Sorry to hijack, but I am currently dosing ghrp6 in conjunction with modgrf 1-29 100 mcg of each 2x/d. 2 weeks in I noticed the beginning of PRL gyno… I am now off the peptides entirely because I dont have any caber. My question is if I continue with only modgrf 1-29 will PRL continue to rise? Moreover, how much better is ipamorelin if one is, “PRL-gyno-sensitive” ?
Calories Pre… no arguement. I don’t know how you could? You will use them for fuel in your workout.
Unless you don’t lift very hard.
Calories Post…I don’t know you would not cover both ends of the workout. Many people smarter than I am talk about Cortisol levels rising after 45 or so minutes. Somehow they cause your system to look hard for fuel somewhere…and if Carbs are all burned up, then I’m told your body will break down muscle protein for fuel. At this particular time, how would Carbs not give your body some fuel to burn while it is now trying to shower, walk around, get back to work, much less help synthesize protein into muscle.
Why wouldn’t you cover both ends of the workout?
[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:
Calories Pre… no arguement. I don’t know how you could? You will use them for fuel in your workout.
Unless you don’t lift very hard.
Calories Post…I don’t know you would not cover both ends of the workout. Many people smarter than I am talk about Cortisol levels rising after 45 or so minutes. Somehow they cause your system to look hard for fuel somewhere…and if Carbs are all burned up, then I’m told your body will break down muscle protein for fuel. At this particular time, how would Carbs not give your body some fuel to burn while it is now trying to shower, walk around, get back to work, much less help synthesize protein into muscle.
Why wouldn’t you cover both ends of the workout?[/quote]
Well actually there are benefits to fasted training as well. I have used it before and you would be surprised at how good you feel. Fasted training (in a study against a control group doing normal pre-workout nutrition) showed an increase in GLUT4 (Glucose transporter type 4 is a protein responsible for insulin-regulated glucose transport into the muscle cell) that is why the fasted training group showed better glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. Also, muscle gycogen stores increased and body composition improved for those who did the fasted training.
As far as the carbless post workout goes, I won’t get into too much of the details but working out increases insulin sensitivity but immediately ingesting carbs afterwards can blunt that effect, so the premise is that your body will utilize nutrients more effectively (when it does finally get the carbs) because of the “muscle waiting” as some call it. There is more to it but it is not my protocol and not my place to post much on it.
The moral of the story being…there are many different ways to accomplish the same goal. I think there is a place for everything but you have to find what works best for you. The Indigo product is all about nutrient repartitioning, because so many people don’t handle carbs or insulin well. It’s interesting to read different ways to eat and time your nutrition to help your nutrient repartitioning without buying an expensive supplement.
Again, use what suits you best. Since I have incorporated fasted training, some carbless post workout, some intermittant fasting, I have been more than impressed with the results. There is plenty of research out there to debunk a lot of the stuff that you believe as “hard science”. Check out leangains website for some information, a ton of great stuff on there.
[quote]Pac wrote:
Sorry to hijack, but I am currently dosing ghrp6 in conjunction with modgrf 1-29 100 mcg of each 2x/d. 2 weeks in I noticed the beginning of PRL gyno… I am now off the peptides entirely because I dont have any caber. My question is if I continue with only modgrf 1-29 will PRL continue to rise? Moreover, how much better is ipamorelin if one is, “PRL-gyno-sensitive” ? [/quote]
You may not need caber, try mucuna pruriens for prolactin reduction first.
Hey fd,
You have me ear… Throw me an idea, and I’ll try it. 
The last time I asked someone that, BBB gave me a great one. And you can see from this thread that I do listen pretty well
Seriously, do you have a ritual that is something simple that I could throw into my routine to change it up once in a while? I am a 47 year old Dad, and this is a hobby, so it has to be practical. But I go on son !!!
Thanks
[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:
Hey fd,
You have me ear… Throw me an idea, and I’ll try it. The last time I asked someone that, BBB gave me a great one. And you can see from this thread that I do listen pretty well
Seriously, do you have a ritual that is something simple that I could throw into my routine to change it up once in a while? I am a 47 year old Dad, and this is a hobby, so it has to be practical. But I go on son !!!
Thanks[/quote]
I think that the warrior diet/leangains approach can be useful. They are slightly different but use a lot of the same principles. Leangains follows a 16 day fasting period followed by an 8 hour feeding window. Martin’s site (www.leangains.com) can explain it in much more detail. But when I did my variation of it I wanted to drop some bodyfat so I would fast from morning until 12 or 1…maybe some amino acids in the morning. Then from 1-9 I would have my feeding window, usually the biggest meals coming post workout. Then repeat the fast from 9pm the one night until 1 the next day. You would be surprised how much more alert and focused you feel, mainly due to the body taking advantage of the sympathetic nervous system. He also has some stuff on fasted training, where you ingest 10g bcaas pre-workout (I added aminos during as well) and this was something I was pretty hesitant to try but I do enjoy a fasted workout here and there depending on my goals at the time. I was not nearly as weak or tired as I thought I would be.
The warrior diet follows a 20 hour “undereating” phase and a 4 hour feeding window. So during the under eating I’d have blueberries, nuts, bcaa’s and maybe a scoop or two of zero carb protein dispersed during the day. Then at night it calls for a salad, large amounts of meat, and then carbs and fat. I would have like 100g of protein worth of meat, fruit, sushi, pasta, and then even have some cookies or something after that if I’m still hungry. I really liked this protocol, it let me go to bed really satisfied and still enjoying some “cheat” foods without gaining any fat. I have no problem eating a ton of food in one sitting.
I was scared to try either because they both go against conventional “knowledge” on nutrition. But since adding variations of both and some cpwo I have increased my weight and lowered my bodyfat. I’m not taking any peptides, not that it matters, but just shows that you can have success with it either way. I am eating way more carbs than I ever used to and staying leaner. I was never really low carb, I’ve done carb cycling which definitely works for some but I didn’t love the results. I was carb-cycling, having no cheat meals, and doing a lot of cardio just to get as lean as I am now without any cardio and plenty of foods I want to eat. And now I don’t have to be a slave to my kitchen anymore!
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]fd24 wrote:
a 16 day fasting period [/quote]
Hours, not days
BBB[/quote]
Whoops haha yeah 16 days is not advised, thank you!
Nice catch. 16 days… I have fasted before for a day at a time, and it does give you real clarity. It is the result of denying yourself food, and therefore, controlling your desire to eat. Once you get control and discipline of your desire, whatever it be, it gives you great clarity. No doubt.
I could do this… On the night before I lift the following day at Noon for example, eat my normal dinner, and then the night shake. I am usually in bed by 9:00, so that would be easy. Then the next day, get up, maybe coffee, but then fast that morning, until half hour pre workout and do my normal pre workout shake. Then do my normal post shake, and the rest of the day would be my window to eat. That would be VERY practical for me, and I will try it and see what it does.
The only change to my norm, would be to just fast the morning before I lift over lunch. Seems like easy to fit in my routine.
THANKS ! I will go check out that sight.
Just went to leangains site. Makes sense. I will go to bed, then not eat the following morning until
my pre workout shake at 11:30. That will give me the 16 hours fast…
My pre shake has 40 g protein, with the 3 choc bars. My post shake has 40 g waxy maize in it, with the 20 g protein. Then I will eat 3-4 times the rest of the day. I can see what he is saying, and I can believe two things… it won’t interfere with what I am already doing. The morning on the day of my Noon workout, I would have only eaten a couple packs of oatmeal, and an egg mcmuffin. Doing it this way means I will still gain muscle, but that fast in the morning, will tighten up the little 3/4 inch wrap I have around my lower AB !!!
Then eating post workout will put food in just the right place to be used to grow muscle.
Makes great sense.
I’m sticking with my 2 snickers pre workout, I’ll change it if/when it loses its effectiveness.
The only change I’ve made so far was one day when I felt particularly tired and peckish I ate 3 snickers and drank a sugary ‘rock-star energy’ drink on my way to the gym- now that was a good workout!
[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:
Just went to leangains site. Makes sense. I will go to bed, then not eat the following morning until
my pre workout shake at 11:30. That will give me the 16 hours fast…
My pre shake has 40 g protein, with the 3 choc bars. My post shake has 40 g waxy maize in it, with the 20 g protein. Then I will eat 3-4 times the rest of the day. I can see what he is saying, and I can believe two things… it won’t interfere with what I am already doing. The morning on the day of my Noon workout, I would have only eaten a couple packs of oatmeal, and an egg mcmuffin. Doing it this way means I will still gain muscle, but that fast in the morning, will tighten up the little 3/4 inch wrap I have around my lower AB !!!
Then eating post workout will put food in just the right place to be used to grow muscle.
Makes great sense.[/quote]
Yeah, lean gains is very popular and there is tons of information on his site. One of the best parts is that you can just use the articles/information he posts to build your own personal design for the diet to make it fit your lifestyle. Also, if you have been using the waxy maize and seeing good results then by all means continue, but I personally don’t like that stuff. It’s supposed to be digested faster than Dextrose, and/or Maltodextrin but it isn’t. It creates a relatively small insulin spike and digests much slower than advertised. It’s a personal preference obviously but just something to consider. I also think it would be beneficial to try the fasted training here and there, it is a good change of pace and leads to great workouts and helps to stay lean.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
I’m sticking with my 2 snickers pre workout, I’ll change it if/when it loses its effectiveness.
The only change I’ve made so far was one day when I felt particularly tired and peckish I ate 3 snickers and drank a sugary ‘rock-star energy’ drink on my way to the gym- now that was a good workout![/quote]
This makes sense, if something works then you have no reason to change it, especially if that includes eating something as fucking good as snickers lol!!
I’m with you Budda, staying with choc bars preworkout with the 40 g protein…every time I lift, which is every other day.
But I can throw in the morning fast on Tuesdays as we lift at Noon. I’ll have a little coffee that morning, then do my choc bars, etc, at 11:30, lift at Noon. See what happens.
At this point…have dosed exactly 100 mcg G 6 every morning upon waking. Not seeing much result or effect, but also didn’t expect much. I was just doing a once daily at wake up to get my system accustomed to it to see if it would affect my sleep. It hasn’t. Next Tuesday I think I will add a second dose post workout, and see if it affects my sleep. If it doesn’t, then I will add some second daily doses around noon, and monitor the sleep as I go.
question if any body knows
if max fat loss were the goal, would it be better to inject PRE workout assuming I wait 25-30 mins to start sipping on my aminos?
fd,
you mention that Waxy Maize is not digesting as fast as the others, causing an insulin spike, etc…how do you measure that? Or is it just your opinion from how it affects you? I have wondered about and used several different Carbs. If you have some way of measuring their digestion and absorbtion, I would love to see it… The more info the better.
[quote]txhawkeyes wrote:
fd,
you mention that Waxy Maize is not digesting as fast as the others, causing an insulin spike, etc…how do you measure that? Or is it just your opinion from how it affects you? I have wondered about and used several different Carbs. If you have some way of measuring their digestion and absorbtion, I would love to see it… The more info the better.[/quote]
I sent you a pm with an interesting article to read on waixy maze, it will breakdown the science behind it. I have also used it and spoke with a bunch of top diet coaches about its use/effectiveness. Just food for thought, always worthwhile to try new things, we are always learning in this game.
[quote]Lurxalot wrote:
question if any body knows
if max fat loss were the goal, would it be better to inject PRE workout assuming I wait 25-30 mins to start sipping on my aminos?[/quote]
No, if your goal is max fat loss the two best times would be right in the morning on an empty stomach and then do fasted cardio or post-workout. Take advantage of it’s ability to help you preserve muscle.