New to MMA, How Should I Lift?

Training
21

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

4 times a week for 2 hours is a lot if he’s leading a normal life, as most people do. Unless he’s devoted his entire life to training, of course, in which case yes, there is time for a decent amount of lifting.

[/quote]

That’s three days where he’s doing nothing. I say if this guy wants to compete amateur, he ought to have at least two days of lifting/conditioning, if his schedule doesn’t permit technique and lifting/conditioning on the same day, that still gives him one day off.

If the lifting days are next to each other, I’d recommend a split. I think if you can only lift twice a week, you might benefit more by spacing your lifting days as much as possible and doing full-body/big lifts both days.

Irish, I’ve just been totally shocked at the lack of conditioning I’m seeing since I jumped back in to combat sports. I’m blown away that folks can take themselves as seriously as they do as both amateur and low/mid-level professional fighters, and have such overall poor conditioning, so I might be reacting a little strongly. Going to bed an hour earlier, so I can wake up an hour earlier, so I can get 45min of weight-training in before work, so I can show up for class/practice after work recovered, doesn’t seem that outlandish. Especially for these semi-professional guys.

22

I don’t know about the rest of you but my BJJ classes 3 times a week are enough for me. I’m sore as hell all of the time, I’ve tried lifting in between and no dice. I’ll maybe do some conditioning on Sat or Sun but other than that I’m just sitting around sore.

23

I love these posts…
we never get enough of them,
nor the colorful well thought out responses.

at 8 months its great that your going to compete.
It still makes you a beginner which is cool so its not that crucial- just that you have fun.

If your already ‘strong’ in the weight room focus on not gassing out and
getting some good basics down solidly for your meet match tourney what ever.

Most college wrestling rooms have people lift in season 2x maybe maybe 3x a week so that is 2 to 3 hours a week tops

I reference the college programs - cause until anyone is a ‘pro’ no one is doing anything nearly as regimented
as they might think- and that is ok

I would say for this upcoming meet match or what ever- lift like you do now.
go- do the gig have some fucking fun and see what works for you for the next one.

the real ratio with this stuff is its easy to put priorities in the wrong order…
this is a site mostly dealing with strength training and what ever passes for body building.

and its the internet.

the order should be technique conditioning ‘strenght trainng’

the best questions is- what is your training like now

is it working?

what is your body comp like?

are you gassing during rolling/sparring etc?

how is your flexibility?

basic shit questions

24

[quote]Warpig wrote:
I don’t know about the rest of you but my BJJ classes 3 times a week are enough for me. I’m sore as hell all of the time, I’ve tried lifting in between and no dice. I’ll maybe do some conditioning on Sat or Sun but other than that I’m just sitting around sore.[/quote]

General conditioning.

Takes years to build.

That’s why I’m so against this attitude of “just do skil stuff” 'till you’re at a high-level. By then it’s really too late.

It’s really not much to add 2-4 weight-room sessions a week, sprinting, exe. and bring you general conditioning up with your skill level.

I think you should fundamentally separate the idea of technique training from conditioning in your head. Yes, you get conditioning work while training technique, but it’s not enough, especially if it’s only a couple times a week, to substitute conditioning (I subsume weight training under conditioning).

For combat sports you need: speed, strength, agility, anaerobic and aerobic endurance. These are all things we know how to effectively increase in the weight-room, in fact, you can much more effectively increase them in a shorter period of time this way.

What am I most lacking? What do I need? Do conditioning work for it.

25

I have been taking Muay Thai religiously for over 2 years now. We train every sunday & wednesday for roughly 2 hours per session. I am @ amateur level in striking. No ground game. People may argue against the way i train weights but i find it works best for me @ 230 lbs. I can cut to 205 if need be but am more comfortable fighting @ a 215 catchweight.

Before i started training i was heavily into bodybuidling…and still am respectivley. I still split my workouts into bodypart-specific but have shifted my exercises into more sport specific and functional exercises. I try to stay away from the gym on days we train. We do hundreds of pushups. prisoner squats, lunges etc and somtimes after a good lift it is hard to make it thru the 2 hours.
A typical week of training looks somthing like this:
M:Back
T:Chest
W:MT
TH:Legs
F:Shoulders
S:Arms/General Conditioning
SU:MT

Not to say this is what works best for everyone. But this works really well for me. Ive been able to put lean mass on while staying fairly lean with all the cardio involved with kickboxing…sparring, padwork, clinch drills, general conditioning exercises etc. You are new to the game. Find out what works best for you. Find someone really good and in good shape and chat them up. Find someone in ur gym and maybe they will take u under their wing. Goodluck man. Fighting and lifting are the 2 things in life that keep me going.

26

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

I actually love the number of MMA guys who focus only on technique. It’s amazing how easy it is to roll-over someone who has a few years of BJJ on me, same weight class, but has shit for strength and conditioning.

Being strong allows you to focus on technique while rolling/sparring/in a match because you don’t have to worry about powering through everything. I think the biggest mistake most low-level fighters make is not conditioning enough.[/quote]

I call super-bullshit (it’s like bullshit, but it flies). My main training partner when I want to work on technique weighs 140 and doesn’t lift at all. I’m sitting at a soft 185. He’s been at it for 4 years, I have less than 2 years under my belt. I can’t roll him off the mount.

Also, I disagree with your second paragraph, at least in the context of BJJ. I think being weaker than your training partners forces you to work out more elegant methods to counter their strength and improve. I’m stronger than all but one guy in my class and find myself muscling a lot. My 2cents.

27

[quote]Warpig wrote:
I don’t know about the rest of you but my BJJ classes 3 times a week are enough for me. I’m sore as hell all of the time, I’ve tried lifting in between and no dice. I’ll maybe do some conditioning on Sat or Sun but other than that I’m just sitting around sore.[/quote]

How hard do you spar. Personally I don’t feel sore at all after my sessions (also 2-3) and I tend to roll pretty hard for at least 30min total.

28

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

I actually love the number of MMA guys who focus only on technique. It’s amazing how easy it is to roll-over someone who has a few years of BJJ on me, same weight class, but has shit for strength and conditioning.

Being strong allows you to focus on technique while rolling/sparring/in a match because you don’t have to worry about powering through everything. I think the biggest mistake most low-level fighters make is not conditioning enough.[/quote]

I call super-bullshit (it’s like bullshit, but it flies). My main training partner when I want to work on technique weighs 140 and doesn’t lift at all. I’m sitting at a soft 185. He’s been at it for 4 years, I have less than 2 years under my belt. I can’t roll him off the mount.

Also, I disagree with your second paragraph, at least in the context of BJJ. I think being weaker than your training partners forces you to work out more elegant methods to counter their strength and improve. I’m stronger than all but one guy in my class and find myself muscling a lot. My 2cents.[/quote]
You are right, there is a reason the biggest strongest guys aren’t he best bjj practitioners. Marcelo Garcia, Roger Gracie etc… Being weaker forces you to work technique. I’m not trying to open some can of worms and say don’t lift, but BJJ is a technique centered sport first and foremost.

29

[quote]rundymc wrote:
I’m sitting at a soft 185.[/quote]

there’s your problem.

30

One of them for sure. Give me some time, I’m working on it.

31

[quote]BigMike wrote:

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:

[quote]BigMike wrote:
ok , im new to mma and i wanna incorperate lifting , how should i lift ? should i do upper and lower body days ? me and de days ? or scrap de days for re days ? full body ? body part splits ? kettle bells only ? [/quote]

you’re new to mma as a hobby?

just lift however the hell you want dude. get big.[/quote]

no not as a hobby , i plan to fight as an amateur in another 6-8 months,im taking this seriously . i train 4 days a week 2 hrs at a time and have been doing this for the past 4 months. [/quote]

Thats what I thought it sounded like. The last few posts are pretty right on (in my opinion) Strength work should be secondary to training, which will build sport spec. strength if you are pushing yourself hard. I would try to limit time in the weightroom/gym to under 6 hours a week. This is 3 days of 2 hour sessions. Alot with MMA, training. The reason I suggest a book is because it allows you an expert program for minimal money and time. Eighty percent of the people training in MMA are just ripping off the techniques of a few (Rooney, Hackleman, Johnson, etc.) and passing it off as their own. I also suggest it because at this point from the forum you have 30 contradictory, non-specific recomendations, when it seems like what you are looking for is the opposite, specificity and simplicity.
Whatever you decide I wish you luck and health in the sport.

32

[quote]rundymc wrote:

I call super-bullshit (it’s like bullshit, but it flies). My main training partner when I want to work on technique weighs 140 and doesn’t lift at all. I’m sitting at a soft 185. He’s been at it for 4 years, I have less than 2 years under my belt. I can’t roll him off the mount.

Also, I disagree with your second paragraph, at least in the context of BJJ. I think being weaker than your training partners forces you to work out more elegant methods to counter their strength and improve. I’m stronger than all but one guy in my class and find myself muscling a lot. My 2cents.[/quote]

Don’t use your anecdotal evidence to call “bullshit”. I could give you a bunch to the contrary. You don’t train and condition to train better. You train to be more proficient for a ‘real life’ scenario and/or win competitions. For neither of those cases is being weaker an advantage. If you’re strong, go 10% while rolling, working on technique. When you’re competing, you know, in a match you care about winning, there’s zero argument for saying: “Gee if only I were weaker, I’d have kicked his ass.”

33

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:

I call super-bullshit (it’s like bullshit, but it flies). My main training partner when I want to work on technique weighs 140 and doesn’t lift at all. I’m sitting at a soft 185. He’s been at it for 4 years, I have less than 2 years under my belt. I can’t roll him off the mount.

Also, I disagree with your second paragraph, at least in the context of BJJ. I think being weaker than your training partners forces you to work out more elegant methods to counter their strength and improve. I’m stronger than all but one guy in my class and find myself muscling a lot. My 2cents.[/quote]

Don’t use your anecdotal evidence to call “bullshit”. I could give you a bunch to the contrary. You don’t train and condition to train better. You train to be more proficient for a ‘real life’ scenario and/or win competitions. For neither of those cases is being weaker an advantage. If you’re strong, go 10% while rolling, working on technique. When you’re competing, you know, in a match you care about winning, there’s zero argument for saying: “Gee if only I were weaker, I’d have kicked his ass.”[/quote]

Sorry if I came on too strong. My point was that given an opponent with good technique (my aforementioned training partner, I’m assuming the guys who have several years on you) you’re not going to do things like roll them off the mount or side-mount based primarily on strength. It helps, but technique takes priority.

The rest of your post I agree with. I just did a competition in Bangkok, lost 4 won 6. Virtually everyone I was matched up with was better technically. The matches I won, I outfought my opponents, scrambled like a mofo, threw their legs around, muscled them to the ground, and basically imposed my physicality on them. On the flipside, the one’s I lost were all decisive, and all due to technical deficiency.

34

[quote]rundymc wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:

[quote]rundymc wrote:

I call super-bullshit (it’s like bullshit, but it flies). My main training partner when I want to work on technique weighs 140 and doesn’t lift at all. I’m sitting at a soft 185. He’s been at it for 4 years, I have less than 2 years under my belt. I can’t roll him off the mount.

Also, I disagree with your second paragraph, at least in the context of BJJ. I think being weaker than your training partners forces you to work out more elegant methods to counter their strength and improve. I’m stronger than all but one guy in my class and find myself muscling a lot. My 2cents.[/quote]

Don’t use your anecdotal evidence to call “bullshit”. I could give you a bunch to the contrary. You don’t train and condition to train better. You train to be more proficient for a ‘real life’ scenario and/or win competitions. For neither of those cases is being weaker an advantage. If you’re strong, go 10% while rolling, working on technique. When you’re competing, you know, in a match you care about winning, there’s zero argument for saying: “Gee if only I were weaker, I’d have kicked his ass.”[/quote]

Sorry if I came on too strong. My point was that given an opponent with good technique (my aforementioned training partner, I’m assuming the guys who have several years on you) you’re not going to do things like roll them off the mount or side-mount based primarily on strength. It helps, but technique takes priority.

The rest of your post I agree with. I just did a competition in Bangkok, lost 4 won 6. Virtually everyone I was matched up with was better technically. The matches I won, I outfought my opponents, scrambled like a mofo, threw their legs around, muscled them to the ground, and basically imposed my physicality on them. On the flipside, the one’s I lost were all decisive, and all due to technical deficiency. [/quote]

i agree about strength not being nearly as important…

  1. technique
  2. cardio/specific endurance
  3. mobility/injury prevention/durability
  4. strength/power

that’s just my opinion, but a skilled fighter is going to negate strength and power pretty easily. if you don’t have the cardio to maintain a barrage, the more technical fighter generally weathers the storm, and seizes the inititive when you gas…

i’m a lot stronger than most people i roll with, and almost always get the takedown, either as a double leg or hip throw, and unless i’m able to maintain side control, i’m pretty much SOL. against a new guy i can fluster them with my strength, but vets know that either i’ll burn out, or they can work on position.

i’m not saying to neglect strength, but i don’t think it should be anywhere near a top priority in training for a fighter.

to answer the OP’s question, i’d suggest looking into a couple days per week of complexes and HIIT until you figure out what you need to specifially develop. it will still develop strength, but not at the sake of endurance/mobility…

35

Hey- remember- the OP’s question is about MMA. Not BJJ. So stop focusing on just that.

He is not trying to enter a grappling tournament where you don’t get hurt- he’s entering a real fight, and should be training striking as such as well.

If he focuses too much on lifting and not enough on technique- and not just GRAPPLING technique- he will get laid the fuck out as soon as he steps into the cage.

If it were strictly grappling, I’ll say that strength helps you immensely. I just recently interviewed an incredibly good BJJ black belt who regularly lifts and is very strong, and attributes many of his victories to that.

The idea that being weaker helps in BJJ is retarded.

36

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Hey- remember- the OP’s question is about MMA. Not BJJ. So stop focusing on just that.

He is not trying to enter a grappling tournament where you don’t get hurt- he’s entering a real fight, and should be training striking as such as well.

If he focuses too much on lifting and not enough on technique- and not just GRAPPLING technique- he will get laid the fuck out as soon as he steps into the cage.

If it were strictly grappling, I’ll say that strength helps you immensely. I just recently interviewed an incredibly good BJJ black belt who regularly lifts and is very strong, and attributes many of his victories to that.

The idea that being weaker helps in BJJ is retarded.[/quote]

Well I guess the greatest no gi bjj grappler ever is a “retard.”

37

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

Well I guess the greatest no gi bjj grappler ever is a “retard.”
[/quote]

Yes. And take that shit out of quotes, because it’s damn true.

38

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

Well I guess the greatest no gi bjj grappler ever is a “retard.”
[/quote]

Yes. And take that shit out of quotes, because it’s damn true.[/quote]

No kidding.

39

I would have to say 100% of the top guys UFC, Strikeforce, Belator etc etc strengthtrain in one way or the other. (excluding roy nelson). I mean look at these dudes. They did not get these physiques simply working on technique. Google up some videos of Forrest Griffin, Alistair Overeem, GSP etc. These guys put just as much emphasis under the bar as they do on the mat. When someone of equal or to some respect lesser “clinching” game grabs u up. If he is much strongerv than you, he is going to tear your head off. Especially at the begginer level as in the OP.

I can say without a doubt that staying strong in the gym has helped my striking significantly. Much more power in my punches, kicks, knees, elbows. Stronger more dominant in the clinch. Stronger hips and faster. Being a little bigger doesnt seem to hurt either. When i cover my head to block it leaves less space for punches to slide thru. Just remember to lift in a way to not only get stronger but to remain fast and flexible as well. VERY IMPORTANT.

Ive rolled a little jitz and sparred MMA quite a few times. Trust me…being strong helps.

40

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

Well I guess the greatest no gi bjj grappler ever is a “retard.”
[/quote]

Yes. And take that shit out of quotes, because it’s damn true.[/quote]

Fucking LOL.

Seriously though, who is the “greatest no gi grappler.” Marcelo? Roger, Jacare, Galvao? I know second-hand that both Galvao and Jacare lift religiously.