My Take on Full Body Training

Training Bodybuilding
221

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
dankid wrote:
Its funny though, CT has a response similar to this topic, and doesn’t necessarily say TBT is inferior, but that fact will be overlooked. Maybe he was trying to be politically correct, or maybe its the fact that it truly doesn’t matter. But Prof X and others, were the ones that came in here and made this all about how Splits are better, and TBT is for “the undedicated newbs”.

Have you been reading? Several rather big veteran members of this board were pointed out to having used TBT fairly successfully. Obviously different things work for different people and if you’ve got results to show for it, your opinion is probably valuable.

The point is no one likes when small, weak people come on to this board claiming all beginners should start with TBT to get some sort of base as if there aren’t many large people that started out on splits that are now big and strong.

Cute, Your hero finally says he didn’t says categories don’t matter and you decide to jump in…

CT says TBT not so bad prelude to Recant Order Prof X → Nut Huggers → The rest just get quiet.

I have to give credit to Dankid regardless of idiotic statements he sticks to his guns or at least says his point from the first post to the last.

OP says He used full body exercises with good success and has anybody else enjoyed it, but that he’s not a full body person. NOTHING about TBT vs SPLITS. hmmmmmm wonder who brought up TBT vs SPLits first??? Then preceded to say it was bullshit, and never a better choice at anytime time. Has multiple threads taking an Axe, A bullwhip, and a bat to a dead horse then on the last page says well I never said it was a category. Boy did all his fucking soldiers get quiet, I think he confused them they’re all walking around with questions marks on top of their heads.

:slight_smile: I love T-Nation.

Um, I don’t even understand the first part of your post, you should try polishing that up a bit.

Other than that, I’ve gotten into plenty of e-arguments with Professor X in the past so if you’re looking to paint someone as one of his followers you can look elsewhere, pipsqueak.[/quote]

You so cute.

222

Not that it matters at this point (as far as this thread is concerned) but I think what I’ve stumbled upon is better stated in the training frequency thread MODOK posted that’s in the “best of T-Nation”. I’ve never trained the same muscle more than once per week and feel that has more to do with my recent progress than the order/organization of the exercises.

I continue to get extra reps/lbs almost every session so I’m going to stick with what I’m doing until that changes.

223

I don’t post often, but I feet compelled to chime up. I have made the best gains of my life during two periods of time. The first period was as an 18 year-old college freshman. I didn’t follow any particular routine on T-Nation, but I would go heavy and hard four days per week, hitting each muscle group twice weekly(heavy/light system). I made some decent progress and wonderful strength gains.

Unfortunately, I seriously injured my back, so I took a year off (I couldn’t even lift a 45lb weight off the weight tree). I started reading T-Nation articles constantly. I would say I started reading too much. I bought into the isolation exercise exodus and full body training, 3-times per week nonsense.

I followed Chad Waterbury (I’m not calling Chad out, as it was my own inexperience for attempting to follow a program that got me in trouble, echoing Christian’s sentiments) programs for a couple years with little results, yet I still preached the TBT dogma.

It was like I was paralyzed by what I was reading. It HAD to be true, but I made literally no progress in that period of time following pre-written programs. I then started to say fuck it, I’ll stick to one push, one pull, and one lower body exercise and call it a day.

Made decent progress, but horribly imbalanced physique. No chest, lats that disappeared into my rib cage, poor shoulder width, and biceps that looked puny in comparison to my abnormally large triceps. So I would say my first step into progress, or resuming progress, was to quit reading so many damn articles and following pre-written programs that were not catered to my individual needs.

The second step came when I met two guys at my local gym while a senior in college. They laughed at my lack of isolation exercises and low volume training. I swore up and down to them that I just didn’t respond to high volume, 4-5 day per week training (somehow I had memory loss from my time as an 18yr old).

I started to lift with these incredibly strong and large guys (255lb, 10% bodyfat on one at 6’3, widest shoulders I’ve ever seen on a guy; and 225lb with visible abs on the other at 5’7).

I lifted just as they lifted, 4-5 days per week pushing the weights as high as they would go in a variety of rep ranges (not just 10 sets of 3 or 4 x 6) (they ramped up naturally). We would train a muscle group based on how we felt.

Sometimes hitting one muscle group 3 times per week, other times only 1. I got up to 225lb (from 200lb) while still fairly lean. Still had shitty chest development and shoulders, but my back was getting huge, and my biceps were finally starting to match my triceps).

I then did DC training to get up to 255lb, but chose my own exercises (I hired Dante for the first go-round, then chose my own exercises and deload periods based on how I felt). I don’t use DC anymore (tendonitis from rest-pause pressing movements, or any “program,” and I think not blindly following a pre-written program or one coach’s methods are what those two bodybuilders taught me the most.

Hell, I generally consider CT’s advice to be amongst the best in the business, but I don’t follow his recommendations down to the letter. I know I can’t, because only training in rep ranges of below 6 would kill my joints (I used to only train this way, and when I experimented with it recently, I confirmed my beliefs).

I have taken what I need from him, and incorporated it into my own training. If my results aren’t so good, I chuck it.

I think the take-home points are: Don’t follow pre-written programs, don’t think in terms of split of total body training, focus on hitting particular muscle groups with enough stimulation to elicit a response, whether it be 1, 2, or 3 times per week, and finally, if you can only make it to the gym 2 days per week, find a new hobby.

I find it hard to believe that someone can only find 2 days per week to train when I have friends who work 80+ per week at large law firms who find the time to put in 4 days.

224

[quote]WguitarG wrote:
I don’t post often, but I feet compelled to chime up. I have made the best gains of my life during two periods of time. The first period was as an 18 year-old college freshman. I didn’t follow any particular routine on T-Nation, but I would go heavy and hard four days per week, hitting each muscle group twice weekly(heavy/light system). I made some decent progress and wonderful strength gains.

Unfortunately, I seriously injured my back, so I took a year off (I couldn’t even lift a 45lb weight off the weight tree). I started reading T-Nation articles constantly. I would say I started reading too much. I bought into the isolation exercise exodus and full body training, 3-times per week nonsense.

I followed Chad Waterbury (I’m not calling Chad out, as it was my own inexperience for attempting to follow a program that got me in trouble, echoing Christian’s sentiments) programs for a couple years with little results, yet I still preached the TBT dogma.

It was like I was paralyzed by what I was reading. It HAD to be true, but I made literally no progress in that period of time following pre-written programs. I then started to say fuck it, I’ll stick to one push, one pull, and one lower body exercise and call it a day.

Made decent progress, but horribly imbalanced physique. No chest, lats that disappeared into my rib cage, poor shoulder width, and biceps that looked puny in comparison to my abnormally large triceps. So I would say my first step into progress, or resuming progress, was to quit reading so many damn articles and following pre-written programs that were not catered to my individual needs.

The second step came when I met two guys at my local gym while a senior in college. They laughed at my lack of isolation exercises and low volume training. I swore up and down to them that I just didn’t respond to high volume, 4-5 day per week training (somehow I had memory loss from my time as an 18yr old).

I started to lift with these incredibly strong and large guys (255lb, 10% bodyfat on one at 6’3, widest shoulders I’ve ever seen on a guy; and 225lb with visible abs on the other at 5’7).

I lifted just as they lifted, 4-5 days per week pushing the weights as high as they would go in a variety of rep ranges (not just 10 sets of 3 or 4 x 6) (they ramped up naturally). We would train a muscle group based on how we felt.

Sometimes hitting one muscle group 3 times per week, other times only 1. I got up to 225lb (from 200lb) while still fairly lean. Still had shitty chest development and shoulders, but my back was getting huge, and my biceps were finally starting to match my triceps).

I then did DC training to get up to 255lb, but chose my own exercises (I hired Dante for the first go-round, then chose my own exercises and deload periods based on how I felt). I don’t use DC anymore (tendonitis from rest-pause pressing movements, or any “program,” and I think not blindly following a pre-written program or one coach’s methods are what those two bodybuilders taught me the most.

Hell, I generally consider CT’s advice to be amongst the best in the business, but I don’t follow his recommendations down to the letter. I know I can’t, because only training in rep ranges of below 6 would kill my joints (I used to only train this way, and when I experimented with it recently, I confirmed my beliefs).

I have taken what I need from him, and incorporated it into my own training. If my results aren’t so good, I chuck it.

I think the take-home points are: Don’t follow pre-written programs, don’t think in terms of split of total body training, focus on hitting particular muscle groups with enough stimulation to elicit a response, whether it be 1, 2, or 3 times per week, and finally, if you can only make it to the gym 2 days per week, find a new hobby.

I find it hard to believe that someone can only find 2 days per week to train when I have friends who work 80+ per week at large law firms who find the time to put in 4 days. [/quote]

your original mistake = “low volume training”

end of story- but a good story nonetheless and thanks for sharing (serious). it shows that programs don’t make you big, consistency and effort do.

The biggest, leanest, strongest guys I know have done some sort of full body training, and they push the volume and frequency, but “autoregulate” as necessary to keep performance high and gains going. As CT said, autoregulation is a big component of knowing how much to do when, but ulimately stimulating the most muscle fibers the most frequently with the biggest exercises will lead to the most hypertrophy.

If you get a week point, address it and give that part attention, but don’t avoid an approach that will allow the most stimulation most frequently (so more overall muscle growth) for fear that your medial delts may not get hit enough. Just get in some more medial delt work when you can.

Prof X created a straw man years ago based on getting his thong in a twist over Chad Waterbury making some jokes at bodybuilder’s expense, and the marketing approach used to describe/name programs. He is still not over it. He now rails against anything like it and defends “splits” with a religious fervor unmatched by any keyboard warrior I’ve ever seen.

Should I go back and count how many posts X has on this thread alone? (there is at least 1 thread per month)

Now he is saying people who recommend TBT or point out its merits claim that it is the ONLY thing that works or superior to everything else. NOT TRUE. He also says that people who train “full-body” don’t directly work muscle groups or use machines or isolation movements. NOT TRUE.

“TBT”= a program by Chad Waterbury.

“Full body” is shorthand any program built around a big lower body movement, an upper body push and an upper body pull. Plenty of people use programs like Madcow 5x5 to great effect. If you need to split it up further, do an upper lower 4 days a week. An upper/lower is built around the same principles as full-body (do more, more often) and has more in common with full-body than it does a “traditional bodypart split”.

So, you could do full-body 3 days per week (M,W, F- your cornerstone sessions), do abs/calves/arms on 2 separate days (isolations out the yin-yang, Tues and Thurs), and build a big strong fucking body…some people would get bigger/stronger faster doing that than they would with their “arm day” or “chest day” on a 5-way bodypart split.

The arguments against full-body are BS, as any system DONE INCORRECTLY won’t work. Just because full-body has pitfalls doesn’t mean it’s worthless. Splits are done incorrectly all the time.

I’ve given lists of people who have naturally gotten nice physiques doing full-body on these threads before. There are some posters around here (although more at other sites) who have built impressive physiques using the principles (more than the pre-fab programs). There are also plenty of good full-body programs out there that have nothing to do w/ Chad Waterbury.

225

Agreed, Nick, my training partner works 60-70 hours a week in construction (physical job) and he is preparing for a bodybuilding contest. Wakes up at 3:30 to do morning cardio, do his work day, then train with me a 5pm. He does this 5 days a week… while on a diet.

My ex-girlfriend won the provincial bodybuilding championships while working 60+ hours at a farm, and still managed to train 5 days a week.

226

[quote]trextacy wrote:

Prof X created a straw man years ago based on getting his thong in a twist over Chad Waterbury making some jokes at bodybuilder’s expense, and the marketing approach used to describe/name programs. He is still not over it. He now rails against anything like it and defends “splits” with a religious fervor unmatched by any keyboard warrior I’ve ever seen.

Should I go back and count how many posts X has on this thread alone? (there is at least 1 thread per month)

Now he is saying people who recommend TBT or point out its merits claim that it is the ONLY thing that works or superior to everything else. NOT TRUE. He also says that people who train “full-body” don’t directly work muscle groups or use machines or isolation movements. NOT TRUE.[/quote][

Wait…I said what? Please find these quotes of me saying exactly what you just wrote. Many of the people here had to be TOLD that training biceps is ok because many of these newbs came onto the site actually believing that you should avoid training arms directly or that doing so was for pussies. If you somehow missed all of those threads over the last 3 years or so, blame yourself.

This half assed attempt to call me out INdirectly is about as weak as you can get.

227

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
WguitarG wrote:I find it hard to believe that someone can only find 2 days per week to train when I have friends who work 80+ per week at large law firms who find the time to put in 4 days.

Agreed, Nick, my training partner works 60-70 hours a week in construction (physical job) and he is preparing for a bodybuilding contest. Wakes up at 3:30 to do morning cardio, do his work day, then train with me a 5pm. He does this 5 days a week… while on a diet.

My ex-girlfriend won the provincial bodybuilding championships while working 60+ hours at a farm, and still managed to train 5 days a week.[/quote]

People who want to do this will find a way. I knew quite a few guys both in medical school and dental school (as we knew each other from the gym) who quit training once their work load picked up…for 4 years. One of them actually became obese in that time period. I never quit training despite the work load.

Most people just don’t want it bad enough to make any sort of sacrifice. These will often be the same ones crying that everyone else is on steroids and that is why they aren’t making the same progress.

228

Sweet, the usual suspects show up and turn and otherwise shitty thread even worse.

Now instead of beating the “TBT v Split” dead horse, we have the faceless ringing the “I hate X” bell for all to hear.

Jesus Christ.

229

So, when will the unproductive sacks of shit that clutter up this site get banned?

230

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Sweet, the usual suspects show up and turn and otherwise shitty thread even worse.

Now instead of beating the “TBT v Split” dead horse, we have the faceless ringing the “I hate X” bell for all to hear.

Jesus Christ.[/quote]

pot, meet kettle.

and I think X’s voluminous posts on this thread PRE-ceded anyone calling him out for being a jackass with an agenda. there is cause and effect. i didn’t say squat in this thread until PAGE 9. do you deny that X is the ONLY common denominator in these tbt/splits shit-fests?

also, there was plenty of substance in my post on the prior page about the debate at hand, but (as usual) X has made everything personal, so failure to his his unique contributions and motivations for the discussion would be remiss.

and to answer X’s question above- you have got to be kidding me. i can’t imagine X would ever claim not to have made statements like that about full-body training.

231

[quote]Lock wrote:
So, when will the unproductive sacks of shit that clutter up this site get banned?[/quote]

I think the real question is what they get out of it. Dankid does NOT bodybuild or even take weight lifting very seriously. I have no doubt that if you saw him, nothing but giggles would leak from your lips as you wondered why he spoke up so much after achieving so little.

Guys like that are just here for attention, not because they love weight lifting.

I get tired of seeing their crap everywhere but even when they finally finish revamping the site and allow me to MOD like Tim said, I probably would not ban them because I do not believe in censorship outside of true trolls…which they are sliding very close to at the moment.

232

Goddamnit, get over it people.

233

I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.

234

[quote]trextacy wrote:
i didn’t say squat in this thread until PAGE 9. do you deny that X is the ONLY common denominator in these tbt/splits shit-fests?[/quote]

Dude likes bodybuilding and posts here, so yeah he might talk about it now and again. Another common denominator are people saying stupid shit (supersetting deadlifts, etc) and people with no public progress talking about how awesome their gains are. (I’m not talking about you, so don’t get all bent out of shape.)

Fair enough. I have read a lot of your posts, and you do seem knowledgeable, but…

You often shit on the guy. I mean we get it. You disagree with his attitude, he doesn’t cater to the lowest denominator, and that bothers you. Oh well. He has a hardcore attitude, and you don’t like it. Fine. So of course he is going to take it personal when most of your posts are riding his nuts.

Now call me a nutthugger… We’ve seen that pattern before.

235

[quote]Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.[/quote]

Hey, “trextacy” just wrote that no one ever claimed that TBT was superior…so you apparently dreamed all of that which means I am to blame somehow for your lack of progress by listening to…people that apparently don’t exist according to him.

Oh, and by the way, you dreamed that whole “don’t train biceps directly” bullshit as well.

236

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.

Hey, “trextacy” just wrote that no one ever claimed that TBT was superior…so you apparently dreamed all of that which means I am to blame somehow for your lack of progress by listening to…people that apparently don’t exist according to him.

Oh, and by the way, you dreamed that whole “don’t train biceps directly” bullshit as well.[/quote]

If i wasn’t clear, my apologies, but my point was that attributing claims of superiority to full-body, then tearing down full-body on that basis is a straw man.

the issue is whether full-body is a valid muscle building approach. your nuancing of the points in some of your posts notwithstanding, it’s pretty clear that you aren’t a fan (fair statement) and that a lot of it has to do w/ (1) perception that it claims to be the end all be all by CW’s fanboys, (2) perceived avoidance of machines/isolation movements and sole focus on so-called compound lifts and (3) lack of direct work for some muscle groups (which you say leads to imbalances).

there have been other issues, to be sure, but if i’m wrong in the above, please let me know what exactly is your beef- that you post voluminiously in these debate threads is W/O question, and no one is mistaken about what side you are on, so what gives?

AS AN ASIDE- if I recall (not going back to it now) OP stated he was doing full body and making gains, but thinking about switching things up to a split. If the situation were reversed (was gaining on a split but thinking about full-body) you would’ve ripped your hair and screamed “if it’s working then why stop?!” I’ve seen that thread(s) before. Here, because he was doing TBT and gaining, you take issue and (seem to) encourage his abandoning his current program.

237

[quote]trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.

Hey, “trextacy” just wrote that no one ever claimed that TBT was superior…so you apparently dreamed all of that which means I am to blame somehow for your lack of progress by listening to…people that apparently don’t exist according to him.

Oh, and by the way, you dreamed that whole “don’t train biceps directly” bullshit as well.

If i wasn’t clear, my apologies, but my point was that attributing claims of superiority to full-body, then tearing down full-body on that basis is a straw man.

the issue is whether full-body is a valid muscle building approach. your nuancing of the points in some of your posts notwithstanding, it’s pretty clear that you aren’t a fan (fair statement) and that a lot of it has to do w/ (1) perception that it claims to be the end all be all by CW’s fanboys, (2) perceived avoidance of machines/isolation movements and sole focus on so-called compound lifts and (3) lack of direct work for some muscle groups (which you say leads to imbalances).

there have been other issues, to be sure, but if i’m wrong in the above, please let me know what exactly is your beef- that you post voluminiously in these debate threads is W/O question, and no one is mistaken about what side you are on, so what gives?

AS AN ASIDE- if I recall (not going back to it now) OP stated he was doing full body and making gains, but thinking about switching things up to a split. If the situation were reversed (was gaining on a split but thinking about full-body) you would’ve ripped your hair and screamed “if it’s working then why stop?!” I’ve seen that thread(s) before. Here, because he was doing TBT and gaining, you take issue and (seem to) encourage his abandoning his current program.

[/quote]

First, you’re an idiot.

Second, you don’t even see me talking about “full body” as I am mostly going against these “TBT newbs” who log on literally thinking all of the hyperbole spewed by CW is actually truth absolute. These are the same ones who logged on by the hundreds to tell us that training arms was to be avoided because back training did enough for them.

But of course you missed all of this…because you were staring at my ass.

And trust me, I know that it is one beautiful man ass that simply beckons you to observe it and follow it around the forum…but this is getting old. You aren’t that bright or that interesting.

Bottom line, I enjoy making progress and weight lifting. I enjoyed meeting CT. I have overall enjoyed the act of participating on this site and while you may spend all of those nights awake tossing and turning because you think my “tone” is too much for you, in the end, that same tone works for me and overrides your attempts to act as if progress made is of lesser importance to theory.

That is all for now as even responding to you is boring and wasting my precious time.

Have a great one, guy.

But please…stop staring at my ass.

238

[quote]Professor X wrote:
trextacy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lock wrote:
I’m particulary pissed of about these matters (the misinformation they spread) because I just wasted almost two years of lifting because of that damn STAY UNDER 10% BODYFAT WHILE DOING TBT AND YOU WILL SHIT LIGHTNING bullshit that was being spread around here. In the last six months I’ve focused on eating and actually training every body part, and re-training that body part when I felt it was ready, not when some program said it was supposed to be ready. I’m making the best progress I have ever experienced, and as I continue to learn more about my own body, I think it will get even better.

Hey, “trextacy” just wrote that no one ever claimed that TBT was superior…so you apparently dreamed all of that which means I am to blame somehow for your lack of progress by listening to…people that apparently don’t exist according to him.

Oh, and by the way, you dreamed that whole “don’t train biceps directly” bullshit as well.

If i wasn’t clear, my apologies, but my point was that attributing claims of superiority to full-body, then tearing down full-body on that basis is a straw man.

the issue is whether full-body is a valid muscle building approach. your nuancing of the points in some of your posts notwithstanding, it’s pretty clear that you aren’t a fan (fair statement) and that a lot of it has to do w/ (1) perception that it claims to be the end all be all by CW’s fanboys, (2) perceived avoidance of machines/isolation movements and sole focus on so-called compound lifts and (3) lack of direct work for some muscle groups (which you say leads to imbalances).

there have been other issues, to be sure, but if i’m wrong in the above, please let me know what exactly is your beef- that you post voluminiously in these debate threads is W/O question, and no one is mistaken about what side you are on, so what gives?

AS AN ASIDE- if I recall (not going back to it now) OP stated he was doing full body and making gains, but thinking about switching things up to a split. If the situation were reversed (was gaining on a split but thinking about full-body) you would’ve ripped your hair and screamed “if it’s working then why stop?!” I’ve seen that thread(s) before. Here, because he was doing TBT and gaining, you take issue and (seem to) encourage his abandoning his current program.

First, you’re an idiot.

Second, you don’t even see me talking about “full body” as I am mostly going against these “TBT newbs” who log on literally thinking all of the hyperbole spewed by CW is actually truth absolute. These are the same ones who logged on by the hundreds to tell us that training arms was to be avoided because back training did enough for them.

But of course you missed all of this…because you were staring at my ass.

And trust me, I know that it is one beautiful man ass that simply beckons you to observe it and follow it around the forum…but this is getting old. You aren’t that bright or that interesting.

Bottom line, I enjoy making progress and weight lifting. I enjoyed meeting CT. I have overall enjoyed the act of participating on this site and while you may spend all of those nights awake tossing and turning because you think my “tone” is too much for you, in the end, that same tone works for me and overrides your attempts to act as if progress made is of lesser importance to theory.

That is all for now as even responding to you is boring and wasting my precious time.

Have a great one, guy.

But please…stop staring at my ass.[/quote]

Ohhhhh, it’s so awkward when you try to be a hardass and funny at the same time.

And by what measure am I an idiot? I’m happy to engage in any objective measure of that.

We can start with reading comprehension- the title of the thread is “My take on full body training”…it is YOU who insist on making it about “TBT newbs”. You are still wringing your hands over debates from a couple of years ago and rehashing shit that doesn’t need re-hashing.

And I get it- you have a lot of posts, met CT, got Mag10 and Anaconda before everyone else. I mean, holy shit, just re-reading your post is making me LMFAO.

Instead of engaging on ANY issues, you intentionally confuse the issue, name-call, name-drop, supplement drop and imply that I’m an idiot homosexual who wants to stare at your ass. Classic.

239

[quote]Professor X wrote:
when they finally finish revamping the site and allow me to MOD [/quote]

Inmates running the asylum?!
Oh boy oh boy, this is gonna be great!

240

For anyone that is still interested on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, i want to share my opinions. Im not going to comment on what has happened on this past page. That is a topic for another day.

X, you called me out for not being a bodybuilder, and not having a love for weights. That is a completely incorrect statement, so im going to defend myself. You are correct, I dont compete in bodybuilding. But yourself as well as most here do not. Ok, I understand that people will say there is no difference. Fine. If we are talking bodybuilding, like posing and symmetry, I dont comment, because I have no interest in that area. But as far as BUILDING MY BODY, I am just as much a “bodybuilder” as most here. And different people do it for different reasons. I myself do not want to be obese and weak like the majority of the population, and truly enjoy lifting weights and training. And I know for a fact that there are MANY people that train for the same reasons as me and have the same goals. And there is no difference building muscle for a show, or just because you enjoy it. As I said, I dont comment on the actual bodybuilding stuff.

And as for the comment about how I dont take this seriously, YOU ARE WRONG. If I didn’t care, i’d let people like you go on to claim you “know” everything, and wouldn’t be interested in this discussion/debate in the first place.

So enough of that.

Back to the original topic for anyone who is still interested.

First off, I still believe beginners should train full body or TBT whatever you want to call it. Its not the classification of TBT that I think is important, it is that they should be doing fewer exercises, with a higher frequency. The whole purpose of this period is to learn the movement patterns and get stronger. I strongly feel that a higher frequency doing each lift, with less variations is important during this time. This lends itself to 3x per week TBT, but I suppose if you had the time, you could train 6x per week doing upper/lower or possibly AM/PM workouts and do a body part split hitting each movement 3x per week. Its just 3x a week TBT makes more sense here.

Secondly, is the topic of isolation vs. just compounds. IMO, it doesnt hurt to START with just compounds. This isn’t necessarily because I think anything deserves less attention, its just that learning the big lifts is much harder than learning isolation movements, and there are certain muscle groups that might not need to be isolated. So starting off with something simple; like starting strength, is a good idea.

Ok so we are past the whole beginner topic.

Now for whatever reason, someone might choose to do TBT. The most likely reason is that they can only train 2-3x per week in the gym. Sure this might mean they are not dedicated, but whatever. Might as well optimize training for this situation and their goals, and not just say screw it. Also, I believe that there are individuals for one reason or another that may do better with only training 3x per week. More is not always better.

Ok, so a person has been training with either TBT or something else for a while. They are no longer a beginner. There will likely be two big problems with TBT. (1) It is gonna be tough to train your entire body heavy every session. (2) You’ll likely develop imbalances and “assymetries”, especially if you are only focusing on compound lifts.

Ok, but these can easily be solved.

(1) Two main options that I see. Each day, can start with a “main” lift. Either a press, pull or legs. This will be the lift that you train the heaviest or with the most intensiveness. Then you proceed to your second muscle group and train with either a different focus (different quality) or just use less intensiveness. And you do the same thing for the last muscle grouping.

The other option would be to start with a big compound for the “main” body part. Then do mainly isolation work or less demanding stuff for the other two muscle groupings. Either one of these methods can work, its all going to come down to how hard you train and how fast you can recover. But its pretty safe to say, that most people will do very poorly if they train their entire body heavy 3x per week and push hard on each session.

(2) Ok, so people will disagree with me on this one, but I think its best to start with training just compounds, and see what ends up lagging. During the initial weight gain when a “newb” gains a lot of weight easily, it will become apparent what muscles develop faster than others. (For example, by only doing compounds, my hip musculature, chest, lats, and biceps develop fast. While my triceps, shoulders, calves, and hamstrings develop slower.) I think this is entirely different for each person, as Ive known people who’s chest lags from just benching while their triceps develop fast, and im reversed from this. So you notice what areas need special attention, and adjust your plan accordingly to include more work to focus on these areas. This can easily be accomplished by adding in isolation movements on your off days, or decreasing some of the work for muscles that are “over-developing” and adding in the isolation work.

Now this may not apply to bodybuilding in the competative sense, but I strongly feel that this will work if done correctly for those that are just looking to get a lot bigger and not have any horrible asymatries.

I myself dont train full body, because I cant force myself to stay out of the gym 4 days per week. I do upper/lower and would prefer to train more often, but have to force myself to just stick with 4x per week. I may at sometime train 5-6x per week, in which case i’ll gladly try a split.

If I were to train 3x per week this is what MY routine would look like:

M:

Shoulder press 5x5
Row 4x8
RDL 4x6-8
DB bench 4x10
lunges 3x10
Triceps 4x10

W:

Squat 5x5
Bench 4x8
Stepup 4x10
Row 3x12
RDL 3x12
Calves 5x5 or 4x10

F:

Deadlift 3x5
Shoulder press 4x8
Row 4x6
triceps 4x6
Facepulls 4x12
Floor press or flys 4x8

Im not really sure if thats how I would set it up, because I’d have to make changes as I went, but its just an example. The point is that you can build muscle doing ANY type of program. Its all about how you make that program work.