New Prohormone?

I read something on another site about a new prohormone called 1-AD. It sounds interesting but the source of the info isn’t exactly someone I’d call trustworthy. Bill? Brock? Any info?

I asked the very same question yesterday and it was answered by Chris Shugart himself. Basically, he indicated that it might be a worthwhile product, but beware of the hype, because the guy pitching this product was also singing the praises of androstendione!! He (Chris) indicated that no one knows whether it will actually work as well in humans as it does in rats. Only time will tell.

I sent a more indepth message to the forum, and was lucky enough to get a direct response from Chris Shugart. He gave me an answer from bill to a similar question, and it basically said that it was probably a good product just don’t bet on all the “amazing” gains that this particular supplement designer has stated.

(part two)

Second, there’s a claim given that the “equilibrium” is different for the 1-ene
compounds than for the 4-ene compounds, for
example 4-AD. There’s nothing I can say to
this except that this claim is complete chemical fraud. The equilibrium will be
the same and cannot be anything else.

It’s possible that the rate of conversion
might be higher, but they present no evidence
for that and don’t even claim it, so they
give us no reason (other than the above
fraudulent argument) as to why it should
convert better than 4-AD does.

Third, oral bioavailability for steroids is
generally pretty low unless they are 17-alkylated, or to a lesser extent, 1-alkylated. This compound is neither. They
attempt to claim that it is “like Primobolan” and therefore has oral activity, but Primobolan is 1-alkylated and this compound is not, so,
well, what else would we expect, this is another fraudulent claim.

Now, oral bioavailability may by chance be better than with oral 4-AD. It equally well could be worse. We won’t know till the product
is out there and people are using it. If results are dramatic as with Androsol, then we know it works… or if results are modest, blood tests will prove whether or not conversion is better than with 4-AD.

What about muscle-building results?

Well, the only evidence of such results
is the assertion from the seller that he’s
seen amazing things. But of everyone in the prohormone industry, he’s the original boy that cried wolf. I would not take his statements on muscle-building results seriously…
after all, he claimed dramatic muscle gains for oral 4-AD too. I recall
him posting on the Internet about a policeman quickly gaining 20 lb of
muscle (or perhaps it was 25 lb) from his oral 4-AD. For that matter, he
claimed good muscle gains for androstenedione back when he was selling
that, and we know by now that that product doesn’t work. Basically, he’s proven repeatedly he’ll sell stuff that doesn’t work while claiming that it does.

So his word means nothing on that matter, as I’ve also experienced with
him on other matters.

And by the way, when the product comes out,
the pure product will be absolutely tasteless.
If the product being sold is bitter, let alone
intensely-bitter as other products from this company have been, you have your proof right there that they are selling impure product. Their lack of chemical engineering skills and
lack of concern for quality are appalling. (I’ve found that a mere water wash can clean away a lot of the noxious crap from some of their previous products, thus proving that they did not even bother with a water wash before
packaging and selling it for you to use.)

Yes, you could say I have a dim view of this individual and his company. It’s a view they have more than earned.

It’s an interesting idea that may or may not work… we can’t know from
the word of this guy, but once athletes start using it, it will be easy to
see whether it works well or not.

I have to agree with your assessment that
the source isn’t exactly trustworthy.

Nonetheless, it may be a good product by
chance. After all, even a broken clock is
right twice a day.

I hadn’t known that the 1-ene steroids were
natural products until Bill Llewelyn told me confidentially about it some time
back, and I believe it was his idea. Naturally that ruled out my doing
anything with it – I assumed he was going to. I would have thought it worth looking into.

There some very serious problems with the
claims being made for this compound by
its seller.

First, there’s a claim that the compound
that some fraction of it converts to, 17b-hydroxy-androst-1-ene-3one, which they fraudulently call 1-testosterone, is 7 times
more potent than testosterone. Thing is,
while I haven’t gone and rechecked the
number recently – the figure is probably
about right – they’re not telling you that
this potency is in a rat assay that is proven
to be a pretty poor predictor. It’s not even
of a skeletal muscle in the rat. It’s not
at all unusual for a steroid to perform much
less well at building muscle in man than it
does in the rat assay – e.g., Deca and Primo,
which are both more potent than testosterone
in the rat assay, or Winstrol, which is
stunningly more potent than testosterone in
the rat assay. What I’m saying is, this number
is no proof and not even good evidence that
even when injected this compound is going to
be as potent as teststerone, let alone many
times more potent as they claim.

(continued)

What, the mod doesn’t allow positive comments about 1-AD???

Mike, as it happens, I’m moderating this evening where I can (I usually
don’t moderate) because of Chris being at the Arnold.

It’s not that “positive comments” regarding 4-AD are being censored.

How would you have anything positive anyway, by the way, not having
used it nor having any data on it?

What is “censored” is as according to the general policy that
competitors are not to be slammed by name. Granted, the “positive”
post in question didn’t slam them, but if the name is provided
then in effect the other posts slamming them ARE slamming them
by name.

When 1-AD comes out, if forum readers find it works for them
then most certainly their posts will be posted, as with other
such things. E.g., the recent posts saying some specific ecdysterones
work.

But my understanding of how we do things, and therefore my way
of doing it tonight, is that we don’t slam competitors by name,
and also there’s no point in simply regurgitating, without adding
any personal experience, the in-this-case-dubious claims
another company is making in their ads. That really just does
not add anything… better to just read the ads striaght from the
source rather than read a second-hand account of the ads.

so (and this is just out of curiousity) what enzyme would this product supposedly use to convert to test? would it be the 3HSD that 4-AD uses or a different enzyme? if the product really did work, you could stack the products to get more of a testosterone boosting effect much like when everyone was obsessed with the dione/diol stack. (of course we know now which is next to worthless). if this suppliment really did work, it might be worth trying…i know i am sounding very optimistic here. BTW, did any of you guys see a prohormone a while back (can’t remember who makes it) that supposedly converts to d-bol? is that a load of crap or has the fda already yanked this off the market?

Oh, and on the nomenclature thing: as mentioned before, what this compound converts to is not any kind of testosterone.

But the correct full name I gave for it is obviously
rather long.

A correct shorthand name for it would be
DHT-1-ene.

Don’t panic, there’s nothing wrong with being
a DHT derivative, but that’s what this is:
not a testosterone derivative, but a DHT
derivative.

Same thing really as what Rush mentioned: another
company claiming that their prohormone
converted to “Dianabol” when it didn’t… I guess there are no new tricks under the sun.

You wouldn’t call the source reliable? To each his own, but I think he is one of the most honest men in the buisness.

has anybody bothered to check the references listed,the author actually invites everybody to investigate his claims,in my personal opinion i hope this is legit,but you never know when the almighty dollar is concerned.

Wojo, I haven’t read them yet, but it’s certain that none of
them show anabolic effect in man when taken orally (this
can be judged from the titles.) I will read them in depth
shortly.

B, that’s an interesting claim and I wonder what your basis
is? Did you ever have a dealing with him where he had the
opportunity to lie and get away with it, to his great
advantage, but he bit the bullet and told the truth? I have and
let’s just say the results didn’t turn out that way. Several
times.

On the other hand, if you’re talking about
whether he says he’s honest and has integrity,
and that no one else does, then yes, he has
said that about himself more often than
anyone else in the industry that I can think of.

But this is irrelevant. The person does not matter: what
counts is whether the product works or not, which will
become apparent after it has gotten onto the market.

I’ve had no personal dealings with him - at least no more than a few eMails. I’m sure no one’s perfect, but I never seen him make exaggerated claims for any of the produts he sells. Thats a relief in a buisness where each new supplement can supposedly put on x amount of pounds in two weeks.

But anyway, I’ve read about 1-AD (both sides) and I’m willing to give it a try.

B, perhaps you haven’t been following
the prohormone story right from the beginning
as I have. You say there are no exaggerated
claims from this individual, but fact is,
he sold androstenedione and promoted it as
being something that helped add muscle,
and did the same with oral-4-AD.

You have a real issue (judging from your
other post) regarding what we say about
Androsol, but you neglect that this individual
posted (to a Usenet newsgroup) that his oral-4-AD, when that was his flagship product, had given gains of 20 or 25 pounds.

Bless you if you can tell whether a man is honest without having ever seen the issue put to the test. Personally, I don’t think that
testimony that a man is honest means anything
unless you’ve seen him be honest in a difficult situation. I’ve seen the opposite several times
so I really cannot agree with your statement.

However I REALLY do not want to talk about
this anymore. This should not be about people,
it’s about the product and whether it works,
and I’ve given some substantive discussion
of that and it comes down to, it will be found
out whether it works and how well only after
it has gotten to the market and people have used it. Your debating that the seller is honest, and me saying why I consider him not
to be, is absolutely irrelevant to the real
question. So let’s drop it, please.

I have been following the prhormone issue from the beginning, although I didn’t recall that exact #s gained were used.

Remeber, I didn’t start talking about the person not the product - the initial post took a shot at him. Regardless of your own experience, I, and most of the “community” of ours have at least some respect for the man.

Anyway, enough is enough, I said my part, you said yours. We’re each probably partly right.

And I’m spent.

FYI -
Apparently there’s another company marketing an ‘Equipoise’ precursor (1, 4-ANDROSTADIEN-3, 17-DIONE). Its of course an oral.

I’m back!!! Anyhow, decided to chime in
here about 1-AD after hearing from Bill and
“that individual” who makes 1-AD.

I think it would be both premature and
irresponsible to say it sucks and by the
same token, to say it rocks.

Only time and extensive use/testing will tell
if this is something worthy or something
crappy.

I don’t have time to test it personally
as I have far too much on my plate now.

I do wish that individual selling 1-AD the
best of luck with that endeavor however, I
am confident that whether it works or not,
Bill’s new goodies will smoke it anyhow :slight_smile:

Just my two cents.

Brock

Personally, I’m going to wait for the inevitable early adopters to try out and comment on 1-AD before I give it a shot. In any event, the price could stand to come down a bit. I’m not squeamish about price if the efficacy is good enough – in fact, I’ll be doing an ~8 week cycle of transdermal and intranasal 4-AD soon, which will run a bit of money – but at $1 per 100 mg the price of 1-AD is a bit high.

As a side note, a considered-reliable source from the same company posted a comment in a certain usenet group regarding 1-AD efficacy. In sum, a serious hardgainer was given an undislosed daily dose of 1-AD for six weeks and gained eight lbs. along with some good strength increases.

I’m not affiliated with this other company, just an interested observer. Besides, if 1-AD is indeed efficacious, I would be interested to see what Biotest could do with it as far as improvements go…

What about opening tha caps and making something like a 1-androsol?
thanks

I upped my dosage of 1-ad yesterday to 3 caps at one time, I also took 2 caps of 4-ad. About two hours later I went to take a dump and felt a tingling in my johnson. The tingling didn’t go away and then pre-cum shot out. For the next two hours I was dripping. Then I was fine, until today when I did the same thing. Drip, Drip, Drip.