New Guy

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

Hey guys, this is my first post. Let me tell you a little about me.

I’m in my mid 40’s. I have metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes, and low T, with depression.

For the past 7 year, I have felt like sh#t. Not motivation, brain fog, I can’t make a decision to save my life, not wanting to have conversations with people, no morning wood, can’t lose weight, and lost most of my body strength.

Last year I decided to have my doc run so test to see what was going on. Come to find out I have low T. He really did know how to tread low T, so I found about 3 doctors, that did do or help me at all. I found my current doc, last Aug. He has me on 2.5 grams of compound cream.Here are my last blood work results.

Here are my new test results. I have been TRT for 3 months (compound cream). And 2.5 grams per day.

Testosterone, Total - 708 (350-1030)

Testosterone,% Free - 3% (1.5-3.2) (by dialysis)

Free Testosterone - 212 (52-280)

SHBG - 11 (20-60) BTW-I’m a type 2 diabetic

TSH - 2.9 (.5-4.8)

DHEA - 496 (160-800)

DHT - 167 (30-85)

Estradiol, Mass Spectrometry - 3.4% (.8-3.5%)

Progesterone - <10 (<10-11)

I still don’t fill right, I mentioned my E2, but he says AI are not for men, but if my nest test comes back high, we will talk about it then. He said don’t worry about mt DHT…

Right now I’m working out 5 days a week, M,W,F I do a full body workout, and Tue, and Thur, I do HIIT. I have to eat low to no carbs to keep my sugars in control. My carbs, are at no more then 30 grams per day.

Any input would be much appreachated!!

2

All I can say is, listen to your doctor and keep working out. It sounds like you believe low-T is a big part of your problem. And, it probably is. But depression is very complicated. There might be other things contributing. So, even if you fix the low-T issue, you might still have some of the problems you describe.

But it really can’t hurt to get into shape. And I’m sure the prescriptions are doing something for you. Sounds hard. But you have a good chance to pull through it if you keep working at it.

Best of luck to you.

3

[quote]humanjhawkins wrote:
All I can say is, listen to your doctor and keep working out. It sounds like you believe low-T is a big part of your problem. And, it probably is. But depression is very complicated. There might be other things contributing. So, even if you fix the low-T issue, you might still have some of the problems you describe.

But it really can’t hurt to get into shape. And I’m sure the prescriptions are doing something for you. Sounds hard. But you have a good chance to pull through it if you keep working at it.

Best of luck to you. [/quote]

Thanks!

4

Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?

5

Get serum E2 lab data that we can understand.

Thyroid: T3 or T4 needed. TSH is a concern.

Low thyroid hormones and/or elevated E2 can make you feel the way that you do.

6

[quote]KSman wrote:
Get serum E2 lab data that we can understand.

Thyroid: T3 or T4 needed. TSH is a concern.

Low thyroid hormones and/or elevated E2 can make you feel the way that you do.[/quote]

A complete thyroid, and E2 work up was done last Friday, I will post results when I go for the follow up appointment. My last TSH, was 3.25…

7

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!!

8

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.

9

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.[/quote]

For 4 months.

I’m open to any suggestions.

10

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.[/quote]

For 4 months.

I’m open to any suggestions.[/quote]

Well as a Family Nurse Practitioner I have treated a lot of depression through the use of meds. The most successful is individuals who made changes in their lives. You are making all the right steps, the medications for depression are stepping stones IMO. Unless you have been diagnosed with Bipolar the goal is to get off the meds in the future. Alot of guys in the over 35 lifter are doing 5-3-1 myself included. The brilliant part of this program is it sets goals that are short term and long term. Looking at what you are doing workout wise do you deload? We are not 20 any longer and it takes longer for us to rebuild after working out. The other part would be diet but being diabetic you seem to have that under control. How long have you been diabetic?

11

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.[/quote]

For 4 months.

I’m open to any suggestions.[/quote]

Well as a Family Nurse Practitioner I have treated a lot of depression through the use of meds. The most successful is individuals who made changes in their lives. You are making all the right steps, the medications for depression are stepping stones IMO. Unless you have been diagnosed with Bipolar the goal is to get off the meds in the future. Alot of guys in the over 35 lifter are doing 5-3-1 myself included. The brilliant part of this program is it sets goals that are short term and long term. Looking at what you are doing workout wise do you deload? We are not 20 any longer and it takes longer for us to rebuild after working out. The other part would be diet but being diabetic you seem to have that under control. How long have you been diabetic? [/quote]

I have been a diabetic for 6 yrs. I’m hoping the TRT will help with the depression, loosing weight, along with weight training, I’m currently doing the HST program.

12

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.[/quote]

For 4 months.

I’m open to any suggestions.[/quote]

Well as a Family Nurse Practitioner I have treated a lot of depression through the use of meds. The most successful is individuals who made changes in their lives. You are making all the right steps, the medications for depression are stepping stones IMO. Unless you have been diagnosed with Bipolar the goal is to get off the meds in the future. Alot of guys in the over 35 lifter are doing 5-3-1 myself included. The brilliant part of this program is it sets goals that are short term and long term. Looking at what you are doing workout wise do you deload? We are not 20 any longer and it takes longer for us to rebuild after working out. The other part would be diet but being diabetic you seem to have that under control. How long have you been diabetic? [/quote]

I have been a diabetic for 6 yrs. I’m hoping the TRT will help with the depression, loosing weight, along with weight training, I’m currently doing the HST program.[/quote]

Actually it probably will do the best thing for that. Good luck and keep up the hard work. There will be alot of support here for you.

13

Are you on insulin or gloucophage?

Also, going on testosterone will change your blood glucose, especially since you are working out. The more I hear about being on insulin, the more I realize it has advantages over glucophage. I started testosterone because I was becoming a full blown diabetic and nothing was going to keep me from it.

The estrogen, when balanced, will make you feel right. The protocol I am using is called the “morning wood” when estrogen is in the right spot, you should wake up with nighttime erections. The drug most people use is arimidex/ liquidex, and the dosage is one milligram cut up and spread over a week. so 1/4 pill every other day.

The way I feel with high estrodial is sweaty, nervouse, and my nipple material has a little more tissue. also my erections will happen, but I go soft quickly.

the other side of this is arimidex is incredibly powerful, and for me I have an extreme sensitivity to it. I have it in liquid form at 1mg per ml, and 2 drops everyother day until I get nightime wood, and then 1 drop every other day.

When the estrodial is too low, my libido disapears, and I can’t get it hard. it takes up to 5 days for my estrogen to recover, and I flip back into being high again. I then have to try to balance it out.

Low T will cause depression, and it may take a few months for it to all go away. I know I had a low grade depression. I also had hot flashes, doctors listen to that symptom.

14

[quote]trtgiant wrote:
Are you on insulin or gloucophage?

Also, going on testosterone will change your blood glucose, especially since you are working out. The more I hear about being on insulin, the more I realize it has advantages over glucophage. I started testosterone because I was becoming a full blown diabetic and nothing was going to keep me from it.

The estrogen, when balanced, will make you feel right. The protocol I am using is called the “morning wood” when estrogen is in the right spot, you should wake up with nighttime erections. The drug most people use is arimidex/ liquidex, and the dosage is one milligram cut up and spread over a week. so 1/4 pill every other day.

The way I feel with high estrodial is sweaty, nervouse, and my nipple material has a little more tissue. also my erections will happen, but I go soft quickly.

the other side of this is arimidex is incredibly powerful, and for me I have an extreme sensitivity to it. I have it in liquid form at 1mg per ml, and 2 drops everyother day until I get nightime wood, and then 1 drop every other day.

When the estrodial is too low, my libido disapears, and I can’t get it hard. it takes up to 5 days for my estrogen to recover, and I flip back into being high again. I then have to try to balance it out.

Low T will cause depression, and it may take a few months for it to all go away. I know I had a low grade depression. I also had hot flashes, doctors listen to that symptom.[/quote]

trtgiant, my AIC was as high as 11.2, at one time, it is down to 6.5. My Endo told me 1 1/2 yrs. ago, if I didn’t get my sugars under control, she was going to put me on insulin.
At my worst, I was taking 2500mg of metformin, 20mg of glyburide, and 100mg, of januvia.
Now, I’m taking 2000mg of metformin, 5 mg of glyburide, and no januvia. My goal is to get off all my diabetes meds!!

I’m thinking my problem has been high E2’s all along. 9 months ago, when I stopped my TRT. My E2 was still just over the high range. In regards to morning wood. It is very, very soft, and maybe lasts, for 1 min. I don’t consider that an erection!! My doc and I are going to explore the AI avenue. So, we will see what happens.

Yes, I hope the depression with take care of its self!!

The funny thing is, this all started in my 20’s. I started with high blood pressure, and the high cholesterol, with triglycerides. Then in my late 30’s and early 40’s the diabetes kicked in. So, for all I know, all my problem could have started from my low T. I don’t know because, I didn’t have my first T test until I was in my 40’s

BTW, loosing weight is impossible, no matter what I do. And I have had man breast, for as long as I can remember!!

15

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.[/quote]

For 4 months.

I’m open to any suggestions.[/quote]

Well as a Family Nurse Practitioner I have treated a lot of depression through the use of meds. The most successful is individuals who made changes in their lives. You are making all the right steps, the medications for depression are stepping stones IMO. Unless you have been diagnosed with Bipolar the goal is to get off the meds in the future. Alot of guys in the over 35 lifter are doing 5-3-1 myself included. The brilliant part of this program is it sets goals that are short term and long term. Looking at what you are doing workout wise do you deload? We are not 20 any longer and it takes longer for us to rebuild after working out. The other part would be diet but being diabetic you seem to have that under control. How long have you been diabetic? [/quote]

I have been a diabetic for 6 yrs. I’m hoping the TRT will help with the depression, loosing weight, along with weight training, I’m currently doing the HST program.[/quote]

Actually it probably will do the best thing for that. Good luck and keep up the hard work. There will be alot of support here for you. [/quote]

Thank You!

16

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
Are you currently lifting weights? Cardio? Do you have a plan for the non-pharm treatment?[/quote]

Yes, I started weight lifting again, after 18 yrs. Plus, I added HIIT.

Have no plans yet, still trying to get better!![/quote]

How long have you been lifting again? You have to change your mentality for the quick fix. You have to think long term and enjoy the changes you are making in your life. This takes time.[/quote]

For 4 months.

I’m open to any suggestions.[/quote]

Well as a Family Nurse Practitioner I have treated a lot of depression through the use of meds. The most successful is individuals who made changes in their lives. You are making all the right steps, the medications for depression are stepping stones IMO. Unless you have been diagnosed with Bipolar the goal is to get off the meds in the future. Alot of guys in the over 35 lifter are doing 5-3-1 myself included. The brilliant part of this program is it sets goals that are short term and long term. Looking at what you are doing workout wise do you deload? We are not 20 any longer and it takes longer for us to rebuild after working out. The other part would be diet but being diabetic you seem to have that under control. How long have you been diabetic? [/quote]

I have been a diabetic for 6 yrs. I’m hoping the TRT will help with the depression, loosing weight, along with weight training, I’m currently doing the HST program.[/quote]

Actually it probably will do the best thing for that. Good luck and keep up the hard work. There will be alot of support here for you. [/quote]

Thank You![/quote]

You are very welcome. Us old guys have to stick together.

17

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:
Hey guys, this is my first post. Let me tell you a little about me.

I’m in my mid 40’s. I have metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes, and low T, with depression.

For the past 7 year, I have felt like sh#t. Not motivation, brain fog, I can’t make a decision to save my life, not wanting to have conversations with people, no morning wood, can’t lose weight, and lost most of my body strength.

Last year I decided to have my doc run so test to see what was going on. Come to find out I have low T. He really did know how to tread low T, so I found about 3 doctors, that did do or help me at all. I found my current doc, last Aug. He has me on 2.5 grams of compound cream.Here are my last blood work results.

Here are my new test results. I have been TRT for 3 months (compound cream). And 2.5 grams per day.

Testosterone, Total - 708 (350-1030)

Testosterone,% Free - 3% (1.5-3.2) (by dialysis)

Free Testosterone - 212 (52-280)

SHBG - 11 (20-60) BTW-I’m a type 2 diabetic

TSH - 2.9 (.5-4.8)

DHEA - 496 (160-800)

DHT - 167 (30-85)

Estradiol, Mass Spectrometry - 3.4% (.8-3.5%)

Progesterone - <10 (<10-11)

I still don’t fill right, I mentioned my E2, but he says AI are not for men, but if my nest test comes back high, we will talk about it then. He said don’t worry about mt DHT…

Right now I’m working out 5 days a week, M,W,F I do a full body workout, and Tue, and Thur, I do HIIT. I have to eat low to no carbs to keep my sugars in control. My carbs, are at no more then 30 grams per day.

Any input would be much appreachated!![/quote]

I am far from an expert on this but I don’t see why you think your T is low.

18

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:
Hey guys, this is my first post. Let me tell you a little about me.

I’m in my mid 40’s. I have metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes, and low T, with depression.

For the past 7 year, I have felt like sh#t. Not motivation, brain fog, I can’t make a decision to save my life, not wanting to have conversations with people, no morning wood, can’t lose weight, and lost most of my body strength.

Last year I decided to have my doc run so test to see what was going on. Come to find out I have low T. He really did know how to tread low T, so I found about 3 doctors, that did do or help me at all. I found my current doc, last Aug. He has me on 2.5 grams of compound cream.Here are my last blood work results.

Here are my new test results. I have been TRT for 3 months (compound cream). And 2.5 grams per day.

Testosterone, Total - 708 (350-1030)

Testosterone,% Free - 3% (1.5-3.2) (by dialysis)

Free Testosterone - 212 (52-280)

SHBG - 11 (20-60) BTW-I’m a type 2 diabetic

TSH - 2.9 (.5-4.8)

DHEA - 496 (160-800)

DHT - 167 (30-85)

Estradiol, Mass Spectrometry - 3.4% (.8-3.5%)

Progesterone - <10 (<10-11)

I still don’t fill right, I mentioned my E2, but he says AI are not for men, but if my nest test comes back high, we will talk about it then. He said don’t worry about mt DHT…

Right now I’m working out 5 days a week, M,W,F I do a full body workout, and Tue, and Thur, I do HIIT. I have to eat low to no carbs to keep my sugars in control. My carbs, are at no more then 30 grams per day.

Any input would be much appreachated!![/quote]

I am far from an expert on this but I don’t see why you think your T is low. [/quote]

Lol…No, this test is with me being on 2.5 grams of T-cream per day. Before I started T thearpy, my Testosterone was 197.

I’m thinking the reason I don’t see much difference is because my E2 is high.

19

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]GWJ1 wrote:
Hey guys, this is my first post. Let me tell you a little about me.

I’m in my mid 40’s. I have metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes, and low T, with depression.

For the past 7 year, I have felt like sh#t. Not motivation, brain fog, I can’t make a decision to save my life, not wanting to have conversations with people, no morning wood, can’t lose weight, and lost most of my body strength.

Last year I decided to have my doc run so test to see what was going on. Come to find out I have low T. He really did know how to tread low T, so I found about 3 doctors, that did do or help me at all. I found my current doc, last Aug. He has me on 2.5 grams of compound cream.Here are my last blood work results.

Here are my new test results. I have been TRT for 3 months (compound cream). And 2.5 grams per day.

Testosterone, Total - 708 (350-1030)

Testosterone,% Free - 3% (1.5-3.2) (by dialysis)

Free Testosterone - 212 (52-280)

SHBG - 11 (20-60) BTW-I’m a type 2 diabetic

TSH - 2.9 (.5-4.8)

DHEA - 496 (160-800)

DHT - 167 (30-85)

Estradiol, Mass Spectrometry - 3.4% (.8-3.5%)

Progesterone - <10 (<10-11)

I still don’t fill right, I mentioned my E2, but he says AI are not for men, but if my nest test comes back high, we will talk about it then. He said don’t worry about mt DHT…

Right now I’m working out 5 days a week, M,W,F I do a full body workout, and Tue, and Thur, I do HIIT. I have to eat low to no carbs to keep my sugars in control. My carbs, are at no more then 30 grams per day.

Any input would be much appreachated!![/quote]

I am far from an expert on this but I don’t see why you think your T is low. [/quote]

Lol…No, this test is with me being on 2.5 grams of T-cream per day. Before I started T thearpy, my Testosterone was 197.

I’m thinking the reason I don’t see much difference is because my E2 is high. [/quote]

Oh, got it.

20

[quote]KSman wrote:
Get serum E2 lab data that we can understand.

Thyroid: T3 or T4 needed. TSH is a concern.

Low thyroid hormones and/or elevated E2 can make you feel the way that you do.[/quote]

I receive some of my new results, in no particular order:

Vitamin B12 - 763 (200-1100)
T3-Total - 90 (76-181)
Prolactin - 8.4 (2.0-18)
Progesterone- 0.8 (<1.4)
Cortisol, AM- 21 (4-22)
Estradiol - 80 (13-54)
T3, Reverse - 25 (11-32)
Vitamin D - 30 (20-100)
TPO <10 (<35)
DHEA-S - 100 (45-345)
FREE T3 - 300 (230-420)
Mercury, Blood - <4 (10 or less)

That’s all I have right now, KSman can you help, and all of my T nation family, Thanks in advance!!