New(est) Training Questions

Training
261

[quote]octagon wrote:
Thib, have you or any of your clients experienced a ‘‘lag time’’. I increase my squat greatly but it hasnt transferred to improved times on the track, how long would it take to do this. [/quote]

  1. Not all strength gains transfer to an improvement in performance, even on sport-specific lifts. Zatsiorsky talks about this in his book ‘Science and Practice of Strength Training’. When strength is a limiting factor in performance, strength gains lead to a relatively rapid and significant improvement in athletic performance. But when strength levels are NOT the limit factor in performance, then further gains can lead to no significant progress and it can actually take a huge strength improvement to improve athletic improvement even slightly.

Oftentimes when that happens the athlete lags in strength-speed or in rate of force development. In other words, he’s strong but needs to develop the capacity to produce force FAST.

Max force lifts on the basic lifts (see my posts on ramping and max force training), olympic lifts (if they can be done properly), ballistic exercises (jumps squats, jump lunges, etc.), plyometrics (depth jumps, depth landings) and various jumping drills and throws are often the key to transferring strength gains into athletic performance.

  1. If strength still is a limiting factor, it can still take a while to transfer strength gains into athletic performance. The way I explain this is that when you get stronger, you are changing your body and need to learn to use it. It’s kinda like if you always drove a Honda Civic with an automatic transmission and that I gave you the keys to a Ferrarri with a manual one.

YES the POTENTIAL for better performance is greater with the new car. But at first it may even decrease simply because you can’t properly drive and control the car yet. You have to practice at the wheels of your new vehicule to be able to make the most out of its potential.

Same holds true for the body. You need to practice with your need body to transfer strength gains into performance.

BUT understand that no strength movement or no combination of movements will ever lead to a linear transfer to athletic performance. For example, improving your lifts by 10% will not lead to a 10% improvement on the track.

262

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib,

how should I set up training for a lift that I want to maximally improve (like a spec phase), let’s say weighted chin-ups ? I want to train that lift 3 times/week (mod/wed/fri), no assistance, no lift variations, no more work for this muscle group - just doing the lift itself with a lot of volume. [/quote]

Day 1
Ramping sets of 3 reps up to max force point
Drop down by around 15% and do 5 sets of 5 reps
Drop down by another 10-15% and do 1 set of 10 reps

Day 2
10-12 sets of 3 reps with the weight you used for your sets of 5 on Day 1

Day 3
Ramping sets of 5 reps up to max force point
Continue ramping up, but with sets of 3 reps up to max force point
KEEP THE SAME WEIGHT as with the max force point you reached for 3 reps and perform sets of 2 until you lose speed[/quote]

That looks very fun, thanks!

Do you think one more exercsise for another muscle group (pressing or legs) can be added on each day using the same protocol for it? Or it will be overkill ?

263

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib,

how should I set up training for a lift that I want to maximally improve (like a spec phase), let’s say weighted chin-ups ? I want to train that lift 3 times/week (mod/wed/fri), no assistance, no lift variations, no more work for this muscle group - just doing the lift itself with a lot of volume. [/quote]

Day 1
Ramping sets of 3 reps up to max force point
Drop down by around 15% and do 5 sets of 5 reps
Drop down by another 10-15% and do 1 set of 10 reps

Day 2
10-12 sets of 3 reps with the weight you used for your sets of 5 on Day 1

Day 3
Ramping sets of 5 reps up to max force point
Continue ramping up, but with sets of 3 reps up to max force point
KEEP THE SAME WEIGHT as with the max force point you reached for 3 reps and perform sets of 2 until you lose speed[/quote]

That looks very fun, thanks!

Do you think one more exercsise for another muscle group (pressing or legs) can be added on each day using the same protocol for it? Or it will be overkill ?[/quote]

For a second exercises I would simply do a regular ramp.

264

Thibs,

  1. I’ve heard that lifts above 80% max recruit muscle fibers in a different way, so if the goal is maximum strength, is there any reason to go below 80%? (assuming speed strength is not a limiting factor).

  2. How would a low impact cns session look like? What would be the ideal rep range?

Thank you

265

Coach,

Just a few questions:

  1. I am a very tricep/shoulders dominant presser so when I bench i think they tend to take on most of the workload. In one of your previous posts i remember you mentioning you were the same. I was just wondering how you managed to correct this?

  2. In your “Extended Ramping … More of a Good Thing” thread you mentioned that a Max rep down set is good when attempting to add muscle mass. Would you suggest using this max rep down set for only one exercise for each muscle group a week?

Thanks!

J

266

Hey CT

Am doing Wendler’s 5/3/1 program. Having posted recently + given advise by your good self, I’m going to be ramping up on sets of my assistance exercises. I just wondered a few things:

  1. I’m thinking either RDL or G-mornings going up in sets of 5-6. Which would you recommend in terms of ‘moving the weight as fast as possible?’ - (My lower back often seems to take over)

  2. Would it be prudent to do these after my deadlift workout or my front squat one? (Perhaps fatigue may play it’s part after dead lifting?)

  3. Would it be ‘lower back’ overkill doing both movements in the same week, on each of the lower body days? - If so, what other excercise would you recommend? Legs curls? Or perhaps GHR? (not sure how I’d ramp up with those badboys though)

  4. Lastly. I’m going with leg presses alternated with a hams exercise. Any thoughts on another quad excercise I could alternate with a hams one? ( I was doing short step bulgarian squats alt with back extensions - still felt like I was hitting the hams a little on the BS - could do with on excercise that targets the quads a little better)

I know there’s quite a bit there CT, but your advise is always appreciated + taken on board. (I’ve put 9lbs LEAN MASS in the last 11-12 weeks and am enjoying my training more than ever!)
Thanks
Moogweasel

267

[quote]Mondy wrote:
Thibs,

  1. I’ve heard that lifts above 80% max recruit muscle fibers in a different way, so if the goal is maximum strength, is there any reason to go below 80%? (assuming speed strength is not a limiting factor).

  2. How would a low impact cns session look like? What would be the ideal rep range?

Thank you[/quote]

  1. Yes there still is. Weights below 80%, if accelerated maximally DO lead to a near-maximal force output. Even though they might not translate directly into an improvement in the display of a 1RM (though that is opened to debate) they will still improve maximum strength.

The 80% = different recruitment pattern is often misinterpreted. This comes from old Soviet technique analysis of the snatch and clean-and-jerk which found that TECHNIQUE (not necessarily muscle recruitment) had the tendency to be different with weights below and above 80%.

To me this means more that if your sports involves displaying a 1 rep maximum (powerlifting, olympic lifting) then the technique you develop with weights below 80% might not be stable enough for you to showcase your strength during maximal lifts. It also means that technical corrections, while they can be made with very light weights, need to be solidified by practicing them with heavier weights.

But to me, if you want to develop maximum strength and size you need to train across the whole force spectrum.

  1. It’s NOT ABOUT AN IDEAL REP RANGE. GOD I’m so tired of people being so narrow-minded. You are missing the boat completely. A set of 1 rep can be non CNS-intensive and a set of 15 reps can be neurally draining even though by ‘common dogma’ low reps are CNS-draining and high reps are easy on the CNS.

To me, what IS draining or CNS-intensive is when you get super close (of even reach) to your one of your maximum. In lifting weights I see two things as being maximally stressful on the CNS: going for a maximum lift or reaching total muscle failure or beyond.

I’m not saying that one of these two things will overtrain the CNS if done one in a workout; but that the more often these occur in a workout, the more stressful on the CNS it is.

268

[quote]moogweasel wrote:
Hey CT

Am doing Wendler’s 5/3/1 program. Having posted recently + given advise by your good self, I’m going to be ramping up on sets of my assistance exercises. I just wondered a few things:

  1. I’m thinking either RDL or G-mornings going up in sets of 5-6. Which would you recommend in terms of ‘moving the weight as fast as possible?’ - (My lower back often seems to take over)

  2. Would it be prudent to do these after my deadlift workout or my front squat one? (Perhaps fatigue may play it’s part after dead lifting?)

  3. Would it be ‘lower back’ overkill doing both movements in the same week, on each of the lower body days? - If so, what other excercise would you recommend? Legs curls? Or perhaps GHR? (not sure how I’d ramp up with those badboys though)

  4. Lastly. I’m going with leg presses alternated with a hams exercise. Any thoughts on another quad excercise I could alternate with a hams one? ( I was doing short step bulgarian squats alt with back extensions - still felt like I was hitting the hams a little on the BS - could do with on excercise that targets the quads a little better)
    I know there’s quite a bit there CT, but your advise is always appreciated + taken on board. (I’ve put 9lbs LEAN MASS in the last 11-12 weeks and am enjoying my training more than ever!)
    Thanks
    Moogweasel[/quote]

  5. The RDL without a doubt

  6. Not after only 3 sets. Yeah, the max rep set will be hard on the lower back as it will probably give you a pump, but one other pull will not kill you. When I was competing as an olympic lifter a typical session included a snatch variation, a clean and jerk variation, a pull (clean or snatch pull from the floor, hang or blocks) and a basic strength movement (squat, front squat, deadlift, snatch-grip deadlift, push press, etc.) and we all survived.

If you are tired you simply won’t be able to ramp up for very long on the RDL… in which case you’ll do less work, but the work you will have done is the maximum you could have handled without screwing yourself.

  1. I’ll again refer you to my olympic lifting days… we did the type of workout mentionned above 6 days a week, sometimes twice a day.

All olympic lifters from novice up to elite do at least 2-3 movements that involve the lower back at each session (so at least 3 times a week and up to 10 workouts per week). Farmers in the 50s used to trash their lower back in the fields 10 hours a day.

You’ll survive.

Especially if you use ramping and autoregulation, then your volume will automatically be adjusted to what your body can handle on those days.

  1. Sissy squats, barbell hack squats, trap bar deadlifts
269

CT

Thanks for your time. I’ll stop being such a pussy and just get stuck in.
Would the machine hack squat be a decent sub for bb hack squats? (feet close together - close in/toes out - maybe heels elevated? )
If not I’ll go with sissy squats, ramping up by holding a heaver db each set.

Cheers

Moogweasel

270

CT

Just something I would like to add to my previous post.

  1. Some methods for building shoulders take a higher volume approach - ‘delt triad’ + other methods where giant sets combining different delt exercises are used.(often each set could be as many as 45 reps) As an assistance exercise I’d like to incorporate some type of lateral movement for my shoulders. Could a giant set approach still be effective, maybe keeping each exercise within the set at <5 reps? Or would straight sets of lateral raises, ramping up work better? ( I thought I could do a different variation on each upper body day - single arm lean away laterals + seated 45 degree laterals)
  2. Would face-pulls or rope pulls to neck still be <5/6 reps ramping up? with a max set 10%-15% on the last set?

Thanks

Moogweasel

271

Thank you for the reply, it really helps clear up the confusion.

How does this deadlift workout look?

Rep range depends on cns state.

Deadlift on platform

Deadlift from knees

Speed deadlift from floor.

Merci.

272

Maybe I missed it, but as timmcbride00’s questions been answered, he’s the guy who posted his squat videos on page #9. I think the answer would be very informative.

I have the same problem.

273

Coach.
It’s kinda long…

http://img402.imageshack.us/...tnp1020679.jpg/ Me is in the middle (red shirt)

Okay. Basicly - I’m intrested in specifying my training for MA.
I’m 6"4’ (195cm tall). I weight about 220pounds (100kg). I’m 16yrs old. I’m about 10-12% bodyfat.

A year and a half ago i started some Karate Kyokushin. I’ve lasted 6months. I decided to use my summer for GPP and then switch to Muay Thai.

I’ve started Weight training about less than a year ago. At fist i was just “trying” to manage the technique of the basic lifts.
For about 5-6 months i’ve trained heavy.

Warm-up - foam roller+ magnificent mobility(i do it every day - sometimes twice)

Mostly basic moves like deadlifts, squats, military presses and weighted push-ups. I don’t perform bench-pressing (in MA u don’t lock your scapula)

Deadlift: 165kg with supinated grip (no straps, no belt) - i did it right after i pulled 160 with neutral grip. I could do more, but i had to play it smart that day.
My squat - 140kg - 5reps.
My military press - 50kg for 5 reps.
My push-ups - 30kg weight plates on my back - 5 reps

I plan on having 3xMuayThai; 2xWeights; 1xVolleyball. I wanted to do plyometrics, but snow doesn’t allow me. So i’m going for 3xMT instead of 2x.

I’m on Low-Carb Hight Fat diet. I eat as much as i like. Which in most cases (daily) is:

200-250gr Butter; 0,7-1kg meat; 8-10eggs; 4-5 Tomatoes; Some White Cheese; some Wallnuts (not more that 100gr, usually about 50); 2-3 apples and a slice of bread.

I haven’t used any supplements so far but i plan on using Biotest’s Creatine Monohydrate.

I use some bananas+milk (liquid - with mixer) - before and during weight traning.
I might do the same for MA. Cuz as far as i’ve heard - really low carbs and martial arts aren’t best buddies.

During spring i will do a fat-burn month.

Questions:

Right now i wanna know something. Do i really go to gym 2 a week? Some coaches from my country (pretty decent ones) have told me to aim more for sports and less for weightroom.

My plan is to get my strength 2xbodyweight and then perform power & strength endurance training mostly.

Also i wanna know this. Hence i’m a fighter i gotta add some crunches. How do i balance them? I mean - end up with proper/balanced posture. So far i’m doing palof presses; renegade rows; ab rollers.
Will buy med ball soon.

And how about tornado ball?

274

coach i want to ask you why use thick bar in push and curl exercises?your last article is awesome.a ton of new information.merry christmas to you and in your family.

275

Hi Coach,

I am about to begin a max hypertrophy 2 a day training phase(6x3 in the AM and 5x5 in the PM)using the following split, which I am sure you will approve:

PUSH - (Quad, Chest, Shoulders, Triceps)
PULL - (Hip Dom, Back, Biceps)
OFF
REPEAT

My question/s for you:

  1. What push exercise/s would you recommend during the AM work for an athlete with longer limbs?

My understanding/experience is that DB work gives me a better FEEL for the muscle working, comparing to the BB bench, but ramping etc and sets of 3 don’t work SO well with DB’s due to the inability to ramp up the weight slowly.

Thanks for all your help,
GJ

276

Coach Thib - I have an interesting question about SRP Twitch Turnaround

I’m going to get all Powerlifty on you…so stay with me.

What are your thoughts on me using a loose denim bench shirt or even a board press once I have identified my SRP Twitch Turnaround zone.

So in other words, if I determine my turnaround zone is 3 inches from my chest, I can use x # of boards on my chest at that height or ideally a denim bench short which will start to become tight once I hit that zone and act as a perfect reminder when to twitch turnaround ( it also provides a level of safety )

I personally struggle with the thought of losing chest muscle size by not allowing the bar to touch my chest ( that final 4 inches under the SRP Twitch Turnaround )

I am however willing to try this because I am developing lasting shoulder pain in my rear shoulder area when I bench to my chest.

Thanks and Happy Holidays
Bald

277

CT,

I just saw your post about your current training plan in the perfect rep thread. I am in a very similar situation to you right now; I’m a former weightlifter who has been doing bodybuilding/general strength training for the last few years. I’m a lot bigger and stronger now than when I was weightlifting and am keen to throw in a few oly lifts again to realise my new potential in them. I really like the look of the template below and was wondering if you would mind fleshing it out a bit. I’m particularly interested in how the power exercise is programmed. Also are the strength lifts all given equal focus each day and what sort of volume are you using for them (just a single ramp or ramp followed by 5x5 etc.)

Thanks for you help,
Calis

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
2. Actually, right now I’m training this way:

DAY 1.
Exercise 1. Lower body power exercise
Exercise 2. Lower body deadlift-dominant
Exercise 3a. Upper body horizontal pull
Exercise 3b. Upper body horizontal push

DAY 2.
Exercise 1. Lower body power exercise
Exercise 2. Lower body squat-dominant
Exercise 3a. Upper body vertical pull
Exercise 3b. Upper body vertical push

DAY 3.
Repeat day 1 with different exercises

DAY 4.
Repeat day 2 with different exercises

DAY 5.
Beach work
[/quote]

278

coach could i ask a question for doubles technique or is waste of your time?

279

CT
What do you think of this split/exercise selection - im not doing legs but just upperbody for now.
Monday (push)
Flat bench - sets of 3 ramped up as described in your article “the perfect rep”
Db incline bench 3x8-10 (or should i do reps of 3 here also?)
Db Lateral raises 3x8-10
Tricep cable pushdowns 3x8-10

Tuesday - pull
Lat pulldown ramped top set of 3
Dumbell/cable rows 3x8-10
Face pulls 3x12-15
Bicep curls 3x8-10

wed -rest
Thurs (push)
pretty much the same cept, low angle incline barbell bench for first exercise ramped -
Flat bench dumbells
the rest is the same.

Friday
pull- pretty much the same as the previous “pulL” day

Thanks!

280

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib,

how should I set up training for a lift that I want to maximally improve (like a spec phase), let’s say weighted chin-ups ? I want to train that lift 3 times/week (mod/wed/fri), no assistance, no lift variations, no more work for this muscle group - just doing the lift itself with a lot of volume. [/quote]

Day 1
Ramping sets of 3 reps up to max force point
Drop down by around 15% and do 5 sets of 5 reps
Drop down by another 10-15% and do 1 set of 10 reps

Day 2
10-12 sets of 3 reps with the weight you used for your sets of 5 on Day 1

Day 3
Ramping sets of 5 reps up to max force point
Continue ramping up, but with sets of 3 reps up to max force point
KEEP THE SAME WEIGHT as with the max force point you reached for 3 reps and perform sets of 2 until you lose speed[/quote]

Thib, I did Day 1 of this program for weighted pull-ups (neutral grip) and it was very good.

I have a few questions if you don’t mind :

  1. I’m wondering maybe some type of ramping would be better for Day 2 ? Just a while ago I loved this type of work (10+ straight sets of 2-3 reps), but I see what you have said about the same weight becoming “auto-piloted” after 2-3 sets (I felt it myself as I become more and more effecient with the same weight after 4-5 sets), so I’d rather do a kind of ramping if you find it optimal.

  2. My max force set for 3 reps appears to be only +20 kg. So if I go for 5 reps on Day 3 it will be super low volume (probably 5,10 kg and unlikely +15 kg), so 3-4 sets total including the unweighted one.

Then when I continiune to ramp to 3 reps it will most likely be only 1 more set (+15 or +20 kg), if at all.

Should this day be changed somehow because of these reasons ?

(note : my gym has only a stupid hook for hanging the weight, allowing only 1 plate at a time, so I’m limited to +5 kg jumps only, besides the 2.5 kg plate.)