Let’s say, hypothetically speaking, someone on TRT has a T level of 1000. His identical twin brother has a natural T level of 1000. Will there be any difference in muscle building potential, muscle proteïne syntesis and/or body composition after some time?
In other words; provides TRT benefits over natural T levels regarding body composition and excersise performance?
Trying to finds studies, but can’t find them…
You can be in the highest quartile of testosterone and not have the genes necessary for muscle building. A lot of guys go on TRT and expect the ability to build loads of muscle, some are disappointed.
Isn’t this a huge assumption?
Why would properly measured 1,000ng/dL natural be his peak testosterone? Would the mean be a better representation? (Assuming normal distribution over time)
Exogenous testosterone is known to have a natural decay characteristic, so measuring at the trough is best for controlling the minimum. But what about the peak?
Do we know how endogenous testosterone varies? What are the cycle times? What does the distribution look like during a cycle of natural testosterone release? What is the peak? Low? Mean? Standard deviation?
In other words, let’s make the comparison as close to apples-to-apples as possible.
Let’s discuss this assumption first!
Why assign natural with a 1,000 peak, and not also with the TRT person?
Nonetheless, as I understood the OP question. He was considering twins with the only variable being one was relying on his own testosterone and the other was using exogenous testosterone. The only way this question makes any scientific sense is if the twins were accessing the same amount of testosterone.
I see our different approaches.
Let me express the method I approach problems. First I check all assumptions. I require them to be as close to unquestionable as possible.
I had a good work friend who was one of the most logical people I worked. He could logically prove most anything he wanted. His flaw, which almost no one saw, was that in his argument there was at least one faulty premise. He and I argued tooth and nail. His logic was flawless, yet his premises might not be.
Assuming both twins have identical accessible testosterone, IMO there would be no difference in body composition and exercise performance.
On the down side the TRT has disrupted his natural production of testosterone and has needlessly complicated his life. (I know this is not what you intended with the thread)
Not every man has the ability to look like the Dwayne Johnson, there will be a lot of guys who have high expectations that might not be inline with what they can achieve.
Both are correct, but comparison serves no value.
Anyone without a genetic disorder can build muscle.
Very few, and I do mean very few, can gain as muscle as they wish. (Note: I acknowledge many say they don’t want as much muscle as is demanded to be on the Olympia stage. I don’t include myself in that group.)
Yes. Trt twin has an advantage. Natural twin can be stressed, not sleep well, etc and his levels will dip.
Now I like that. Taking TRT as an insurance policy of what “might” happen. “Doc, I might get stressed out, and could get poor sleep, and all that could lower my testosterone. Don’t I qualify for TRT?”
At pinpointed instant of time … no. As others have stated natural t levels will fluctuate a great deal versus controlled TRT. That aside… no. And @systemlord is correct that some just don’t have the genes for it. For example my biceps lack but my shoulders and triceps ar large. I have poor outter pec insertions but great inner. Point being some guys have poor all around genetics for muscle building and not just weak points.
Wow… didnt expect so much reply’s. Thank you all for valuable inpunt which, clearly, you guys took the time for!
English isnt my first language, so i’m doing my best to really understand some of the more complex responses.
From what i could understand (in very short) is that the TRT twin would have an advantage? Mainly because more ‘higher’ and stable elevated Testosterone levels and considerable more free testosterone.
I have no visible pecks or abs (flat) and probably never will. My brother and father are the same.
My arms, shoulders and legs or anywhere else is naturally muscular and lean.
Yep. That natty will go up and down. The TRT guy is 1000ng at his lowest point (likely).
Plenty of other reasons, but that’s the main one
General practice is to measure a natural TT at it’s peak and the TRT user at their trough. It’s a safe assumption to make since this guy didn’t clarify in his post which was which
Then clearly, general measuring practice makes the question misleading. I can’t imagine anyone asking what looked like a question comparing equal testosterone with the exception that one was endogenous and the other exogenous and a measuring method makes them completely different.
This grossly fails a scientific method of comparison. The two must be equally measured or the comparison holds zero merit.
I see this question asked a lot, and really the timing of the blood test is just one point of comparison. You have the lifestyle factors that don’t influence the TRT users levels, their training history and methods, overall genetics, etc.
But yes, if you measured both men at that exact moment in time then 1000ng natty is 1000ng TRT. Problem is they won’t stay at that 1000ng consistently throughout the week.
TRT testing is for the sole purpose of adjusting dose and frequency. It is a worthless comparison to endogenous testosterone.
It would seem an apples-to-apples comparison of exogenous and endogenous testosterone would be very complex. I would best guess that area under the curve in the same time frame as the frequency times of exogenous injections.
I can see how exogenous injections would be fairly predictable, that is the area under the curve between injections should be consistent.
Just seeing the various responses, I would think many people would believe EVERY man would be better off on TRT than to stay natural. That is a frightening thought. I suppose DuPont had it right: “Better Living Through Chemistry.”
That’s exactly how people often get TRT. Some intentionally wreck their natural production a few days before measurement and then get a prescription because of that.
Very valid point and indeed a reason why TRT potential is higher than natural potential.
Absolutely correct point. We measure natural T at peak and TRT at trough, so the same number does not mean the same.
I don’t think that’s what OP intended either.
I’ll make another point. Most TRT “patients” take 1-2 injections a week, but some more than that. The fluctuations with test cypionate with twice a week injections are about as large as natural fluctuations in a day. This means that even with the same peak and trough values, the AUC would be larger with TRT and therefore provide more muscle growth.
I knew a guy who took his wife’s birth control pills to get a doctor to prescribe testosterone.