Well, I think that you should be able to be adding muscle with little corresponding fat gain at your size. How long have you been lifting? [sorry if I missed that in the thread]. But 4800 may be too much at 160. Depends on your metabolism. You could well continue to actively add muscle on less than that if you’re adding too much fat currently.
Edit. I looked through the thread. You’ve only been lifting 3 weeks. There’s no doubt in my mind that you should be able to gain muscle while putting on little to any fat for a good while yet. In my first 8 weeks of serious lifting, I put on 12 lbs of muscle and 1 lb of fat. My bodyfat % accordingly went down. And I wasn’t even eating a proper bulking diet because I didn’t know what that was. I probably could’ve put on even more muscle and really taken advantage of newbie gains if I had a better diet. 4800 calories is probably too much for you. But that does not mean you should be cutting. You should still be focusing on actively adding muscle.
[quote]onewall wrote:
You are getting a lot of advice from bodybuilders. The problem is that you are not a bodybuilder. You are just a guy who is out of shape and wanting to get in shape. If you get in shape your desire may expand to want to be a bodybuilder, but you are not there yet.
I am basically in the same situation as you. I started lifting hard 5 months ago. I did not increase my food as always recommended. The result is that I am the same weight but a lot less fat and a lot more muscle.[/quote]
By bodybuilders do you mean people who have been working out longer than 5 months? Maybe learned a few more lessons about physique transformations than you have?
The guys offering advice here have been through your 5 month newbie-gain honeymoon already, and then gone alot further. You are in no position to be telling someone who wants to bulk-up what they should be doing, especially if you won’t show us all your progress to date. Do you think he looked up the “Massive Eating” article because he wants to look like you? ← Serious question, not a dig.
There are alot of theories on exercise out there, and by the time I’d been working out for 5 months I’d probably read most/alot of them, but the longer I do this the more I can tell what is important and what is not. I’ve learned stuff that you can’t just read & I’ve no doubt that guys who have been doing this longer have learned much of the same and more.
There is a time to just STFU and listen.
To the OP, there’s no big secret about this stuff, if you’re getting fat too quickly then trim down the calories. If you’re not putting down any fat at all then up the calories until you are, then do a little cardio (LIT or HIIT both work) to keep things in line. Another idea is to include a day or two in the week where you use a calorie defecit, either to allow you to stay leaner when bulking, or just to eat more in the 24hrs after training sessions.
[quote]onewall wrote:
Ok. Your arguments have convinced me. He should immediately:
(1) Starting lifting every day for at least one hour.
(2) Starting eating 3500 to 4000 calories a day. Keep a food log to track every calorie and ensure that all food is in the exact optimal proportions.
(3) Do NO other activity as it will decrease optimal muscle growth.
(4) Whatever happens do not be “happy with your results”. Work harder, grow more.
Do anything less and you don’t belong on this site and are a lazy slob. Is that better?
[/quote]
Wow.
At no point did I recommend this level of training for a noob, or really even say any of the things you summarized. If this is how you discuss a topic then that’s pretty sad.
I actually think the level of training you recommended was appropriate, just that it would be stupid for him to just ignore his diet because [i]you[/i] think it’s easier.
Go back and re-read all of the posts. Comprehension must not be an easy thing for you so maybe read them a couple times. Try not to post with so much emotion as it appears you lose logic at that point.
Take t-ha’s advice and STFU and listen. Actually just STFU.
The difference between a noob and an experienced lifter may be apparent in the weights lifted, but it definitely should not be with regard to dedication and effort.
In other words: If the goal is clear and the way to get there as well, why half-ass training and/or nutrition as a beginner? What should he wait for? What merit would some sort of transition-phase have where he makes less gains than he actually would be capable of?
As soon as one decides to adopt a lifestyle like this, there is a certain “cost” and it isn’t greatly diminished by simply going through the motions as opposed to giving one’s best. To me, the difference is that this “cost” doesn’t even become apparent when it is followed by the full benefits which spill over into all other aspects of life.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
No, that simply confirmed that you are on the wrong site. I enjoy working out. I also enjoy making progress. This site isn’t for people who just casually train with little regard for actually making significant progress. I am sure there are other sites out there just for that.
[/quote]
At first glance, I thought to myself, gee (I didn’t really say gee), Prof X is really being a hard ass, but this statement is hard to argue with.
This site is dedicated to bodybuilding, strength sports, testosterone, etc. If you are looking for a powder puff workout, look elsewhere. If you don’t want advice from bodybuilders, don’t post here. It’s pretty simple. Most of us are here because we are trying to live this lifestyle, and the advice given here reflects that. If you want to know how to be an underwear model, do a google search, and I’m sure you’ll find the right forum for it.
[quote]Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No, that simply confirmed that you are on the wrong site. I enjoy working out. I also enjoy making progress. This site isn’t for people who just casually train with little regard for actually making significant progress. I am sure there are other sites out there just for that.
At first glance, I thought to myself, gee (I didn’t really say gee), Prof X is really being a hard ass, but this statement is hard to argue with.
This site is dedicated to bodybuilding, strength sports, testosterone, etc. If you are looking for a powder puff workout, look elsewhere. If you don’t want advice from bodybuilders, don’t post here. It’s pretty simple. Most of us are here because we are trying to live this lifestyle, and the advice given here reflects that. If you want to know how to be an underwear model, do a google search, and I’m sure you’ll find the right forum for it.[/quote]
Well said Modi.
Let’s all remember that it’s not the OP that wants to be lazy. This line of discussion started with another poster giving the OP a suggestion.
OP- have you gotten what you needed from this thread or do you still have questions?
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Let’s all remember that it’s not the OP that wants to be lazy. This line of discussion started with another poster giving the OP a suggestion.
OP- have you gotten what you needed from this thread or do you still have questions?[/quote]
Thanks for bringing this back on topic, especially since we have a guy who is genuinely looking to do the right thing (despite the misguided intentions of others).
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No, that simply confirmed that you are on the wrong site. I enjoy working out. I also enjoy making progress. This site isn’t for people who just casually train with little regard for actually making significant progress. I am sure there are other sites out there just for that.
At first glance, I thought to myself, gee (I didn’t really say gee), Prof X is really being a hard ass, but this statement is hard to argue with.
This site is dedicated to bodybuilding, strength sports, testosterone, etc. If you are looking for a powder puff workout, look elsewhere. If you don’t want advice from bodybuilders, don’t post here. It’s pretty simple. Most of us are here because we are trying to live this lifestyle, and the advice given here reflects that. If you want to know how to be an underwear model, do a google search, and I’m sure you’ll find the right forum for it.
Well said Modi.
Let’s all remember that it’s not the OP that wants to be lazy. This line of discussion started with another poster giving the OP a suggestion.
OP- have you gotten what you needed from this thread or do you still have questions?[/quote]
I’m good to go, for the moment.
I like to learn everything I can about a subject when I undertake a new goal or hobby. It’s part of the fun for me to sort through all the conflicting advice and find the best methodology and approach that will get me to my goals most successfully. I’ve followed that approach here. I’ll be back with some more questions, or a progress update though.
Thanks.
good luck. if you lift hard and make good progress, I’d probably take that info back to that other site you were at.
[quote]t-ha wrote:
onewall wrote:
You are getting a lot of advice from bodybuilders. The problem is that you are not a bodybuilder. You are just a guy who is out of shape and wanting to get in shape. If you get in shape your desire may expand to want to be a bodybuilder, but you are not there yet.
I am basically in the same situation as you. I started lifting hard 5 months ago. I did not increase my food as always recommended. The result is that I am the same weight but a lot less fat and a lot more muscle.
By bodybuilders do you mean people who have been working out longer than 5 months? Maybe learned a few more lessons about physique transformations than you have?
The guys offering advice here have been through your 5 month newbie-gain honeymoon already, and then gone alot further. You are in no position to be telling someone who wants to bulk-up what they should be doing, especially if you won’t show us all your progress to date. Do you think he looked up the “Massive Eating” article because he wants to look like you? ← Serious question, not a dig.
There are alot of theories on exercise out there, and by the time I’d been working out for 5 months I’d probably read most/alot of them, but the longer I do this the more I can tell what is important and what is not. I’ve learned stuff that you can’t just read & I’ve no doubt that guys who have been doing this longer have learned much of the same and more.
There is a time to just STFU and listen.
To the OP, there’s no big secret about this stuff, if you’re getting fat too quickly then trim down the calories. If you’re not putting down any fat at all then up the calories until you are, then do a little cardio (LIT or HIIT both work) to keep things in line. Another idea is to include a day or two in the week where you use a calorie defecit, either to allow you to stay leaner when bulking, or just to eat more in the 24hrs after training sessions.[/quote]
Somestimes us begginers dont want to just STFU and listen because, we aren’t sure who to listen to. I know now that I can trust the people at T-Nation but before the only people I could get information from were the personal trainers at the Y. Um no thanks I’d rather listen to nails scaping a chalkboard.
You don’t have enough muscle yet.
On the side: You should learn to pose better, specially when you want to show your back. Good Poses help see muscle and progress better. Some people here have given you good advice.
I was fat, got skinny, gained weight, then cut and got a six pack, got fat ( I got a girlfriend and got out of focus…so I gained what I call “Unnecessary Fat”) and now I’m gaining weight and I didn’t cut before gaining weight. Don’t worry about putting on more fat. I didn’t cut before I started gaining weight again. You don’t have much fat to begin with. Bulk, eat clean, lift heavy.
Get a good routine. Make sure your lifting with volume.Don’t worry if you gain fat while bulking. You lost weight, and when you lose weight there is something called “Fat Loss Memory” and thats good, because when you gain your weight, it will actually be easy to cut. Cutting is easy, it’s gaining weight thats hard. Keep those pics and post again later.
[quote]blindetheft wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No, that simply confirmed that you are on the wrong site. I enjoy working out. I also enjoy making progress. This site isn’t for people who just casually train with little regard for actually making significant progress. I am sure there are other sites out there just for that.
At first glance, I thought to myself, gee (I didn’t really say gee), Prof X is really being a hard ass, but this statement is hard to argue with.
This site is dedicated to bodybuilding, strength sports, testosterone, etc. If you are looking for a powder puff workout, look elsewhere. If you don’t want advice from bodybuilders, don’t post here. It’s pretty simple. Most of us are here because we are trying to live this lifestyle, and the advice given here reflects that. If you want to know how to be an underwear model, do a google search, and I’m sure you’ll find the right forum for it.
Well said Modi.
Let’s all remember that it’s not the OP that wants to be lazy. This line of discussion started with another poster giving the OP a suggestion.
OP- have you gotten what you needed from this thread or do you still have questions?
I’m good to go, for the moment.
I like to learn everything I can about a subject when I undertake a new goal or hobby. It’s part of the fun for me to sort through all the conflicting advice and find the best methodology and approach that will get me to my goals most successfully. I’ve followed that approach here. I’ll be back with some more questions, or a progress update though.
Thanks.[/quote]
Hey Bro, I’ve been following the thread and I don’t think the advice contradicts itself. The real question is what do you want to do? I think where you are going wrong is asking T-Nation what you should do. Only you know what that is, even if you’re unsure of how to get there.
Ask yourself, “what do I want more, more mass or to be leaner?” Once you figure that out, there’s plenty of info and knowledgeable individuals on this site who can help. Just don’t listen to anyone who tells a “a T-man looks this.” It’s just their agenda talking and not necessarily what’s in your best interest.
[quote]Marlonrobo wrote:
Hey Bro, I’ve been following the thread and I don’t think the advice contradicts itself. The real question is what do you want to do? I think where you are going wrong is asking T-Nation what you should do. Only you know what that is, even if you’re unsure of how to get there.
Ask yourself, “what do I want more, more mass or to be leaner?” Once you figure that out, there’s plenty of info and knowledgeable individuals on this site who can help. Just don’t listen to anyone who tells a “a T-man looks this.” It’s just their agenda talking and not necessarily what’s in your best interest.[/quote]
RE Contradictory Advice: Yeah, I was speaking in a more general manner, not just this thread. I kind of get off on what leads others to “analysis paralysis.” I like to be pressed to assimilate as much info as possible.
Also, I’m not asking T-Nation what my goals are. My goals are clear, even if I failed to state them so in my OP. I want to bulk up, get stronger, and not resemble JJ from Good Times quite so much. Balancing this, I don’t want to turn into a fat ass. Sure, there are lots of ways to go about that. And sure, I’ve got to sort through all those.
I’m just looking for input on the most “successful” ways of accomplishing my goals. As you alluded, there are differences in what people perceive as a good physique and as a result, we see different approaches. Even when people agree on the subjective definition of a good physique, there is a lot of divergence about how to best achieve it. The more people throw out their opinions and knowledge on the subject though, the more I soak up and better informed my choices are. I’m not looking for a prophet to follow, just information and discussion. Both of which I’ve found here in abundance. (Even if the discussion is typically somewhat internet acidic.)
Thanks for your response.
[quote]Robert Monti wrote:
blindetheft wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Modi wrote:
Professor X wrote:
No, that simply confirmed that you are on the wrong site. I enjoy working out. I also enjoy making progress. This site isn’t for people who just casually train with little regard for actually making significant progress. I am sure there are other sites out there just for that.
At first glance, I thought to myself, gee (I didn’t really say gee), Prof X is really being a hard ass, but this statement is hard to argue with.
This site is dedicated to bodybuilding, strength sports, testosterone, etc. If you are looking for a powder puff workout, look elsewhere. If you don’t want advice from bodybuilders, don’t post here. It’s pretty simple. Most of us are here because we are trying to live this lifestyle, and the advice given here reflects that. If you want to know how to be an underwear model, do a google search, and I’m sure you’ll find the right forum for it.
Well said Modi.
Let’s all remember that it’s not the OP that wants to be lazy. This line of discussion started with another poster giving the OP a suggestion.
OP- have you gotten what you needed from this thread or do you still have questions?
I’m good to go, for the moment.
I like to learn everything I can about a subject when I undertake a new goal or hobby. It’s part of the fun for me to sort through all the conflicting advice and find the best methodology and approach that will get me to my goals most successfully. I’ve followed that approach here. I’ll be back with some more questions, or a progress update though.
Thanks.
Hey Bro, I’ve been following the thread and I don’t think the advice contradicts itself. The real question is what do you want to do? I think where you are going wrong is asking T-Nation what you should do. Only you know what that is, even if you’re unsure of how to get there.
Ask yourself, “what do I want more, more mass or to be leaner?” Once you figure that out, there’s plenty of info and knowledgeable individuals on this site who can help. Just don’t listen to anyone who tells you a “a T-man looks like this.” It’s just their agenda talking and not necessarily what’s in your best interest. [/quote]