Yes, I will do that. I will sit here and dwell on the fact that my grandmother got cancer and that it was her fault and that many bills were racked up due to this. I will dwell on the fact that there are medical injuries that could send someone under in terms of finances and that this must also be the patient’s fault. If they file for bankruptcy because of this, they should be penalized for getting hurt or sick.
[/quote]
Why is it alright for these people who fall on hard times to steal from credit card companies, but not other companies? Would these same people who declare banruptcy walk into the Best Buy where they bought their big screen TV on credit (during the good times) and try to wheel one out the front door? Would they go down to Wal-Mart and steal random things, just because they’ve now hit a bump in the road? Using a credit card to steal things doesn’t make it any less dispicable.
Yes, I will do that. I will sit here and dwell on the fact that my grandmother got cancer and that it was her fault and that many bills were racked up due to this. I will dwell on the fact that there are medical injuries that could send someone under in terms of finances and that this must also be the patient’s fault. If they file for bankruptcy because of this, they should be penalized for getting hurt or sick.
Why is it alright for these people who fall on hard times to steal from credit card companies, but not other companies? Would these same people who declare banruptcy walk into the Best Buy where they bought their big screen TV on credit (during the good times) and try to wheel one out the front door? Would they go down to Wal-Mart and steal random things, just because they’ve now hit a bump in the road? Using a credit card to steal things doesn’t make it any less dispicable.[/quote]
You equate paying for emergency medical treatment that you would die without to buying a big screen tv? Yes, that was a clueless statement.
You equate paying for emergency medical treatment that you would die without to buying a big screen tv? Yes, that was a clueless statement.[/quote]
I was talking about credit card debt, but now that I think about it I do equate the two. Declaring bankruptcy so you don’t have to pay your medical bills is just like buying a big screen TV on credit and declaring bankruptcy.
You can live for the 7 years that the medical bills are on your credit report, trying to pay as much as you possibly can. Or, you can say “Screw them. I’m going to steal the medical services they provided me while saving my life” and declare bankruptcy.
Wow. I’m done down here. It’s obvious most people have no idea how bankruptcy works. Nor do they have any idea of what it can be like to fall on hard times. Yet, when you question them, of course they know. They have walked in those shoes before. It’s like the guy that says, “Yeah, I have a lot of gay friends.” Or “…black friends.” Or whatever other minority group he has only seen on TV.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Wow. I’m done down here. It’s obvious most people have no idea how bankruptcy works. Nor do they have any idea of what it can be like to fall on hard times.[/quote]
It is either that or they feel so superior to everyone else that they feel their experience is the blue print for how everyone else in the world should behave. It really makes me wonder just how “poor” some of you grew up and why all of a sudden you are so against the people in the same environments and situations now.
For the record, relating medical assistance that saved your life to buying a television is just stupid. That is why I didn’t bother to respond directly to that post. If that is how this person’s logic center works, it is pointless.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
It is either that or they feel so superior to everyone else that they feel their experience is the blue print for how everyone else in the world should behave. It really makes me wonder just how “poor” some of you grew up and why all of a sudden you are so against the people in the same environments and situations now. [/quote]
That’s bullshit, profX. I’m not against anyone being in tough financial scrapes. It’s part of life. To throw in the towel and hide behind the skirts of the bankruptcy lawyers should not be. You can frame it in any sob-story scenario you want to, but bankruptcy is a quitter’s way out.
I’m kin to way more of these folks than I want to be, and there is not a single one of them that have filed bankruptcy because of medical problems. They use it as a way to clear their credit card balances without having to pay for what they’ve chargedup. What they do is a crime. Getting out of debt is a very hard undertaking - no question about it. Maybe it’s not for folks who would rather keep up with the Jones’. That’s what credit cards are for.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
They use it as a way to clear their credit card balances without having to pay for what they’ve chargedup. What they do is a crime. Getting out of debt is a very hard undertaking - no question about it. Maybe it’s not for folks who would rather keep up with the Jones’. That’s what credit cards are for.[/quote]
Filing for bankruptcy is a crime? By whose standard? That is what you typed, right? I am not for anyone buying thing they can’t afford. I ahve a debit card and that IS my credit card. That means if it isn’t in the bank, I don’t get it. Other than that, any cards I have had in the past were quickly paid off to estabolish credit. I think you, like several others, are acting as if anyone here is promoting for people to buy shit and then use this as a way to steal money. It is being presented to you that there are circustances that could lead someone to that. Someone who has cancer, needs radiation therapy who can’t work is going to have some problems. You are saying they should…what? What is your solution to the specific instances that we have brought up?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Filing for bankruptcy is a crime? By whose standard? That is what you typed, right? I am not for anyone buying thing they can’t afford. I ahve a debit card and that IS my credit card. That means if it isn’t in the bank, I don’t get it. Other than that, any cards I have had in the past were quickly paid off to estabolish credit. I think you, like several others, are acting as if anyone here is promoting for people to buy shit and then use this as a way to steal money. It is being presented to you that there are circustances that could lead someone to that. Someone who has cancer, needs radiation therapy who can’t work is going to have some problems. You are saying they should…what? What is your solution to the specific instances that we have brought up?[/quote]
By whose standard? Maybe it’s not a statutory crime, but those that have filed bankruptcy under the conditions I explained are thieves in my book. You are defending these types as if they all have a sick grandmother. That’s where I throw the bullshit flag.
I know for a fact that well 90% of the bankruptcies I see are discharge of debts, not debt restructures - in fact, I’ve only seen one restructure. And of those discharges, there are none - NONE that are medically related. They just have their credit cards erased. That is theft. Oh, no one will go to jail, but they have in fact stolen.
When my daughter had some health problems, and had to go to the emergency room, we told them up front we had no insurance, and we set up a payment plan. No bankruptcies, no theft. We made a deal to pay for the services that were rendered. I know of several others that have done the same thing, including one medical bill that was over six figures.
When my daughter had some health problems, and had to go to the emergency room, we told them up front we had no insurance, and we set up a payment plan. No bankruptcies, no theft. We made a deal to pay for the services that were rendered. I know of several others that have done the same thing, including one medical bill that was over six figures.
[/quote]
I asked you this :
“What is your solution to the specific instances that we have brought up?”
and you tell me about your payment plan? I do believe I have been very clear in what I am writing here and you have tried to skip right over it. It isn’t working. Again, what should the person do who loses their job? Create a payment plan because you did it? From what? For basic info, my grandmother lost her job when this hit full progression.
There, it has been spelled out for you the situation I am discussing. Please try to run around it however you see fit…again.
“What is your solution to the specific instances that we have brought up?”
and you tell me about your payment plan? I do believe I have been very clear in what I am writing here and you have tried to skip right over it. It isn’t working. Again, what should the person do who loses their job? Create a payment plan because you did it? From what? For basic info, my grandmother lost her job when this hit full progression.
There, it has been spelled out for you the situation I am discussing. Please try to run around it however you see fit…again.[/quote]
Pay for it. Make a payment plan. How is that out of your grandmother’s grasp? How is she paying for food? Where is she living?
If she’s unemployed, how is she even surviving? And you think bankruptcy will put food on her table? When my granny passed away in 1988, there were over $45,000 in unpaid medical bills. The family all pitched in and paid it off. Some were able to write a check, others made a …that’s right payment plans are not an option for your ‘unique’ situation. Where’s your grandmother’s family at? In line for the bankruptcy lawyer, I suppose.
It’s just a difference in where you come from. I was taught to pay my way, and NEVER, NEVER take a handout. You don’t quit when it’s hard. But maybe I’m just a freak.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
malonetd wrote:
Wow. I’m done down here. It’s obvious most people have no idea how bankruptcy works. Nor do they have any idea of what it can be like to fall on hard times.
It is either that or they feel so superior to everyone else that they feel their experience is the blue print for how everyone else in the world should behave. It really makes me wonder just how “poor” some of you grew up and why all of a sudden you are so against the people in the same environments and situations now.
For the record, relating medical assistance that saved your life to buying a television is just stupid. That is why I didn’t bother to respond directly to that post. If that is how this person’s logic center works, it is pointless.[/quote]
Thinking that debts, for whatever reason do not have to be repaid is stupid. It’s also pretty stupid to stereotype those who loan money as not being worthy of repayment.
If you loaned someone a significant amount of money (that they just had to have for whatever reason) and they stiffed you, you might feel a bit differently.
You have an “us against them” mentality that is sort of …hmm I’ll call it ridiculous.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I asked you this :
“What is your solution to the specific instances that we have brought up?”
and you tell me about your payment plan? I do believe I have been very clear in what I am writing here and you have tried to skip right over it. It isn’t working. Again, what should the person do who loses their job? Create a payment plan because you did it? From what? For basic info, my grandmother lost her job when this hit full progression.
There, it has been spelled out for you the situation I am discussing. Please try to run around it however you see fit…again.
Pay for it. Make a payment plan. How is that out of your grandmother’s grasp? How is she paying for food? Where is she living?
If she’s unemployed, how is she even surviving? And you think bankruptcy will put food on her table? When my granny passed away in 1988, there were over $45,000 in unpaid medical bills. The family all pitched in and paid it off. Some were able to write a check, others made a …that’s right payment plans are not an option for your ‘unique’ situation. Where’s your grandmother’s family at? In line for the bankruptcy lawyer, I suppose.
It’s just a difference in where you come from. I was taught to pay my way, and NEVER, NEVER take a handout. You don’t quit when it’s hard. But maybe I’m just a freak.[/quote]
Actually, my grandmother is dead now. She died not soon after I graduated. Yes, it was that serious. She was actually bed ridden through the last of it and she still had to make house payments. I am interested in how you would have worked out this payment plan. Just to let you know, I ahve written about this several times so you should have seen it coming.
Please, enlighten me with how she should have worked while in bed.
My God, you act as if you were the only person to lose a loved one. And you want me to tell you what to do about it? Hindsight is 20/20.
I’m assuming no health insurance and no life insurance, or you wouldn’t be championing bankruptcy for everyone who has a run of bad luck.
I’ll ask for the second time, where was the family through all of this? Are you saying, that among all the children, there was not one person, or group of people willing to step up and help out?
You’re not asking for advice, you’re trying to make some sort of point. But I’m not buying your premise. I don’t need to provide you with alternatives - I figured them out for myself, as I am sure you will too, in time.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
My God, you act as if you were the only person to lose a loved one. And you want me to tell you what to do about it? Hindsight is 20/20.
I’m assuming no health insurance and no life insurance, or you wouldn’t be championing bankruptcy for everyone who has a run of bad luck.
I’ll ask for the second time, where was the family through all of this? Are you saying, that among all the children, there was not one person, or group of people willing to step up and help out?
You’re not asking for advice, you’re trying to make some sort of point. But I’m not buying your premise. I don’t need to provide you with alternatives - I figured them out for myself, as I am sure you will too, in time. [/quote]
My grandmother had two children. My mother was one and she took care of most of the bills (the other was unable to help). She couldn’t take care of all considering my sister was in college at the time as well. I even considered dropping out to help but this was responded to with a collective “no way in hell”. Face it, there are circumstances where a bankruptcy is not some easy way out or a person’s way to get over on the system. You simply don’t want to admit it.
No one here is backing anyone getting over just so they don’t have to pay. Yet, for some strange reason, this is all “you” see. Your inability to easily provide me with an option in this situation that wouldn’t have caused the destruction of several lives and goals also shows me that I think I made that point. You may never admit it though.
Bankruptcy is not a “crime” like you called it. I also doubt anyone is recommending this as a way to avoid debt. You simply don’t want to see any other point of view. That seems to be a disease in the conservative community. You are all better than everyone else and your way is the only way. I am surprised you didn’t use religion as a reason to avoid bankruptcy.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
My God, you act as if you were the only person to lose a loved one. And you want me to tell you what to do about it? Hindsight is 20/20.
I’m assuming no health insurance and no life insurance, or you wouldn’t be championing bankruptcy for everyone who has a run of bad luck.
I’ll ask for the second time, where was the family through all of this? Are you saying, that among all the children, there was not one person, or group of people willing to step up and help out?
You’re not asking for advice, you’re trying to make some sort of point. But I’m not buying your premise. I don’t need to provide you with alternatives - I figured them out for myself, as I am sure you will too, in time.
My grandmother had two children. My mother was one and she took care of most of the bills (the other was unable to help). She couldn’t take care of all considering my sister was in college at the time as well. I even considered dropping out to help but this was responded to with a collective “no way in hell”. Face it, there are circumstances where a bankruptcy is not some easy way out or a person’s way to get over on the system. You simply don’t want to admit it.
No one here is backing anyone getting over just so they don’t have to pay. Yet, for some strange reason, this is all “you” see. Your inability to easily provide me with an option in this situation that wouldn’t have caused the destruction of several lives and goals also shows me that I think I made that point. You may never admit it though.
Bankruptcy is not a “crime” like you called it. I also doubt anyone is recommending this as a way to avoid debt. You simply don’t want to see any other point of view. That seems to be a disease in the conservative community. You are all better than everyone else and your way is the only way. I am surprised you didn’t use religion as a reason to avoid bankruptcy. [/quote]
Hey now!
Seems to me that Conservatives aren’t the only people with closed minds, Prof.
And where’d the religion thing come from? I think Shugs just posted a blog about “straw-men arguments”. Go read it and then come back.
For the record, I was in almost full agreement with you until you went off the deep end. As you seem to do whenever anyone disagrees with you. You must be lots of fun to work with.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bankruptcy is not a “crime” like you called it. I also doubt anyone is recommending this as a way to avoid debt. You simply don’t want to see any other point of view. That seems to be a disease in the conservative community. You are all better than everyone else and your way is the only way. I am surprised you didn’t use religion as a reason to avoid bankruptcy. [/quote]
We have a difference of opinion. It is not my conservatism that causes my disdain for bankruptcies - it is the fact that I have been in situations where that would have been the easy way out, the ‘safest’ way out. But I chose the honest way out. And if I can dig myself and my family out of a horrible hole without running behind the skirts of a bankruptcy lawyer, then it can be done, and not just be conservatives.
As for the religion remark - you could have gone the whole thread without taking cheap shots. I know I frustrate you (which is about 99.4% of the fun), but to throw the religion card as a parting shot?
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Hey now!
Seems to me that Conservatives aren’t the only people with closed minds, Prof.
And where’d the religion thing come from? I think Shugs just posted a blog about “straw-men arguments”. Go read it and then come back.
For the record, I was in almost full agreement with you until you went off the deep end. As you seem to do whenever anyone disagrees with you. You must be lots of fun to work with.
[/quote]
I actually am lots of fun to work with. At least that is what the girls I usually end up working with say. You don’t have to agree, but it isn’t an uncommon belief that the conservative republican party seems to be using “morals and values” as well as a religious stance as their backbone when it comes to new policies. I’m a preacher’s son. However, I also understand the damage that can cause when there is an underlying perceived “religious right” to be in office. I am sure this may have just sparked a few more pages.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
You must be lots of fun to work with.
[/quote]
Personally, I’d MUCH rather work with him than with the people I can’t seem to escape from anywhere I work – lazy, cowardly yes-men (and women) who will smile at you all day but behind your back, serve as judge, jury and executioner of anyone who doesn’t think or behave like them…