How would you modify the coan deadlift workout based on your current knowledge?
Example:
Week 4
Deadlift (90%): 1x2 @ 350 lbs
Speed deadlift (75%): 5x3 @ 295 lbs (90-120 sec rest b/w sets)
3 circuits (rest 90sec between exercises, 2-3 minutes between circuits):
Stiff-leg deadlift: 8 reps
Bent over row: 8 reps
Underhand (reverse) grip lat pulldown: 8 reps
Arched back good morning: 8 reps
To autoregulate the speed deadlift load? I was also thinking about keeping the circuits of stiff leg deadlift/bent over row/underhand pulldown/good mornings below 3 reps. Should I employ an autoregulation on these exercises too? I fear I might do 4-8 sets on each exercise, would this be too much?
How would you modify the coan deadlift workout based on your current knowledge?
Example:
Week 4
Deadlift (90%): 1x2 @ 350 lbs
Speed deadlift (75%): 5x3 @ 295 lbs (90-120 sec rest b/w sets)
3 circuits (rest 90sec between exercises, 2-3 minutes between circuits):
Stiff-leg deadlift: 8 reps
Bent over row: 8 reps
Underhand (reverse) grip lat pulldown: 8 reps
Arched back good morning: 8 reps
To autoregulate the speed deadlift load? I was also thinking about keeping the circuits of stiff leg deadlift/bent over row/underhand pulldown/good mornings below 3 reps. Should I employ an autoregulation on these exercises too? I fear I might do 4-8 sets on each exercise, would this be too much?
Merci.
[/quote]
I never modify someone else’s workout or system. The exception being the 5-3-1 system as the main workout respects most of the same principles as what I recommend, and because Jim allows lots of leeway for assistance work.
Ed Coan was one (if not THE) best powerlifter of all time. He was both extremely genetically gifted for that sport AND put in YEARS of hard, specific training before being at the level he reached. You CAN’T simply use his program and expect optimal results. You want to be where he is at? Do what he did when he was at your level of development!
You remind me of a 15 year old football player with very little training experience who finds an NFL team’s training program on the net and decides to do the same thing even though the program is built for guys who probably have 10+ years of training behind their belt.
How can a setup similar to IBB Shoulder spec days (great stuff btw) be used, but tweaked according to this? :
more strength than size
more of the same lifts to have maximum gains on them and less variations
Are these good ideas? :
sets of 2 instead of 3 in max force ramping
on Wed use the same lifts as on Monday but with more sets and no supersetting
on Fri use the same two main lifts from Mon [/quote]
I would not change a thing (I would do the program as it is), except maybe for Wednesday’s workout in which I might simply do sets of 3 reps with weights ranging from 60 to 85%, probably double ramping.
*IMPORTANT: IMHO the program that builds the most strength will potentially be the program that builds the most muscle mass. The X factor being nutrition.
I’ve spent the past 30 minutes looking for the post you wrote regarding how to train abs but can’t seem to find it. I just remember reading something about isometrics.
If you would be so kind as to direct me to the correct forum, I’d appreciate it.
This is a kinda weird questions but I can’t seem to get a straight answer. Basically, I have small hands.
I know I can’t make them larger or bigger length wise but I was wondering if there is a way to basically make them thicker. Fingers, palm etc.
Basically, hand hypertrophy haha.
Possible? If so, how?
(Idk if it is a good observation but you dont seem many body builders/lifters with thin hands, so not sure if it’s doable)
This is a kinda weird questions but I can’t seem to get a straight answer. Basically, I have small hands.
I know I can’t make them larger or bigger length wise but I was wondering if there is a way to basically make them thicker. Fingers, palm etc.
Basically, hand hypertrophy haha.
Possible? If so, how?
(Idk if it is a good observation but you dont seem many body builders/lifters with thin hands, so not sure if it’s doable)
Thanks![/quote]
The hands are made of many muscles. Muscles can hypertrophy with resistance training. So yes, it is possible to make the hands and fingers thicker.
Focusing on grip strength can make the muscles of your hands thicker. Pinch grip exercises, deadlift and pulls without straps, captain of crush grippers, bar hold for time, one, two or three finger lifts, are all good ways of working the muscles of the hands.
How can a setup similar to IBB Shoulder spec days (great stuff btw) be used, but tweaked according to this? :
more strength than size
more of the same lifts to have maximum gains on them and less variations
Are these good ideas? :
sets of 2 instead of 3 in max force ramping
on Wed use the same lifts as on Monday but with more sets and no supersetting
on Fri use the same two main lifts from Mon [/quote]
I would not change a thing (I would do the program as it is), except maybe for wednesday’s workout in which I might simply do sets of 3 reps with weights ranging from 60 to 85%, probably double ramping.
*IMPORTANT: IMHO the program that builds the most strength will potentially be the program that builds the most muscle mass. The X factor being nutrition.
[/quote]
Is it okay then to use just 2-3 lifts with the way you suggested on Wed ? (double ramping to 85%)
How can a setup similar to IBB Shoulder spec days (great stuff btw) be used, but tweaked according to this? :
more strength than size
more of the same lifts to have maximum gains on them and less variations
Are these good ideas? :
sets of 2 instead of 3 in max force ramping
on Wed use the same lifts as on Monday but with more sets and no supersetting
on Fri use the same two main lifts from Mon [/quote]
I would not change a thing (I would do the program as it is), except maybe for wednesday’s workout in which I might simply do sets of 3 reps with weights ranging from 60 to 85%, probably double ramping.
*IMPORTANT: IMHO the program that builds the most strength will potentially be the program that builds the most muscle mass. The X factor being nutrition.
[/quote]
Is it okay then to use just 2-3 lifts with the way you suggested on Wed ? (double ramping to 85%)[/quote]
I would not always ramp up to 85%. On Monday you can go VERY close to your max load point (heavier than max force… just prior to grinding or having a sticking point) but on Wednesday I would keep the weight explosive.
In other words Monday you will probably work up to around 80-85% (maybe a bit more as long as you are not grinding) but Wednesday you will not go much beyond 70-75% (you want to be EXPLOSIVE on that day, not just be able to avoid grinding). This workout is not about overloading your body, it is about still producing a lot of force (through acceleration) without stressing the nervous system.
How can a setup similar to IBB Shoulder spec days (great stuff btw) be used, but tweaked according to this? :
more strength than size
more of the same lifts to have maximum gains on them and less variations
Are these good ideas? :
sets of 2 instead of 3 in max force ramping
on Wed use the same lifts as on Monday but with more sets and no supersetting
on Fri use the same two main lifts from Mon [/quote]
I would not change a thing (I would do the program as it is), except maybe for wednesday’s workout in which I might simply do sets of 3 reps with weights ranging from 60 to 85%, probably double ramping.
*IMPORTANT: IMHO the program that builds the most strength will potentially be the program that builds the most muscle mass. The X factor being nutrition.
[/quote]
Is it okay then to use just 2-3 lifts with the way you suggested on Wed ? (double ramping to 85%)[/quote]
I would not always ramp up to 85%. On Monday you can go VERY close to your max load point (heavier than max force… just prior to grinding or having a sticking point) but on Wednesday I would keep the weight explosive.
In other words Monday you will probably work up to around 80-85% (maybe a bit more as long as you are not grinding) but Wednesday you will not go much beyond 70-75% (you want to be EXPLOSIVE on that day, not just be able to avoid grinding). This workout is not about overloading your body, it is about still producing a lot of force (through acceleration) without stressing the nervous system.[/quote]
Thanks.
If I don’t use any supplements and the diet is average, should I probably not do more than 2 spec exercises per session ? You mentioned that the voulme should be reduced in such cases.
Chris, I’ll be quick. I train from only two years and I never took any supplements and I don’t need any. My diet is solid. Most of '09 I trained powerlifting-like. I am 17 y/o. Am I good for I,BB or I need to wait more?
It’s a long thread, I couldn’t read it all so I’m sorry if you answered question of this type anywhere.
COACH T,
I’ve read almost every article I can find writtten by you, Charles Poliquin, Don Alessi and a host of other coaches. However, I end up more confused about designing a training program. The problem is that I need several different capacities in my line of work which makes it hard to just do a pure bodybuilding program. I’m a U.S. Soldier so pushups, situps, and a 2 mile run comprise my fitness tests. My goal is to be as jacked and ripped as possible but still top of the line in running, pushsups, situps. In the past I’ve found it very hard to put together a program for maximal muscle gains and still excel at the Army fitness tests. When i add muscle mass I almost have to stop running and then my 2 mile run time suffers. I’ve also tried twice a day sessions with the first at 7am and second at 11;30-12pm but I just end up feeling weak and tired most of the times. How should i structure a program that still includes the army basics but makes room for maximum hypertrophy, running, basketball and how should i train for 2 a day workouts? please help me.
coach, i train at home without a preacher bench what type of curls have the same effect as preachers or any suitable substituyion? (using the incline bench doesn’t offer the strecth at the bottom)
I’m having problems with my Bench Press. Right now, my bench is at ~135 for 5x5 (really grinding on the last two sets though), but I can do 5x5 BW dips pretty easily (I weigh in around 220). I’ve tried a slightly wider grip on the bench, slightly closer (hands completely on the smooth parts between knurling), everything. I like to think I’m using at least above average form and set up, based on Dave Tate’s benching article/video from a few months ago.
I know that the dip and the bench aren’t the exact same muscle recruitment, but we’re talking about an ~80# difference and a significant amount of effort difference. What would you recommend to bring up my bench?
I’m 6’0", long limbed (half of height is legs and my wrists almost past my groin), and separated my shoulder about 4 months ago which prevented me from doing much upper body work for about 6 weeks. 220, about 20% bf (working on it), about 1.5 years training intelligently.
Thibs, was just going through a folder with soem of your older articles and came across your Accentuated Eccentric Training. Kinda crazy how much your thoughts have changed in the past 7 years, but I am loving the new training aproach including the perfect rep and etc. Here’s something from teh article that really stood out that differes from teh perfect rep, total opposite:
"In Laymanâ??s Terms, Please!
The last few sections were very dense in scientific information, but what does it all mean in the real world? It means:
If you deemphasise the yielding portion of your strength exercises (lowering the bar very fast, not contracting your muscles during the eccentric portion, etc.) you might as well not be training at all, at least if maximum strength and size are important to you. Be careful though, it doesnâ??t mean you should accentuate/emphasize the eccentric stress in all of your exercises, just that some exercises should target a very large eccentric overload.
Accentuating the eccentric stress during a session will lead to more strength gains. The reasons are related to structural as well as neural adaptations.
The eccentric portion of a movement is the main stimulus for muscle growth as it’s the cause of most of the microtrauma inflicted on the muscles. This acts as the signal to kick the muscle-building process into overdrive.
One more benefit I found from experience is that overloading the eccentric portion of an exercise allows one to get used to holding big weights and controlling them. This can have a very important confidence-building effect when attempting to lift maximum weights."
Just curious about my latest DL workout, wanted your suggestions for improving please.
Did medium stance sumo DL, kind of like what was in the Phase One I, BB video.
Peterson Step Ups: BWx8 - 3 sets (warm up for legs, have had tracking problems in knee in past, solved with this movement so now I do it regularly to keep knees happy)
I train like a powerlifter and lift raw only. My setup is upper/lower split with 2 days being rep work (eg 5x5 - just a guideline, not set in stone) and two being intensity days (rep maxes or heavy singles/doubles/triples)
my impression is IBB, the perfect rep, and all the other stuff you will be introducing later are primarily for bodybuilders (hypertrophy emphasis). Is there a way to adapt this to pure strength training? One consideration is the max effort method many powerlifters use. Can this be used in conjunction with the methods you are currently working on? Do you think ME work is an outdated/inferior method?
I never made much progress while I used dynamic effort workouts, as popularized by Westside. Any idea why? What has been your experience with trainees who are non-responders to DE work?
I am unclear what your position on “rep style” is for assistance exercises. Do you still prefer to do them many sets/low reps and stop when they get slow or is it fine to do say 2x10? What about exercises you can’t really do heavy like face pulls?
To take today’s workout as an example, I did low-incline DB presses for 40 total reps. Most of my sets were 8-10 reps. Would you have preferred to do something like 10x4 with 40-60 seconds rest between sets?
Note on question 2. I do realize working up to the max force point is actually (unconventional) “speed work” (it’s the heaviest you can still accelerate, right) and this will usually be heavier than the percentages normally used in DE work (60% is common). Perhaps DE non-responders will make progress with MFP work, which I guess can be thought of as “heavy speed work.” It’s also way more volume than traditional speed work due to the greater load - I do believe total volume is important.
Thanks for your time.[/quote]
Actually, IBB mostly utilizes the training concepts I learned from my years as an olympic lifter and training with powerlifters. I PERSONALLY believe that the methods that will help you gain the most strength will also make you gain the most muscle.
BTW, IBB is just ONE program. And it is the least advanced of those we will put out. Each program is only meant to put a series of training concepts into an application. The important thing is NOT the program, but the concepts. What we do is introduce those concepts then publish a workout applying them. This time around the concepts are ‘the perfect rep’, ‘max force-autoregulation’ and ‘deadstop reps’. So the program will mostly use those.
Once these concepts are mastered we will move on to more advanced ideas.
There is no such thing as trainees who don’t respond to dynamic work. However not all trainees require the same type of dynamic work. While an advanced lifter might benefit from work in the 40-50% range, an intermediate one will probably need a higher percentage for the technique to work.
I normally keep my reps below 6 (up to 5 is fine) although some of my clients go up to 8 on some isolation exercises. The least complex a movement is, the more reps you can do.
[/quote]
Thanks for the response. I’m still scratching my head over my lack of progress on speed work When I ditched DE in favor of reps, I started seeing gains again in both strength and mass. My guesses on why speed work didn’t work for me (or rather, how I was using it wrong):
My weights were too light
I was too skinny (5’10 and 160 - now 170) I have heard the idea that skinny guys don’t respond well to DE work since they don’t have much muscle mass to train and make explosive
Not enough volume. Doing a DE workout and then following that with heavier reps work might have worked. But I just did DE and then some assistance work.
I think I understand the concepts so far but it seems difficult to track progress with this style of training. It seems there will often not be more weight or more total reps.
does the mfp and mlp still appy to explosive exercises such as the power clean. because even working
with 95% you are still lifting the weight explosively. and how would this apply to the training scheme.
note: i did try it with the ramping techinique just going up to about 80-85% and it felt amazing. during my last sets the bar speed was insane and was moving just as fast as the weight on the sets i was starting out with. it felt great to move that weight with such speed and force. just wondering if i should keep it the same or go up to higher percentages.
[quote]Who_Cares wrote:
Chris, I’ll be quick. I train from only two years and I never took any supplements and I don’t need any. My diet is solid. Most of '09 I trained powerlifting-like. I am 17 y/o. Am I good for I,BB or I need to wait more?
It’s a long thread, I couldn’t read it all so I’m sorry if you answered question of this type anywhere.[/quote]
Also, what should be the carb intake for an endo-ecto like me during the program? With less carbs my recovery is slower, but with more carbs I get fat easy. Is there any place to put in few minutes of cardio after some workouts, say, 2-3 times per week?
And another one, is it a problem if I train my limbs separately, like doing the leg extensions one leg at a time?
Could eccentrics or supramaximal holds fit into this type of program? Maybe after you ramp up to your daily max force taking 110-120% of your 1RM and either lowering it or holding it short of lockout then after a short rest trying a new max force set with about 5-10 pounds more than the last. Please let me know what you think.
