New Bankruptcy Law

[mark57]

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Part of the problem is that people just don’t understand how to manage money, but that is no reason to take advantage of people. Everyone should graduate from high school knowing how to manage their money, and the fact that the schools don’t really teach people about money is not just a failing of the school system, but anther example of politics invading our school system.

Yes I am serious about this. The idea of people graduating and actually understanding money will make it harder to fool people into believing the crap so many politicians spew.[/quote]

That’s far more than just “part” of the problem, I think it’s the main problem. No one should be able to graduate high school without an understanding of personal finance, I think it’s much more important than calculus or other advanced math classes. As much as I hate listening to Suze Orman, she should be required reading in high school.

Any bets that if legislation were introduced in congress requiring a basic understanding of personal finance for high school graduates, it would be very, very strongly opposed by the credit industry?

[Professor_X]

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I don’t know that facts on this, but I believe that most credit card companies have already made their monies worth well before the individual files bankruptcy. The interest and fees after only a few short months probably more than covers the amount borrowed.

The bottom line is that finance and credit companies prey on the ignorant and uninformed. Sure, no one is making these people accept credit offers, but they sure look attractive. There’s very little out there in terms of educating people in financial responsibilty. Some don’t learn until it is too late and bankruptcy is the only option.[/quote]

What I don’t understand is why you have to explain this to anyone. How is someone raised if they believe that the credit card companies are the ones who are being taken advantage of by the practices of credit card companies? Interest rates alone have most people paying much more than the original item was ever worth over years of payments. How could anyone see that as detrimental to people who work at credit card companies? I would like at least one person to show me the statistics as far as the thousands of bankruptcies that have credit card companies heading for the red line. I want to know about the many people losing their jobs at credit card companies because someone screws up their credit for 7 years.

[barbos01]

To concur with Professor X, the credit card companies have adapted themselves to the flexible bankruptcy laws this bill is supposed to correct. By the time a debtor is at the point of bankruptcy the company has already turned a profit through late fees and high default APRs(as high as 30%, usury used to be illegal). The companies themselves have admitted they have largely isolated themselves from the problems this bill aims to correct. This business strategy of charging higher interest rates to higher risk debtors and the above mentioned default rates and late fees have been enormously profitable for the companies. This can be verified by simply walking to your mail box. I literally get four to five solicitations a week from credit card companies, three of which are typically from Capitol One.(If I didn’t accept the first hundred and fifty crappy offers, why would I accept the hundred and fifty first?) That said, the motivation behind the passage of this bill needs to be examined further. If the monetary loss is not really an issue, perhaps this law is more of a ethical crusade to impose justice on “deadbeats”. This is coming from a guy who a couple of years ago could have, and perhaps “should have” declared bankruptcy. I choose not to and largely paid my debt down the hard way. Does that make me a better person? Not on your life. Those debts were mine to pay. THAT having been said, if I am ever in Delaware you can bet I’ll go to the financial district and raise up the biggest fuck you I can muster in the direction of the CEO penthouse offices.

[ZEB]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I don’t know that facts on this, but I believe that most credit card companies have already made their monies worth well before the individual files bankruptcy. The interest and fees after only a few short months probably more than covers the amount borrowed.

The bottom line is that finance and credit companies prey on the ignorant and uninformed. Sure, no one is making these people accept credit offers, but they sure look attractive. There’s very little out there in terms of educating people in financial responsibilty. Some don’t learn until it is too late and bankruptcy is the only option.

What I don’t understand is why you have to explain this to anyone. How is someone raised if they believe that the credit card companies are the ones who are being taken advantage of by the practices of credit card companies? Interest rates alone have most people paying much more than the original item was ever worth over years of payments. How could anyone see that as detrimental to people who work at credit card companies? I would like at least one person to show me the statistics as far as the thousands of bankruptcies that have credit card companies heading for the red line. I want to know about the many people losing their jobs at credit card companies because someone screws up their credit for 7 years.
[/quote]

So…you think it helps the cred card companies when someone goes belly up? Do you think it strengthens the employees postition when people don’t pay their bills?

Hello? You are not getting it my friend!

It is not the Credit Card companies responsibility. It is the debtors responsibility to pay their debts. No one else’s. If they fail to do so, then they also deserve whatever happens to them. Sound harsh? Is it? It’s about taking personal responsibility for actions taken (a number of wrong actions) through the years. Sound unfair to you?

I don’t want to hear from the bleeding hearts. I know that in some instances it is “unavoidable.” However, that is the exception. In most cases it’s about mismanagement of personal funds over a long period of time. Who should take the loss?

[Professor_X]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
So…you think it helps the cred card companies when someone goes belly up? Do you think it strengthens the employees postition when people don’t pay their bills?

Hello? You are not getting it my friend!

It is not the Credit Card companies responsibility. It is the debtors responsibility to pay their debts. No one else’s. If they fail to do so, then they also deserve whatever happens to them. Sound harsh? Is it? It’s about taking personal responsibility for actions taken (a number of wrong actions) through the years. Sound unfair to you?

I don’t want to hear from the bleeding hearts. I know that in some instances it is “unavoidable.” However, that is the exception. In most cases it’s about mismanagement of personal funds over a long period of time. Who should take the loss?
[/quote]

I think you are the one “not getting it”. The credit card companies have gotten mega-rich from charging people on interest. You buy a shirt from Old Navy for 15 bucks and can potentially pay back 30. You buy a car for $20,000 and over 6 years end up paying $26,000. That doesn’t make me feel bad for credit card companies if a MINORITY of people run into hard times and screw up their own credit for 7 years by filing for bankruptcy. This has nothing to do with “bleeding hearts” and everything to do with simple common sense.

I swear, you all are trying to make it seem as if bakruptcies are being committed left and right and peope are somehow getting rich off of this…so much so that there needs to be a new structure in place to save the poor credit card companies.

I have 3 fucking credit cards that I didn’t apply for or request sitting on my dining room table right now. I haven’t cut them up yet. Hell, why bother, they will just keep sending more. The potential for theft is ridiculous if I accidentally throw any of this info away without shredding it first. I didn’t ask for a platinum card…I damn sure didn’t ask for 3. You want to give big businesses more and more control in this society and I find that dumb as shit. Pardon the reality check, but the ones getting screwed are not the CEO’s or the women making phone calls at “MasterCard”.

[nephorm]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have 3 fucking credit cards that I didn’t apply for or request sitting on my dining room table right now.[/quote]

In college this was really bad… the CC people would call you in your dorm and tell you that you WOULD be receiving a credit card. I always asked their name, wrote down the date of the call, and replied “If you send me a credit card, I will post it outside of my dorm room so that anyone may find and use it. I will have signed nothing with your company, , and you will have no recourse or way to reclaim your funds.”

I’d always get a “nevermind, sir” back.

[Mufasa]

I’m with BB on this one:

“…But I think it’s an incomplete and even counter-productive “reform” if it doesn’t address the practices of credit-card companies as well…”

Some of these practices (like jacking up interest to levels like 30%! WITH ONE LATE PAYMENT? (This is no exaggeration!)…high fees and penalties…the list goes on and on…

Not ONE of these important issues was part of the “reform” package…

Mufasa

[malonetd]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
So…you think it helps the cred card companies when someone goes belly up? Do you think it strengthens the employees postition when people don’t pay their bills?

Hello? You are not getting it my friend!

It is not the Credit Card companies responsibility. It is the debtors responsibility to pay their debts. No one else’s. If they fail to do so, then they also deserve whatever happens to them. Sound harsh? Is it? It’s about taking personal responsibility for actions taken (a number of wrong actions) through the years. Sound unfair to you?

I don’t want to hear from the bleeding hearts. I know that in some instances it is “unavoidable.” However, that is the exception. In most cases it’s about mismanagement of personal funds over a long period of time. Who should take the loss?
[/quote]

I feel like there’s two different arguments going on here. And in a way, they’re both right. Yes, people need to claim personal responsibilty. Yes, credit companies use misleading practices and prey on the uninformed.

Zeb, I’m not arguing the idea of personal responsibilty, but I don’t believe any case of personal bankrupcty has ever hurt any credit company. When most people file bankruptcy it is a last resort after struggling with minimun payments for months, more likely over a year. There were probably even some late payments, which in turn produced late fees, overlimit fees, and higher interest rates. I believe that most people have paid well more than they borrowed before filing. According to their “contract” do they still owe more? Yeah, but the point I’m making(and Prof X, I believe) is that the credit company doesn’t lose money in most bankruptcies.

Let me use myself as an example. Like I said earlier, I financed a car in 1999 at 19%. It was about $9000 and I put $1800 down. It was a 60 month loan with $300 monthly payments. So, the finance company was repaid the entire principal in about 2 years. For the next 3 years, I’m paying $300 a month above and beyond what I borrowed.

So, say I fall on hard times and file bankruptcy between the 3rd and 4th years of the loan. I have paid over $5000 more than I borrowed and I have to give the car back. So, again, show me where this hurts the sweet, innocent finance company?

Look, I know I left out a lot of things in the above scenario, but I wanted to keep it simple to show a concept. Finance companies rarely lose money on a personal bankruptcy.

With that being said, I do agree that people need to accept and claim personal resposibility. It’s just a shame that there’s not more emphasis on financial management in our society. Kids grow up and have no idea what simple or compound interest is. Or a grace period. Or whatever. I was one of those kids. So, Zeb, who should take the loss here, when we have a generation of kids growing up with no money skills living in a consumer’s world? The few kids lucky enough to have someone, somewhere show them how to balance a checkbook get to move ahead, while the rest of these young adult get blasted with new laws that call for harsher punishments of their mistakes? What’s the answer?

I also think some of you have the misconception that people are filing bankruptcy to get over on the system and get rich. If this is possible, show me. I just don’t see how this is possible. You mean to tell me that Joe Consumer; who charges beer, pizza, and shoes, and has no idea what his interest rate is; can’t manage his own money, but has some elaborate get-rich-through-bankruptcy plan that will work?
Right.

Filed in '97, still recovering,
Toddy

[ZEB]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
So…you think it helps the cred card companies when someone goes belly up? Do you think it strengthens the employees postition when people don’t pay their bills?

Hello? You are not getting it my friend!

It is not the Credit Card companies responsibility. It is the debtors responsibility to pay their debts. No one else’s. If they fail to do so, then they also deserve whatever happens to them. Sound harsh? Is it? It’s about taking personal responsibility for actions taken (a number of wrong actions) through the years. Sound unfair to you?

I don’t want to hear from the bleeding hearts. I know that in some instances it is “unavoidable.” However, that is the exception. In most cases it’s about mismanagement of personal funds over a long period of time. Who should take the loss?

I think you are the one “not getting it”. The credit card companies have gotten mega-rich from charging people on interest. You buy a shirt from Old Navy for 15 bucks and can potentially pay back 30. You buy a car for $20,000 and over 6 years end up paying $26,000. That doesn’t make me feel bad for credit card companies if a MINORITY of people run into hard times and screw up their own credit for 7 years by filing for bankruptcy. This has nothing to do with “bleeding hearts” and everything to do with simple common sense.

I swear, you all are trying to make it seem as if bakruptcies are being committed left and right and peope are somehow getting rich off of this…so much so that there needs to be a new structure in place to save the poor credit card companies.

I have 3 fucking credit cards that I didn’t apply for or request sitting on my dining room table right now. I haven’t cut them up yet. Hell, why bother, they will just keep sending more. The potential for theft is ridiculous if I accidentally throw any of this info away without shredding it first. I didn’t ask for a platinum card…I damn sure didn’t ask for 3. You want to give big businesses more and more control in this society and I find that dumb as shit. Pardon the reality check, but the ones getting screwed are not the CEO’s or the women making phone calls at “MasterCard”.[/quote]

“The credit card companies get mega rich from charging people on interest.” Oh my…what horrible people! Trying to make a profit…dang. Hey Professor…welcome to America! Thre is value to having money “up front” that you did not earn. And because you have the use of that money you must pay a fee, that fee is called interest. Out of the percentage paid to the credit card comapanies they must pay their bills, inculding emplyee wages, social security, and all kinds of extras that a run away government has tacked on. If they take 3% to 7% to the bottom line they are doing great! You hate that? Why?

Do you realize that as we speak there are thousands of people sipping on a can of coke, or pepsi (yuck). Did you know that it costs Pepsi about 15 cents to produce that soda? They sell those cans for a buck or more! Oh my…do you hate Pepsi too? Would you like to talk about other industries? It’s called business!

Did you know that they have a legal interest rate in every state (I think many vary). Do you know why they have a legal interest rate? They have one so that no one can take adavantage of someone by charging a rate that would be considered “usureres.” Everything under that rate, my friend is legal. That means that those credit card companies are doing nothing wrong!

However, the people who sign up for the credit and don’t pay when they promised are in fact doing something wrong. They are breaking a legal obligation. Do you think they are bad people? (I don’t) You seem to have enough bad will for the credit card companies. How dare they try to make a profit…LOL

You have this image of all these poor, poor people just being taken advantage of by these evil companies. that image will not be broken by someone on a message board. (My only hope in spending any time on this thread is to at least allow the others reading it to see both sides).

Oh, by the way PM me regarding the names and addresses of all of the tough guys who went out to these peoples homes and twisted their arms to sign up for credit that they could not manage. Oh…that’s right no one made them do it…Hmm,…darn looks like we are back to something you really hate PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

What you are basically complaining about is called marketing. I’m sure you are very familiar with that word, you are a bright guy. If these people think they might get in trouble with a credit card why do they take it? If they don’t like the interest rate, why do they sign up? If they can’t pay their bills why do they blame others?

Here is a novel concept for you (and some others) when things go wrong in your life it’s your fault! Dwell on that a while.

[ZEB]

maloneted:

You stated:

“Let me use myself as an example. Like I said earlier, I financed a car in 1999 at 19%. It was about $9000 and I put $1800 down. It was a 60 month loan with $300 monthly payments. So, the finance company was repaid the entire principal in about 2 years. For the next 3 years, I’m paying $300 a month above and beyond what I borrowed.”

It’s called “the cost of using money that you did not earn.” If you thought it was to high (19%) then you should not have made the decision to go forward with the loan, or did someone make you?

I understand that things can happen in peoples lives that can set them back. I understand that people can get behind on their bills and it is not intentional. However, as soon as something goes wrong the first people they want to blame are those big bad credit card companies (who actually took a risk by issuing the card in the first place)…“They charge to much interest waa boo hoo.”

You cannot justify not paying the money back because you think the interest rate is high. The time to complain about the 19% has come and gone. Do you get into a baseball game and whine because you swung three times, missed the ball and you are out? No, of course not, you knew the rules of the game before you entered it.

It’s almost like going into a restaurant where you know the service is slow and the steak is tough. You know it, I know it, the freaking world knows it. Does that stop you? No. You go into the restaurant order steak, get lousy service…and complain about it.

Here’s an idea DON’T GO INTO THE PLACE! Don’t borrow money at 19% if you think it’s to high.

Problem solved let’s move on.

[Professor_X]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Here is a novel concept for you (and some others) when things go wrong in your life it’s your fault! Dwell on that a while.
[/quote]

Yes, I will do that. I will sit here and dwell on the fact that my grandmother got cancer and that it was her fault and that many bills were racked up due to this. I will dwell on the fact that there are medical injuries that could send someone under in terms of finances and that this must also be the patient’s fault. If they file for bankruptcy because of this, they should be penalized for getting hurt or sick.

You haven’t shown both sides. You have shown that you care nothing for others as long as you stay on top of the food chain. I would love to see how someone with your views would respond if you found yourself in the shoes of the examples I gave. It would clearly be “YOUR FAULT”. Dwell on that for a while.

[ZEB]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Here is a novel concept for you (and some others) when things go wrong in your life it’s your fault! Dwell on that a while.

Yes, I will do that. I will sit here and dwell on the fact that my grandmother got cancer and that it was her fault and that many bills were racked up due to this. I will dwell on the fact that there are medical injuries that could send someone under in terms of finances and that this must also be the patient’s fault. If they file for bankruptcy because of this, they should be penalized for getting hurt or sick.

You haven’t shown both sides. You have shown that you care nothing for others as long as you stay on top of the food chain. I would love to see how someone with your views would respond if you found yourself in the shoes of the examples I gave. It would clearly be “YOUR FAULT”. Dwell on that for a while.[/quote]

Actually, I have been in “those shoes” and it was not much fun. In fact, I am not what I (or anyone else) would call wealthy. However, I do have a habit of paying my bills on time. Now your Grandmothers situation is something that is indeed sad, and I am sorry to hear of it. This is one of those unfortunate things that can occur to anyone, of any age or financial background.

However, even though these situations are indeed sad, they are still not the credit card companies fault. That is the main point I am trying to get across. Is it the fault of a bad health care system? Could be. However, it’s certainly not the credit card companies fault. Why do you (and some others) continually paint these companies as evil? They didn’t give anyone a serious disease.

What they did do was provide money to those who did not earn it, at a time when they either needed, or wanted the use of it (the money). For that they charge a fee. How is this in any way wrong? In fact, one could make an argument that they (credit card companies) are giving people a second and somethings third chance. For that they are attacked? What a messed up world this has become!

If someone goes bankrupt, it is not the credit card companies fault. Yes, things can happen outside of the persons control. However, overall it seems that many like to use the credit card company as an excuse. Somehow blaming them for their misfortune. Indeed, that is not the case!

[rainjack]

I hate credit card companies. They have every right to engage in business, however. I also think there should be laws in place to prevent them from profiteering on a late payment.

But the bankruptcy problem is not the doing of the credit card companies.
Look around - how may folks have at least 3 or more credit cards? Why? Why do folks need so many? Is it the fault of the credit card companies that these folks are charged up to the oimit on most of their cards? Nope. The credit card company has never made a purchase on those cards. Who twisted the arms of these folks when the c.c. offers came in the mail? Just say no. How hard is that?

We have no credit cards. If we can’t afford a purchase, we save up until we can afford it. I know it’s a novel approach, but when you pay for something when you can actually afford it, it leaves a really nice feeling in your stomach.

I have no sympathy for those that file bankruptcy because they can’t afford their credit card bills. They should be put in debtors prison - or arrested for theft.

Live on what you make. Throw credit card offers in the trash. And quit blaming credit card companies for trying to make money.

[malonetd]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
maloneted:

You stated:

“Let me use myself as an example. Like I said earlier, I financed a car in 1999 at 19%. It was about $9000 and I put $1800 down. It was a 60 month loan with $300 monthly payments. So, the finance company was repaid the entire principal in about 2 years. For the next 3 years, I’m paying $300 a month above and beyond what I borrowed.”

It’s called “the cost of using money that you did not earn.” If you thought it was to high (19%) then you should not have made the decision to go forward with the loan, or did someone make you?

I understand that things can happen in peoples lives that can set them back. I understand that people can get behind on their bills and it is not intentional. However, as soon as something goes wrong the first people they want to blame are those big bad credit card companies (who actually took a risk by issuing the card in the first place)…“They charge to much interest waa boo hoo.”

You cannot justify not paying the money back because you think the interest rate is high. The time to complain about the 19% has come and gone. Do you get into a baseball game and whine because you swung three times, missed the ball and you are out? No, of course not, you knew the rules of the game before you entered it.

It’s almost like going into a restaurant where you know the service is slow and the steak is tough. You know it, I know it, the freaking world knows it. Does that stop you? No. You go into the restaurant order steak, get lousy service…and complain about it.

Here’s an idea DON’T GO INTO THE PLACE! Don’t borrow money at 19% if you think it’s to high.

Problem solved let’s move on.

[/quote]

You’re totally missing what I’m trying to say.

I am not trying to justify not paying what you borrowed. I am not complaining about my car loan at 19%. Maybe you should re-read my post.

My only point was that credit companies do not lose money from personal bankruptcies. Does that make it OK to skip out on your bills? No, I never said that. Stop trying to argue something that I’m not diasagreeing with you. I already said I agree with you about personal responsisbility.

I never complained in my post about the interest rate I paid. I felt it was necessary if I wanted to finance a car and start rebuilding my credit. You totally missed why I used that story as an example.

Sometimes I think you are too quick to argue with people, even when no one is arguing back. My only question to you was how do you help the people that grow up with no concept of financial resposibility. I don’t like that these people are targeted. And, no I don’t think that “that’s just America, people trying to make money”. America is not about taking advantage of the uninformed.

One last question for you , Zeb. A lot of credit companies specialize in consumers categorized as “credit risks”. People hovering around an average credit score. The companies charge set-up fees, monthly mainteneance fees, usage fees, etc. Sometimes the card user pays over $300 before they have even charged anything. But, again, I’m agreeing with you, no one is forcing them to accept the card.

Anyway, if you let your no-good, unemployed friend borrow $100, knowing full well he has a history of not paying people back, do you have a right to complain? Shouldn’t you have seen it coming? Isn’t this the same as the companies that lend to credit risks? Why should I feel sorry for them? Why should there be laws that provide for harsher punishment to the default card user, yet do nothing to limit the credit company’s misleading practices?

Read this twice, Zeb, before replying. Understand what I’m saying, and please don’t create an argument that isn’t there.

Going to finance a chin-up bar,
Toddy

[Soco]

Credit card companies expressly target those with little financial knowldege in the hopes that htey will get them trapped into a cycle of spiraling debt. I would find this law acceptable if they would have also put more protections in against targeting college age consumers and also limitations on excessive hidden charges.

[etaco]

These loose lending practices are great for politicians in the short and medium term but terrible for the US in the long run. Politicians like loose credit because it stimulates consumer spending whihch in turn provides a fairly immediate boost to the popular economic indicators, allowing them to claim that their policies are helping the US economy. In the longer run though THIS sort of lending-- and I mean specifically unsecured consumer credit-- fuels non-essential consumption, the trade imbalence, and obviously the overall levels of consumer debt which is the other half of the crushing debt owed by this country besides the federal debt. This credit would serve the US much better if it were invested in productive enterprises rather than consumptive ones.

Food for thought- Credit card companies spend ~ $150 on mailings, advertisements, and other acquisition related expenses for every customer who they succeed in signing up.

[randman]

I am all for personal responsibility. I have no problem with the new bankruptcy law being passed. Too many people take the easy way out by filing bankruptcy which probably makes up at least 90% of the cases as compared to those that actually are hit by unfortunate circumstances. So I can agree with most of Zeb’s points. But I also can see Malonetd’s points.

I think adressing the consumer side of the issue is only solving half the problem. Our current state and national laws do not go far enough to prevent credit card companies from usurious practices.

Credit card issuers can still put their operations in states that have no rate ceilings, such as South Dakota and Delaware. Other states have ceilings of typically 30%. So what do credit card issuers do? They’ll slap “penalty rates” just shy of 30% on customers, including some who have made a single slip or even pay their bills on time. This is usury that is responsible for pushing many people into bankruptcy court. The fees are also getting out of control. In fact they have soared to over $39 which is nearly 3 times the average rate in 1995.

Now let’s talk about the medical bills pushing people into bankruptcy. Another sore subject for me. Hospitals gouge the individual without health insurance, plain and simple. Hospitals will only get reimbursed a fraction of overly inflated room and service charges through health insurance but will charge full price to the individual who doesn’t have any becuase they know they can get away with it. Hospitals are just as guilty for usurious practices as are credit card companies.

I’m all for curbing irresponsible consumer behavior through legislation as long as we also address predatory lending and billing practices.

[ZEB]

maloneted:

I understood your first post quite well and responded appropriately.

This was from your first post:

"Let me use myself as an example. Like I said earlier, I financed a car in 1999 at 19%. It was about $9000 and I put $1800 down. It was a 60 month loan with $300 monthly payments. So, the finance company was repaid the entire principal in about 2 years. For the next 3 years, I’m paying $300 a month above and beyond what I borrowed.

So, say I fall on hard times and file bankruptcy between the 3rd and 4th years of the loan. I have paid over $5000 more than I borrowed and I have to give the car back. So, again, show me where this hurts the sweet, innocent finance company?"

In the above quote it doesn’t really look like you are all that understanding regarding that 19% interest rate. The word “bitter” comes to mind, but not the word “understaning.” You apparently don’t think the finance company is “innocent” according to your post. Tell me what are they guilty of?

Certain finance comapanies do charge higher rates because they are dealing with higher risks. It’s all about the risk reward ratio. It’s perfectly legal and appropriate that they do so.

You continue this line of thought in your most recent post. Your example of “letting your no good friend borrow $100” and if he does not pay you back it’s your fault because you should have known better, is indeed telling. You are still implying, as you did in your first post, that any fault falls on the shoulders of the lender, not the borrower. Apparently the borrower has no responsiblity in maloneteds world.

Yea, I understand exactly where you are coming from. Don’t ever expect me to to loan you money for that new Chin-up bar you just mentioned. If you don’t pay me back it would be my fault for loaning money to someone I met on a message board.

Maybe your better reread your own posts!

[ZEB]

[quote]Soco wrote:
Credit card companies expressly target those with little financial knowldege in the hopes that htey will get them trapped into a cycle of spiraling debt. I would find this law acceptable if they would have also put more protections in against targeting college age consumers and also limitations on excessive hidden charges.

[/quote]

And McDonalds spefically targets kids and obese people. So?

[ZEB]

[quote]Soco wrote:
Credit card companies expressly target those with little financial knowldege in the hopes that htey will get them trapped into a cycle of spiraling debt. I would find this law acceptable if they would have also put more protections in against targeting college age consumers and also limitations on excessive hidden charges.

[/quote]

GoodYear Tire targets middle aged men who own automobiles…