Pete, bro, Can you give an example of your average daily intake? at 5’7 and 173 I’d take in far fewer overal cals than you, however I’d like to know your food combos throughout the day. Secondly, how do you tackle the issue of protein absorption? Taking in 100 grams in a single meal is feasible, however how much of that is absorbed and utilized? Thanks.
“MB Eric: Shreddin’ ‘n beddin’ only places he’s headin’ since 1766.”
-Eric
the articles in this mag barely scratch the surface of the Warrior Diet by Ori Holfmelker, and as far as the pizza goes, in his book Ori makes an analogy with pizza as a “fresh kill” (i.e. the crust being the skin, the sauce representing the blood, etc.) and states that “every once in a while it doesn’t hurt to enjoy a slice or two”…in his book he speaks harshly about redefined sugars and says they have NO place in the warrior diet (i.e. cookies, ice cream etc.) and give some alternatives to sugar loaded deserts (he has recipes for stuff like pumpkin cheese cake) He’s got alot of interesting concepts in the book, which are very very similar to those posted in this thread, for anybody who wants to try this, this is the book to read. Oh yeah, and Tim’s whole approach to this diet is NOT the warrior diet…and Tim even says that its “his take” on the diet, and is not as ridgid as Ori’s diet, so “don’t blame him if it doesn’t work for you”…this is where all the talk about eating till you throw up and eating whatever you want after the main meal comes in (i.e. the ice cream and all that)…it is never mentioned once in his book (except for NEVER eat it), and was simply just Tim being himself…the book is very good…its not for everyone, but like i said before, if you are interested in this type of eating…everything you need to know is in “the warrior diet” by ori holfmelker…stick with the T training tho…the training that he recommends in his book is mainly for the novice…one last thing…i dont know how valuable a one day fast would be on this type of diet, i’d much rather see people just take a “cheat day” and eat whatever the hell they want…the fat will come off faster…from my experience, everytime i tried to go on a reduced calorie diet without incorporating a cheat day i made less progress then when i did…as soon as i took that one day a week off from the diet…the fat started coming off faster…and to be honest…i dont think its very feasable to tell people that you can “never” eat ice cream and cookies again…this is one concept that i cannot agree with for both psychological and physical purposes…as crazy as it might sound…your body just needs a break from the diet at least once a week (unless your going into an contest in 2 weeks or something…i’m just trying not to get super technical) and it will help you shed fat faster…those of you who incorporate cheat days, free days, or whatever you want to call 'em into your diet know i’m telling the truth…and those of you who havn’t…just try and if it doesn’t work, then call me a liar
Monkeyboy, I understand your question of such a large protien intake in 1 meal. There never has been a study stating how much protien can be absorbed in a given meal, so the answer really isn’t known. I do know for sure when I used to go on mass phases and I’d jump from say 40g protein to 80 per meal, I definitely put on much more muscle. The protein must be used somehow so It would stand to reason that it is slowly being utilized by the body, for tissue repair after lifting, enzyme production, etc. I’m currently following a Poliquin type routine, meaning:
Day 1:Chest and Biceps
Day 2:Legs
Day 3:Off
Day 4:Back and Triceps
Day 5:Off
Repeat
The only diet that works for me in terms of fat loss is a high protein, low carb, low fat diet, Duchaine talked about a fish and water diet in BodyOpus, and Dave Draper talks about a Tuna and Water only diet. I know it seems catabolic, etc, but its all that works to lose fat for me.
So on that note, I aim for 75%protein/25% fat on training days. This would be 3lbs top round steak, along with 9 fish oil capsules, thats it. This gets me my 1.5g protein per lb. of bodyweight, and is cutting the fat off like no other plan. On non-training days, I believe it is good to eat more frequently to shock the body, as well as the fact that some days food would be more readily available.
Believe it or not I haven’t been carb loading, rather FAT LOADING. I got the idea from the Atkins book, as well as John Meadows (bodybuilder) and Dr. Eric Serrano. I aim for 3-4 meals a day and turn the ratio’s around to 75%fat, 25% protein, at a high calorie level. Again, I am still experimenting, but this is working out great for me. I also think the high calorie day will keep the metabolism boosted, as well as allow more fat loss from a higher fat intake. The high fat day fills out my muscles and brings my veins out more much the same way a carb load does.
These are my current calculations I am using. It isn’t necessary for everyone, and probably not optimal for some either, but I want to keep accurate track of my plan so I can refine it to help people, if it works. Take your bodyweight x 8, which gives you total calories. Multiply your bodyweight x 1.5 and that’s grams of protein on training days. Multiply this by 4 and thats calories from protein. Subtract the total from protein cals and that gives u calories from fat. Divide by 9 to get grams of fat. I aim for 1 to 2 meals per day, after training. If I can’t eat it all in 1 meal then I eat again 2-3 hours later.
Example for 200lb man:
200 * 8 = 1600 cals total
200 * 1.5 = 300g protein
300 * 4 = 1200 cals protein (75%)
1600 - 1200 = 400 cals fat (25%)
400 / 9 = 44g fat
These numbers seem low but for me thats what I need, and anyone who’s resistant to fat loss should try it out. Its not for everyone and it goes against whats recommended, but all I can say is its working when nothing else for me has.
The high calories day should give a huge metabolic boost and fill the muscles out, I’d recommend this every 5th day.
Example 200lb man.
200 * 16 = 3200 calories
.25 * 3200 = 800 calories protein
800 / 4 = 200g protein (25% protein, 1 g per lb. bodyweight)
2400 / 9 = 266g fat (75% fat)
If you give this a try, let me know. A carb load every 5th day may be more ideal for you, let me know how it works out.
so I tried a fat load a few times and while it fills my muscles out, it also fills out my waist, particularly lower abs. I’ve never been able to lose on Atkins, Anabolic Diet, BodyOpus, etc, the high fat intake bloats me and I look worse, I thought an occassional fat load would help, maybe for some, but not me. Next time i’m going to try my original plan, which is a carbohydrate load, mainly from green vegetables and maybe some fruit.
Woohoo, I saw Dave Draper’s name and had to chime in (uh, I’m starting to scare myself). You’re diet sounds interesting and I for one would like to see you post your results. While not at extreme, I remember MM2K mentioning several times (poliquin, that whole alphabet diet, Duchaine) that you should get around 25-50% of your daily caloric intake immediately after working out. I think the 25% was for two-a-day workouts. So keep us posted. and by the way, for the guy that said the big cats aren’t muscular, say that when you’re face to face with a 900lb Siberian Tiger 
This is an interesting idea for a number of reasons but the basic thinking behind it is just flawed. You can’t look at other species of animals and expect the same results they get by eating like them. Different animals metabolize food in very different ways. And no, you can’t “generalize” food patterns for predators. Some predators do eat infrequently (lions will go days without eating and then eat up to 150 POUNDS of meat in one sitting) while other “similar” predators have to eat frequently (cheetahs will eat several times a day if they can). If one wanted to make an “animal” eating program the obvious choice would be primates because their bodies function the closest to humans in many respects. So we could design a “guerilla diet” and try to get big and strong like guerillas (anyone who’s seen a full grown male guerilla up close knows that these animals are stronger and more powerful than any human being could ever become). Well, I guess our “guerilla diet” would basically consist of grazing on leaves, bamboo, and vegtables all day long. You can try munching on greens all day every day but I assure you this is not the way to get big (humans just can’t use all that vegetable protein in the same way guerillas can). It’s true that guerillas aren’t meat eaters but trying to equate humans to other meat eaters like felines, reptiles, etc. is not going to yield any more clues about the ideal way for humans to eat then vice versa (lions don’t need fruits, vegetables, and fiber to maintain a healthy body. Feeding a lion oranges and broccoli will not make the lion live longer.). If there is one specific predator that gave you this idea let me know and I can give you a lot of reasons why “cross species comparisons” to humans for that particular predator is bad thinking. Human being are unique predatory omnivores, not lions or wolves or anything else.
Anyway, I do think the diet is interesting. I lived in Japan for almost two years and trained in martial arts while there. Although I didn’t train in Sumo, I got to know some of those guys and they do eat in a way that is pretty similar. I can tell you that, unlike what a previous poster wrote, those Sumo guys work out like crazy before their big meal. In fact, some Sumo training programs have these guys basically working out ALL day before their end of the day feast. The smaller meals they eat a few times during the day are sometimes actually eaten WHILE working out because some sumo schools won’t even break for meals. However, it IS true that the big meal usually includes lots of high GI carbs (rice)and this probably does effect results. I think you would lose weight on this diet if total calories are under maintainance (duh) and put on weight if calories are above maintainance. However, the group of HUMANS who eat like this now (sumo wrestlers) seem to get strong but also fat. Still this is interesting and I wonder how eating several meals of just vegetables during the day (followed by a super meal at night) would affect results. The sumo guys eat mainly rice during their workouts. Still there are two basic problems with this: (1) Study after study has shown that the body does get more catabolic the longer it is starved (we all wake up in a catabolic state and generally stay there until breakfast) and (2) Although there isn’t nearly as much research on this point, it’s unlikely that the HUMAN body can handle more than 100 grams of protein at a shot (and probably much less than this). Anyway, good luck and let us know your results.
Blackjack, you bring up a lot of good points, and many things you say I can’t argue with. About the diet of primates, it is believed in some scientific circles that we broke away from them b/c of our increased intake of meat. That we became more intelligent and developed how we did b/c of the easily absorbable nutrients in meat. I totally agree we aren’t wolves, lions, etc. But Protein Power does a comparison of the human digestive tract compared to a wolf and sheep, and there is a lot of similarity between our digestive system and wolves, if you want I can type up the comparisons. Also, Neanderthin does a great job talking about the relationship of man and wolf growing b/c of similar nutritional needs, and co-operation used between us for hunting. I’m not saying this is the perfect plan, or end all. It is a thoery that I still feel has a lot of merit. People say we don’t know how humans used to eat, etc. Others say we do, and to a point we have an idea of how we ate, and I feel a paleo diet mimics best how we used to eat. In terms of eating patterns I feel that we should look at other animals, who live in nature, and hunt food like we used to, to draw comparisons on eating patterns. Again, I believe humans are the only animals that graze on meats that other animals gorge on, except occassionally during the right circumstances an animal would eat meat frequently if they could manage to protect a carcass from other predators/scavengers.
The protein pulse study I refer to shows protein synthesis increases dramatically during a huge protein feeding, and frequent protein meals may just decrease sensitivity, this plan utilizes protein when it will be most effective for our goals, and allow sensitivity to increase rather that just feed on protein b/c we’re told we’re in a catabolic state. I don’t buy it b/c I haven’t been losing muscle on this plan, and I eat protein once or twice a day. And a dramatic increase in protein synthesis (again, 19% vs. 2% increase from freqeunt feeding) compensates for any muscle wasting that could occur from eating protein less frequently.
Heya T-freques. I’ve been toying with the ideas on this thread and have come up with a couple of possible ideas. 1) Eat slightly larger meals every 3 hours rather than every 2 hours. It seems to keep me fuller and more energized than eating small every 2 hours. 2) “Pyramid” style eating: following massive eating protocols, but eating a large breakfast, followed by meals that decrease in overall caloric amount over the course of the day (excluding post-workout intake). Whatcha think? Lata.
“MB Eric: Captain of Kettlebellin’ since 1555.”
-Eric
This is tha way we bump da post, bump da post, bump da post, this is the way we bump da post at 10:30 in the mornin’…Hehe