it’s asinine that student athletes can’t get jobs. So if a part-time football league is create, which can earn these athletes money I’m fine with that.
[quote]
You can get a football scholarship to Alabama right now. A full ride. You can’t sign a piece of paper for someone who would pay you 5,000. You can’t get a cut of the sales of YOUR jersey. [/quote]
And I’d say “your cut” is tuition and board.
[quote]
You can’t sign your jersey for someone who will pay you 10,000 dollars for it. You have to work full time by training, practicing, etc. [/quote]
This is not even close to a full time job. Like I said I have no problem with them working. In fact I think it’s stupid they can’t.
I think getting a free education, the rest of us would have to pay for and likely be in debt for, is a pretty sweet system for someone with all that talent. [/quote]
Really? A free education?
What if that “free” education costs you millions in potential money you could have earned off your own talents?
Your viable option right now is to attend college, jump through the hoop. Then turn pro.
a 19 year old actor can make millions off their talent. A 19 year old football player can’t. And somehow you’re acting like they are lucky by being controlled in these manners?
Andrew Wiggins could of worked at a grocery store until he was eligible under NBA rules. Instead he chose to take advantage of a free education KU offered him.
Schools do not have to offer athletic scholarships you know.
I was a student-althlete in college in a non-revenue-genrating sport (swimming and diving), and the NCAA made me choose between competing in college and earning a little extra spending money in the off season performing–not competing, performing–in a professional high-diving show. Who the fuck is the NCAA to tell me what I can and can’t do to earn money legally on my own time?
College football makes $Billions–with a B–$Billions off the backs of student athletes and then brands them cheaters and low-lifes if they put anything in their own pocket or even dare to suggest there is something unfair about this. What a racket. I hope the players break them.
Fuck the NCAA.[/quote]
I’m with you on this 120% too, as well as the NCAA being shitty as hell, but putting the definitional structure of “employer/employee relationship” onto a student-athlete is not the way to go. Unintended consequences galore, and I’m not talking about money the university is making…I’m talking the effect on university time as an education, not that it isn’t already partly a sham through special treatment and all.
You should be able to make money outside your time, but you should not be considered an employee if you’re on scholarship. You are still supposed to be a student getting an education[/quote]
Your points are absolutely valid, especially about unintended consequences. The NCAA wouldn’t be staring in the face of a union if they didn’t operate like a pack of gangsters, however. I am not a big fan of unions, but if I was going to wish the Teamsters on somebody, its the NCAA. I honestly believe that organization would rather burn down all college athletics rather than cede an ounce of power to the players, which is what they are pushing the players into doing.
[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more. Not a union fan, but kudos for players finally standing up to the system.
The NCAA could give a fuck less about most of the players. They care about endorsements (Tostitos Fiesta Bowl) TV contracts, etc.
Lots of people making a ton of money, but when the players say can we have some of that everyone goes “we gave you meals!”
You can get a music scholarship to KU right now AND play in the band. A full ride. You can also play in a piano bar and make money OFF YOUR TALENTS. [/quote]
I already said I think it’s asinine that student athletes can’t get jobs. So if a part-time football league is create, which can earn these athletes money I’m fine with that.
[quote]
You can get a football scholarship to Alabama right now. A full ride. You can’t sign a piece of paper for someone who would pay you 5,000. You can’t get a cut of the sales of YOUR jersey. [/quote]
And I’d say “your cut” is tuition and board.
[quote]
You can’t sign your jersey for someone who will pay you 10,000 dollars for it. You have to work full time by training, practicing, etc. [/quote]
This is not even close to a full time job. Like I said I have no problem with them working. In fact I think it’s stupid they can’t.
I think getting a free education, the rest of us would have to pay for and likely be in debt for, is a pretty sweet system for someone with all that talent. [/quote]
Really? A free education?
What if that “free” education costs you millions in potential money you could have earned off your own talents?
Your viable option right now is to attend college, jump through the hoop. Then turn pro.
a 19 year old actor can make millions off their talent. A 19 year old football player can’t. And somehow you’re acting like they are lucky by being controlled in these manners?
Damn, this is a GOOD regulation? [/quote]
It’s not a regulation it’s what the FREE MARKET has decided. Isn’t that what you wanted?
Seriously H all these poor student athletes that would make millions end up making millions.
How’s that commercial go, the vast majority of student athletes major in something other than sports.
If people don’t like the situation they can create a bran new league for athletes 18-20. Why has that not happened?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Andrew Wiggins could of worked at a grocery store until he was eligible under NBA rules. Instead he chose to take advantage of a free education KU offered him.
Schools do not have to offer athletic scholarships you know. [/quote]
KU makes WAY TOO MUCH money off basketball to stop. Wiggins was supposed to work at a grocery store? That’s your answer.
C’mon man. That isn’t even worth talking about.
The scholarships are the sham so they can be underpaid and controlled without everyone being up in arms about it. It’s a good deal for some kids, a horrible deal for others. Sounds like Obamacare. Why complain about that? You don’t have to get the insurance. You can pay the fine.