Just finished week 2 of mag-10. I am dieting I maintained the same weight in the second week as the first week 196lbs, but I am definitely leaner, and happy that my weight stayed constant, which means I added muscle. sorry I have not been measuring myself, though I should, but by being honest with yourself on looks should be decent. I still have another 2-3 weeks to get to bodyfat% I want, but so far so good. my dosage for the first two weeks was a little more than a serving per day with a loading doase day one.I was 200 at the beinging of week one.(5’8"). Tomorrow I add fina, mainly for the cns stimulant effect.
Bill, like Eric, I thought we were to use the ideas in the Massive Eating format while using MAG-10 (phase 2). So are we to stick to the 40-50% carb., 30-40% Protein, fat around the 20% mark, while keeping caloric intake high?
Sorry for the confusion…
Blackjack, I was curious about your last post referencing Tribex as giving you a “hard on” but not boosting testosterone. How do you know it’s not boosting T and what do you think is causing your increased hard ons? You said you’r 42 and I’m 44 and from my experience, people our age can start to have naturually flagging T and it is people our age in that situation that seem to benefit most from supps like tribex which can boost T from low normal to high normal giving you hard ons just like a horny 17 year old again. T is what causes you to be horny resulting in hard ons. Just my experience though. No supp of that type is going to boost you beyond high normal but a lot of people are low normal so they benefit by restoring T to teenage levels. I’m guessing it won’t work for everybody though. I was just puzzled what could be causing hard ons if it wasn’t increased horniness from increased T. Also, like most supps I’ve found the effect greastest for the first few weeks on tribex then your body seems to adjust so I find it needs to be cycled for best results just as a lot of other supps do.
I have a question about stacking a product with Mag-10. The product is called DLM (DL Methylthiobutyric acid), and is made by Sandco International Inc. I can’t seem to find any information on this product, or the ingredient. Do you know anything about this product? I would like to take 3 of them 30 minutes before a workout, and 3 more immediately after. At night and in the morning, I would like to take 5ml of Mag-10 (10ml/day), but 10ml twice on the first day (20ml). Growth Surge 2 meal plan, training for strength and size 5 days on, one day off (with 1 or 2 twice-a-days thrown in). I’m 23, 5’7, 185# 13%bf. I’d like to know what you think about DLM, and if I can use it in this cycle as outlined. My friend has some and he thinks it’s great, but he got a bunch free. He gave me as much as I want. Thanks for any info you can dig up, or recommendations to my program.
Blackjack, I’m glad M seems to be working
so well for you. I don’t think from any
of the ingredients that there’s any reason
at all to expect any adverse “rebound”
effect from discontinuance, nor has that been noted. There certainly seems to be no reason to not use long term if it seems beneficial to you.
Rex, the idea is to get 400 g protein, 500 g CHO, and a 'lil bit of essential fats in the mix. That should get you close to 4000 kcals, and if your maintenance caloric intake is >3000 kcal/day, then you need to up the protein and carbs accordingly to get a 1000 kcal surplus.
Heb- Thanks for the feedback. It’s true that increased testosterone can certainly lead to increased erections, but this isn’t the way most libido products work. Most, including for instance Viagra, increase blood flow to the penis by manipulating nitric oxide levels or acting as direct vasodialators, etc. This process shouldn’t actually make you hornier but in practice it does because walking around with a hard-on all day will make one think about sex. Tribulus products like Tribex may increase T levels but the increased erections almost certainly are not a direct result of this (and the little research on Tribulus out there supports this). I look for other things to determine if my T levels are up like oily skin and, most importantly, changes in body composition. M can increase T levels in 2 ways: first, vitex (the herb in M) inhibits prolactin levels and prolactin inhibits LH and LH increases testosterone production at the testes. Secondly, lowering estrogen levels will often signal the body to produce more testosterone. Of course, lowering estrogen produces body composition benefits for males beyond just increasing T. I’m generally pretty skeptical about supplements, and I probably haven’t been taking M long enough to discount placebo effects (and I was stacking it with Methoxy after my Mag-10 cycle thus adding to the confusion), but the mirror doesn’t lie. I may have had high E levels to start with and this may be the main benefit I am seeing. I doubt my T was too low because my sex drive has never really decreased and because I am a naturally muscular guy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if M has kicked my T levels up a notch or two. Anyway, for those that would say that M is not a T booster, I would argue that it’s method of action in this regard is probably better understood than most natural T boosters. Again, for those older lifters on the fence about this product, I would urge them to try it because I’m a level headed guy and I’m quite sure I’m seeing significant changes in my body composition.
Thanks for the information and ideas. My maintenance requirements are around 4320, after adding the recomended 15% it comes about 4 shy of 5000 kcal a day. I remember reading somewhere the protein should be 2x bodyweight, for me this is 300g. I will then fill in the carbs at 50% or so then rest is fat. Are we still to follow the Appetite for Consrtuction diet model of first 3-4 meals P+C, then afternoon evening only P+F, or is it best to mix as in the Stagger idea?
As far as Cox 2 and muscle growth I am not sure. However, Doug, you did post this study back in Issue 154 on using tylenol and advil after a workout. “In a pretty cool study, researchers examined the effects of ibuprofen and/or acetaminophen (Advil and Tylenol respectively) on muscle protein metabolism and soreness post exercise (5). Twenty-four males trained and either received the maximal dosage of Advil (2400 mg), Tylenol (4000 mg) or a placebo. In short, the study found that either ibuprofen or acetaminophen decreased/suppressed skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Additionally, neither had any effect on muscle soreness. The take home message: avoid taking ibuprofen or acetaminophen after you exercise, it very well may negate your gains!”
Now I realize that advil and tylenol block both the COX 1 and 2 enzymes, whereas VIOXX blocks just the COX 2. However, both of them would be preventing inflammation by inhibiting COX 2. I am not aware of the role inflammation has on muscle growth but it may be significant. If anyone else understands the biochemistry involved here I would like to here from them.
Blackjack, Thanks for the reply. Had a couple comments. With regard to Tribex, you indicated it didn’t seem to help you but you also indicated you felt you had naturally high T. Being 44 myself, I feel my T has started to decline over the years as probably a lot of middle age men find. I believe due to experience that tribex probably won’t boost T over high normal, there for, if you have naturally high T to begin with, you’ll probably see no further benefit. But myself with low T, I definately see a improvement and feel its probably boosting me from low normal to high normal but don’t think it could boost any one beyond high normal. And I definately know its not placebo effect because when I start a tribex cycle, I always get a few zits on my shoulders and sometimes even 1 or 2 on my face and at my age, I never ever normally get zits (though it was a problem in my teens). I also notice more energy during work outs and usually have better work outs. I also feel hornier like a teen but the effect seems to subside after a couple weeks so I cycle tribex approximately 3 on 2 off. Tribex must not work for you as you already have high T and I doubt tribex will boost it any higher and that is probably why it seems to work for some and not others.
Also I have to comment on viagra. Though i’ve never had to use it, I doubt it will make you horny just by increasing blood flow to the penis and doubt you’ll get a hard on without the sexual stimulation of sexy woman, there for, the viagra or incresed blood flow (though necessary) is not what causes the horniness - its the stimulation of the woman or situation. I guess i’m just trying to say that its the hormones, not the increased blood flow that makes one horny and produces an erection (though of course you must be capable of increased blood flow). Just my thoughts though. And with regards to vitex - I was confused by your statement that vitex inhibits prolactin which in turn inhibits LH and since we all know LH is needed to cause the testes to produce T, how does decreased LH cause an increase in T? Could you elaborate? If indeed this is the case, would to big a dose of vitex be defeating the purpose? Would definately want to know more about that and the effect of various dosages of vitex. To conclude, from my experience, tribex makes me feel hornier like a teen and gives me zits but effect wears off in couple weeks and vitex makes me feel more aggresive. Definately a difference for me between the 2 supps. In fact, larger dose of vitex makes me feel aggressive to the point of feeling kinda mean. Weird effect. Anyway, please respond on how vitex works and in particular, at different dosages.
Blackjack, in rereading the original posts, I realize I misread and misunderstood your statement on vitex inhibiting prolactin which inhibits LH and now realized that less prolactin would allow more LH and in turn more T. My mistake. Would like to hear your comments though on other items discussed.
After thinking about my previous statement on COX inhibitors and inflammation I would like to correct one point. Tylenol inhibits prostaglandin synthesis mostly in the CNS but little in the periphery, so it would have little effect on the inflammation in muscle tissue. It must somehow inhibit muscle growth (according to the study mentioned by Doug) by some other mechanism than inhibiting muscular inflammation. It would be interesting to see a study on COX 2 inhibitors to see if they have this same effect. Any insight would be appreciated.
I think the most important question in the world for me, right now is: what the hell is DLM? (see a previous post in this thread) I can’t believe that no one that I EVER ask knows anything about this product. Even the company that sells it can’t explain how it works. The only reason I’m trying it, is because my friend said it works awesome. Can’t you guys at Biotest dig up anything on DLM?? Soon I will give up my quest, because I have yet to get a response about the product.
Hi I am at the end of my first 2 week cycle of MAG10. I dont feel that I was able to add enough Carbs to my diet and as a result only gained 7 lbs LBM with a 2% drop in BF levels. Im following the MAG10 Plan for Success Nutrition guidelines, and I used the Growth surge pt 2 formula for my calorie needs… I was at 420+ EVERY day of my cycle. But I hovered around 420 or so with respect to carbs. I figured that I needed to supplement my carb intake. I did a search on the net and Twinlabs offers “Carb Fuel” it contains, and I quote… “Mixed with water, each serving supplies 80 grams of carbohydrates from glucose polymers and crystalline pure fructose (no high fructose corn syrups are present).”
Each serving is 320 calories and 80G Carbos…
Can anyone give me any advice? Thank you.
Heb, thanks for the feedback. This is why I like speaking with guys my age and older (I learn things). It sounds like Tribex really does work for you. The acne is a pretty good sign that your T is up as are positive body composition gains. In fact, you’ve convinced me to give Tribex another try (although probably not right away because I want to see how M works over the next few months). Having said that, research shows that the erections that Tribulus produces are not a result, or at least not just a result, of increased T but also are related to increased blood flow down there (I agree with a lot of what you said about women being the real stimulating factor but things like “full bladder” erections show that other factors can certainly lead to erections as well). I do think my T levels are naturally high for a bunch of reasons but I also know that it’s almost impossible that my T levels could be as high as they were when I was 21. Also, I tried Vitex (just the herb) a while ago and it did nothing so my results may be more because of the other three E blockers in M (just guessing though). If you try M I’d be very interested in hearing your results. I’m just starting to turn my workout partners onto this stuff and a couple of them have promised to give it a go so I’ll let you know if they like it after a month or so. Best of luck to you. Remember, just like a fine wine, people of high quality just get better as they get older (if only it were that simple, LOL).
Is it better to take Mag-10 on an empty stomach or with a meal? I have been taking it on an empty stomach for the same reason you hold it under your tongue, better absorbtion into the blood stream. Any thoughts?
Good news and bad news…Good, I have a lot of time to lift now but the bad news is that it’s because i have been one of many victims of corporate cut backs. I want to start Mag-10 and was thinking since I have no income I need to do it the most economical way. My question: Since I do plan on working out with the morning and evening schedule, how long would one bottle of Mag-10 last me? Rent be damned…do I just need to buy the second bottle to get the 3rd for free. Or would one bottle at least prove to me that spending money on another couple of bottles. Yes I know about the money back guarantee but just for trial purposes and my cash reserve, what kind of gains does one bottle produce.
Someone tell me when Mag10 is going to be available in OZ???
Clif- Bill Roberts said in the other thread that it doesn’t matter. And you don’t have to hold it under your tongue either.
Bill or Chris,
Are you collection the stats on MAG 10?