@fabiop, yeah DL is the same, trained to max and then back offs.
@Sutebun, new people to the program should start with the 3x week as I said earlier, leaves room for fun assistance days as well for those that are not yet 100% committed to the fact that the reason the Russians and Bulgarians are so good at weightlifting sports is because 99% of their training is in the competition format. (exaggerated for emphasis on the big 3 PL and big 2 Oly)
Sutebun I recommend doing a mock meet and finding your true [u]TRAINING MAXES[/u] The program is very big on training vs competition max. Say you do a meet next weekend and pull 777 but your biggest pull in training is 745. You still base your training off of 745. (random numbers for fun. We would all like a 777 pull). Part of the idea in the method is to get those crazy competition jumps the Bulgarians and Russians were able to achieve. I have said it before and will say it again Abejaev and Sheiko both have commented on lifters getting up to a 10%+ increase on lifts in competiton vs training. That is dreamy and obviously takes much training to achieve but is not unrealistic. People I know on this program consistently comment how say a 3rd attempt at a meet that is almost 30 lbs more than a training pr felt easier than that training pr itself. As Abejaev said, the human body either adapts or breaks.
[quote]Doh wrote:
What is Eric Talmant’s take on Bulgarian method? Since he’s an advocate of Sheiko (Russian?) I’d imagine it’s a bit different.[/quote]
Eric does not really publicly discuss his version of the Bulgarian method. I can say though that it is very personalized to the lifter in every aspect. (frequency of certain lifts, usage of tweaked variations, drop set percentages, ect)[/quote]
Edit, Id also like to point out that Talmant is still incredibly pro Sheiko. He has all of his lifters train using different Sheiko templates before he moves them to the Bulgarian method (if ever). Sheiko’s style of training perfects your technique. A bid flaw of the Bulgarian method is the “make or break” mentality. Abejaev believed you were either built for weightlifting or were not. Your body adapts or breaks. Therefore if your technique is not 90% + you can risk injury working up to such weights so frequently every week. (picked random numbers as of course you cannot really assign a number as to where your technique level would have to be at)
Therefore, if you are someone who tends to come forward a lot on the deadlift, or let the bar push out from their shins during the intial lift, hitch a low, horrible lock out. or butt lifts a lot on bench, chest sinks too much ect, knees cave in to much on squat, mobility issues with depth, you should probably do a few months - year on Sheiko to get your form together.
Hey everyone sorry for the absence. I’ve contemplated what modifications I want to make with the programme and pretty much have roughly 80% finished. My only dilemma are the back off sets in terms of reps and sets. It seems there isn’t a unanimous decision in regards to this and it’s a very crucial aspect of the Bulgarian methodology.
[quote]Doh wrote:
C4G I started a log here, would definitely appreciate if you drop by with some knowledge bomb.
Good log man. I’ll certainly be following and drawing ideas.
Recently I read an old article by CT(I can’t post the link because of the stupid rule of no external links) in which he suggested a good loading parameter
Sets 1-3: Warm Up with 60% or less of your comp max/PR
Sets 4-7: Work up to daily max
Sets 8-10: Daily Max-40 lbs for 3 reps
Sets 11-12: Daily Max-25 for 2 reps
He also provided a sample programme but stated you can customize it to your needs, which is what I’ll do.
Question for C4G.
Do you every do a deload and if so when/how often?
Whats your opinion on deload?
My setup for a deload looks something like this:
Deload
Every three or four weeks, training will be reduced for that week. Accessory work as normal.
Day 1 - Front Squats and Bench Press: no back off sets
Day 2 - Squats: no back off sets, Deads as normal
Day 3 - Front Squats: 3x70%x3, CGBP no back off sets
Day 4 - Squats: 3x70%x3, Deads as normal
Day 5 - Front Squats: 3x70%x3, Bench: 3x70%x3
Day 6 - Squats: 3x70%x3, Deads as normal
Bit of an update, I haven’t been able to begin yet due to a strained quadratus lumborum (warming up of all things) so I am currently hoping to start in around 3-4 weeks time when I’ve returned to full squatting and deadlifting. I am thinking of keeping a log on here as well.
Just one question, has anyone here trained like this with a low bar (but not overly wide) squat? Any thoughts? I am not really concerned whether people believe, in theory, it will work or not (I plan to experiment regardless) but some experience would be interesting.
Thanks
[quote]henilito wrote:
Question for C4G.
Do you every do a deload and if so when/how often?
Whats your opinion on deload?
[/quote]
Great question.
I do believe deloads can be useful in certain case scenarios. However, I rarely use them, nor do people I train with use them much. Example of when someone would usually deload= week after a meet, yet the group I train with actually sometimes hits the biggest gym PRs that week after the meet.
Frankly, with this method your CNS is forced to adapt or break to the stress. Therefore I do not really feel a deload is necessary. After running the program successfully for a few months your body will not require deloads IMO.
That being said, the closest thing our lifters really do to a deload is scratch the back off sets for that week. Very similar to the idea you posted. So basically If I want to “deload” I will still squat w.e. x week but only work up to that top set single, then its off to bench, ect.
[quote]halcj wrote:
Bit of an update, I haven’t been able to begin yet due to a strained quadratus lumborum (warming up of all things) so I am currently hoping to start in around 3-4 weeks time when I’ve returned to full squatting and deadlifting. I am thinking of keeping a log on here as well.
Just one question, has anyone here trained like this with a low bar (but not overly wide) squat? Any thoughts? I am not really concerned whether people believe, in theory, it will work or not (I plan to experiment regardless) but some experience would be interesting.
Thanks[/quote]
GL with rehab, stay healthy. In regards to low bar, absolutely. 2 of our lifters currently use a low bar position in the squat. I personally use a more medium position, closer to high bar then anything, but a low bar should not give you any problems as long as your back is up to par where it needs to be.
[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
For everyone else wanting to ask questions about Bulgarian training, either start your own damn thread and/or log instead of hijacking mine.
[/quote]
I would hope you’re joking, but I bet you aren’t.
There’s a ton of very helpful info in here in regards to adopting a bulgarian system to powerlifting. It would make zero sense to start another thread discussing the same thing.
[quote]Doh wrote:
C4G I started a log here, would definitely appreciate if you drop by with some knowledge bomb.
Good log man. I’ll certainly be following and drawing ideas.
Recently I read an old article by CT(I can’t post the link because of the stupid rule of no external links) in which he suggested a good loading parameter
Sets 1-3: Warm Up with 60% or less of your comp max/PR
Sets 4-7: Work up to daily max
Sets 8-10: Daily Max-40 lbs for 3 reps
Sets 11-12: Daily Max-25 for 2 reps
He also provided a sample programme but stated you can customize it to your needs, which is what I’ll do.[/quote]
Hey sorry, looked over this earlier, can you link the article, I love to read info in regards to strength training.
About the structure. It seems very similar to what I do in the sense of ramping up to the top set. I just really mess around with reps, and even sometimes for squat will pause in the hole until I get to about 80%. Back off set wise I do it more by % as in 90% and 95% lifts. I think that -40 and -25 could definitely work at first but both numbers tend to be more than the 90/95 and eventually when you are at a certain number of days of squat/bench/pull it might wear you out a little more. Even though it only changes by like 10ish pounds.
Hope that helped. Remember I am still experimenting myself so truly there is no perfect way to do this yet.
[quote]DmitryKlokovFan wrote:
For everyone else wanting to ask questions about Bulgarian training, either start your own damn thread and/or log instead of hijacking mine.
[/quote]
I would hope you’re joking, but I bet you aren’t.
There’s a ton of very helpful info in here in regards to adopting a bulgarian system to powerlifting. It would make zero sense to start another thread discussing the same thing.[/quote]
To be honest I really think we should have stickies for some major training programs (5/3/1, Sheiko, Conjugate, Bulgarian, Smolov, etc.) to allow research and continued discussion. Failing that, this seems to be working well, it would be a shame to end the thread here. Great information all round - very few PL forums have multiple lifters with Bulgarian method experience.
[quote]Curls4Girls wrote:
Also, if anyone wants me to look at there logs or w.e. post a link up and ill check it out, been stopping by Doh’s every now and then.
GL with training all.
C4G[/quote]
If you have the time, could you write out a sample first week with specifics including assistance to get an old bastard like me started? Or maybe a link to a good starting place if one exists? I’ve read through the thread and feel like I have an idea of what week one would look like, but a more specific week one would sure be nice to see, again, if you have the time. I don’t have a great handle on the amount of assistance back work needed, like rows and chins/pullups and such. Thanks in advance.
Finished up with some light BW work(Chins and GHR) and a few minutes on the inversion table and mobility work.
[/quote]
I think the way you ramped up was fine, and the back-off sets were a good percentage. Personally though, I would cut the reps to singles starting at 80 or 90. I think its fine to do x2 or x3 80% and under but I definitely think by the time you are over 85% you should have your mind set on a competition single. Then once you reach your top set you can play more with x2 or x3 reps with your back-off sets. food for thought. Looked good though, very similar to how I load.
@C4G: what are your current numbers for the big 3 and what do you hit on most days? I’m curious as you are not a beginner like the majority of people attracted to this style of lifting.
Finished up with some light BW work(Chins and GHR) and a few minutes on the inversion table and mobility work.
[/quote]
I think the way you ramped up was fine, and the back-off sets were a good percentage. Personally though, I would cut the reps to singles starting at 80 or 90. I think its fine to do x2 or x3 80% and under but I definitely think by the time you are over 85% you should have your mind set on a competition single. Then once you reach your top set you can play more with x2 or x3 reps with your back-off sets. food for thought. Looked good though, very similar to how I load.
C4G
[/quote]
Thanks for your insight. I started off pretty conservatively given that I got weaker towards the end of my run with Sheiko. I’m doing DLs and board presses today but doing back off sets like you suggested.