New(est) Training Questions

[quote]jonnyblaze wrote:
I have a question that deals with the topic of “trainability” that you have discussed before. My sense is that many training systems that focus on changing up the rep schemes (the “Nothing works forever” crowd) are in fact chasing this phenomenon (for example, while you’re doing heavier/low-rep work, your trainabilty for moderate rep work increases and then you switch, and vice versa). It seems like your thoughts on autoregulation are in direct contradiction with this line of thinking, EXCEPT that you are a proponent of specialization, which inherently allows for an increase in the trainability of the muscles that are just coming out of the maintenance phase.

I guess my question then becomes, does the effectiveness of your lower-rep autoregulation system really ultimately depend on using periods of specialization? Or can the system be just as effective without specialization (or at least more effective than more traditional models of periodization)? If so, how is this quality of trainability increased while keeping the reps low? (maybe through other mechanisms like switching the movements over time, etc.?) [/quote]

Simply changing rep schemes will NOT restore trainability. The action of varying rep schemes simply to give your body a change in stimulus is flawed. You are simply training an energy system that might have been neglected, as you improve it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are gaining muscle or strength, but rather that the new energy system is becoming more efficient at fueling the movement and the body more efficient at getting rid of the metabolic by products.

The same holds true for always changing around your exercises. This often gives the ILLUSION of progress. When you switch to a new exercise, the improvements over the first 2-3 weeks are neural in nature (you basically become more efficient at doing the movement). It is only once the movement and fiber recruitment pattern is stable and engrained that maximal muscular growth can be achieved.

By changing your exercises too frequentely you get the false sense of progress because you are always in a state of learning a new movement, but the actual size gains are not significant.

Case in point… Bulgarian olympic lifters perform only 6 lifts in training, which are actually 4 lifts and 2 variations:

  • Snatch
  • Power snatch
  • Clean and jerk
  • Power clean
  • Back squat
  • Front squat

And their lifters still progress from year to year. In fact this model of training has now gained popularity among all the top olympic lifting countries, who have now disregarded the old system which included using a lot of different training exercises.

And look at the top bodybuilders. They are normally creatures of habits; they do not include much exercise, sets and reps variation in their training. Yet they are bigger from one year to the next. Heck, Dorian Yates stayed on the exact same routine for 5 years straight!

I think that the fact is that muscle growth and strength gains never occurs as fast as we would want. Changing your body is an emotional issue and it can never happen fast enough. So I think that the false sense of progress from switching from one program to the next feeds into that need for being reassured about our progress.

There is also the factor that since transforming our body is an emotional issue that never happens as fast as we would like, we tend to believe that the ‘next program’ might be the one that will unlock all that growth we’ve been dreaming about.

It is actually simpler than that… learn how to perform the perfect rep, autoregulate, change only when you need to accomplish a different goal. That’s it.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jonnyblaze wrote:
I have a question that deals with the topic of “trainability” that you have discussed before. My sense is that many training systems that focus on changing up the rep schemes (the “Nothing works forever” crowd) are in fact chasing this phenomenon (for example, while you’re doing heavier/low-rep work, your trainabilty for moderate rep work increases and then you switch, and vice versa). It seems like your thoughts on autoregulation are in direct contradiction with this line of thinking, EXCEPT that you are a proponent of specialization, which inherently allows for an increase in the trainability of the muscles that are just coming out of the maintenance phase.

I guess my question then becomes, does the effectiveness of your lower-rep autoregulation system really ultimately depend on using periods of specialization? Or can the system be just as effective without specialization (or at least more effective than more traditional models of periodization)? If so, how is this quality of trainability increased while keeping the reps low? (maybe through other mechanisms like switching the movements over time, etc.?) [/quote]

Simply changing rep schemes will NOT restore trainability. The action of varying rep schemes simply to give your body a change in stimulus is flawed. You are simply training an energy system that might have been neglected, as you improve it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are gaining muscle or strength, but rather that the new energy system is becoming more efficient at fueling the movement and the body more efficient at getting rid of the metabolic by products.

The same holds true for always changing around your exercises. This often gives the ILLUSION of progress. When you switch to a new exercise, the improvements over the first 2-3 weeks are neural in nature (you basically become more efficient at doing the movement). It is only once the movement and fiber recruitment pattern is stable and engrained that maximal muscular growth can be achieved.

By changing your exercises too frequentely you get the false sense of progress because you are always in a state of learning a new movement, but the actual size gains are not significant.

Case in point… Bulgarian olympic lifters perform only 6 lifts in training, which are actually 4 lifts and 2 variations:

  • Snatch
  • Power snatch
  • Clean and jerk
  • Power clean
  • Back squat
  • Front squat

And their lifters still progress from year to year. In fact this model of training has now gained popularity among all the top olympic lifting countries, who have now disregarded the old system which included using a lot of different training exercises.

And look at the top bodybuilders. They are normally creatures of habits; they do not include much exercise, sets and reps variation in their training. Yet they are bigger from one year to the next. Heck, Dorian Yates stayed on the exact same routine for 5 years straight!

I think that the fact is that muscle growth and strength gains never occurs as fast as we would want. Changing your body is an emotional issue and it can never happen fast enough. So I think that the false sense of progress from switching from one program to the next feeds into that need for being reassured about our progress.

There is also the factor that since transforming our body is an emotional issue that never happens as fast as we would like, we tend to believe that the ‘next program’ might be the one that will unlock all that growth we’ve been dreaming about.

It is actually simpler than that… learn how to perform the perfect rep, autoregulate, change only when you need to accomplish a different goal. That’s it.[/quote]

Fantastic post. This should be a sticky somewhere.

Case in point, I only began to see significant gains when I stopped being so fickle with my training, and just gutted my way through a basic routine for a long time. Definitely wasn’t a perfect training system or anything, but results speak for themselves.

Thib:

I’m a natural puller, have long arms, high wide hips and semi-long legs. Which makes me good for deadlifting, poor for squating and terrible for bench pressing (or any press).

Any advice you can give me regarding the bench press technique (closer grip?) and if i should be training differently for the big three (narrow squats?, sumo deads?).

[quote]mabbott29 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jonnyblaze wrote:
I have a question that deals with the topic of “trainability” that you have discussed before. My sense is that many training systems that focus on changing up the rep schemes (the “Nothing works forever” crowd) are in fact chasing this phenomenon (for example, while you’re doing heavier/low-rep work, your trainabilty for moderate rep work increases and then you switch, and vice versa). It seems like your thoughts on autoregulation are in direct contradiction with this line of thinking, EXCEPT that you are a proponent of specialization, which inherently allows for an increase in the trainability of the muscles that are just coming out of the maintenance phase.

I guess my question then becomes, does the effectiveness of your lower-rep autoregulation system really ultimately depend on using periods of specialization? Or can the system be just as effective without specialization (or at least more effective than more traditional models of periodization)? If so, how is this quality of trainability increased while keeping the reps low? (maybe through other mechanisms like switching the movements over time, etc.?) [/quote]

Simply changing rep schemes will NOT restore trainability. The action of varying rep schemes simply to give your body a change in stimulus is flawed. You are simply training an energy system that might have been neglected, as you improve it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are gaining muscle or strength, but rather that the new energy system is becoming more efficient at fueling the movement and the body more efficient at getting rid of the metabolic by products.

The same holds true for always changing around your exercises. This often gives the ILLUSION of progress. When you switch to a new exercise, the improvements over the first 2-3 weeks are neural in nature (you basically become more efficient at doing the movement). It is only once the movement and fiber recruitment pattern is stable and engrained that maximal muscular growth can be achieved.

By changing your exercises too frequentely you get the false sense of progress because you are always in a state of learning a new movement, but the actual size gains are not significant.

Case in point… Bulgarian olympic lifters perform only 6 lifts in training, which are actually 4 lifts and 2 variations:

  • Snatch
  • Power snatch
  • Clean and jerk
  • Power clean
  • Back squat
  • Front squat

And their lifters still progress from year to year. In fact this model of training has now gained popularity among all the top olympic lifting countries, who have now disregarded the old system which included using a lot of different training exercises.

And look at the top bodybuilders. They are normally creatures of habits; they do not include much exercise, sets and reps variation in their training. Yet they are bigger from one year to the next. Heck, Dorian Yates stayed on the exact same routine for 5 years straight!

I think that the fact is that muscle growth and strength gains never occurs as fast as we would want. Changing your body is an emotional issue and it can never happen fast enough. So I think that the false sense of progress from switching from one program to the next feeds into that need for being reassured about our progress.

There is also the factor that since transforming our body is an emotional issue that never happens as fast as we would like, we tend to believe that the ‘next program’ might be the one that will unlock all that growth we’ve been dreaming about.

It is actually simpler than that… learn how to perform the perfect rep, autoregulate, change only when you need to accomplish a different goal. That’s it.[/quote]

Fantastic post. This should be a sticky somewhere.

Case in point, I only began to see significant gains when I stopped being so fickle with my training, and just gutted my way through a basic routine for a long time. Definitely wasn’t a perfect training system or anything, but results speak for themselves.
[/quote]
Thanks for such a well thought-out response coach. I agree this should be stickied somewhere. I think your comments about the emotional aspect of things and our ability to trick ourselves into thinking we’re making progress are particularly important. Personally, I’m FINALLY learning to take the long-term view and it makes all the difference in the world!

My only follow-up question is then how important are the spec phases and the concept of trainability within the context of autoregulation and the perfect rep? Really only necessary for those at an advanced level who would have trouble making gains across the board/need to bring up weak areas OR a vital part of any training program?

Thibs,

What are some of your favorite “upper” chest exercises? How wide is your grip on incline bench presses?

[quote]Mondy wrote:
Thibs,

What are some of your favorite “upper” chest exercises? How wide is your grip on incline bench presses?[/quote]

Honestly I rarely use much ‘fine movement’ to bring up an area of a muscle. From experience, if you bench press 400+ your upper chest won’t be lagging!

And I rarely do incline pressing because I actually see it more as a shoulders exercise, especially since I personally have dominating shoulders.

If one absolutely want to do more direct ‘upper chest’ work, I suggest wide grip bench press to the neck.

Thib,

I know that compound barbell exercises are bread and butter however ( and I think Poliquin agrees ) 1 arm dumbell rows are better at hitting the target muscles of the back vs. barbell rows which quickly lose focus on the targeted muscles of the back once you get into heavier weights …starts killing your lowerback, hammies and glutes etc.

Thoughts? (not pitting you against Poliquin…just curious)

Bald

Hey CT, really appreciate all the free information you give. I’ve learned more in the past 2 weeks than in the past 2 years before that!

My question is: Are you taking on any clients? I have a month off in the spring and would be willing to fly to where ever you are for a few weeks to train. My goal is to pack on some mass but more importantly I want to master the perfect rep for all the basic exercises. I’ve put on 30 lbs. of muscle but still am a relative novice. I’m guessing you’re used to working with more advanced athletes. But if you’re interested, what would be the best way to contact you?

Thibs

I have been using your ramping protocol for about three weeks now an dI have to say I love it. I have been hitting pr’s all over the place. My question is do you use the same ramping in training for fat loss like in your article Deconstructing Fat? Also with your diet advise in Refined fat loss can I use 2 grow shakes in place of solid food? (Ex. meal1, shake,meal2, postworkout, meal 3, shake) And can I use Surge Workout Fuel and still fit it in with my carb totals ( i am 15% and 222). I have only been using one serving pre workout and love that stuff, I feel like I can dominate the weights. Thanks for all your advise.

Hopefully this all makes sense, it is 330am and I am up off and on with a crying baby.

Thanks
Matt

Coach

Specialization of chest and triceps, I choose heavy, density and volume for pecs. Do you recommend the same patter for triceps? Or it’s possible split in long, lateral and mendial. I’m a bit confused how organize a sense workout for triceps.

Thanks

Thibs: In your book ‘Theory and Application of Modern Strength and Power Methods’ (long name btw) you talk a bit about adding stretch bands to the barbells… I had never heard about that before, but it seems smart… I was just wondering if you use them in your own training? And if you believe that they would be worth the investment for someone who have been training for only 2 years.

Also: Do you use EMS systems yourself? I actually have a clinical (very expensive) one that I bought before I started training, maybe I should try that again? How do you recommend incorporating that in my training? What about 5-10 minutes right after my workouts?

Hey Coach, Im using a Westside type of template fo training. I’m a football player and I want to train twice a day four times a week (run in the morning and lift in the afternoon). My question is do you think i will overtrain if I include sled pulls post workout on my lowerbody days with the Anaconda protocol? Another question is what is the most optimal way to utilized the protocol with my workout running and lifting 4 times a week? I’m prone to overtraining so this information would be more than valuable. I plan on hitting 6 sets of 30 yards for forward and backward drags. Here is an example of my lifting workout plan for one week. I also deload every 4th or 5th weeks. Any feed back would be great! Thanks and have a great day.

	Squat	Bench Press	Box Jump					
	580	480	50					

Monday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Bonus Set
Cls-Gp BP 5rm 237.6 270 302.4 334.8 367.2
Incl. DB BP 10x 105.84 105.84 105.84
Kroc Row 12x pk wt pk wt pk wt
DB Shrug 30 sec pk wt pk wt pk wt
Skullcrush 12x pk wt pk wt pk wt
DB curl 12x(drop)pk wt pk wt pk wt

Tuesday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6 Set 7 Set 8
Dynamic Sqt 2 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290
Box Jump 5 43.5 43.5 43.5
Wlkg Lunge 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Sgl Leg RDL 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Ab Circuit 3 rounds Sprint Sit-up-20 Twists-20 Side bridge- 45 sec

Thursday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6 Set 7 Set 8
Dyn. BP 3 240 240 240 240 240 240 240 240
Box Push Ups 5 body wt body wt body wt
Wtd Pull Ups 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
3-Way Raise 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
BB Curl/Dips 10/10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Bnd Psh Dwn 100 band

Friday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Bonus Set
Deadlift 5rm 328.57 373.375 418.18 462.985 507.79
DB Swings 12 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Split Squat 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Glute-Ham 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Abs- Bar Work 6 pck wt pck wt pck wt

Thib,

how should I set up training for a lift that I want to maximally improve (like a spec phase), let’s say weighted chin-ups ? I want to train that lift 3 times/week (mod/wed/fri), no assistance, no lift variations, no more work for this muscle group - just doing the lift itself with a lot of volume.

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib,

how should I set up training for a lift that I want to maximally improve (like a spec phase), let’s say weighted chin-ups ? I want to train that lift 3 times/week (mod/wed/fri), no assistance, no lift variations, no more work for this muscle group - just doing the lift itself with a lot of volume. [/quote]

Day 1
Ramping sets of 3 reps up to max force point
Drop down by around 15% and do 5 sets of 5 reps
Drop down by another 10-15% and do 1 set of 10 reps

Day 2
10-12 sets of 3 reps with the weight you used for your sets of 5 on Day 1

Day 3
Ramping sets of 5 reps up to max force point
Continue ramping up, but with sets of 3 reps up to max force point
KEEP THE SAME WEIGHT as with the max force point you reached for 3 reps and perform sets of 2 until you lose speed

[quote]lvar11 wrote:
Hey Coach, Im using a Westside type of template fo training. I’m a football player and I want to train twice a day four times a week (run in the morning and lift in the afternoon). My question is do you think i will overtrain if I include sled pulls post workout on my lowerbody days with the Anaconda protocol? Another question is what is the most optimal way to utilized the protocol with my workout running and lifting 4 times a week? I’m prone to overtraining so this information would be more than valuable. I plan on hitting 6 sets of 30 yards for forward and backward drags. Here is an example of my lifting workout plan for one week. I also deload every 4th or 5th weeks. Any feed back would be great! Thanks and have a great day.

	Squat	Bench Press	Box Jump					
	580	480	50					

Monday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Bonus Set
Cls-Gp BP 5rm 237.6 270 302.4 334.8 367.2
Incl. DB BP 10x 105.84 105.84 105.84
Kroc Row 12x pk wt pk wt pk wt
DB Shrug 30 sec pk wt pk wt pk wt
Skullcrush 12x pk wt pk wt pk wt
DB curl 12x(drop)pk wt pk wt pk wt

Tuesday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6 Set 7 Set 8
Dynamic Sqt 2 290 290 290 290 290 290 290 290
Box Jump 5 43.5 43.5 43.5
Wlkg Lunge 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Sgl Leg RDL 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Ab Circuit 3 rounds Sprint Sit-up-20 Twists-20 Side bridge- 45 sec

Thursday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Set 6 Set 7 Set 8
Dyn. BP 3 240 240 240 240 240 240 240 240
Box Push Ups 5 body wt body wt body wt
Wtd Pull Ups 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
3-Way Raise 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
BB Curl/Dips 10/10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Bnd Psh Dwn 100 band

Friday Reps Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 Set 4 Set 5 Bonus Set
Deadlift 5rm 328.57 373.375 418.18 462.985 507.79
DB Swings 12 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Split Squat 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Glute-Ham 10 pck wt pck wt pck wt
Abs- Bar Work 6 pck wt pck wt pck wt
[/quote]

If you read my various post-articles you’ll see that I’m really against planning the weight you will lift in advance. Assuming that you can predict what your body can and should lift on any given day is dumb.

The body’s capacities fluctuate from day to day depending on your fatigue level, mental stress, nutrition status, hormonal fluctuations, etc. Since you cannot predict what your body will be capable of doing, how the hell can you predict what it will need to grow?

Read my posts on:

‘What isn’t that important…’
‘The perfect rep’
‘Autoregulation’

[quote]fredarn wrote:
Thibs: In your book ‘Theory and Application of Modern Strength and Power Methods’ (long name btw) you talk a bit about adding stretch bands to the barbells… I had never heard about that before, but it seems smart… I was just wondering if you use them in your own training? And if you believe that they would be worth the investment for someone who have been training for only 2 years.

Also: Do you use EMS systems yourself? I actually have a clinical (very expensive) one that I bought before I started training, maybe I should try that again? How do you recommend incorporating that in my training? What about 5-10 minutes right after my workouts?[/quote]

  1. Have you been living in a cave? Added jumpstretch bands resistance has been used in powerlifting circles for more than a decade and is now one of the most popular method in the strength training field. Do a web search for ‘accomodating resistance’, ‘westside bands’, ‘powerlifting bands’, etc. You’ll find more info then you can read in a month!

  2. I do use EMS for two specific purposes:

  • If an athlete is injured and can’t train a muscle group with weights.
  • To sensitize a stubborn muscle group’s fast twitch fiber to receiving an impulse

In that later case, the EMS will not really lead to a lot of growth, but over time it can help you recruit more fast twitch fibers in a stubborn muscle group. The reason why it’s stubborn often is that you are inefficient at recruiting the growth-prone fast twitch fibers.

CT,

In the recent T-muscle twitter article you said that guys with long torso and short arms have to do a lot of assistance work for the deadlift. I’m such guy myself and my deadlift improves much slower than other big lifts. What are your favorite deadlift assistance exercises for individuals who have this sort of mechanical disadvantage? For me personally the lockout seems to be the strong point of my deadlift.

[quote]Evander wrote:
CT,

In the recent T-muscle twitter article you said that guys with long torso and short arms have to do a lot of assistance work for the deadlift. I’m such guy myself and my deadlift improves much slower than other big lifts. What are your favorite deadlift assistance exercises for individuals who have this sort of mechanical disadvantage? For me personally the lockout seems to be the strong point of my deadlift.[/quote]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Evander wrote:
CT,

In the recent T-muscle twitter article you said that guys with long torso and short arms have to do a lot of assistance work for the deadlift. I’m such guy myself and my deadlift improves much slower than other big lifts. What are your favorite deadlift assistance exercises for individuals who have this sort of mechanical disadvantage? For me personally the lockout seems to be the strong point of my deadlift.[/quote]

Thanks. Dunno how I managed to miss this one.

Thib, have you or any of your clients experienced a ‘‘lag time’’. I increase my squat greatly but it hasnt transferred to improved times on the track, how long would it take to do this.