[quote]hspder wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
You must be lots of fun to work with.
Personally, I’d MUCH rather work with him than with the people I can’t seem to escape from anywhere I work – lazy, cowardly yes-men (and women) who will smile at you all day but behind your back, serve as judge, jury and executioner of anyone who doesn’t think or behave like them…
[/quote]
Just give Howard Dean your letter of resignation and get a real job. 
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I asked you this :
“What is your solution to the specific instances that we have brought up?”
and you tell me about your payment plan? I do believe I have been very clear in what I am writing here and you have tried to skip right over it. It isn’t working. Again, what should the person do who loses their job? Create a payment plan because you did it? From what? For basic info, my grandmother lost her job when this hit full progression.
There, it has been spelled out for you the situation I am discussing. Please try to run around it however you see fit…again.
Pay for it. Make a payment plan. How is that out of your grandmother’s grasp? How is she paying for food? Where is she living?
If she’s unemployed, how is she even surviving? And you think bankruptcy will put food on her table? When my granny passed away in 1988, there were over $45,000 in unpaid medical bills. The family all pitched in and paid it off. Some were able to write a check, others made a …that’s right payment plans are not an option for your ‘unique’ situation. Where’s your grandmother’s family at? In line for the bankruptcy lawyer, I suppose.
It’s just a difference in where you come from. I was taught to pay my way, and NEVER, NEVER take a handout. You don’t quit when it’s hard. But maybe I’m just a freak.
Actually, my grandmother is dead now. She died not soon after I graduated. Yes, it was that serious. She was actually bed ridden through the last of it and she still had to make house payments. I am interested in how you would have worked out this payment plan. Just to let you know, I ahve written about this several times so you should have seen it coming.
Please, enlighten me with how she should have worked while in bed.[/quote]
Why do people (like you) site exceptions to the rule, and then claim it as “the rule?”
For every sick grandmother (mother, father etc.) there are many more people who simply don’t want to make the effort, and are quite physically able to repay the loan!
Cory089 wrote:
“Keep in mind that the #1 cause of bankruptcy is healh care/hospital.”
In response:
i could not find the study to quote, but a recent study, perhaps the one you are referring to or not, said that medical based expenses were the number one reason of bankrucptcy. but from what i remember, that study had a pretty broad definition of medical reasons because they were trying to push their liberal universal health care agenda. i think they referred to gambling as a medically based expense because someone has a gambling addiction. there were some other pretty off the wall medical expenses which truely are not real health care concerns.
make people repay their debt. if they don’t, I will have to because of increased costs.
if it wasn’t for big businesses making large grants, many of the hospitals, parks, arts programs, senior citizens programs, community programs, parks, zoos, mueseums, universities, and many other nice things around my house wouldn’t be there.
[quote]pkiousis wrote:
make people repay their debt. if they don’t, I will have to because of increased costs. [/quote]
A direct and simple question:
Now that this bill is likely to become law do you honestly expect your costs, medical, credit or other, to decrease? Will the businesses that most benefit from this legislation pass their “savings” on to you, the consumer?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Why do people (like you) site exceptions to the rule, and then claim it as “the rule?”
For every sick grandmother (mother, father etc.) there are many more people who simply don’t want to make the effort, and are quite physically able to repay the loan!
[/quote]
Why do people (like you) ignore the exceptions to YOUR rules and proceed in spite of the potential damage to those people?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Why do people (like you) site exceptions to the rule, and then claim it as “the rule?”
[/quote]
This is where your weak deabating skills and lack of comprehension come into play. He is stating his “exception to the rule” and asking for your solution. You don’t like that exceptions do exist so you argue against him making points that nobody is aguing against.
You have a heated hatred of bankruptcy and thus can’t see any reason why it should be acceptable to file. Very close-minded of you.
It still blows my mind that you couldn’t see the points in my posts. But sometimes people only see(or read) what they want to. I guess I’m a coward and a quitter for filing bankruptcy. But now I’m almost a millionaire. I really pulled one over on the credit companies.
The plan is working,
Toddy
[quote]malonetd wrote:
I guess I’m a coward and a quitter for filing bankruptcy. But now I’m almost a millionaire. I really pulled one over on the credit companies.
The plan is working,
Toddy[/quote]
If you had any honor, now that you are “almost a millionaire” you’d honor your obligations. No bankruptcy court can morally absolve you of the promises you made.
[quote]doogie wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I guess I’m a coward and a quitter for filing bankruptcy. But now I’m almost a millionaire. I really pulled one over on the credit companies.
The plan is working,
Toddy
If you had any honor, now that you are “almost a millionaire” you’d honor your obligations. No bankruptcy court can morally absolve you of the promises you made.
[/quote]
How old are you?
Oh man - and doogie’s an athiest. How are you going to reconcile this, profX?
Now, if doogie answers your question with 34-35 years-old, will you change your straw-man to age instead of religion?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Oh man - and doogie’s an athiest. How are you going to reconcile this, profX?
Now, if doogie answers your question with 34-35 years-old, will you change your straw-man to age instead of religion?
[/quote]
I only asked because I thought it was common knowledge that this money would be insured. If someone, after pleading bankruptcy, years later calls whatever company they owed money to and says, “hey, I have that 50 bucks now” to the girl answering phones, I am sure he will be told that the situation has been resolved.
I understand the point he was trying to make, however. Thanks for jumping in an quarterbacking the whole situation though. I needed that.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Why do people (like you) ignore the exceptions to YOUR rules and proceed in spite of the potential damage to those people?[/quote]
Because the greater majority (not everyone as I stated) find it easier not to repay a loan through the current bankruptcy laws.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
This is where your weak deabating skills and lack of comprehension come into play. He is stating his “exception to the rule” and asking for your solution. You don’t like that exceptions do exist so you argue against him making points that nobody is aguing against.
You have a heated hatred of bankruptcy and thus can’t see any reason why it should be acceptable to file. Very close-minded of you.
It still blows my mind that you couldn’t see the points in my posts. But sometimes people only see(or read) what they want to. I guess I’m a coward and a quitter for filing bankruptcy. But now I’m almost a millionaire. I really pulled one over on the credit companies.
The plan is working,
Toddy[/quote]
Hey Toddy, I don’t know (or care) if you are “almost a millionaire.” However, as far as putting forth a coherent point and a logical series of arguments, well you fall short my friend.
Furthermore, laws should not be drafted to protect the 5% of the exceptions. Do speeding laws take into consideration the guy who is rushing his (oh why not) grandmother to the hospital? No.
The fact that you went bankrupt does not make you a coward and a quitter. You may be one of those exceptions, I don’t know the specifics of your situation, and I am in no way asking you to share them on a message board.
As I have stated before, there are reasons to file. However, I don’t think that the majority who do file actually look hard enough for an alternative plan. Perhaps you have been taking this a bit to personally. I was never talking about you.
Go train…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I only asked because I thought it was common knowledge that this money would be insured. If someone, after pleading bankruptcy, years later calls whatever company they owed money to and says, “hey, I have that 50 bucks now” to the girl answering phones, I am sure he will be told that the situation has been resolved.
I understand the point he was trying to make, however. Thanks for jumping in an quarterbacking the whole situation though. I needed that.[/quote]
Maybe the credit card companies have this magical insurance you speak of, but regular guys like me don’t. I have had several instances where I would go to the mailbox to find a letter from either the bankruptcy lawyer, or the judge, telling me that a former client has either filed for, or has been granted a discharge of debt.
Guess what. I’m S.O.L. I have no recourse other than chalking one up to experience. If one of these thieves ever had a sudden attack of moral obligation, I’d wet my pants. But I’d damn sure get my money first.
When folks file for discharge of debt - they aren’t just fucking over the credit card companies. They are fucking over EVRYONE they owe. And that includes regular guys who are just trying to pay their bills. But I thought that was common knowledge.
This thread was revolving around credit card debt. Exactly what do you do that you get so many discharge of debt notices sent directly to your house?
For the record, I am not really disagreeing with what you just wrote, it just seems odd that you find yourself in this situation often.
rainjack:
I think you just hit on the crux of the problem. Many (not all) on this thread who are arguing for more lenient bankruptcy laws have never been in a position such as you find yourself.
When it is “done to you” you have a different view of the entire situation. Basically the system has allowed these people to get out of their financial obligation for work that you performed. rainjack is not citigroup. Do you have any mercy for his situation maloneted or Professor? Is he worthy of your pity, or is it just those who escape their obligations that get your empathy?
Anyone trying to rationalize this sort of detestable behavior needs to perform a service, or sell a product to someone and then not get paid. I think that would happen about one time before they were screaming: “these bankruptcy laws are lenient.”
I’ve been an accountant in private practice for 6 years. The bulk of my business is tax work for farmers, small business owners, and individuals.
Just out of curiousity, Zeb and Rainjack, what are your positions on legalized gambling or legalized drugs?
I think gambling is a better analogy here, but if you think about it I think both of those are analogous, at least with respect to arguments about protecting consumers from themselves.
My opposition to legalized gambling has very little to do with protecting the consumer from himself. I just happen to think that it is a pretty low-class way for a government to make money.
On the whole, I think government should get out of the ‘protect the consumers from themselves’ business. Personal responsibility shouldn’t come at a premium - it should be expected.
The government wants to protect us from ourselves, and I just don’t see how that truly helps anyone out. It rewards the irresponsible for acting the way they do, and punishes those who play by the rules.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Where we disagree is that you equate practices by certain credit card companines with consumers filing bankruptcy. I think that the consumer should be disciplined enough to know where he/she is probably already in over their head.
[/quote]
There are plenty of laws in place because the general public doesn’t make the best decisions (maybe a generalization, but I feel it’s true). But even when someone realizes they are in over their head, how are they supposed to get out? My dad was out of work for three months and his credit dropped a couple hundred points. He was paying off old debts, so there wasn’t money to be put away (read: he was in over his head and was trying to fix it). Thankfully, he is very experienced in his field, so he gets high-paying jobs, because he has been getting back on track since. But we easily would have been SOL otherwise, with both myself and my sister in college, and my mom out of work. But for most families, they would have been completely screwed.
…I don’t see a single reason why they would have rejected that. Maybe there is some other form of legislation that renders that unnecessary, but other than that, it should absolutely be in there.