Check out enforcegraphics.com for caliper information and use the 3 site male equation because you will be able to take all of those measurements yourself on a regular basis.
Bill, since you’ve brought up the EC ester component, I have 2 questions I’ve seen on other boards but don’t know the answer to. What studies or evidences were there for the EC ester that suggests it gives a 100% oral effectiveness to the two substances of Mag-10? And why aren’t phramaceutical companies all over the EC ester technology for 100% oral effectiveness for other products, too? (I asked Brock; he told me to ask you).
You’re not going to find published studies at this time because it’s a Biotest invention, patents applied for. Others had not done this before. (There’s always a first time for everything.)
There will be published independent studies from a major university (not the University of Florida.)
Bill, have you gleaned any MAG-10 feedback on a comparison of gains between the first and second two week cycles (with a two week break in between)? I went from 195 to 207 on my first cycle. If I could repeat those gains in this next cycle – good night – I’d be ecstatic. But is that a realistic expectation? Any data on this?
Thanks, Bill! That’s kinda what Brock said–that it would all be explained in the patent materials–but he suggested I should ask you for better details. So far, nothing is listed online at the US Patent Office as a recent Biotest application, but we’re patient! Good luck with the studies.
I don’t know about what Bill has come up with, but I can share my own experience in this regard. In my first two week cycle, I put on 12 pounds (8.25 LBM, 3.75 fat). Immediately after the cycle ended, I dropped 5 lbs. of what I assumed was water right away (lower carbs, bowel movement after last weigh-in, etc.). By the time I had finished the two off weeks, I had dropped 6.5 lbs. of the 12 I had put on during the double sessions, and only about .5 lbs. of it was fat. Now, I’m three days from the end of my second two weeks (this time with once per day training and without the extra 15% calories), and I’ve gained 8 lbs, with less than .5 lbs. fat. Summarily, I gained 12, lost 6.5, and now am going to gain about 9 on my second cycle. Two things I’ve realized: the calorie calculation in the two-a-day Growth Surge overestimated my needs, and I need to do a better job in the week after my cycle to maintain my gains. Right now, I’ve only netted any extra 1.5 lbs. from where I was after my first cycle ended. So, basically, from two cycles, I’ve gotten just under 12 lbs. of LBM, and just over 3 lbs. of fat. In other words, great product, but I made a bonehead move dropping the calories and adding in too much cardio on off weeks. You live, you learn. Hope this helps. Good luck.
That is a directly honest and very well summarized account. It’s amazing how the paradigm shifts. Here we are, discussing the gain of “only” 12 pounds of LBM in about a month. And I know how you feel. I once made significant strength and size gains (for me) on Nandrosol over a five week stint, and then I got the equally boneheaded notion to go on a severe, cardio-included cutting phase. Sure, I got lean, but my upper body mass took a big hit. My bench dropped from a PR of 11 reps at 225 to about 7 reps at 205. I really needed to take more time to establish those gains. When you hit a personal record with body comp, weight, or with reps, it’s as much an opportunity as it is an achievement. At some points up the mountain, you hunker down, set up camp, and wait for the sunrise. I’ve held all my reps and gains from my first MAG-10 cycle as a direct result of my previous error, and I’ve got a feeling you will too.
I forgot to mention a few things that go along with “only” adding 12 lbs. of LBM. My measurement gains were as follows: 3/8" calves, 1.25" quads, 3/8" forearms, 3/4" biceps, 1" chest, 1/2" neck, and, of course, 1/4" waist! Also, although I lost some weight betweeen cycles, these measurements were the same when I took them before starting my second cycle. I haven’t had a chance to take them since then, but I know that I’ve added to them appreciably (only checked biceps and forearms, and they were 1/2" and 1/4", respectively). As odd as it may sound, though, I really can’t see the difference at all. I guess I’ll just have to wait until I lean out in a few weeks to see (I’m currently 11.3%). By the way, any suggestions for me other than the typical stuff as far holding onto muscle during off-weeks? You said you’ve been through it, so I’d love to hear anything you have to offer. I’m thinking about lifting four days a week and doing five 20-minute cardio sessions of low intensity (four after lifting, one separate). Also, I think I’ll be using a 40/30/30 Protein/Carb/Fat breakdown. Thanks for the thoughts.
Steve, I can really only give you a good
answer for results from pharmaceutical anabolic steroid cycles. In these cases,
the retained gains from a second cycle
are generally about as good as from the first,
or looked at alternately, the peak result
relative to just before the cycle is improved about as much as the same comparison for the first cycle.
I suppose in principle gains should be less
on the second cycle since starting LBM is
higher, but in practice, the difference is
apparently too small to be (informally
speaking) statistically significant. Other
factors, such as probably having learned something about diet and training while “on”
from the first cycle, apparently overshadow
any expected slowing.
It’s not till later cycles, like at least
the 3rd or 4th, that gains usually noticeably slow down.
Eric, I’m reluctant to advise because I’m not sure what I did right to hold my gains. Some of it was counter-intuitive. I didn’t change a single thing once I was off. Trained exactly the same (five to six times a week, once a day, same volume). I ate exactly the same stuff (garbage, really – a “Skinny Bastard” diet higher in starches. My Excel spreadsheets say I averaged 350 g /day of protein, and much of that was “floor swept” whey). Once off cycle, I determined to move the very same weight, come hell or high water, but happily (just like you, if it’s the same Eric), my strength actually bumped up post cycle. I wish there was more of a revelation in all that. Your plan looks good to me. Have you ever tried leaning up without any cardio at all? You could try the first week to ten days without it, just as an experiment. Your cardio seems to obligate you to five days’ training when you could have three full days off otherwise. Personally, I need to eat more than 30% carbs post-cycle, but you know your genetics by now. Look forward to tracking your progress if you keep posting.
Bill, Started my second phase Monday with 400+ grams of protein and 500+ in carbs. But the total caloric intake less that what I had calculated. Should I keep at the 5000 calorie number or just shoot for the 400/500 number that you suggested earlier, which is around 4300 calories?
Thanks!
I believe the Mag-10 Plan for Success said to eat at least 500g carbs. Just bump em up (protein too if you want).
Hi. I have been reading T-mag for quite a while and I found it to be one of the only worthwhile sources for info available online or otherwise. Recently I ordered 3 bottles of Mag-10 and I had ordered 3 bottles of tribex-500 which I have been taking with 10 grams of creatine a day and MD-6 pre workout. Is it ok to take MD-6 to help boost my energy for working out? Also I wanted some tips on how to best use the Mag-10 to get the most out of my gains. I am 5ft7 153pnds bp 275 3x down from 167pnds bp 335 3x about 6 mos ago when I was using juice. I have since been clean for 7 months and I am excited about the possibilites of Mag-10 since so many supplements have broken promises. What routine/diet should i go with and how often should i take mMag-10 and at what dose? I looke forward to your advice. Thanks Guys!
Joe, read the The MAG-10 Plan for Success and the other article mentioned in the first post above to answer your questions. MD6 is okay to use, but don’t use it if you’re already skinny. Try Powerdrive or some type of non metabolism booster pre-workout. Actually, Powerdrive is the only one I can think of!
Joe, the most important thing is to get a minimum of 400 grams of protein and 500 grams of CHO a day. You can try 2 doses on day one, spread out by 12 hours, then one dose each day thereafter. Timing of each dose is not that critical, since there is a delay in action of the supplement. You should follow something along the lines of Berardi and Shugart’s training program, although I just worked out once a day, 5-6 days a week. I don’t believe there is a problem with using an ephedrine/caffeine product as long as it is only prior to workouts, and you continue to forcefeed yourself liquid nutrition during/after your workout.
Joe, MD6 jacks me up big time. But the spike in energy and focus does fade with continued use (though, I’m told, the fat-bruning benefits remain the same). For me the first three weeks are the best. Your mileage may vary, but you might want to plan your MD6 to coincide with a particularly challenging segment in your training plan. (And like TEK said, we’re assuming a reasonable bodyfat here.) Also, be advised that MD6 can cut down on your craving for carbs, so if the MAG-10 calorie suggestions aren’t well within reach, MD6 may make it even harder to eat enough.
I’ve already decided to cut back on the cardio for the first off week. Last time, I did about 1-1.5 hrs. per week in hopes of leaning out too quickly. I usually do best with cardio when dieting, but in that case I definitely introduced it too quickly. Instead, I plan to train 4-5 times per week (either 2-on, 1-off, 3-on, 1-off or 2-on, 1-off, repeat). I will only do 10-15 minutes of cardio after my weight sessions twice per week, and might throw in a 30 minute on later on to assist in recovery. I’ve already worked out my maintenance calories for all the scenarios based on my experiences with Massive Eating (the formula overestimates my needs by about 200), so it’s just a matter of plugging in the numbers to the Excel spreadsheet. Today was my last day of “on.” Since yesterday was an off-day, I just went balls to the wall on chest and arms today, and I only plan to take a day off instead of the recommended two before hitting the weights again on Friday (I’ll take Saturday off, too, and then get back into the routine). Hopefully, by keeping calories up, I’ll reap some of the residual effects of the Mag-10. I’ve always responded better to higher training frequencies, so I agree with you that it’s important to train as you normally would. Basically, I am going to weight myself every morning and make sure it doesn’t drop at all for the first week. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I’ll keep you posted.
Sounds very good. We’re similar in that we both respond to high frequency. A lot of times logic tells me I’m overtraining, and most T-mag articles would agree, but when I look at my training log, I’m gaining weight and adding reps. (In fact, I almost posted a question like, “Is it possible to overtrain and still gain?” But it sounded too oxymoronic. Or just moronic.) Everyone says after a lay-off you come back refreshed. At times I’ve sensed that, but just as often, I sense a loss of momentum. Anyway, it’s cool that you hit it hard today, coming off your cycle. I added two and a half more pounds in my first four days OFF. I was thunderstruck. I’ve been off now fourteen days, and this afternoon was the first time I noticed the faintest sign of being off (and that was by sight – my poundages held, and I stole two more reps in an intermediate set of squats). Yeah, keep posting. And by the way, nice comeback from your hospital stay.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the residual effects after the cycle is over. My weights didn’t change much the first time around with the two-a-days, probably because of the increased frequency. Then, three days later, I added 25 pounds to my best front squat, and I’ve continued improving it since (the bruises on my anterior delts are clear proof!). I’m definitely feeling sore this morning after yesterday, so I might wind up taking the extra day depending on how I feel tomorrow morning. I plan to follow the do mostly supersets for the next two weeks, although I’m not sure I’ll be doing it with opposing muscle groups. Thanks for the props on the comeback; if I ever get around to setting up a website, I’ll post the pics, cuz the originals are nothing short of scary and the change is incredible. Oh yeah, final stats: 9 lbs. LBM, 1/2 lb. fat. I’m sure that I’ll drop 2-3 lbs. of water over the next day or two, but I’m definitely psyched (bodyfat actually went from 11.7% to 11.3%). Later, buddy.
I loked at Powerdrive and from what it has in it it doesnt seem like it will give me the KICK that a supplement like MD-6 does or another ECA stack before I work out. Will MD-6 or an ECA only pre-workout hurt me that bad since now I feel it helps me more because I can work out longer. Also I noticed that in the Plan For Success it recommends twice a day for Mag-10 is this necessary and what would be the difference only taking it once a day? By the way thanks Drew and Steve!!!