== Scott==
What I find interesting is that some time ago I posted some videos talking about the dangers to the shoulders from such exercises as dips and overhead presses etc and very little feedback came back? When you’re young and feeling invulnerable you don’t think a thing of doing pretty much anything spoken of but when you get older these concerns start to pop into you’re head. Dips and certain over head presses seem to be standard exercises everyone uses but some say they can be dangerous to the shoulder joint ? What are your thoughts on this ?
== Scott ==
Is anyone else on here concerned with this shoulder issue or is it just me?
I’m concerned enough to avoid these altogether after I first saw you mention it. Thanks.
The only exercises I avoid are shrugs, upright rows and behind the neck presses…
Nautilus pullovers, nautilus chest and nautilus shoulder presses with palms facing each other, lateral raises are all fine with no discomfort
The amount of fear in here concerning exercises that aren’t inherently bad for your shoulders is interesting. Years of bad cues have caused people tons of problems - “pin your shoulders down”, “lock your shoulders back”, “don’t let your knees go over your toes” - the human body is made to move through overhead range of motions, and knees are made to withstand flexion. You can avoid pain by avoiding exercises, but you’re exacerbating weaknesses and if you find yourself having to handle something overhead, you’ll be far more likely to injure yourself than somebody who trains through full ranges of motion.
I avoided all this stuff because I tore my labrum in my shoulder, and I avoided pain, but any time I did something overhead in every day life, it was uncomfortable. Now I train to strengthen my shoulders in all planes. My knees sucked after the Marines, so I never let them go over my toes - but then you go to run, and lo and behold, your knees naturally travel over your toes and in “compromising” angles, and then it hurts even more because you haven’t done it.
Avoiding pain does not mean you have solved the problems that were causing the pain.
Edit: I’ll add, upright rows do mimic the conditions that cause impingement. But none of the other exercises I saw mentioned do.
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I’ve never experienced pain from any exercise and never had any injuries. I shoulder press, dip, bench, flye, incline bench, incline flye. Nothing has ever bothered my shoulders, so I have no fear of these exercises. I respect the potential for damage, so I always use strict form and a fairly slow cadences and full range of motion. I suspect people that are getting hurt on these movements are either performing the exercise incorrectly, using too much weight, training with a volume and frequency that they can’t recover from, or perhaps using improper form.
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The whole “stop if it hurts” thing can apply to some situations, but people seem to forget that there’s another option - it hurts because you’re doing it wrong.
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I stopped All shoulder presses. Pain subsided!
Shoulder impingement is real and to be avoided. No upright rows, no lateral raises, no face pulls. Bench press stopped with elbows even with torso-no stretching on bench presses. No Db flies.
== Scott ==
Then how did you work the delts?
I’ve never really been injured lifting weights (except doing dead lifts wrong when I was a kid) but was injured several times from bike wrecks and getting hit in the knee with a golf ball. Mashed up my shoulder and back from several bike races/ wrecks and a misguided golf ball busted up my knee causing both knees to weaken in the long run. At 68 it seems stupid to do an exercise that is questionable when there might be an alternative that is safer and equally effective. Bill Desimone where are you when I need you, ha ha!
Scott
I can get all the shoulder work and pain I need working in my yard with a pickax, shovel, and sledge hammer.
That’s too generalized a description. Overhead Presses are the only verboten exercise per my ART chiropractor. Lateral Raises are fine, but do NOT go above the point where your upper arms are parallel to the floor.
Performance Adjustment (PT prescribed): Put your thumbs up and rotate the arms forward 30 degrees (the DBs will be somewhat out in front of the body, instead of directly out to the sides).
I no longer ignore the rotator cuffs either. I mildly strained my rear rotator cuff doing something stupid (not training related), and started doing these exercises which mimic lateral raises really.
I recall some studies discussed by Jerry Brainum that showed how a number of people in nursing homes who practically have to be spoon-fed is because their muscles have atrophied. Basically, these people went their entire life never really using or exerting their muscles and by their 70s-80s+ they are in this condition. Use or lose it. Some studies have also shown how people no longer need walkers after strength training.
The pros of proper strength training are indisputable. The problem is, what a lot of people do is pretty bad. Poor form, excessively heavy lifting, riskier movements, etc. Most don’t get the proper instruction and especially if starting at a young age where you think you are indestructible. By mid age or sooner, you realize it’s not the case but some damage might have already been.
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I remember straining my rotor cuff trying heavy weighted chins. A friend of mine tore his rotor cuff tossing a bag of trash.
Scott
swapped yesterday to 1+ 2- and it made a world of difference. Had to use a few new machines because, well, Monday folks, and my workout went much better, the pump was better and today I feel a lot better.
Still going to ride this for 2 weeks and then do a few weeks heavy. If that makes me feel like garbage I will come back
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Speaking of working delts without overhead presses etc does anyone have any suggestions how to get a real burn in my delts like I can get in my biceps? It seems no matter how hard I do laterals etc I just can’t get my delts to ache like other body parts . I’d love to be able to actually get them sore after a workout!
Scott
@entsminger 30-10-30 dumbbell side lateral raises lights my side deltoids up real good…they make my shoulders sore…I only do them once a week which I think is plenty
Try a giant set of side laterals, front laterals and bent over rear laterals using dumbells…in 30-10-30 fashion…never tried it, but I think you will get shoulder soreness after this
I’ve been doing 30 10 30 Nautilus machine laterals or slightly leaning forward laterals or just straight sets of light weight laterals until I can’t budge them . This afternoon with literally 5 seconds rest between sets I did Nautilus laterals 30 10 30 then standing dumbbell press with elbows facing forward, then 2 sets of leaning forward side laterals until I could hardly move my arms and now I couldn’t tell I worked out , feeling wise ?
Scott
Here is what I like that might give you a burn. Lean-away dumbbell laterals for the negative reps, then stand straight and do regular standing side laterals for the positive reps. Since the leaning laterals provide more resistance than regular laterals, this makes it a type of hyper set, using the term from Darden and Jones, with a similar effect to X-force machines. I usually don’t do 30-10-30 for the leaning/side laterals since the negative is already accentuated, but combing both could further increase the burn potential. You could also superset NO leaning laterals or other shoulder movements with this for additional burn.
Lean-away dumbbell laterals:
Some kind of isometric shoulder work might also help. I remember when I was young holding buckets of water at arms length from my dads old army manual. That really burned at the time.
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