I agree you should be bulking
However I’m not sure how you did your calculations for Massive Eating, 4800cals seems way high (except maybe for the day you ride 22 miles)
go here:
http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/july262002/na_masscalculator.htm
If you don’t go there here is what I got for your stats and moderate activity level:
No exercise days: 3400
Weight training days: 3850
150 min high intensity cycling day: 5200
Don’t pay any attention to that guy’s advice. I like to stay relatively lean year round while gaining muscle. I think that generally the less you have to cut off later, the better. I even liked CT’s bulking article (except that I knew about 50,000 people would take his concept and totally misunderstand the article). But this is stupid. It takes a LOT of hard work to get to true 5% bf. That’s retarded. Besides, what so many other people here have said is totally true–there’s no point to cutting if all you’re left with is skin and bone. And there’s very little chance of you being able to make it to significantly under 10% bf without any muscle. Eat clean, eat often, eat big.
Btw, Good job cutting back on your mtn. biking for the bulk. I have to say though, if you really love it, keep doing it–whenever you feel like it. I’m not one for totally stopping somebody’s passion just to get a little faster progress towards a goal. I mean, really long hard rides obviously have to be stopped, but if it’s something you enjoy doing, do it. Just be sensible (moderation, and eat a cow afterwards).
Think of the iron game as a marathon, not sprint. Although paradoxically sprints are much better for building muscle. 
keep us posted. And keep in mind to use the article archives and search button please.
[quote]JNeves wrote:
I agree you should be bulking
However I’m not sure how you did your calculations for Massive Eating, 4800cals seems way high (except maybe for the day you ride 22 miles)
go here:
http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/july262002/na_masscalculator.htm
If you don’t go there here is what I got for your stats and moderate activity level:
No exercise days: 3400
Weight training days: 3850
150 min high intensity cycling day: 5200[/quote]
You’re absolutely right. For some reason I was putting all three weekly workout lifting sessions into that calculator… No idea what I was thinking with that, but I’m getting similar totals to yours now. Really appreciate your pointing this out.
[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Your gains a are markedly decreased when bulking at such a high body fat. i’m assuming that it was measured accurately, but you want to be well below 10% bf when starting a bulk. somewhere in the 5 to 8% range. Then start bulking until you hit 12%, then maintain for a bit, then do a cut back down to 6-8% etc. being 14% you are going to store a ton of fat that if you were at a lower bodyfat wouldnt happen.
This is some of the most ridiculous “advice” I’ve ever heard.
If someone tried to follow this plan from the very beginning, they would never put on an ounce of muscle because they’re constantly switching from bulking to cutting and back again.[/quote]
Agreed. No doubt, again it is the smallest guys giving advice to others about how to build the most muscle mass.
I personally don’t think most beginners, outside of those who are obese, need to be getting their body fat percentage calculated AT ALL.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Do we have to keep doing this every single day? Are people really this delusional about their bodies and what they should do? Its like no one has any perspective anymore. Here’s a good rule of thumb; if you look like J.J. from Good Times (like this fellow), bulk…if you look like Fat Albert stop eating, but for God’s sake use some common sense.[/quote]
Common sense is dead.
You are getting a lot of advice from bodybuilders. The problem is that you are not a bodybuilder. You are just a guy who is out of shape and wanting to get in shape. If you get in shape your desire may expand to want to be a bodybuilder, but you are not there yet.
I am basically in the same situation as you. I started lifting hard 5 months ago. I did not increase my food as always recommended. The result is that I am the same weight but a lot less fat and a lot more muscle.
Will my progress stop if I don’t start eating more? I guess so, as that is what everybody says. When that happens then I can decide if I wish to make more progress by eating more.
Food wise the only thing that I have done so far is always have a pre and post workout shake. I also eat more protein then I used to as I used to not eat very much.
So why not just lift for a few months without bulking or cutting? See what happens and go from there.
[quote]onewall wrote:
You are getting a lot of advice from bodybuilders. The problem is that you are not a bodybuilder. You are just a guy who is out of shape and wanting to get in shape. If you get in shape your desire may expand to want to be a bodybuilder, but you are not there yet.
I am basically in the same situation as you. I started lifting hard 5 months ago. I did not increase my food as always recommended. The result is that I am the same weight but a lot less fat and a lot more muscle.
Will my progress stop if I don’t start eating more? I guess so, as that is what everybody says. When that happens then I can decide if I wish to make more progress by eating more.
Food wise the only thing that I have done so far is always have a pre and post workout shake. I also eat more protein then I used to as I used to not eat very much.
So why not just lift for a few months without bulking or cutting? See what happens and go from there.[/quote]
Wow that’s great advice. Why not put off actually getting in shape for a while why you “try” this out. Let us know how it lifting in a constant hypocaloric state works for you.
If this is working for you, chances are you were eating above maintenance before you started and just continued doing so. You will not build any appreciable muscle when eating under maintenance. It has been tried before and just doesn’t work.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
MODOK wrote:
Do we have to keep doing this every single day? Are people really this delusional about their bodies and what they should do? Its like no one has any perspective anymore. Here’s a good rule of thumb; if you look like J.J. from Good Times (like this fellow), bulk…if you look like Fat Albert stop eating, but for God’s sake use some common sense.
Common sense is dead.[/quote]
Problem is, there are a couple of in-betweens. The 20-30% BF, 200lbs range people. Skinny-fat, but not SKINNY-fat or skinny-FAT.
But this kid… bulk. Keep on bulking till your happy with your size.
If you have no reason to be lean (such as a sport or (REAL) weight class requirement), don’t bother cutting till you have enough muscle mass to look GOOD lean.
plus, it’s winter (for us canadians anyway!) it’s a time to wear big jackets and sweaters. I wouldn’t worry about getting cut 'till the spring.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Wow that’s great advice. Why not put off actually getting in shape for a while why you “try” this out. Let us know how it lifting in a constant hypocaloric state works for you.
If this is working for you, chances are you were eating above maintenance before you started and just continued doing so. You will not build any appreciable muscle when eating under maintenance. It has been tried before and just doesn’t work.[/quote]
You are asking how this works for me. I have already said that it has worked well and I am happy with the results.
I did not say anything about a hypocaloric state. I said that my weight has not changed at all.
I was not eating above maintenance before as I was not gaining weight before.
[quote]onewall wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Wow that’s great advice. Why not put off actually getting in shape for a while why you “try” this out. Let us know how it lifting in a constant hypocaloric state works for you.
If this is working for you, chances are you were eating above maintenance before you started and just continued doing so. You will not build any appreciable muscle when eating under maintenance. It has been tried before and just doesn’t work.
You are asking how this works for me. I have already said that it has worked well and I am happy with the results.
I did not say anything about a hypocaloric state. I said that my weight has not changed at all.
I was not eating above maintenance before as I was not gaining weight before.[/quote]
What does “happy with the results” mean? How much BF% have you dropped in how much time? What does that equate to in gains of LBM? If you’re going to suggest someone follow a plan that you are doing you should give them some stats so they can judge for themselves. That way they don’t have to take your word for it.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
onewall wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Wow that’s great advice. Why not put off actually getting in shape for a while why you “try” this out. Let us know how it lifting in a constant hypocaloric state works for you.
If this is working for you, chances are you were eating above maintenance before you started and just continued doing so. You will not build any appreciable muscle when eating under maintenance. It has been tried before and just doesn’t work.
You are asking how this works for me. I have already said that it has worked well and I am happy with the results.
I did not say anything about a hypocaloric state. I said that my weight has not changed at all.
I was not eating above maintenance before as I was not gaining weight before.
What does “happy with the results” mean? How much BF% have you dropped in how much time? What does that equate to in gains of LBM? If you’re going to suggest someone follow a plan that you are doing you should give them some stats so they can judge for themselves. That way they don’t have to take your word for it.[/quote]
Why is someone who isn’t “bodybuilding” but just “happy with results” on this site? Is this now the “make little progress and do everything EXCEPT actually build your body” think tank?
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
What does “happy with the results” mean? How much BF% have you dropped in how much time? What does that equate to in gains of LBM? If you’re going to suggest someone follow a plan that you are doing you should give them some stats so they can judge for themselves. That way they don’t have to take your word for it.[/quote]
I don’t see that I am required to post my results to prove that I am justified for being happy with the results.
There is a cost/benefit ratio to any plan. What I am suggesting is low cost, i.e. just lift but don’t worry much about diet. What you are proposing is higher cost for higher benefit. I think that my plan is more suited to somebody who does not have any history of real exercise.
If cost is no issue then why not also suggest steroids? We all decide how much effort we want to make and consider what we will get out of it. All I am saying is that for the efforts I have made I am happy with the results, and I think for somebody just starting it is a good way to go. I am not suggesting it for somebody who has been lifting for ten years and wanting to get bigger.
There is no plan that is best for everyone.
[quote]onewall wrote:
I don’t see that I am required to post my results to prove that I am justified for being happy with the results.[/quote]
You should if you expect other people to follow it.
How is it a higher cost to eat healthier and be concerned with your diet? Those who think eating healthy costs more do not eat healthy.
As for your plan being for people not suited for exercise- it’s those people that should be most concerned with diet first and foremost. More benefit could be had immediately just by cleaning up the diet and then easing into weights.
Very retarded argument.
[quote]We all decide how much effort we want to make and consider what we will get out of it. All I am saying is that for the efforts I have made I am happy with the results, and I think for somebody just starting it is a good way to go. I am not suggesting it for somebody who has been lifting for ten years and wanting to get bigger.
There is no plan that is best for everyone.[/quote]
Sounds like you are suggesting very little effort. That’s not what this site is about and it’s not what its readers should be about.
If your plan works for you then have at it. But do not discourage others who may want to actually make progress from attempting to do so just because you are too lazy.
well, I don’t think the OP is a lazy ass, as he seems to be a pretty hardcore biker. good to see he’s getting into the iron game too. While he’s lifting for those first 2-4 years, it’s also good to see him try and get some knowledge under his belt, 'cause if he didn’t, he’d be in the same spot in 2-4 years.
lose fat/gain muscle while not changing your diet? sounds like it could work, especially if you’re a noob and/if your diet is faily clean already.
these guys sound like bodybuilders to me. i.e. people who want to build their body. their on the site to get some info to improve themselves and that sounds good to me. If I lost some fat and gained some muscle, i’d say i’m “happy with the results” also. sounds like what most bodybuilders are after.
the OP asked for advice…you know, we all gotta start somewhere. If you want to lecture, get a PhD and write an article. why fill up the thread with a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with the OP.
Ok. Your arguments have convinced me. He should immediately:
(1) Starting lifting every day for at least one hour.
(2) Starting eating 3500 to 4000 calories a day. Keep a food log to track every calorie and ensure that all food is in the exact optimal proportions.
(3) Do NO other activity as it will decrease optimal muscle growth.
(4) Whatever happens do not be “happy with your results”. Work harder, grow more.
Do anything less and you don’t belong on this site and are a lazy slob. Is that better?
[quote]onewall wrote:
I don’t see that I am required to post my results to prove that I am justified for being happy with the results.
[/quote]
I am sure there are people who are simply happy they could roll their rotund asses out of bed in the morning. This site is also not about them.
[quote]onewall wrote:
Ok. Your arguments have convinced me. He should immediately:
(1) Starting lifting every day for at least one hour.
(2) Starting eating 3500 to 4000 calories a day. Keep a food log to track every calorie and ensure that all food is in the exact optimal proportions.
(3) Do NO other activity as it will decrease optimal muscle growth.
(4) Whatever happens do not be “happy with your results”. Work harder, grow more.
Do anything less and you don’t belong on this site and are a lazy slob. Is that better?
[/quote]
No, that simply confirmed that you are on the wrong site. I enjoy working out. I also enjoy making progress. This site isn’t for people who just casually train with little regard for actually making significant progress. I am sure there are other sites out there just for that.
As far as doing no other activities, I don’t know what you do for a living, but there are many professionals from doctors to lawyers on this site who are also into bodybuilding. I’m one of them. That took a whole lot of “doing other things that weren’t optimal for muscle growth”.
That doesn’t mean that bodybuilding became a non-priority. It simply wasn’t number one but I still tried my best to get my meals in and make it to the gym about 6 days a week.
You still haven’t mentioned what “happy with your results” means to you with regards to the specific results you have seen. that probably means you really haven’t made much in the way of results. That, again, is not what this site is about. People who approach training like you will never make significant progress.
If you are happy with that, fine. Be happy. Just don’t expect anyone else here to jump up and down because your weight hasn’t changed in years and no one would ever think you lifted a weight by looking at you.
You expected praise for mediocrity?
Dude I’m not very experienced but it looks to me that in your “flexing” shots your just holding your arms in the air. You have to flex you cant just hold them in the position.
I’m a newbie too.
I recently (three months ago) changed from a T-dawg diet to the massive eating diets. My caloric intake almost doubled. I’ve never felt better. I don’t think I’ve put on much bf at all, but I’ve been gaining steadily since I started.
To exemplify, I weigh now only a little less than I weighed when I started dieting. When I started my girlfriend was always on me to lose some weight…now (at almost the same weight as before) she only gives complements. I probably mis-spent my four months of “cutting” when I should have just cleaned up my diet and ate at maitanence.
If you’re new like me you probably just need to learn how to “eat well” I know I did (and am still doing). Dude, buy a hell of a lot of good food and fill your face with that every day. It seems to be working for me.