Bill - thanks for your evaluation. Perhaps I did have too much carbs or fats, and I acknowledge having a hard time getting more protein than I did, but next go around, I will be stricter on my diet and just down even more protein shakes and MRPs.
I do trust your experience and know by your knowledge of biochem and organic chem as well as AAS personal use that you speak with true heart, so I won't do the math on your above examples.
Do you ever just get sick or bored of drinking da shakes? I have, but try to remedy it with food (of which when I eat so much my wife just keeps a can of potpurri near by!) and have recently began to likle PurePro in a can or Met-Rx Protein Plus in a can (hi-pro/low carb).
Anyway, is there any evidence that COX II inhibitors effect muscle protein synthesis? I could not find any.
I’ve started my cycle exactly a week ago (sat jan 5th). I weighted myself at about 211 (at 6’3" and 23 years old) on thrusday (jan 3rd) on an industrial scale which I know to be damned accurate. Anyway I ate a crapload of protein, (I kept a food log to back this up) I got around 400 during the week (this is much much more then I usually consume… I admit that protein intake probably was a major problem area for me the past year). Thru out the week I had good workouts and generally felt great mentally (which is usually the case when I start something new due to the hope of great gains). Anyway monday morning at work I measured my weight again and it was 216, I didn’t appear to have gotten much more bodyfat so I felt pretty good about that. The rest of the week I weighted in at 215 (I weighted myself at around the same time each day… which is around 10am) and my weight didn’t budge. Problem is that my freakin love handles buldged out (tho my gut doesn’t appear to have moved much, weird huh?) that kinda pissed me off… along with some problems at work got me a bit melancholy, but chest and back day fixes all problems and that is what today (sat 12th) is. I was considering upping my dose to 2wice a day, if I don’t get a few more reps or add more poundage to my chest and back routine (which I altered a bit since starting mag10). I’m ok on money and affording mag10, but obviously I’d rather not do this for monetary reasons. Is this a good plan? or should I stick it out for the full 2 weeks? go on tribex and m then go back to mag10 as with the plan. How about taking 2 doses on training days and only 1 dose on rest days?
I wonder if height makes a difference for dose amount and frequency. I’d appreciate any suggestions and opinions…
Doug, I’m lucky in that for certain protein
products I’m a total junkie. When Met-Rx
first came out, I almost lived on the stuff
for, I don’t know, at least 5 or 6 years.
At one point I even turned slightly orange
from all the beta carotene in it.
I only switched when Grow came out, and
then Advanced Protein. It’s anything but
work or bothersome for me to have these.
I’m just that way, if I like something I
can eat a lot of it all the time and never
get tired of it.
These days, unfortunately, Met-Rx seems to
taste quite different from what it used to.
It’s not inedible by any means, but, it’s
no longer the wonderful treat it used to be.
Still, if it were all I had, I could easily
drink as many as needed every day.
I can appreciate it would be rough on those
who don’t like drinking these products. 400
grams of protein with low fat is otherwise
almost unattainable, or perhaps actually unattainable.
Bill-I’ve getting ready to start my second Mag-10 cycle this Thursday, but wanted to ask you two questions first.
Last time, I was on break from school and was able to do the two-a-days with pretty good results. This time, though, I’m back at school and will be sticking to one-a-day training six days a week with roughly 20 sets per workout (including ancillaries). Although I’ll be using a few strip sets and supersets, I won’t be using nearly as many as is recommended by the GS Project. I’ll be using the following four day split: Day 1: Back (with deadlifts), Rear Delts, Biceps; Day 2: Delts, Traps, forearms; Day 3: Quads, Hams, Abs; Day 4: Chest, Triceps. Calves will be worked on Days 2 and 4 (need to be prioritized). I plan to go five on, one off, six on, one off, one on over the fourteen days. All workouts will start with core movements (bent knee/stiff leg deadlifts, front/back squats, rows, chins, dips, flat/incline/military presses) Do you think this is too much volume per workout if I’m training six days per week?
2) In the first phase, I added a little more bodyfat than I had expected, so I'm rethinking some of my nutritional strategies. I have one specific area of concern. On some days, my workout will end at 5:30 PM. In preparation for the workout, I'll eat P&C meals all day until lunch at 12:45, and preceed my workout with a light 3 PM P&F meal consisting of a protein shake and a 7-8 fish oil caps. Obviously, I'll use Surge during and after the workout, but my question is regarding the meal I'll eat at 6:30. In my last stage, I used a P&F meal anytime after 6 out of fear of late evening carbs being easily stored. As such, Dinner at 6:30 or 7 was 8 oz eye of round, a small salad, a CLA capsule, and 2 tsp flaxseed oil. Would I be better off with a P&C meal here. If I did so, I'd only have 2 P&F meals throughout the day. Just thought I'd see what you thought about 70 or so carbs at 6 or 7 if I don't plan on being real active afterwards. If you could help my to see the light on these two questions, I'll be golden. Thanks for all your help.
Question about Diet. What is the carb/protein/fat ratio to use with the diet? In the Appetite for Construction diet example it breaks down to Carb-25%(323g), Protein- 38%(209g), and Fat 37%(142g). This seems really high in fat!
What is the earliest age that someone should start using mag 10 at? I’m 19 and most of what I’ve read recommends not messing with the endocrine system until the age of 24 or so. thanks
i have finished 2 weeks of mag-10, at one dose a day. and with a stone age way of keeping track of my lean bodyweight gain, i was (i’m 6’1")250 pounds with a skin fold measurement of 18mm (at the hip…well, where it shows on the chart) now i’m 255 with a skin fold measurement of 14mm. it’s not an exact science, but i’ve obviously made good gains in two weeks ! so, with sticking to my original plan, that’s 2 weeks down, with one dose a day. the next two weeks i’m going to do 2 doses a day. then two weeks after that, take tribex. followed by a full week off of everything.
one thing that was a bit frustrating, is that when i did my doses, i did the 1.5 cup full thing. i guess i didn't guess the half cup correctly, because i ended up with 3 full cups left when i thought my bottle should be empty. so, i guess i made those good gains with a little less than one dose a day !. (i'm gonna run to the store and get me one of those medicine syringe things)
but all in all, i’m very happy with the results of mag-10, and i would recommend it to anyone !
bill, as far as my subligual absorbtion example with nicotine, (even though i got on a soap box, which was not called for and i appologize about that) i just wanted to point out that sublingually, substances DO, in one form or another, get into your bloodstream. now i’ll agree that the amount, effect, usability, etc. is in question. so Bill, if i read your comment correctly, are you saying that just swallowing mag-10 works, and holding it under your tounge doesn’t really matter ??
Yes, that much fat would be excessive on
a MAG-10 cycle unless it were a dieting
cycle.
The MAG-10 dietary recommendations are
NOT the Massive Eating recommendations.
John Berardi never intended those recommendations for those using relatively
high dose androgens seeking rapid muscle mass
gain. He intended them for natural trainers.
And I never intended the MAG-10 recommendations
(400 g protein per day, 500 g carbs, minimal fat) for natural trainers, but only for this sort of situation – substantial androgen use while seeking rapid muscle gains.
Combining two good ideas together is always tempting, but in this case, John Berardi’s
good diet ideas don’t combine optimally with the MAG-10 good idea, except perhaps in a dieting situation. Instead, a different good idea
is needed with MAG-10.
Don’t worry about incorporating protein plus fat meals. They’re completely unnecessary when using substantial doses of androgens and intending to gain muscle mass (however, getting
good quantities of EFA’s and DHA/EPA, as you’re planning, remains
a good idea.)
Thanks a lot for your quick response to both my questions. I’ll be training hard and tossing a yam in with that steak, salad, and some fish oil caps. I also got a lot out of the second part of your post in which you emphasized that Massive Eating is probably not ideal while “on.” Unfortunately, I think at lot of people (myself included) may have gotten the wrong idea in the Growth Surge articles that encouraged users to stick to the Massive Eating protocol. Personally, I’ll be throwing it out the window this time around in order to get only the necessary amount of fats in order to leave more room (percentage-wise) in my diet for carbs (protein is already over 400). Just a last thought: it might be a good idea to make a separate post altogether regarding what you and the T-Mag staff consider to be the ideal Mag-10 diet in terms of what to eat at what times of day. Something similar to the sample diets that Berardi offered in past Appetite for Construction columns would be extremely helpful. Essentially, I’ve gotten bogged down with focusing on getting in the things I’ve always considered sacred to my “natural diet” (red meat, whole eggs, flaxseed oil, CLA, fish oil caps) without mixing any of them with P&C meals, and I can imagine that others have had the same problem. In fact, “A Day in the Life of a T-Man on Mag-10” (featuring diet, supplementation, rest, and training) would make a damn good column for the online mag (probably not appropriate for 60 minutes, though…). Anyway, thanks again for all your help.
Rex- The overlall Growth Surge/Massive Eating protocols are still great for MAG-10 usage, but as we’ve said before, stick to P+C meals for the best results when on an androgen, as Bill suggested.
I still like P+F in my last meal of the day, however, even while “on”. That’s not something I’d worry about if you’re a true hardgainer, but it seems to work nicely for we carb sensitive, previous fat boy types.
Bill, do you feel it is also a waste to use massive eating style while dieting on mag-10. I am not using a severe diet, I am eating 2400cal/day with 240g pro, 210gcarbs, 67g fat. I was 200lbs (5’8") at the beigining of the cycle, a week later was 196, that was due to the fact that calories average 1600-1700 the first week, this week my calories have been exactly what I was shotting for. I weight myself tomorrow and hope to not have lost any weight, I am leaner though.
thankyou.
JT, I’m sure the approach of having P+C
meals earlier in the day, and P+F later
in the day works fine when dieting severely
on androgens. Whether it works better than
a more isocaloric approach, or a cyclic
ketogenic approach, I don’t know.
One thing I personally like about it is that
it tends to self-limit meals – if you can have all three macronutrients, that opens up so many more things to eat – and still allows the full variety over the course of the day. So even if results are no better, that’s certainly something to be said for it.
Would 1,6 Training be ok during 2 weeks of 8 sessions a week. I as thinking of using 1,6 training on 4 of these workouts and gsp for the other 4. Will this be too hard on my nervous system? I’ll be using Surge once a day, along with Mag-10.
I wrote in an earlier thread about my excellent results with Mag-10 (10+ pounds of muscle in two weeks and almost no fat gain with acne as the only side effect). I’ve also posted to let you guys know that I think M (and, to a lesser extent, Methoxy-7) are great products and I’ve kept all my muscle agins and even added some more on M (this is great because I’m 42 with 30 years of lifting behind me and no real gains, despite trying lots of different supplements and exercise programs, for about three years). Anyway, I love my M! I think this is a must have for anyone over 30 or so! M, for me, seems to have really delivered what lots of other supplements (including, for me at least, Tribex 500) have promised but not delivered. Most testosterone boosters on the market seem more like “hard-on fuel”. In other words, most of these products deliver erections (probably through increased blood flow) but not other testosterone results. M really does put me in an “anabolic state”. Also, I’ve tried Vitex (just the herb) a while back and it did nothing for me. So the extra ingrediants in M really do seem to make a SIGNIFICANT difference. I don’t know if this stuff is any good for the youngsters who already have lots of T and low E (other than coming off a cycle) but it’s a “miracle” supplement for us old guys.
Bill, have you guys ever thought of running an ad campaign for M as an alternative to mild testosterone replacement therapy for people in their 30s to 50s? Would this get you guys in trouble with the FDA? What is your honest opinion about long term use of M? Will I develop a tolerence and then be left with an estrogen “rebound” when I quit? Am I risking serious side effects? I was thinking of using it for at least the next three months. Anyway, I had an extra bottle of Mag-10 from my cycle and I can’t do it for a few months because I’m very busy now (I do VC work) and don’t want any acne so I gave it to my younger brother (he’s 37). He’s almsot finished his cycle (1 dose a day) and he’s also seen great results. As of yesterday he was up more than 7 pounds and didn’t think he’d gained any fat. Craig, my brother, has a similar background to me. He was a great athlete all through high school and college and has lifted ever since with little gain during the last year. Craig used steroids once (I never have) but that was 15 years ago. The odd thing is, he also got acne (it seems like this is unusual from other posts) and he also has NEVER had acne before (I went through an acne stage in my teens and early 20s but he always had great skin). So, Mag-10 really does work. I think our gains would have been the same on even a pretty heavy two week cycle of injectables (I base this on what I’ve seen from working out with juiceheads all these years). Does it seem like older people (35+) do better on Mag-10? Do people who use steroids regularly get the same kinds of results (I’d assume they wouldn’t)?
I just started MAG-10 today, and I’m prett psyched about it. One thing though…I noticed the flavor of the stuff isn’t so great, so I was wondering how come your team of developers didn’t decide to put it into caps instead of a liquid.
Drew- This has been explained a couple of times before but since you’re new to MAG-10, I’ll go over it again. To make MAG-10 taste really good Biotest would have had to delay its release. Since everyone (including the staff) was chomping at the bit for it, they decided to release it after the formula was perfected but before the taste was perfected. In the future, they will improve the taste and it’ll taste great instead of just “okay”.
BTW, if you really don’t like the taste then don’t worry about holding it under your tounge. There’s probably no need for this and it won’t have to stay in your mouth long if you just swallow. This is another reason I like an oral syringe: you can get the whole dose down in one quick squirt instead of one and a half caps. Honestly though, it’s not that bad, just takes some getting used to.
blackjack, M is more of an estrogen killer than a T booster, although it does have that effect. I’m not sure you could really put it in the T-booster category.