Need Advice, Please Read

MASSimino · July 6, 2007, 2:46am

I have done cycles in the past and have been off for over 5 years. I ran into an old gym acquaintance who was is also a PRO bodybuilder but no longer competing. He has put me on 2 iu of GH (1 in am and 1 in pm) with 200 mg of Test Enth (2 x per week) and Deca 200mg (1x per week) and Equip (300mg per week)

My goal is to lean up and get hard. now i know it is all diet and cardio so that is why i am posting as I have gained weight from 6’1" 230 to 245 in 5 weeks. I certainly gained muscle and loss some fat BUT it is that damn abdominal fat that I am trying to lose. I mentioned running and he advised to steer clear of that and split my cardio sessions and increase time to 45 min each. diet is on track. I went ahead and increased the gh to 1.5 iu in am and pm thinking it might speed fat loss. also just started taking 12.5 mcg of T3 this week.

GH for 6 months
Test for at least 12 weeks to 24 weeks low dosage
T3 5 weeks
EQ 6 weeks (all i have avail)
Deca 10 weeks (but thinking of dropping it due to water gain??)

I am 35yo male and also my balls have clearly shrunk. I asked about HCG etc and he again a former pro and still looking like one said not to worry unitl post cycle whenever that is 12, 16, 18 weeks…

Since my goal is really to harden and lean i am thinking to stick with just test and GH and lower test as i am experiencing water retention and do not know how to combat that…

thanks.

MASSimino · July 6, 2007, 2:35pm

Thanks Bushy but i have only 1 week left of EQ so i will finish that and not renew/continue. Unfortunately I do not have access to Masteron and anxiliaries my pro guy seems a little annoyed in providing right now…he states “are your tits sore…no…then dont worry” he believes that given my age (and he is 2 years older) and my schedule i have no need for that currently. he might be right, but i hate having to rely on others if in fact the shit hits the fan.

in regards to GH i have been on 2 iu per day (split am/pm) for 4 weeks and the last 2 weeks went up to 3iu. I think i gained mass/water wieght from that and going to go back down to 2 iu…does that sound ok? will 2 iu tighten skin and aid fat loss? I dont need muscle mass at this point so 3iu or more might be a waste for my objective (at least that is what the pro stated).

is there any anti-estrogen at a GNC that is worth the money? as i have not connection for these currently

also taking Cytomel 12.5 mcgs a day Thinking of bumpoing to 25mcg beginning of week 2

KSman · July 6, 2007, 3:13pm

You should be taking an aromatase inhibitor, AI, all through the cycle and PCT as well for a time after PCT. Arimidex/anastrozole would be the best choice. .25mg to .5mg/day. As you reduce T levels in your system, the AI can be reduced.

Use 1.0 to 1.5mg/wk after PCT for a month. Obtain from a research chem site. Do not use letro or other AIs. You can get SERMs there for your PCT. SERMs must not be stopped suddenly, taper off. And AI at that point is very beneficial.

Whoa · July 7, 2007, 1:40am

Bushy, I’m curious as to why you suggested the R-ala. I remember a lot of people liked it a few years ago, but it doesn’t seem like I’ve seen it pop up much since then. I’ve been thinking about it lately, so anything you have to say would be appreciated. Thanks.

Prisoner · July 7, 2007, 3:42am

Just how much abdominal fat are we talking about here?

Some kinds of fat in that area is really tough to lose, especially if there is loose skin involved.

It may be better seeing a surgeon for this then taking all those drugs and worrying.

As for your cycle. I agree with Bushido about losing the deca, droping the testosterone and incorporating something that doesn’t aromatize as much.

Water retention usually doesn’t occur if your diet is on point, so I would advise you to re-examine that area. I wouldn’t recomend an AI as you are going to be on for a while and these can really screw up your blood lipids, down regulate the ER e.t.c.

Basically finding a combination of steroids that will hold onto your increased Muscle mass, while you diet, yet not cause gyno or excessive water retention is what you need.

A simple test eq mix if that is what you cna get may be the answer - and by that I would recomed a 1:2 ratio of test to eq, keeping the weekly dosage to no more than 600mg.

as for your testes. I wouldn’t worry about it right now, unless your are trying to procreate, then hcg you will need. If not, they will come back following your cycle, however so may your abdominal fat, depending of course on weather you continue some kind of change in life style from your previous routine prior to the cycle, rather than being an OPRAH Winfrey type.

P.

KSman · July 7, 2007, 1:15pm

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
As for your cycle. I agree with Bushido about losing the deca, dropping the testosterone and incorporating something that doesn’t aromatize as much.

I wouldn’t recommend an AI as you are going to be on for a while and these can really screw up your blood lipids, down regulate the ER e.t.c.

[/quote]

So you want gear that does not aromatize as much, so aromatization is a concern. But you do not recommend the use of an AI. This seems contradictory.

I can’t see how lower E2 would down regulate estrogen receptors at all, and why would a DR of estrogen receptors be a problem for a guy?

You have to use a lot of AI or typically femara, to push E2 levels low enough so that blood lipids are negatively affected. If you allow E2 levels to remain elevated, the E2 will limit the gains from the testosterone and mess with libido. The E2 levels will increase SHBG and reduce the amount of bio-available T. Elevated E2 interferes with FT docking at T receptors.

Blood lipids are probably more affected by oral forms of gear.

I think that the point is to properly use an AI. More to the point, it seems impossible to take E2 too low with anastrozole. Studies on young normal men have shown that large doses seem to reach levels of 17pg/ml with either 7mg/wk or 14mg/wk. I lowered my E2, while on TRT, from 37–>22 and my blood lipids improved slightly. (TRT improved my blood lipids greatly)

Also, many lean young normal males will have E2 levels near 17pg/ml naturally. I had that level 3.5 years ago (pre-TRT when I was 55). So it is hard to argue that such an E2 level as that is a health risk. E2=17-22pg/ml is also considered optimal for libido in TRT.

I only required 1mg/wk of anastrozole to go from E2=37–>22. When on gear, one may need .25mg/day to .5mg/day to work with high levels of testosterone due to the competitive nature of this AI. (My drop of 37-22 was with TT=1025ng/dl).

Loosing fat with elevated E2, especially around the belly will be impossible for some. And some trying to loose such fat, even with no use of gear, might do very well with some long term AI to create a more favourable T:E balance.

AI has its place and seems like a necessity to me to get the best results from a cycle or TRT. It can be used without any adverse effects on blood lipids [avoid femara]. The use of an AI can avoid the loss of libido that can occur on cycle as a result of elevated E2.

An AI during and after PCT can also aid recovery and increase T levels above what could be otherwise achieved [1mg anastrozole/wk], and that small dose could be used for an extended amount of time.

juice20jd · July 7, 2007, 1:48pm

if it were myself, I would drop everything but the Test and GH, and stay on your 6 month plan. keep it simple.

Run 400-600 mg test/week for 24 weeks
GH @ 2-3 IU ED for 24 weeks

as for an AI, i agree with the pris that a 6 month duration is not a good idea…as an alternative, maybe throw in some masteron (2-300 mg/week)

…or run some a-dex until your bloat is under control (diet factors largely into this though), and then slowly taper it out.

MASSimino · July 7, 2007, 1:52pm

Well I think Prisoner is on track. I am going to get off the Deca (been on fro 5 weeks at only 200mg per week). Now should i just stop it or ween off it? Also, next week is my last pop of 300mg og EQ.

I am thinking of staying with 400mg of Test Enth (200mg 2x per week)

GH 1iu 2x per day (as mass growth is not my objective so more than that might be a waste for my purposes and get me bigger)

no one is addressing the T3 usage…is there a reason???

Prisoner’s mention of NOT using AI or HCG is coinciding with the Pro who is directing me. Given the pro is a pro and Prisoner’s physique is on point I have to think they know what they are talking about alhough I too have read studies mentioning otherwise. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO COMPLICATED!??

MASSimino · July 7, 2007, 1:55pm

PRISONER,

Also you mention keeping the weekly dosage to 600. Is that Test, EQ or both? Please let me know.

kroby · July 7, 2007, 3:27pm

[quote]MASSimino wrote:
WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO COMPLICATED!??

juice20jd wrote:
if it were myself, I would drop everything but the Test and GH, and stay on your 6 month plan. keep it simple.
[/quote]

???

Prisoner · July 8, 2007, 4:01am

[quote]MASSimino wrote:
PRISONER,

Also you mention keeping the weekly dosage to 600. Is that Test, EQ or both? Please let me know.[/quote]

yes, everything combined at 600mg. You would be supprised what one can do with that amount. No it is not ambitious, but no need. I have definitely learned from personal experience that less is always best.

that is the same reason why I advocate not using the AI if at all possible. Less drugs to have to metabolise is better for you.

a combo of say 300mg test and 300mg eq, or 4 test, 2 eq, or 4 eq, 2 test is where I think you would get some really good results, yet keep side effects low.
The testes do come back, As I have said it all has to do with blood flow to the area - less work to do manufacturing testosterone means less blood flow, and I have been on cycles for up to 8 months at a time and I assure you it all comes back following the cycle.

Use HCG while on cycle if you are trying to make a baby.

The G at 2-3 ius is fine per day.

the T-3 at 12.5 to 25 mcg per day will give you a boost in your metabolism and I don’t see a problem with using it, provided you never had thyroid problems prior to it’s use.

12.5 is so low dose your body won’t even suppress it’s own production.

I hope I covered everything.

Whoa · July 8, 2007, 12:22pm

Thanks bushy. I’m not planning on using GH any time soon, but I would like to gain a few pounds this summer, and I’m looking at supps (not looking to do any juice right off) to help keep fat gain at bay if I can.

I remember R-ala was touted as a potent nutrient-partitioner a few years back, but I hadn’t heard anything since. Didn’t know if it was just hype at the time and then people found out it sucked, lol. I guess I’ll pick some up and see how it goes.

MASSimino · July 9, 2007, 3:31am

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
MASSimino wrote:
PRISONER,

Also you mention keeping the weekly dosage to 600. Is that Test, EQ or both? Please let me know.

yes, everything combined at 600mg. You would be supprised what one can do with that amount. No it is not ambitious, but no need. I have definitely learned from personal experience that less is always best.

that is the same reason why I advocate not using the AI if at all possible. Less drugs to have to metabolise is better for you.

a combo of say 300mg test and 300mg eq, or 4 test, 2 eq, or 4 eq, 2 test is where I think you would get some really good results, yet keep side effects low.

The testes do come back, As I have said it all has to do with blood flow to the area - less work to do manufacturing testosterone means less blood flow, and I have been on cycles for up to 8 months at a time and I assure you it all comes back following the cycle.