New York Pro!

Training
241

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
Where is the line drawn between using “super” supps and abusing them?[/quote]

anything over a true TRT dose (a couple of hundred mg) is abuse

someone like ramy is likely using 6-8000mg just of test, tons of tren and other steroids and tons of gh and insulin [/quote]

Says who? you? anything more than a couple of hundred mg’s is abuse? Sorry i can take this serious from someone who has taken their screen name from a Drake song…[/quote]

dude it is just a fact it doesn’t matter if you take me seriously

don’t get upset just cos you take more

i don’t care what people do

but by definition - more than a trt dose is abuse
[/quote]

lolwut?

I don’t believe you understand the definition of the word abuse in general.[/quote]

a lot of people have different definitions…

-some believe it’s using more than your body naturally produces
-others believe that it’s the dose at which you start to harm yourself

I tend to agree with the latter[/quote]

Spot on, abuse is pretty much when it causes hard to yourself.

And as we know any more than a TRT dose of steroids makes ur nuts shrivel up and your skin fall off.

And i’m not upset, you’re just an idiot. [/quote]

Lols are had at his expense, as always dude.

242

ok guys… let’s lower our doses for a bit and keep It civil

243

Im not even sure wtf is going on here anymore lol

244

If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?

This thread is supposed to be about the competition…but then like all bodybuilding competition threads it spirals into a discussion on how much drugs people take, etc. Amazing how much some people f*cking cares.

245

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?

This thread is supposed to be about the competition…but then like all bodybuilding competition threads it spirals into a discussion on how much drugs people take, etc. Amazing how much some people f*cking cares. [/quote]

To clarify although I dont feel like im being adressed in this post when I refered to abusive dose I was refering to doses that I know most users would say “omg thats pretty low I thought it would be higher”

246

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?
[/quote]

in all seriousness i do not understand why you guys are having an emotional response to the word “abuse”

it is not a judgement or moral comment or something

and yes there are variances within individuals - but taking a reasonable range, not much

there is no comparison with vit C or protein consumption and injecting hormones don’t be silly (unless you want to say something silly again like taking 50 vitamin pills a day rather than 1)

there is no need to be defensive - i am not even anti steroids lol

but let’s take marzouk as an example:

-he is on his first cycle
-starts bogstandard BB amounts
-starts very obese despite all advice always saying start lean
-knows nothing about health markers
-walkaway tells him he should watch his BP
-goes and gets his BP done and it’s 150/100 lol!

many people lurk these threads including kids even dumber than marzouk

no one is saying steroids are the devil, but people need to be aware that if you take more than a normal trt amount - there are potential dangers.

these can be easily controlled (many in this thread take more and for longer and are fine cos they take proper care of themselves)

but if you take more than a small amount you put yourself at having health problems therefore it is abusive.

ANYWAY HOPE THREAD CAN GET BACK ON TOPIC

GO AARON TEAM TNATION

247

ON TOPIC

does anyone know why Cedric isn’t doing this show?

why did he do the FIBO? ive never even heard of it - the NY Pro/ NOC is like the 3rd biggest show after O and AC isn’t it?

248

I forgot aaron is doing the open class not 212, that should be really interesting. I always thought he could dominate the 212 class in a few years. But him aiming to do damage in the open should be really interesting. He always seemed like a cool guy when he posted on here, especially considering the kind of hate he got…on a site called “Testosterone Nation” hahaha

249

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
ON TOPIC

does anyone know why Cedric isn’t doing this show?

why did he do the FIBO? ive never even heard of it - the NY Pro/ NOC is like the 3rd biggest show after O and AC isn’t it?[/quote]

I’m guessing because he stood a better chance of winning the FIBO and qualifying for the Olympia. Just my guess, I don’t follow pro bodybuilding that much anymore…

250

[quote]johnman18 wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
ON TOPIC

does anyone know why Cedric isn’t doing this show?

why did he do the FIBO? ive never even heard of it - the NY Pro/ NOC is like the 3rd biggest show after O and AC isn’t it?[/quote]
I’m guessing because he stood a better chance of winning the FIBO and qualifying for the Olympia. Just my guess, I don’t follow pro bodybuilding that much anymore…[/quote]

this would be my guess as well…

I think JOJ would be way easier for Cedric to have beaten than Ramy

251

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

but let’s take marzouk as an example:

-he is on his first cycle
-starts bogstandard BB amounts
-starts very obese despite all advice always saying start lean
-knows nothing about health markers
-walkaway tells him he should watch his BP
-goes and gets his BP done and it’s 150/100 lol!
[/quote]

lol I knew that would be a trainwreck from the get go…the irony is that he is plainly proving your point about above trt doses… right now his kidneys are taking a beating…

and those do NOT repair like your liver does

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
GO AARON TEAM TNATION
[/quote]

I think you signed up after T-Nation ran AC off with their anti-bodybuilding rhetoric. T-Nation is actually very anti-bodybuilding

lol@p22

252

so ramy is over 300 pounds this lean at average height ? lol bigger than ronnie, cutler and yates off-season weight
even current mr.o phil heath stage weight isnt more than 240 (i know its listed at 260 or whatever…more bb’ing marketing bs)
I dont buy this sandman garbage. this guy looks so full of oil its disgusting

253

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?

This thread is supposed to be about the competition…but then like all bodybuilding competition threads it spirals into a discussion on how much drugs people take, etc. Amazing how much some people f*cking cares. [/quote]

To clarify although I dont feel like im being adressed in this post when I refered to abusive dose I was refering to doses that I know most users would say “omg thats pretty low I thought it would be higher”[/quote]

Not directed at you at all ZRaw.
This was just a general rant.

254

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?
[/quote]

in all seriousness i do not understand why you guys are having an emotional response to the word “abuse”

it is not a judgement or moral comment or something

and yes there are variances within individuals - but taking a reasonable range, not much

there is no comparison with vit C or protein consumption and injecting hormones don’t be silly (unless you want to say something silly again like taking 50 vitamin pills a day rather than 1)

there is no need to be defensive - i am not even anti steroids lol

but let’s take marzouk as an example:

-he is on his first cycle
-starts bogstandard BB amounts
-starts very obese despite all advice always saying start lean
-knows nothing about health markers
-walkaway tells him he should watch his BP
-goes and gets his BP done and it’s 150/100 lol!

many people lurk these threads including kids even dumber than marzouk

no one is saying steroids are the devil, but people need to be aware that if you take more than a normal trt amount - there are potential dangers.

these can be easily controlled (many in this thread take more and for longer and are fine cos they take proper care of themselves)

but if you take more than a small amount you put yourself at having health problems therefore it is abusive.

ANYWAY HOPE THREAD CAN GET BACK ON TOPIC

GO AARON TEAM TNATION
[/quote]

Alas, your point about being overly sensitive to the word “abusive” is correct here. Overall, good post. Totally agree with the notion that when using anabolics, one has to approach them intelligently. I also strongly believe this applies to supplement usage as well.

And yes, back to topic.

Cedric appears to have won at FIBO. The pics I’ve seen of that show were not the usual good pics you often see at good shows; the lighting was simply awful. Cedric appeared much smaller (less full) than before, but his shape and lines are simply superb.

255

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?
[/quote]

in all seriousness i do not understand why you guys are having an emotional response to the word “abuse”

it is not a judgement or moral comment or something

and yes there are variances within individuals - but taking a reasonable range, not much

there is no comparison with vit C or protein consumption and injecting hormones don’t be silly (unless you want to say something silly again like taking 50 vitamin pills a day rather than 1)

there is no need to be defensive - i am not even anti steroids lol

but let’s take marzouk as an example:

-he is on his first cycle
-starts bogstandard BB amounts
-starts very obese despite all advice always saying start lean
-knows nothing about health markers
-walkaway tells him he should watch his BP
-goes and gets his BP done and it’s 150/100 lol!

many people lurk these threads including kids even dumber than marzouk

no one is saying steroids are the devil, but people need to be aware that if you take more than a normal trt amount - there are potential dangers.

these can be easily controlled (many in this thread take more and for longer and are fine cos they take proper care of themselves)

but if you take more than a small amount you put yourself at having health problems therefore it is abusive.

ANYWAY HOPE THREAD CAN GET BACK ON TOPIC

GO AARON TEAM TNATION
[/quote]

Alas, your point about being overly sensitive to the word “abusive” is correct here. Overall, good post. Totally agree with the notion that when using anabolics, one has to approach them intelligently. I also strongly believe this applies to supplement usage as well.

And yes, back to topic.

Cedric appears to have won at FIBO. The pics I’ve seen of that show were not the usual good pics you often see at good shows; the lighting was simply awful. Cedric appeared much smaller (less full) than before, but his shape and lines are simply superb.
[/quote]

I agree… The lineup at FIBO was a little weak but I’m glad Cedric got the win so he can focus on the O. When Chris A. is able to finally figure out how to have Ced come in on point… that dude is going to shake up the IFBB. This year is getting hyped as Phil/Kai/Jay but I really think that Cedric and Rhoden (although maybe more so in a couple years) could be serious dark horses this year.

256

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?
[/quote]

in all seriousness i do not understand why you guys are having an emotional response to the word “abuse”

it is not a judgement or moral comment or something

and yes there are variances within individuals - but taking a reasonable range, not much

there is no comparison with vit C or protein consumption and injecting hormones don’t be silly (unless you want to say something silly again like taking 50 vitamin pills a day rather than 1)

there is no need to be defensive - i am not even anti steroids lol

but let’s take marzouk as an example:

-he is on his first cycle
-starts bogstandard BB amounts
-starts very obese despite all advice always saying start lean
-knows nothing about health markers
-walkaway tells him he should watch his BP
-goes and gets his BP done and it’s 150/100 lol!

many people lurk these threads including kids even dumber than marzouk

no one is saying steroids are the devil, but people need to be aware that if you take more than a normal trt amount - there are potential dangers.

these can be easily controlled (many in this thread take more and for longer and are fine cos they take proper care of themselves)

but if you take more than a small amount you put yourself at having health problems therefore it is abusive.

ANYWAY HOPE THREAD CAN GET BACK ON TOPIC

GO AARON TEAM TNATION
[/quote]

Alas, your point about being overly sensitive to the word “abusive” is correct here. Overall, good post. Totally agree with the notion that when using anabolics, one has to approach them intelligently. I also strongly believe this applies to supplement usage as well.

And yes, back to topic.

Cedric appears to have won at FIBO. The pics I’ve seen of that show were not the usual good pics you often see at good shows; the lighting was simply awful. Cedric appeared much smaller (less full) than before, but his shape and lines are simply superb.
[/quote]

I agree… The lineup at FIBO was a little weak but I’m glad Cedric got the win so he can focus on the O. When Chris A. is able to finally figure out how to have Ced come in on point… that dude is going to shake up the IFBB. This year is getting hyped as Phil/Kai/Jay but I really think that Cedric and Rhoden (although maybe more so in a couple years) could be serious dark horses this year.[/quote]

Nah, Ced cant hang with these guys… he needs to add another 20lbs of stage weight to even have a shot, imo. I dont see him making anything better than top10, if at all…

Imo

Phil
Kai
Jay
Wolf
Evan
Pakulski
Dexter
Branch
Rhoden
Martinez

will all place ahead of him…

257

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
If I take more than the recommended amount of vitamin C, is that abuse?
If I take in more than the recommended (by the medical profession) more than the recommended amount of protein, is that abuse?

If the answer is YES to these types of questions, then it seems like some who deem doing ANYTHING outside what our esteemed medical professional community (who knows always what is best for us of course) recommends is abuse.

How do you define abuse past TRT? TRT dosages are different for different people, depending on the medical professional representative and their methods for determining the “proper” dosage and ancilliaries (many don’t prescribe the ancilliaries really required). Is it a certain number published in a book? Is it the mean of a certain population?
[/quote]

in all seriousness i do not understand why you guys are having an emotional response to the word “abuse”

it is not a judgement or moral comment or something

and yes there are variances within individuals - but taking a reasonable range, not much

there is no comparison with vit C or protein consumption and injecting hormones don’t be silly (unless you want to say something silly again like taking 50 vitamin pills a day rather than 1)

there is no need to be defensive - i am not even anti steroids lol

but let’s take marzouk as an example:

-he is on his first cycle
-starts bogstandard BB amounts
-starts very obese despite all advice always saying start lean
-knows nothing about health markers
-walkaway tells him he should watch his BP
-goes and gets his BP done and it’s 150/100 lol!

many people lurk these threads including kids even dumber than marzouk

no one is saying steroids are the devil, but people need to be aware that if you take more than a normal trt amount - there are potential dangers.

these can be easily controlled (many in this thread take more and for longer and are fine cos they take proper care of themselves)

but if you take more than a small amount you put yourself at having health problems therefore it is abusive.

ANYWAY HOPE THREAD CAN GET BACK ON TOPIC

GO AARON TEAM TNATION
[/quote]

Alas, your point about being overly sensitive to the word “abusive” is correct here. Overall, good post. Totally agree with the notion that when using anabolics, one has to approach them intelligently. I also strongly believe this applies to supplement usage as well.

And yes, back to topic.

Cedric appears to have won at FIBO. The pics I’ve seen of that show were not the usual good pics you often see at good shows; the lighting was simply awful. Cedric appeared much smaller (less full) than before, but his shape and lines are simply superb.
[/quote]

I agree… The lineup at FIBO was a little weak but I’m glad Cedric got the win so he can focus on the O. When Chris A. is able to finally figure out how to have Ced come in on point… that dude is going to shake up the IFBB. This year is getting hyped as Phil/Kai/Jay but I really think that Cedric and Rhoden (although maybe more so in a couple years) could be serious dark horses this year.[/quote]

Nah, Ced cant hang with these guys… he needs to add another 20lbs of stage weight to even have a shot, imo. I dont see him making anything better than top10, if at all…

Imo

Phil
Kai
Jay
Rhoden
Wolf
Dexter
Branch
pakulski
Martinez

will all place ahead of him…[/quote]

fixed

258

Oh I wasnt placing them in order heh

259

for any of you guys who are really knowledgeable of bodybuilding on a pro level, serious question:

do any of you see the pendulum swinging the other way anytime in the near future as far as going for a more aesthetic look, and not the bloated monsters/freaks which seem to be winning the shows these days?

i think most on this board, though are in awe of the size of some of these 260-300lb monsters, including me, but we think the look a dexter jackson, or tony freeman is better.

i am not saying we will ever go back to the frank zane look and size, but maybe not 5’7" 250lbs shredded with a huge bloated gh belly big either though.
i could be wrong, but that is what i have gathered lurking the bodybuilding threads.

260

[quote]zraw wrote:
Nah, Ced cant hang with these guys… he needs to add another 20lbs of stage weight to even have a shot, imo. I dont see him making anything better than top10, if at all…

Imo

Phil
Kai
Jay
Wolf
Evan
Pakulski
Dexter
Branch
Rhoden
Martinez

will all place ahead of him…[/quote]

agreed - Ced is far too small to come in top 2 or so.

Kai and Phil are such freaks you have to be able to match them size wise to have a chance

same with rhoden - personally don’t get it at all the guy is far too small to rival the top 2

being realistic rhoden and ced need to add 20+lbs of stage weight and neither are young - it is a huge leap to think this is ever gonna happen never mind this year

Evan has the best chance of getting top 3 of the guys above imo or maybe dexter