(re: sublingual)
Isn’t the size of the molecule the determining factor as to whether a solution is absorbed sublingually? If this is true, I’m surprised that you guys at Biotest could disagree on the value of holding MAG-10 under the tongue, since you would know whether or not the MAG-10 molecules are small enough to be absorbed.
Could someone provide me with some references on 17-hydroxyandrost-1-ene-3-one or Androst-1-ene which show that it is 2-3 times more anabolic than testosterone? . I am assuming that the information precedes MEDLINE as I could not find any information there. Any references on the anabolic potency of 4-AD would be appreciated as well.
The Journal of Organic Chemistry Volume 27 (1062) pages 248-251 by Counsel, Klimstra and Colton. It’s titled “Anabolic agents. Derivatives of 5a-Androst-1-ene.”
This is where they evaluated both 5a-Androst-1-ene but some derivatives as well. They also made some chemical alterations to see if it’d affect potency.
Bill Roberts posted the following in another MAG-10 thread. That thread is about to drop off the forum, so I thought I’d paste it for you and anyone else who might have missed it, if the MOD allows:
If you plot (actually, do multiple regression) the time course of reported gains from the previous MAG-10 thread you find with relatively low standard error that it fits the equation of, I don't recall, approximately:
Wt gain = 3 + 0.5 lb/day
So yes, your first week looks remarkably good, because it’s not just 0.5 lb/day but also a new 3 lb that you didn’t have before. Whereas the
second week looks not as good, because you also had those 3 lb the previous week.
I expect those 3 lb evaporate after the cycle. If you experience no apparent LBM loss, then I think what’s happening is that there was a
continued growth of 3 lb of muscle while losing 3 lb of this glycogen and glycogen-associated water.
So in other words, those 3 lb don’t, I think, accrue from cycle to cycle. Doing 10 brief cycles won’t add 30 lb in that manner – if you get 30 lb it will be from the daily LBM increases, not the sum of these initial jumps.
Kenny - you make some excellant points. I was taking (stopped) Vioxx in the morning, preworkout. I am asking a friend of mine to do a study on Vioxx and muscle protein synthesis, it may take awhile as IRBs do not act expediently and Kevin may have other projects, but I will get it done.
Razor, I don’t think whether it can be absorbed sublingually is the issue. There’s no argument over that. Apparently, it can. The arguement is, is there any need to since it’ll all get absorbed anyway if you just swallow it. So what’s the point of holding it under your tongue? Bill has also said that to get the best workout effect, you should take it many hours before the workout, so why worry if you can get a little of it into the bloodstream faster. Anyway, I’m sure Bill will jump in here soon and set us straight.
Smitty,
I did a bottle of Tribex and began to get a few pipples on my face. I pointed them out to my wife, and she reminded me that it was probably because of some supplement that I was taking. I didn’t make the connection until she reminded me, therefore I know it wasn’t in my head. Yet it does proove that it effects your hormone levels.
Hey Bill,
I’m very impressed to see you take the time to read, and reply to, all these posts. I’d say I’ve done very well with Mag-10 so far, and I started my second two week cycle about a week ago. I will be going to Jamaica in about 8 weeks, and my question is this: How long after a Mag-10 cycle, if I’m taking Tribex (and maybe M too), do I need to wait to cut my carbs a bit to lose some extra bodyfat? I’m at about 14% right now, and would really like to be at or below 10% by March 9th.
Also, do you see any real benefit to using Mag-10 while trying to lose bodyfat on a negative-calorie balance diet? I’m considering using my last bottle around the end of February, while losing about 2 lbs/week (and keeping my protein intake at at least 400g), if I still need to lose quite a bit at that point. Thanks!
Frank, I’m convinced it’s important to
keep calories up to maintenance for at least
one week after the end of the cycle, else
retention of gains does suffer. There may
be some benefit to allowing a second week
of maintenance calories when it comes to
strength but it’s a more subtle effect if
real.
On your diet, I really would recommend
not keeping protein that high (400 grams.)
Unlike the situation when trying to gain
muscle, keeping protein moderate (for example
1 gram per day per lb LBM) and allowing
the difference in calories to go to fat
and/or carbs gives better results than
keeping protein that high and having to
reduce fat and/or carbs to compensate
for the extra protein calories.
On day 6 of Steroid Dieting using Mag-10 at 1 dose per day. Already have dropped 8.75 lbs, but I don’t know how much of that is water. The mirror sure does motivate me to push forward though.
Cy Wilson and Bill Roberts, thanks for giving so much insight into what would otherwise be an arduous task.
Ok, if we’re supposed to keep the calories up finishing the 2 weeks on MAG10 are we supposed to be eating massive eating style or the way we used to while on???
Thanks
I’d just keep calories to maintenance.
And – I don’t know how the idea got
started in the first place, but I guess
something on T-mag triggered it – Massive
Eating isn’t a steroid nutrition plan
anyway, and isn’t the best way to go while
on MAG-10. The best way to go, in my opinion,
is the plan given for MAG-10: 400 g protein
per day, 500 g carbs, and low fat.
What’s the least amount of MAG-10 I could use when dieting to help preserve muscle?
Well, benefit is basically proportional
to dose except where dose becomes high.
So the question is not precisely answerable.
For example, 1/10 a dose per day would
still be of some benefit, but probably
only 1/10 or so as much benefit as a full dose.
But so far as “quite noticeable” benefit,
I’d think half a dose per day (3/4 cap) would
be the least I’d want to use when dieting, myself, to achieve a benefit I’d consider quite noticeable.
The Massive Eating diet is mentioned in the “MAG-10 Plan for Success”. “If you want a specific program for eating big, log onto T-mag.com and check out the following articles:
Massive Eating,and G-S Project 1,2 &3.”
Do you recomend 400g. protein and 500g. carbs for everyone, or do you need to base it on your wight and bodycomp?
hi bill i have been using mag 10 for 3 weeks at 2 dose 1st week and 1 dose for weeks 2 and 3. Now i’ve gained around 9 pounds of lbm how much of the mass can i retain when i start to come off my maintinace diet ?
re:Krak
I don’t know if anyone has addressed this but It seems to me that one way to stretch it out is to use one dose only just before your workout, to coincide with the maximum amount of growth and repair.
Well, an unfortunate thing has happened. I’m at the end of my second Mag-10 cycle, and I’ve only gained five pounds, three or four of which is fat, and my strength has not increased in two weeks. I hate to say it, but I only gained about three pounds of LBM on the first cycle and maybe one pound on the second. For me, that’s not worth $200. Thank you for trying Biotest, but it’s seems that prohormones just NEVER work for me. Time to try a Finasol cycle.
I too did not do well on Mag-10 my first cycle, having gained 6lbs. with half being fat. My diet and training were right on as well. I start my second cycle next week, and this time I’m going to use 2 doses a day just to see if that makes a difference. (something I didn’t want to have to do)
And Bill, as for not knowing how massive eating got recommended with mag-10, it’s in Tim’s Mag-10 plan for success every week on here.
Hi Bill, I would just like to second Rex’s question above where he asks if the 400 gram pro and 500 gram carb are global figures and apply to everyone. I start my Mag ten cycle on Sat and was just wondering because I’m 175 at 9-9.5% bf . I was wondering if that might be too much…especially with alot of others recently reporting high fat gains and nothing special in the LBM department. Also if you would…is there a reason for people to be not having that great of results with Mag ten…they say that their diets are tight…so i’m just wondering…guess I’m just getting nervous because this was a hefty investment at $200…I just want to make sure i didn’t fall prey to just hype.Thank you very much for your help Bill, Mike