My Road to Elite

novaeer · August 18, 2009, 3:12am

[quote]mrodock wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:

Thanks buddy. If anyone has any ideas about the hip drift. Looks pretty darn subtle to me today. But the bar shifting on my back is damn weird. [/quote]

First of all, are you trying to get your ass to touch the ground because that squat looked way deep.

Second, I’m no expert and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so take what I say for what it’s worth - an opinion. Looking at the video it appears you are leaning a tad more on your left leg. It could be that one of your legs is slightly longer than the other and you haven’t adjusted your stance to take that into account; however, you could have a bit of a misaligned pelvis. If it is the latter, some corrective work and treatment by a PT or chiro can get you squared away pretty quickly.

mrodock · August 18, 2009, 3:34am

[quote]novaeer wrote:
mrodock wrote:
Yeah I certainly understand what you are saying about the raw and shirted bench. Right now I just suck at both. As long as I get good at shirted bench that is good enough for me. That said, the reason I have been focusing on the raw bench is that I figured I need to start building a decent base.

I have the RTS book and really like his approach toward bench in particular. I think I would be terrible at the RPEs for squat and deadlift but probably good with bench. I like the idea that there is room for experimentation and working on bottom end and top end strength simultaneously. There is one important thing tokeep in mind though. I still don’t know how to fucking bench (in Dave Tate’s words). So I think I should stay pretty basic with the movements.

I would have to do the bench days on my squat days. Do you think that can work? If so I would like to run a 6 week mesocycle followed by a 5 week mesocycle. Then it will be time for a 12 week meet cycle. Give me any thoughts you have on this so far novaeer. Thanks man!

I think you can definitely set it up that way. As far as exercise selection is concerned, do you have access to bands or chains, because they can really help out with developing that all-important lockout strength you need for shirted bench?

Can you break down what your training week looks like so we can figure out how the bench exercises fit into the overall scheme?[/quote]

I have access to chains. I currently have 1 mini, monster mini, and light. I could double up on any of those that I need but I have to learn how to set it up. If chains could do the trick for these next few weeks that would probably be for the best. Should I order an extra mini-band considering my bench numbers?

Training week

Wed.

Squat (in about half the weeks this is a double squat session)

Good Morning or other squat/deadlift supplement

Fri.

Deadlift (in half the weeks this is a double deadlift session)

Single leg exercise

Sun.

Squat (in half the weeks this is a double squat session)

Good Morning or other squat supplement

Wednesday-Raw Bench
Main Raw Press
Raw Assistance
Shoulders
Lats

Sunday-Shirt Bench
Main Lockout Variation
Lockout Assistance
Lockout Supplement
Lats

So my lats get hammered pretty good on Fridays from all the deadlfting I do. But I am also thinking of putting in some extra work on Wednesday and Sunday. Nothing too major.

As for the exercises.

Day 1

Main Raw Press: Pause Bench (~2 sec. pause)

Raw Assistance: BB Incline (touch and go)

Shoulders: Sahrmann Press

Lats: Lat Pulldowns

Day 2

Main Lockout Variation: Bench (touch and go with chains) How much chain weight should I use?

Lockout Assistance: 2 Board Press or Floor Press (with chains?) THOUGHTS?

Lockout Supplement: Rolling DB Extensions

Lats: Low Rows and Pull-ups

How does this look? I want to put fairly equal emphasis on top end and bottom end strength.

Any tips for carrying this out? Should I limit the volume to around 15-20 reps on the cyclic exercises in the first volume block? Should I have similar rep protocols for cyclic exercises on each day? Should I do 5’s the first week, 4’s the next, 3’s the next leading into the higher intensity? Any thoughts no matter how random are welcome.

mrodock · August 18, 2009, 3:40am

[quote]novaeer wrote:
mrodock wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:

Thanks buddy. If anyone has any ideas about the hip drift. Looks pretty darn subtle to me today. But the bar shifting on my back is damn weird.

First of all, are you trying to get your ass to touch the ground because that squat looked way deep.

Second, I’m no expert and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so take what I say for what it’s worth - an opinion. Looking at the video it appears you are leaning a tad more on your left leg. It could be that one of your legs is slightly longer than the other and you haven’t adjusted your stance to take that into account; however, you could have a bit of a misaligned pelvis. If it is the latter, some corrective work and treatment by a PT or chiro can get you squared away pretty quickly. [/quote]

Yeah I don’t fuck around on depth if my hips are loose enough. I figure eventually it will help my sumo deadlift quite a bit.

I have been to some pretty shitty PT’s in the past. Is there any way to figure out someone that knows what the hell they are doing?

dropshot001 · August 18, 2009, 4:55am

[quote]mrodock wrote:

Well said. I think psychology is your calling. It’s not too late to start a new major. By the way, there is a new thread in the bodybuilding forum that is just begging for your input. [/quote]

which one is it? the threads there get so many replies so fast that i can’t tell what is new or not? did my best friend the guy with the skeleton hand av make a thread?

and i think food science is calling my name.

novaeer · August 18, 2009, 5:40pm

Check your PMs, bud.

dropshot001 · August 19, 2009, 2:19pm

oooooo, someone got a pm…you must be important

mrodock · August 19, 2009, 11:10pm

[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
oooooo, someone got a pm…you must be important :)[/quote]

You have one too . . . from me . . . from yesterday

mrodock · August 19, 2009, 11:12pm

[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
mrodock wrote:

Well said. I think psychology is your calling. It’s not too late to start a new major. By the way, there is a new thread in the bodybuilding forum that is just begging for your input.

which one is it? the threads there get so many replies so fast that i can’t tell what is new or not? did my best friend the guy with the skeleton hand av make a thread?

and i think food science is calling my name.[/quote]

I think we all know criminal justice is the best preparation for a person that wants to work in the nutrition field. You should know that!

mrodock · August 19, 2009, 11:21pm

Week 8, Day 1

Squats (beltless)
1x5x210 (50%)
1x4x250 (60%)
2x3x295 (70%)
2x3x335 (80%)
3x2x355 (85%)

Bench (short pause)
1x5x175@8
1x5x185@9
3x5x175@8.5, 9, 9.5

Squats (beltless)
1x5x210 (50%)
1x4x250 (60%)
2x3x295 (70%)
4x2x335 (80%)

Lat Pulldowns (wide grip)
1x20x70
1x20x80
1x20x90

Sumo Good Mornings
5x5x205

DC Lat Stretch

I haven’t done bench for reps with a pause in a long time. That definitely made a big difference in the weight I could handle. I just generally felt like shit on bench today.

But squats felt pretty damn good. A couple of the last reps of sets were difficult but not difficult enough to warrant the belt. Looks like I will bump my max up another 10 pounds for volume block starting next week.

Someone asked me if good mornings were dangerous for my back. That was when I was using 135 . . .

Big deadlift day on Friday. Jumping in the suit and pulling some singles.

novaeer · August 19, 2009, 11:39pm

[quote]mrodock wrote:
Week 8, Day 1

Squats (beltless)
1x5x210 (50%)
1x4x250 (60%)
2x3x295 (70%)
2x3x335 (80%)
3x2x355 (85%)

Bench (short pause)
1x5x175@8
1x5x185@9
3x5x175@8.5, 9, 9.5

Squats (beltless)
1x5x210 (50%)
1x4x250 (60%)
2x3x295 (70%)
4x2x335 (80%)

Lat Pulldowns (wide grip)
1x20x70
1x20x80
1x20x90

Sumo Good Mornings
5x5x205

DC Lat Stretch

I haven’t done bench for reps with a pause in a long time. That definitely made a big difference in the weight I could handle. I just generally felt like shit on bench today.

But squats felt pretty damn good. A couple of the last reps of sets were difficult but not difficult enough to warrant the belt. Looks like I will bump my max up another 10 pounds for volume block starting next week.

Someone asked me if good mornings were dangerous for my back. That was when I was using 135 . . .

Big deadlift day on Friday. Jumping in the suit and pulling some singles.[/quote]

Just give the bench a little time. When I first started with this type of template, I was very underwhelmed by what I could do. Pausing all the reps, fuhgedaboudit I would’ve cried like a little biatch. I think you made a good choice backing down the weight when you felt 185 was a 9.

Good luck with the pulls and don’t forget to wear the Under Armour personal-trainer-guy shirt. Also, if you have the chance, get some vids of your bench work.

mrodock · August 19, 2009, 11:58pm

[quote]novaeer wrote:
mrodock wrote:
Week 8, Day 1

Squats (beltless)
1x5x210 (50%)
1x4x250 (60%)
2x3x295 (70%)
2x3x335 (80%)
3x2x355 (85%)

Bench (short pause)
1x5x175@8
1x5x185@9
3x5x175@8.5, 9, 9.5

Squats (beltless)
1x5x210 (50%)
1x4x250 (60%)
2x3x295 (70%)
4x2x335 (80%)

Lat Pulldowns (wide grip)
1x20x70
1x20x80
1x20x90

Sumo Good Mornings
5x5x205

DC Lat Stretch

I haven’t done bench for reps with a pause in a long time. That definitely made a big difference in the weight I could handle. I just generally felt like shit on bench today.

But squats felt pretty damn good. A couple of the last reps of sets were difficult but not difficult enough to warrant the belt. Looks like I will bump my max up another 10 pounds for volume block starting next week.

Someone asked me if good mornings were dangerous for my back. That was when I was using 135 . . .

Big deadlift day on Friday. Jumping in the suit and pulling some singles.

Just give the bench a little time. When I first started with this type of template, I was very underwhelmed by what I could do. Pausing all the reps, fuhgedaboudit I would’ve cried like a little biatch. I think you made a good choice backing down the weight when you felt 185 was a 9.

Good luck with the pulls and don’t forget to wear the Under Armour personal-trainer-guy shirt. Also, if you have the chance, get some vids of your bench work.[/quote]

Too damn funny.

Do you know if under armour spikey haired personal trainer guy shirt is IPF legal?

Yes I shall be getting much more video in the near future.

Ruggerlife · August 20, 2009, 12:17am

[quote]mrodock wrote:
novaeer wrote:
[/quote]

mrodock and novaeer,

Does this bench template allow for bench accessory work? Specifically hypertrophy work for the tris, shoulders and chest?

I don’t know much about this type of training although everything I’ve heard has been positive. If a little hypertrophy work is allowed I think it would really help in the long run. I’d suggest either doing the traditional ramping up to a single all out set or mixing this with a bit of DC style rest-pause.

I don’t think you need much only ~2 movements, twice a week or so. The single allout set/rest-pause does cause DOMs, but since you don’t annihilate the muscle with multiple hard sets you recover VERY fast. For example, I’m completely recovered from my Friday night session by the time I bench on Wednesday.

If it can’t go into the program then just file it away for another time, but if it can then I can make some recommendation/what’s working for me and then dropshot would know this stuff for sure.

novaeer · August 20, 2009, 3:16am

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:

mrodock and novaeer,

Does this bench template allow for bench accessory work? Specifically hypertrophy work for the tris, shoulders and chest?

I don’t know much about this type of training although everything I’ve heard has been positive. If a little hypertrophy work is allowed I think it would really help in the long run. I’d suggest either doing the traditional ramping up to a single all out set or mixing this with a bit of DC style rest-pause.

I don’t think you need much only ~2 movements, twice a week or so. The single allout set/rest-pause does cause DOMs, but since you don’t annihilate the muscle with multiple hard sets you recover VERY fast. For example, I’m completely recovered from my Friday night session by the time I bench on Wednesday.

If it can’t go into the program then just file it away for another time, but if it can then I can make some recommendation/what’s working for me and then dropshot would know this stuff for sure.[/quote]

I’d say there’s always room for hypertrophy work and that is taken into account with the volume blocks as well as the higher rep ranges one would use on the supplemental lifts. However, I’d like to hear about what you have used since attacking things from a different angle is always a good thing.

Ruggerlife · August 20, 2009, 5:49pm

[quote]novaeer wrote:

I’d say there’s always room for hypertrophy work and that is taken into account with the volume blocks as well as the higher rep ranges one would use on the supplemental lifts. However, I’d like to hear about what you have used since attacking things from a different angle is always a good thing.[/quote]

When I dropped a weight class earlier this year I realized (actually even worse, other people noticed) that I was much smaller through the chest and shoulders. I was about to start the 5/3/1 template and noticed C_C had been talking about incorporating bodybuilding and DC style traing into it. So I enlisted his services to help me set it up (read, I pestered him with questions). Anyway so, I’ve added my size back to my upperbody (and more) at a bit lower body weight.

Now I don’t know enough about how mrodocks template is now set up, but for the 5/3/1 on bench and overhead press day, I’ll follow up the main movement with 2 movements for the chest/shoulders/triceps. I’ve basically split it to a top range movement (primarily triceps) and a bottom/mid range movement (predominantly chest and shoulders). Here’s my original selection:

OH Press - CGBP (2-board) and dumbbell press (slight incline ~30 degrees)
Bench - Flat dumbbell press and high pin presses (this was going to be an extension type, but they are hell on my shoulders)

Here would be an example of the ramping on the DB press (with a top set of 80lb):
15 reps x 30lbs
12 x 50
8 x 60
2x 70 <— C_C mentioned this as an optional set. It’s basically a primer to get you ready for the heavier weight.
AMRAP x80 (try to get 8-15)

First, those reps are a bit arbitrary. The idea is to get some work in but don’t exhaust yourself on these sets prior to the top set. Secondly, there are lots of options here with how many sets you do to get to the top and some guys like to do 2 top sets.

The benefit for me has been with recovery. If I do DP Press with 4-5 sets where all are work sets, I end up with DOMs and muscle fatique for most of the week. Using a single top set (or rest-pause) I still get some DOMs, but it comes and goes more quickly. For example, my OH press night is Friday. I end the session with a bit of a pump (especially if I use the rest-pause) and muscle soreness beginning. Saturday some DOMs and muscle fatigue. Sunday, no noticeable fatigue/soreness . Monday fine. Tuesday Bench.

Then next time through be sure to beat your last performance either with reps or heavier weight.

In summary the idea is to use movements that will 1) cause hypertrophy since bigger muscles should get stronger faster; 2) recover as quickly as possible; and 3) select movements that should have a carry over to the bench.

My last point that I can think of, and this may be just me, but I find it easier to go all out on a single set than to go through 4-5 working sets.

I hope that made sense.
(mrodock it is shorter than War and Peace so I figured you wouldn’t mind the length)

mrodock · August 20, 2009, 9:33pm

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
novaeer wrote: