My Take on Full Body Training

dankid · November 11, 2009, 9:19pm

Trextacy there is no reasoning with X or his followers. You try to be sensible and point out what you disagree with him on, and he just calls you an idiot or homosexual. If I recall correctly, this is troll tactic 6 or 7.

I respect X for stating that he doesn’t support censorship, but at the same time, Loathe him for his arrogance, and the fact that he thinks his voice is the only voice that needs to be heard. Sure he may be bigger, and stronger, and more “succesful” ; thats a relative term, but whats the point of even posting on a COMMUNITY forum if your gonna try to make it YOUR FORUM? Just sit in your room by yourself and think about how you know everything and how hardcore you are.

I think that is the biggest problem with these forums; and not just T-Nation. You have a group of people that truly want to discuss these things (however big, strong and hardcore they are) and then you have a group of people that doesn’t want to discuss it at all, and just want to display there “alphaness” and put people down, and hi-jack threads, etc. CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

KyleT · November 11, 2009, 9:21pm

I’ve never even read anything by Chad Waterburry. I thought that TBT stood for “total body training” and meant the same thing as full body training. Wow, I didn’t mean to support a CW program, I have absolutely no idea what the TBT program is.

What I’ve been talking about is programs like madcow 5x5, stronglifts, starting strength, anything by Mark Rippetoe. In fact, Rippetoe even has a chapter on split style training in his book telling how to progress using it even though his entire book is basically a full body approach to training.

I’ve made good progress training like I have and an internet forum isn’t going to stop me from doing what works. Today I’m doing power cleans, rows, calf raises, preacher curls, db curls. I consider that full body workout. Monday I did deadlifts, bench press, and incline db press. Once again I consider that full body training since I pair an upper body lift with a lower body lift. Shit’s been working for me personally that’s all that I really care about.

trextacy · November 11, 2009, 9:27pm

[quote]KyleT wrote:
I’ve never even read anything by Chad Waterburry. I thought that TBT stood for “total body training” and meant the same thing as full body training. Wow, I didn’t mean to support a CW program, I have absolutely no idea what the TBT program is.

What I’ve been talking about is programs like madcow 5x5, stronglifts, starting strength, anything by Mark Rippetoe. In fact, Rippetoe even has a chapter on split style training in his book and says nothing bad about it even though his entire book is basically a full body approach to training.

I’ve made good progress training like I have and an internet forum isn’t going to stop me from doing what works. Today I’m doing power cleans, rows, calf raises, preacher curls, db curls. I consider that full body workout. Monday I did deadlifts, bench press, and incline db press. Once again I consider that full body training since I pair an upper body lift with a lower body lift. Shit’s been working for me personally that’s all that I really care about.[/quote]

feel free to use the term TBT, but in these parts (T-Nation) that term is inexorably linked with a specific program by CW called “Total Body Training” that caused quite a stir around here several years ago. just by way of context…

it’s kind of like saying “5x5” or “20-rep squats”- that can mean different things to different people, but too many they refer to specific programs (not all 5 sets of 5 are “5x5” and not all programs that have a 20-rep set of squats is “20-rep squats”).

but yeah, if it’s been working then keep going.

iwong · November 11, 2009, 9:34pm

Wow, you’d think after that long well thought out post be CT, this whole issue would be put to rest. CT put it perfectly that

There is just too much close mindedness and herd mentality going around here.

LankyMofo · November 11, 2009, 9:46pm

[quote]iwong wrote:
Wow, you’d think after that long well thought out post be CT, this whole issue would be put to rest. CT put it perfectly that

Everybody can learn something if he keeps his mind open, and you never know where it will come from. I know that I learned a lot of stuff from Olympic lifters and powerlifters that helps me build more muscle. And I know that I took some stuff away from bodybuilders to help correct weak areas that were holding my strength gains back.

There is just too much close mindedness and herd mentality going around here.[/quote]

He didn’t say any of those people were small. And besides, there is more than 1 herd going around here.

dankid · November 11, 2009, 10:04pm

Kyle T, what you are doing is actually a split, but this is the classification that CT mentioned is not very important. You are kinda doing a push/lower pull/lower split, so the bodyparts are broken down and SPLIT betwen workouts. And I agree, it doesn’t matter what you call it, if its working its GOOD.

I had a little revelation while pulling my tire. I think this would solve SOME of the problems around here. There are a lot of debatable topics in this industy. And we see a lot of heated posts based on these topics. As CT mentioned, these are the “things that dont matter”. Stuff like, TBT vs. Splits, tempo, TUT, bulking as opposed to the “clean bulk”, Low carb, compounds vs. isolation, failure, etc. etc. I think most of us can agree that what really matters is that you get stronger and eat enough to grow, more or less. But there are these topics that ARE debatable, and come up repeatadly in the forums. There is very little conclusive evidence to make a clear decision on these things, because you’ll find that they all work, FOR SOME PEOPLE.

So rather than have this stuff cause problems in the forums, why not have a separate section for “Things that dont matter” Some authors, or Mods can write up some stickies to these topics, that give GENERAL recommendations and some of the opinions out there. After the sticky, there can be discussion on these topics where people share their opinions and what has and hasn’t worked for them. When members post questions, like “my take on TBT” or “number of sets/reps for hypertrophy” in the bodybuilding forum, their threads will be moved to the “Things that dont matter” forum.

I dunno, I think this would be of great value to the entire site, and could clean up the bodybuilding forum. I actually think the bodybuilding forum should be changed to the “building muscle forum” and that there should be a separate forum for bodybuilding specific stuff, like: (talk about different events, posing, preping for a show, etc.) It just makes sense to me. If you look at the figureathlete.com site, they have a separate forum for training.

Just my thoughts for anyone who cares.

TyGym · November 11, 2009, 10:51pm

[quote]mr popular wrote:
Your ability to gain bodyweight is dictated by your diet, not what training program you are doing. Just because you switched to a new program and are now gaining weight again doesn’t mean jack shit about the program except that maybe it is less taxing if you haven’t changed your diet at all.

Also, if you were training on a split and everything stopped making progress all together, that is a strong hint that you are either under-eating, under-recovering, or training improperly.

Your entire body doesn’t just decide to up and plateau all at once in the presence of a good diet and training program.[/quote]

quoted for truth.

Mad_Duck · November 12, 2009, 1:31am

[quote]Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.[/quote]

I’m pretty much x2 on this with you on this. The traditional don’t do curls, but work everything each time, as long as you’re making progress, etc. mindset is one I trusted for too long. Since I don’t think I’ve got a good bodytype for (traditional) bodybuilding, I ended up with an imbalance that seems to becoming more commonplace among lifters who don’t question methods enough (no biceps, upper chest or medial delts)
Recently, I’ve been adding in extra “bro-style workouts” (Incline Bench, Curls & Lateral Raises) and gee, I’ve been progressing.

One last thing. I started to notice, while doing my own arm growth tests (which the anti-arm-isolation crowd might want to try for themselves;) This might be a new discovery for some, but I’m guessing it’s PAINFULLY FUCKING OBVIOUS! to those who’ve publicly demonstrated progress. Why is it that I could do a few sets of chin-ups and follow them with my ‘regular’ amount of curls, but if I did the curls first, I’d only get 1/4 of the amount of chins? Could it be, is it possible, that I might not have been working my arms (a lagging bodypart) as hard as I thought because my back (a less lagging bodypart ;'))was compensating while doing compound exercises?

jasmincar · November 11, 2009, 11:30pm

On a related note I talked yesterday the the 1998 world strongest man Hugo Girard and I asked him what he tought about training arm directly. He looked at me like as if I said something really dumb and he said ‘‘of course you gotta train arm directly’’

WguitarG · November 12, 2009, 12:27am

[quote]trextacy wrote:
your original mistake = “low volume training”

end of story- but a good story nonetheless and thanks for sharing (serious). it shows that programs don’t make you big, consistency and effort do.

The biggest, leanest, strongest guys I know have done some sort of full body training, and they push the volume and frequency, but “autoregulate” as necessary to keep performance high and gains going. As CT said, autoregulation is a big component of knowing how much to do when, but ulimately stimulating the most muscle fibers the most frequently with the biggest exercises will lead to the most hypertrophy.

If you get a week point, address it and give that part attention, but don’t avoid an approach that will allow the most stimulation most frequently (so more overall muscle growth) for fear that your medial delts may not get hit enough. Just get in some more medial delt work when you can.

Prof X created a straw man years ago based on getting his thong in a twist over Chad Waterbury making some jokes at bodybuilder’s expense, and the marketing approach used to describe/name programs. He is still not over it. He now rails against anything like it and defends “splits” with a religious fervor unmatched by any keyboard warrior I’ve ever seen.

Should I go back and count how many posts X has on this thread alone? (there is at least 1 thread per month)

Now he is saying people who recommend TBT or point out its merits claim that it is the ONLY thing that works or superior to everything else. NOT TRUE. He also says that people who train “full-body” don’t directly work muscle groups or use machines or isolation movements. NOT TRUE.

“TBT”= a program by Chad Waterbury.

“Full body” is shorthand any program built around a big lower body movement, an upper body push and an upper body pull. Plenty of people use programs like Madcow 5x5 to great effect. If you need to split it up further, do an upper lower 4 days a week. An upper/lower is built around the same principles as full-body (do more, more often) and has more in common with full-body than it does a “traditional bodypart split”.

So, you could do full-body 3 days per week (M,W, F- your cornerstone sessions), do abs/calves/arms on 2 separate days (isolations out the yin-yang, Tues and Thurs), and build a big strong fucking body…some people would get bigger/stronger faster doing that than they would with their “arm day” or “chest day” on a 5-way bodypart split.

The arguments against full-body are BS, as any system DONE INCORRECTLY won’t work. Just because full-body has pitfalls doesn’t mean it’s worthless. Splits are done incorrectly all the time.

I’ve given lists of people who have naturally gotten nice physiques doing full-body on these threads before. There are some posters around here (although more at other sites) who have built impressive physiques using the principles (more than the pre-fab programs). There are also plenty of good full-body programs out there that have nothing to do w/ Chad Waterbury.[/quote]

I definitely hear where you are coming from and can respect your point of view, but for the sake of brevity I cut some corners on my story. I actually have used a higher volume (10 sets of 3 for 3-4 compound exercises wasn’t cutting it) while training the entire body 3 times per week, and I found that it was impossible for me to train intensely on the squat or deadlift and still give it my all on my pressing movements. Also, I didn’t respond well to training legs three times per week, even if the third day was a unilateral movement. I think in total, if I wanted to train a muscle group three times per week, it would be in a specialization phase for just one or two muscle groups, while training others at a reduced volume one day per week or not at all if they were already stimulated (shoulder training on a chest/triceps spec phase).

Lock · November 12, 2009, 7:45am

[quote]Mad_Duck wrote:
Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.

I’m pretty much x2 on this with you on this. The traditional don’t do curls, but work everything each time, as long as you’re making progress, etc. mindset is one I trusted for too long. Since I don’t think I’ve got a good bodytype for (traditional) bodybuilding, I ended up with an imbalance that seems to becoming more commonplace among lifters who don’t question methods enough (no biceps, upper chest or medial delts)
Recently, I’ve been adding in extra “bro-style workouts” (Incline Bench, Curls & Lateral Raises) and gee, I’ve been progressing.

One last thing. I started to notice, while doing my own arm growth tests (which the anti-arm-isolation crowd might want to try for themselves;) This might be a new discovery for some, but I’m guessing it’s PAINFULLY FUCKING OBVIOUS! to those who’ve publicly demonstrated progress. Why is it that I could do a few sets of chin-ups and follow them with my ‘regular’ amount of curls, but if I did the curls first, I’d only get 1/4 of the amount of chins? Could it be, is it possible, that I might not have been working my arms (a lagging bodypart) as hard as I thought because my back (a less lagging bodypart ;'))was compensating while doing compound exercises?[/quote]

Yeah, My lateral delts(medial means toward the midline of your body, so that would be your anterior delts) were also lagging a lot, along with my chest, biceps, triceps, and calves. They are coming along though, thanks to the fact that I learned to think for myself, create my own damn program, watch how I was progressing, and learn to feel when my body wants to be trained again. It’s all common sense, really, now that I think about it, but it was damn sure made very complicated by some of these “elite coaches”.

tribunaldude · November 12, 2009, 9:23am

trextacy is a smart dude who “usually” makes sense. He just chooses to live on a different planet, but “usually” knows when to keep silent.

Personally, I wouldn’t add him to the list of “forum fools” anytime soon.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.

Hey, “trextacy” just wrote that no one ever claimed that TBT was superior…so you apparently dreamed all of that which means I am to blame somehow for your lack of progress by listening to…people that apparently don’t exist according to him.

Oh, and by the way, you dreamed that whole “don’t train biceps directly” bullshit as well.

If i wasn’t clear, my apologies, but my point was that attributing claims of superiority to full-body, then tearing down full-body on that basis is a straw man.

the issue is whether full-body is a valid muscle building approach. your nuancing of the points in some of your posts notwithstanding, it’s pretty clear that you aren’t a fan (fair statement) and that a lot of it has to do w/ (1) perception that it claims to be the end all be all by CW’s fanboys, (2) perceived avoidance of machines/isolation movements and sole focus on so-called compound lifts and (3) lack of direct work for some muscle groups (which you say leads to imbalances).

there have been other issues, to be sure, but if i’m wrong in the above, please let me know what exactly is your beef- that you post voluminiously in these debate threads is W/O question, and no one is mistaken about what side you are on, so what gives?

AS AN ASIDE- if I recall (not going back to it now) OP stated he was doing full body and making gains, but thinking about switching things up to a split. If the situation were reversed (was gaining on a split but thinking about full-body) you would’ve ripped your hair and screamed “if it’s working then why stop?!” I’ve seen that thread(s) before. Here, because he was doing TBT and gaining, you take issue and (seem to) encourage his abandoning his current program.

First, you’re an idiot.

Second, you don’t even see me talking about “full body” as I am mostly going against these “TBT newbs” who log on literally thinking all of the hyperbole spewed by CW is actually truth absolute. These are the same ones who logged on by the hundreds to tell us that training arms was to be avoided because back training did enough for them.

But of course you missed all of this…because you were staring at my ass.

And trust me, I know that it is one beautiful man ass that simply beckons you to observe it and follow it around the forum…but this is getting old. You aren’t that bright or that interesting.

Bottom line, I enjoy making progress and weight lifting. I enjoyed meeting CT. I have overall enjoyed the act of participating on this site and while you may spend all of those nights awake tossing and turning because you think my “tone” is too much for you, in the end, that same tone works for me and overrides your attempts to act as if progress made is of lesser importance to theory.

That is all for now as even responding to you is boring and wasting my precious time.

Have a great one, guy.

But please…stop staring at my ass.[/quote]

Professor_X · November 12, 2009, 1:37pm

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
trextacy is a smart dude who “usually” makes sense. He just chooses to live on a different planet, but “usually” knows when to keep silent.

Personally, I wouldn’t add him to the list of “forum fools” anytime soon.

[/quote]

That’s you. I consider anyone who spends this much effort worrying about my “tone” in my posts to have some issues. This is also not the first time. His attacks aren’t even on the subject as much as they are directly at me. Maybe he shows his “brilliance” elsewhere…and I am equally disinterested in caring about that as well.

trextacy · November 12, 2009, 2:35pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
tribunaldude wrote:
trextacy is a smart dude who “usually” makes sense. He just chooses to live on a different planet, but “usually” knows when to keep silent.

Personally, I wouldn’t add him to the list of “forum fools” anytime soon.

That’s you. I consider anyone who spends this much effort worrying about my “tone” in my posts to have some issues. This is also not the first time. His attacks aren’t even on the subject as much as they are directly at me. Maybe he shows his “brilliance” elsewhere…and I am equally disinterested in caring about that as well.[/quote]

Thanks, tribunaldude. It’s a little chilly on my own planet, but at least I’m not a “forum fool” in someone’s eyes! And while I suspect X will ban me when he becomes a Mod, it will be interesting to see how it goes when long-time members who buy Biotest supplements (I’m a level 4, so it’s not like I’m just here to troll) get banned for being “idiots” and “trolls”, and the only thing those trolls have in common is disagreeing with X and defending some of the principles/training described by some T-Nation contributors (including CT in this very thread).

X- I don’t worry about your “tone”, and I don’t deride you near as much as you do me (and others). I commented on your “assholery” and that your POV in this debate (and others) is driven by “other” things (you have an axe to grind). I mean- those are 100% true statements, as you have taken pride in smacking people down, being a jerk and going toe to toe with CW in the past. You have called me an idiot, a fool, and said I’m “staring at your ass” (still don’t get that one). Yet you are the one who feels attacked?

Why is this thread 10+ pages? Because you’ve come in and stirred the pot. The only common denominator in ALL of these shit-fest threads is you and your posting multiple times on each page calling people pussies, wimps, idiots, homosexuals, fanboys, non-trainers, etc. every 3rd post.

ALL THAT ASIDE- Feel free to address all of the points I made about full-body training and I’m happy to leave the personal shit out of it. I made plenty of points about why doing more per session than “chest”, more times a week is a great form of training (and better for many people).

Professor_X · November 12, 2009, 3:54pm

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
tribunaldude wrote:
trextacy is a smart dude who “usually” makes sense. He just chooses to live on a different planet, but “usually” knows when to keep silent.

Personally, I wouldn’t add him to the list of “forum fools” anytime soon.

That’s you. I consider anyone who spends this much effort worrying about my “tone” in my posts to have some issues. This is also not the first time. His attacks aren’t even on the subject as much as they are directly at me. Maybe he shows his “brilliance” elsewhere…and I am equally disinterested in caring about that as well.

Thanks, tribunaldude. It’s a little chilly on my own planet, but at least I’m not a “forum fool” in someone’s eyes! And while I suspect X will ban me when he becomes a Mod, it will be interesting to see how it goes when long-time members who buy Biotest supplements (I’m a level 4, so it’s not like I’m just here to troll) get banned for being “idiots” and “trolls”, and the only thing those trolls have in common is disagreeing with X and defending some of the principles/training described by some T-Nation contributors (including CT in this very thread).

X- I don’t worry about your “tone”, and I don’t deride you near as much as you do me (and others). I commented on your “assholery” and that your POV in this debate (and others) is driven by “other” things (you have an axe to grind). I mean- those are 100% true statements, as you have taken pride in smacking people down, being a jerk and going toe to toe with CW in the past. You have called me an idiot, a fool, and said I’m “staring at your ass” (still don’t get that one). Yet you are the one who feels attacked?

Why is this thread 10+ pages? Because you’ve come in and stirred the pot. The only common denominator in ALL of these shit-fest threads is you and your posting multiple times on each page calling people pussies, wimps, idiots, homosexuals, fanboys, non-trainers, etc. every 3rd post.

ALL THAT ASIDE- Feel free to address all of the points I made about full-body training and I’m happy to leave the personal shit out of it. I made plenty of points about why doing more per session than “chest”, more times a week is a great form of training (and better for many people).[/quote]

Please. Your very first action was to INDIRECTLY accuse me in another thread of being responsible for how everyone else posts…despite the fact that my first post in that thread was going against what everyone else was writing…yet you don’t want to make it personal? You are the one who used the word “tone” before…yet that is now not what you meant?

You made it personal. Next time, keep your personal problems to yourself.

Airtruth · November 13, 2009, 4:55am

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Agreed, Nick, my training partner works 60-70 hours a week in construction (physical job) and he is preparing for a bodybuilding contest. Wakes up at 3:30 to do morning cardio, do his work day, then train with me a 5pm. He does this 5 days a week… while on a diet.
[/quote]

When does he have sex?

Cephalic_Carnage · November 13, 2009, 6:41pm

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Agreed, Nick, my training partner works 60-70 hours a week in construction (physical job) and he is preparing for a bodybuilding contest. Wakes up at 3:30 to do morning cardio, do his work day, then train with me a 5pm. He does this 5 days a week… while on a diet.

When does he have sex?[/quote] → “Wakes up at 3:30 to do morning cardio”

vcjha · November 13, 2009, 9:16am

I admit it to everyone after 2 years wasting my life away finding “the best training routine,” “the perfect bodybuilding diet,”, etc., I am still a complete newb. Christian Thibaudeau probably think I’m one of the biggest idiots on this forum and such. Prof, your post has made me realize that this searching for “the perfect thing” is probably one of the worst ways to reach my goal. I’m glad CT has explained autoregulation. I still have some questions though.

You have said that making training routines should be based on your goals and what you should do to maximize muscle gain. I have tried countless methods of weight training from splits, to full body, to static contraction, to h.i.t., to gvt, and so on. Is there anything you can recommend me as a good start?

I’m just so confused on weight training and even nutrition that I have decided to stop weight training and dieting as I probably am doing more damage than harm. (not being able to increase in weight despite my greatest efforts, following recommendations to eat 250 g of protein, 16 g of fat, 125 g of carbs). but the greatest I have is how to tailor it to my needs. I really don’t know how to customize my training to fit me.

I’m not asking people to tweak my routine for me since I have realized that’s probably not the way to go. Rather, someone to tell me what signs to look for, and how to determine what I should change or how I should change my training. I must sound like the biggest idiot on this forum, but I only want to learn now. i gotta admit if people start saying eat, lift, and sleep, that is of no help to me. But I am open to anyone who actually KNOWS what they are talking about. I’m tired of asking help from I dont know or seem to be “experts.”

Very last question. I have tried to understand the “rep,” as told by ct but it makes things too confusing and complicated. I remembered I read a post of you saying something along the lines of, “People who are experienced and know their shit have been lifting like this for years and now suddenly it’s a concept called The Rep.” Can you explain the rep in simpler terms since you know exactly what he’s talking about?

dankid · November 13, 2009, 4:49pm

[quote]vcjha wrote:
I admit it to everyone after 2 years wasting my life away finding “the best training routine,” “the perfect bodybuilding diet,”, etc., I am still a complete newb. Christian Thibaudeau probably think I’m one of the biggest idiots on this forum and such. Prof, your post has made me realize that this searching for “the perfect thing” is probably one of the worst ways to reach my goal. I’m glad CT has explained autoregulation. I still have some questions though.

You have said that making training routines should be based on your goals and what you should do to maximize muscle gain. I have tried countless methods of weight training from splits, to full body, to static contraction, to h.i.t., to gvt, and so on. Is there anything you can recommend me as a good start?

I’m just so confused on weight training and even nutrition that I have decided to stop weight training and dieting as I probably am doing more damage than harm. (not being able to increase in weight despite my greatest efforts, following recommendations to eat 250 g of protein, 16 g of fat, 125 g of carbs). but the greatest I have is how to tailor it to my needs. I really don’t know how to customize my training to fit me.

I’m not asking people to tweak my routine for me since I have realized that’s probably not the way to go. Rather, someone to tell me what signs to look for, and how to determine what I should change or how I should change my training. I must sound like the biggest idiot on this forum, but I only want to learn now. i gotta admit if people start saying eat, lift, and sleep, that is of no help to me. But I am open to anyone who actually KNOWS what they are talking about. I’m tired of asking help from I dont know or seem to be “experts.”

Very last question. I have tried to understand the “rep,” as told by ct but it makes things too confusing and complicated. I remembered I read a post of you saying something along the lines of, “People who are experienced and know their shit have been lifting like this for years and now suddenly it’s a concept called The Rep.” Can you explain the rep in simpler terms since you know exactly what he’s talking about?[/quote]

It seems to me that you are still looking for “the perfect program”. Your still focusing on all the things THAT DONT MATTER. I think one thing we can take away from the “discussion” on this thread, is that TBT or splits CAN work, and especially for someone at your level, it doesn’t really matter. To stop training, because you think you are “doing more harm than good” doesn’t make much sense. Its actually a little disturbing to me.

There are a few options for someone like you. (1) Get on the right track with eating and training focusing on the THINGS THAT MATTER, (2) Find a GOOD trainer or coach, and have them get you on the right track.

To keep things as simple as possible for you, you need to focus on the things THAT MATTER. For eating this is basically CALORIES. If you are trying to gain weight/muscle you need to eat more calories, and if you are trying to lose weight/fat you need to eat less calories. Macro-nutrient levels and supplements are not going to be a huge issue, as long as there are no glaring pitfalls in your diet.

Just a few things to watch out for, would be not taking in excessive amounts of sugars and refined carbs, and making sure your getting a decent amount of quality proteins (somewhere between 1-2g per Lb) You could get really anal with these things and try to be a perfecionist, ex: <10g sugar per day, 2g of protein per lb, nutrient timing, only carbs after workouts, etc.

But these things; especially at your level are not going to have that much of an effect. Its all going to come down to total calories. The main thing is be reasonable with diet.

As for training. All that matters is that the muscles you want bigger get stronger. You just have to find out what volume, frequency, reps, sets, etc. will get those muscles stronger. There is nothing wrong with just hitting a few lifts to develop overall muscle, but if there is a specific muscle that you want to grow (ex arms) then you should likely hit it directly with some isolation moves.

Something like “starting strength” works pretty well, and Im sure someone else could point you in the direction of a good split. It doesn’t matter. All that matters is that you lift MORE from week to week, month to month.

vcjha · November 13, 2009, 6:45pm

[quote]dankid wrote:
vcjha wrote:
I admit it to everyone after 2 years wasting my life away finding “the best training routine,” “the perfect bodybuilding diet,”, etc., I am still a complete newb. Christian Thibaudeau probably think I’m one of the biggest idiots on this forum and such. Prof, your post has made me realize that this searching for “the perfect thing” is probably one of the worst ways to reach my goal. I’m glad CT has explained autoregulation. I still have some questions though.