New Bankruptcy Law

From what I’ve seen of it so far, I don’t like it. While I generally lean libertarian in contracting, the fact that I consider credit-card offers virtually fraudulent (libertarians hate fraud)[Here’s a link to a recent report on credit-card company practices: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10361-2005Mar5.html ] leads me to take the position that credit companies should shoulder the burden of offering credit to bad credit risks, rather than making it easier for them to get at assets – especially given the very liberal rules regarding the addition of late penalties and increased interest rates.

I’m puzzled as to why the proposed bill seems to be getting support from both sides of the aisle – especially given Clinton vetoed the bill twice when it came up during his terms.

Of course, here is a link to a couple of posts by a very smart former FTC lawyer and current law prof who likes the reform:

http://volokh.com/posts/1108490249.shtml

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_02_27-2005_03_05.shtml#1109765500

I remain dubious however, and I’m dismayed to see lock-step Republican support in the Senate, and from President Bush. I don’t doubt that credit is an area ripe for reform, but I think that reform should be effected by making the credit-card companies absorb losses from bad credit, which would serve the twofold purpose of making credit tighter and reducing my junk mail.

Plus I think that allowing bankruptcy protection encourages entreprenuerial risk taking…

Here’s a WSJ article today that touches on some of the main features of the “Bankruptcy reform bill” in the Senate:

Creditor-Friendly South Offers
Preview of Bankruptcy Changes

By CONSTANCE MITCHELL FORD
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
March 10, 2005; Page A1

The Senate moved closer yesterday to passage of a bankruptcy bill that has been characterized as landmark legislation mapping out a new creditor-friendly environment, yet much of the South has long operated under a system that resembles what the bill aims to establish nationwide.

Senators completed the final hours of debate on the legislation, paving the way for its approval by the chamber today. The Republican-controlled House Judiciary Committee is tentatively scheduled to approve the Senate version of the bill next Wednesday. The full House probably will vote to approve the measure in the first week of April after a day or two of debate following the two-week spring recess. It would then be signed into law by President Bush, who has said he supports the overhaul.

A key feature of the bankruptcy law is that it aims to compel more debtors to file under Chapter 13 of the federal bankruptcy law, which requires filers to repay at least some of their unsecured debts with regular payments over five years. Currently, more than two-thirds of bankruptcy filers across the country use Chapter 7, which wipes out all unsecured debt and allows consumers to start fresh.

But in many Southern states, bankruptcy judges have long steered debtors to file under Chapter 13. “People here want to pay back their debts,” says Max C. Pope, an attorney and bankruptcy trustee in Birmingham, Ala., where Chapter 13 was first created during the Depression to help workers make ends meet. At the time, Mr. Pope says, coal and iron workers who couldn’t pay all their bills would send their paychecks to a state bankruptcy judge, who would distribute payments to the employee’s landlord, banker and other creditors each month.

That system continues to exist today and has spread from Alabama to Tennessee and other parts of the South. “People in the South essentially use the bankruptcy court as a publicly funded consumer-credit counseling service,” say Samuel Gerdano, executive director of the American Bankruptcy Institute in Washington, whose members include bankruptcy judges, as well as accountants and lawyers who represent both creditors and debtors.

Some economists and consumer advocates are concerned that Southern states have relatively higher rates of bankruptcy filings and that this could stem from the creditor-friendly system.

According to the American Bankruptcy Institute, one of every 72.8 households in the U.S. filed for bankruptcy protection during the 12-month period that ended in March 2004, but the rates varied sharply by region. Tennessee had the second-highest rate, with one household in every 38.7 filing for bankruptcy, and Georgia had one in every 42.4 households filing. Utah, with one in 36.5 households, has the highest bankruptcy rate of any state.

In contrast, filings are low in the Northeast and parts of the West and Midwest. One in 156.2 households filed for bankruptcy in Vermont, one in 144.3 in Massachusetts. Alaska had the lowest bankruptcy rate, at one filing for every 171.2 households.

There are several reasons for the large regional differences in bankruptcies. Economists say that a major reason is that incomes are generally lower and more volatile in the Southeast than in other parts of the country. Less income leaves families with smaller financial cushions to fall back on when problems arise. But income differences can’t explain all of the gap.

Some bankruptcy economists theorize that there’s an inverse relationship between strong consumer-protection laws and bankruptcy filings. In states where it’s harder for lenders to get judgments against consumers, bankruptcies might be lower because lenders are pickier about who gets credit. In states that make it easy for creditors to repossess property, bankruptcies might be higher because more consumers are extended credit.

That, the economists say, might explain why many Southern states – known for the creditor-friendly laws – have higher bankruptcy rates. Alabama, Georgia and Tennessee provide a wide range of prejudgments, creditor remedies, attachments, garnishments and wage assignments with limited or no litigation, Mr. Gerdano says.

Some economists argue that because creditors in many Southern states tend to have more power to repossess goods, debtors in the region tend to file for bankruptcy quickly as an end run around the repo man. Once a debtor has filed for bankruptcy he usually is protected against repossession.

“In those states, bankruptcy filings are a way to stave off creditors,” says Mr. Gerdano. In contrast, he says, in states with strong consumer-protection laws, a company has to go to court and get a judgment before it can take property.

The bankruptcy bill is backed by a business coalition called the Coalition for Responsible Bankruptcy Laws and led by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Members include the National Retail Association and several financial-services firms including Bank of America Corp., Capital One Financial Corp., the Ford Motor Credit unit of Ford Motor Co., MasterCard InternationalInc., MBNA Corp. and Morgan Stanley. The major credit-card-issuing banks are among the biggest winners, since they represent the bulk of unsecured creditors.

When credit-card companies and banks started pushing for an overhaul to curb perceived mounting abuse of the bankruptcy system, personal bankruptcy filings had jumped more than 70% to 1.35 million in 1997 from 780,500 three years earlier. Although filings have leveled off, the creditors still complain that they are too high. The American Bankers Association estimates that personal bankruptcies totaled about $60 billion last year and they cite research that estimates between 8% and 17% of that amount could be recovered if the bankruptcy bill were passed.

Whether the bill will actually reduce the number of Americans who file for bankruptcy is the subject of debate among economists and bankruptcy lawyers. While it’s clear that the bill will impose a strict “means test” to ensure that middle-income Americans with assets pay back some of their debts, it’s less clear what happens to lower-income consumers. Currently, many low-income consumers in the South file via Chapter 13 and pay back their debts over a three-year period.

But Elizabeth Warren, a professor at Harvard University, says under the new bill, many lower-income consumers won’t pass the means test and would be eligible for Chapter 7, which is the opposite effect from what Congress and creditors intended. Moreover, she says, the bill “does not change the underlying economic realities for American families,” many of whom resort to bankruptcy due to financial emergencies, such as sudden medical expenses or unemployment. “It’s hard to say whether bankruptcies will go down,” she says.

Andre Toffel, a bankruptcy lawyer in Birmingham, says his case load has doubled in the past 10 years; he has a docket of 180 cases in a five-hour period today. Most of the credit problems he sees are related to credit-card debt, and he partly blames the credit-card issuers for rising bankruptcies. “Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, so when the credit-card solicitation comes in the mail, they think this will ease their problems, but it doesn’t,” says Mr. Toffel.

Indeed, Mark Zandi, an economist at Economy.com, looks at the experience in places like Alabama and concludes that the unintended consequence of the bankruptcy bill could be that more people – not fewer – end up in financial trouble that they can’t handle. Because creditors feel they have more protection, they will begin to lend more aggressively, which could lead to more consumer-credit problems.

“We’ll have more-aggressive small consumer companies lending to lower-middle-class householders,” Mr. Zandi says. “So in the end we will have more bankruptcies because creditors will end up extending more credit.”

Philip Corwin, an outside attorney for the American Bankers Association, says he disagrees that the bill could encourage credit-card issuers to be profligate. “Most credit-card issuers are owned by banks which are governed by strong safety and soundness standards,” Mr. Corwin says. “If a bank was found to have unsound practices, the regulators would come down hard and even prevent them from offering more credit for a period.”

–Michael Schroeder contributed to this article.

Write to Constance Mitchell Ford at constance.mitchell-ford@wsj.com

OMG!
yes! I agree with B.B.

This bill is so blatantly pro business its sickening. Disgustingly even some dems went for this. Now some like Biden I can understand as one of the biggest c.c. companies is in his state, and you can’t say anything about supporting the people in your state, but still, dems as a party blew it on this one.

I think I read that 50 percent of bankruptcies are caused by medical situations, and a majority of those people even had medical insurance! Then you have situations involving divorce, or veterans coming back, and so on…

Anyway a perfect opportunity for Dems to add something in the arsenal against conservatives for upcoming elections and a few stragglers blow it.ARGHHHH!

I agree 100%, BB. I think this is bad lawmaking, written by and for a special interest. I don’t think it will do a lot to reduce bankruptcy filings. I also agree that it’s the industry that needs reformed.

The funniest line from that article was this:

If that’s true, then why do I have to shred at least one pre-approved credit card offer every day. Most of those have anywhere from $5k to $15k limits and low or 0% introductory rate. I could rack up over $100k in unsecured credit card debt in a couple weeks if I wanted to.

First they make it too easy for people to fall into that trap, and now they want to punish them for falling for it.

[quote]tme wrote:
I agree 100%, BB. I think this is bad lawmaking, written by and for a special interest. I don’t think it will do a lot to reduce bankruptcy filings. I also agree that it’s the industry that needs reformed.

The funniest line from that article was this:
“Most credit-card issuers are owned by banks which are governed by strong safety and soundness standards,” Mr. Corwin says. “If a bank was found to have unsound practices, the regulators would come down hard and even prevent them from offering more credit for a period.”

If that’s true, then why do I have to shred at least one pre-approved credit card offer every day. Most of those have anywhere from $5k to $15k limits and low or 0% introductory rate. I could rack up over $100k in unsecured credit card debt in a couple weeks if I wanted to.

First they make it too easy for people to fall into that trap, and now they want to punish them for falling for it.

[/quote]

Trap? What trap? That they have to pay back their debts? They’re not being punished, they’re being asked to pay back SOME of what they spent.

While this new set of laws is pro-business, is that a bad thing? Its easy to think the businesses are the bad guys for “taking” the people’s money or property. However, don’t they have a right to what is rightfully owed to them?

Perhaps this will make people take a little more responsability for themselves and not go spending money they don’t have so freely.

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
While this new set of laws is pro-business, is that a bad thing? Its easy to think the businesses are the bad guys for “taking” the people’s money or property. However, don’t they have a right to what is rightfully owed to them?

Perhaps this will make people take a little more responsability for themselves and not go spending money they don’t have so freely.[/quote]

Keep in mind that the #1 cause of bankruptcy is healh care/hospital. I can’t remember #2, and #3 is loss of a job. I think there is this impression that bankruptcy only happens when people just blow all of the money. That is true, but it doesn’t represent the majority of cases.

There is also this impression that simply filing bankruptcy makes your bills go away. That’s not the case. You still may lose your house, household goods, your car, your boat (or any other recreation vehicles), and most things you put up for collateral. Basically, they can take everything that is not covered by the state or federal exemption laws. This can leave a person with little to nothing. For example, in Delaware, if you take the state exemptions, you basically can keep your family bible, a pew in a church, and some of your clothes - and that’s all. Of course in Texas and Florida, you can use the exemptions to shield millions of dollars, since there is no limit to the homestead exemption. That’s why I actually support the provision limiting a homestead exemption to $200,000. That’s hardly a reason to throw out the whole code, however.

As for your contention that people will take more responsibility for themselves, I hardly think that anybody really spends with the idea that they can simply fall back on bankruptcy. If that were the case, then the judge has the option of not granting you a discharge of your debts. If that’s your concern, then tighten the fraud analysis, don’t just throw out the whole code.

Also, it’s not consumers who are using bankruptcy as a weapon - it’s corporations. If you’ve got a bad deal as a corporation, file Chapter 13 and rework your debts. Basically, you can use it to leverage into a better deal with landlords, creditors, etc. That part of it isn’t being addressed however.

While I’m generally a pro-personal responsibility guy, I’m with BB on this one and think that the changes will do more harm than good.

I’m divided on this issue. While I despise some of the credit card companies’ practices, I have a problem with people being able to claim bankruptcy and avoid personal responsibility. Ultimately, it’s up to the individual to research things before signing up.

Cory, what you overlook in your arguement concerning what causes most cases of bankruptcy is that most debt problems are credit card related, according to the article’s experts. I would personally believe this to be likely true.

If someone has spent deep on their credit cards and then has to pay for surprise healthcare, or loses their job, does that mean they are any less responsible for poor planning then if one simply goes out and spends?

I regularly go without healthcare services because of the costs. I don’t pay for the healthcare and then say “oops, can’t pay the credit cards now”.

If a person was free of debt, or at least major debt, then issues of health, job, or other pitfalls would not cause them to lose their house or personal possessions.

Bankruptcy=stealing.

No matter what the causes of the bankruptcy are, it’s just wrong.

So says the guy with a 420 FICO score.

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
Cory, what you overlook in your arguement concerning what causes most cases of bankruptcy is that most debt problems are credit card related, according to the article’s experts. I would personally believe this to be likely true.

If someone has spent deep on their credit cards and then has to pay for surprise healthcare, or loses their job, does that mean they are any less responsible for poor planning then if one simply goes out and spends?

I regularly go without healthcare services because of the costs. I don’t pay for the healthcare and then say “oops, can’t pay the credit cards now”.

If a person was free of debt, or at least major debt, then issues of health, job, or other pitfalls would not cause them to lose their house or personal possessions.[/quote]

What planet are you living on that no health issues would ever cause a person to go deep in debt and not be able to pay the money back? What if the injury also causes them to lose their job? Your view of the world seems wildly snobbish. Everyone wasn’t born with a silver spoon in their mouths and sometimes, there are circumstances completely out of the individual’s control. I am not for anyone skipping out on debt, but I am not so naive as to think that there won’t be many people in a world of hurt because of this decision.

Take another look at your credit card fees. If you miss one payment, they tack on as much as $35, which sometimes puts people over their limit, so they get another $35 fee, and these are often due with the current payment, and the late payment. So if the person had trouble making one payment, how are they supposed to make 2 payments, plus $75?

And this does not take into account their little default interest rate, often over 25%.

There have been a lot of complaints about credit card companies receiving payments, and then holding them so they can get the late fee. There is also the fact that they have done research and found that people are more likely to miss a payment if it is during a certain part of the month, and have actually placed their payments on that day just to make it more likely they will get that late fee.

Then there are the collection companies. Most of which are run by the credit card companies. (Often just down the hall from the normal offices.)

Part of the problem is that people just don’t understand how to manage money, but that is no reason to take advantage of people. Everyone should graduate from high school knowing how to manage their money, and the fact that the schools don’t really teach people about money is not just a failing of the school system, but anther example of politics invading our school system.

Yes I am serious about this. The idea of people graduating and actually understanding money will make it harder to fool people into believing the crap so many politicians spew.

Now if everyone here really wants to give the credit card companies a swift kick, quit using your credit cards. Can you really explain why you need to spend the next 7 years paying off a tank of gas that lasted you 2 weeks at most? How many of you are still paying off that computer you threw away 2 years ago?

Now to understand how banks work, (and correct me if I am wrong here,) but banks borrow money from you, at either no interest, plus fees, to those wonderful 3.5% cd’s. Then they are legally allowed to loan out $10 for every $1 they take in, and they do that with their credit cards at the wonderful rate of 13% if you are lucky, 16% if not, and 19-24% if your credit sucks.

So this means they are borrowing say $100, paying out as much as $4, and turning around and loaning out $1,000 and getting back as much as $240. I don’t know about you but I want to be a bank. I don’t feel sorry for them myself.

My main issue is with credit-card company practices. People noted above how the fees and extra interest can attach and greatly increase debt burdens for consumers – the potential is always hidden in the fine print of the offer, of course – that stuff is so small I can barely read it even with my glasses on…

Then you look at the offers. I received a “special offer” in the mail yesterday from MBNA. They offered to “make my debt disappear!” How? By lending me money! In the form of a “Disappearing Debt” loan from MBNA. Ending debt by borrowing money: the P.T. Barnum credit rehabilitation plan. They were even thoughtful enough to personally highlight some parts of the letter to be sure I wouldn’t miss out on them – in case you were wondering, these were not sections on interest payments, late payments, or any other increase in payments.

One of those non-highlighted sections states MBNA can raise my interest rate pretty much whenever it wants, but my monthly payment will (for my convenience) stay the same. The amount going to principal will just be reduced – lucky me. So it’ll just take longer to pay it off, given the higher interest rate. What a great way to make my debt disappear!

Mere puffery, or fraud? I’d say the fact that the “Sales side” claims clearly contradict the facts of what would happen if the details in the fine print were applied makes it much closer to the latter.

Nobody is forced to accept a credit card offer. If the offer sucks, don’t get the card. There is no justification for running up debt and then not paying because you decide it isn’t fair.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Nobody is forced to accept a credit card offer. If the offer sucks, don’t get the card. There is no justification for running up debt and then not paying because you decide it isn’t fair.[/quote]

This is entirely true. However, the details of the offer should be plain, and claims should not directly contradict reality – that’s fraud. THe only reason my example isn’t explicit fraud is because the fees and interest are contingencies and not guaranteed to occur. However, would you like to place any bets concerning probability?

The responsibility of repaying a debt, any debt belongs in the hands of the borrower! This is a good law, which actually may not go far enough. There needs to be a reclaiming of personal responsibility in this country. This is only one small step in the right direction.

All who are ringing their hands over “big comapnies” and “special interests” need to remember that in a free society no one is making anyone borrow beyond their means to pay it back. If you want to worry about “people” then worry about all of the good, honest hard working people at every level who work for credit card companies and other lending institutions who have been legally cheated out of their due because of unfair bankruptcy laws!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
The responsibility of repaying a debt, any debt belongs in the hands of the borrower! This is a good law, which actually may not go far enough. There needs to be a reclaiming of personal responsibility in this country. This is only one small step in the right direction.

All who are ringing their hands over “big comapnies” and “special interests” need to remember that in a free society no one is making anyone borrow beyond their means to pay it back. If you want to worry about “people” then worry about all of the good, honest hard working people at every level who work for credit card companies and other lending institutions who have been legally cheated out of their due because of unfair bankruptcy laws!

[/quote]

Let me ask, how many people do you actually know who have filed for bankruptcy? I don’t know of any personally, even though I am sure there many. The point is, I seriously doubt filing for bankruptcy is the new trendy thing to do. Most know it screws up your credit for nearly a decade so it isn’t like a free ride for all debt. I would like to know exactly how many “poor people who work at Credit Card agencies” have actually been put in the red by this. You make it seem as if they are all falling down the drain because every other person is filing. I seriously doubt that to be anywhere near true.

haha BB, MBNA has to be one of the worst. I get at least one or two of those a week. Wipe out all my debts for a “mere $137.99 per month”. Read the ultra fine print to discover that they’ll raise my interest rate when and if they feel like it, and that if I’m late even once I’ll be paying off the interest on this loan for the rest of my life.

Yeah, if I accept their terms then it is my responsibility to repay the loan in full, and bankruptcy should not be a readily available option simply because I overextended myself. But thay in no way excuses the predatory practices of the credit card companies and banks.

They send out millions of those offers every day. Probably the vast majority of people who get them can and do manage their credit and aren’t stupid enough to fall for the marketing bullshit. But junk mail and spam operate on the same principle - maybe only 1% of the people you contact will jump on your offer, and maybe only 1% of that 1% don’t fully understand the implications. You are still going to make a boatload of money on penalties and interest.

It just doesn’t make any sense to pass a law that places the borrowers recourse without also imposing limitation on the marketing practices of the lenders. Yeah, caveat emptor and all that, but fraud is fraud whether you are selling snake oil or lending money.

Bankruptcies are way up from even five years ago. The more we, as a people, lose site of personal responsibility the more they will continue to rise. Knowing that you have an easy (easy in the sense that it is not difficult to do) escape hatch makes borrowing money that much more attractive. Tighten the bankruptcy laws and at the same time you will help those who feelt they can bail when things get difficult.

When you think of credit card companines for some reason you have an image of wealthy executives, twirling their mustaches and lauging maniacally at the plight of the poor. That is not the case. It is nothing more than a stereotype!

Think for a moment of the people making collection calls; people working in the mail room; clerks and secretaries. Are these people “evil”? Do you think their job is more or less at jeopardy when customers don’t pay their bills? Don’t you think that these employees also have bills of their own to pay? Where is your great liberal empathy for these people? Does it only extend to those who try to get out from under a deby by using every legal means possible?

I simply want all of us to take personal responsibility for our actions. Hiding behind an easy bankruptcy law helps no one! Least of all the people who are in debt.

Bankruptcy sucks , trust me it’s no free ride. I filed in 2000, not because I’m some lowlife looking to get out of the responsibility of repaying my debts. I had an excellent credit rating and paid all my bills on time. It only took a brief unexpected job loss and getting behind in a couple of payments to start the snowball rolling.
It’ll likely be a few more years before I can start to enjoy the benefits of credit. Imagine not being able to rely on a line of credit to pay your rent if one has unexpected expenses. Try renting a car. I have to budget tighter than ever and while not impossible, it’s no fun. Other than a secured credit card which I have to come up the cash to cover, I have to pay cash for everything.
So I find it rather annoying when I see some one here running their mouths about how we are responsible for our own debts. We all are but shit happens, Bankruptcy = stealing, my ass. Just hope you never have to go through what I have. Bad things can happen to good people. I know that when I do come out the other side I’ll be a better person for it and learned some hard lessons. This won’t happen to me again.

I wouldn’t quite use the word ‘fraud’ but, the practices mentioned above are fairly unethical. I would support a law stipulating standards, much like how cigarette manufacturers must display the surgeon general’s warning, and the pharmaceutical companies must mention the side effects in their ads.

Professor X, assuming one has not indebted themselves extensively before the healthcare problem, it would seem to me, with the exception of HUGE bills(ie repeated surgeries or extended hospital stays) that one would not be bankrupted by these things, though one would, yes, be indebted due to them. The point I was trying to make was that if one’s only, or primary, debt was to medical care, then one wouldn’t be so likely to fall into bankruptcy.

I’m sure this is going to bring up questions of healthcare costs and what not. I think that is something that needs to be dealt with so that people who can’t afford it, won’t be indebted because of some injury or sudden illness. However, this should be done by dealing with healthcare reform, not by making bankruptcy easier for those in debt for all reasons across the board.

[quote]Zeb wrote:
I simply want all of us to take personal responsibility for our actions. Hiding behind an easy bankruptcy law helps no one! Least of all the people who are in debt.[/quote]

Zeb,

I agree, but I think it’s an incomplete and even counter-productive “reform” if it doesn’t address the practices of credit-card companies as well.