My First Cycle

Pharma / TRT
1

Ok… firstly I’d like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx

2

[quote]bassk wrote:

Ok… firstly id like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx[/quote]

Hey bassk, many steroids will give you androgenic side effects that will cause you to lose your hair, which I can see is a primary concern with you. You can either take the chance and see what happens, or you can not use steroids.

A usual first cycle will consist of 500mg of test per week. This can easily give you MPB if you are predisposed to the issue. I currently do not show any signs of balding whatsoever, but both my father and my mother’s father have/had a pretty gnarly receding hairline, but I am still going to take the risk.

If I begin to bald, I will try some meds and products to stop it, but if it doesn’t, oh well. I can just keep my hair short.

As for extra hair, you can always bodywax. I am not ashamed to say I get bodywaxes, and I love how I look after them.

And prostate enlargement, I am not sure about. One of the other members might wanna chime in.

3

[quote]bassk wrote:

Ok… firstly id like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx[/quote]

First of all, I’m not going to start a discussion about whether you’re ready… because I’m kinda the posterchild for starting AAS when others feel I’m not ready.

Anyway,

Your growth plates might not be fused but it doesn’t really matter too much because from what I’ve read, the closure of growth plates is caused by the excess estrogen post cycle, which can be controlled (and therefore prevented) by a proper PCT.

I experienced some hair loss at 18 y/o from a superdrol cycle. It’s not noticeable, but at the time I freaked out. So, it is a risk.

To be honest you need to bump your calories up to 4000, maybe a little more. I’m shooting for 4500-5000 a day, but I’m taller and am trying to throw on a shit-ton of mass.

Your protein is still too low. 1.5 times body weight is a good number to shoot for, and if you’re on AAS, I’d say even more. Try bumping it to 250-300 grams/day.

You aren’t too much ‘bigger’ relatively speaking, than me, and I’d say fuck controlling your fat intake as long as you aren’t eating mcdonald’s. Eat healthy food but don’t be afraid to throw down a grilled burger or eggs, and skip the skim milk, go for 2% or vitamin d.

I wouldn’t focus too much on just your arms… train your whole body and your arms will catch up. Don’t be one of the guys that does bench and curls all day.

You mentioned looking into GH and IGF… IMO looking is fine but I wouldn’t get too overboard too soon. I’m considering throwing in a bit of GHRP 6 for appetite into my first cycle, so just be careful.

I hope I’m not coming off as a know-it-all, I’m on my first cycle myself, but I have a fair bit of research under my belt.

Hopefully some vets can chime in and give you more info.

Oh, 2 more things.

Glad to see you ditched the dbol only idea.

Use lbs, not stone, because speaking for myself, I have no idea WTF a stone is. lol.

4

Oh, and on superdrol, my prostate was tight as hell.

I beleive there are some OTC supps that can ease this, but it’s deff. a side effect of AAS… but should subside post cycle

5

[quote]kayveeay wrote:
bassk wrote:

Ok… firstly id like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx

First of all, I’m not going to start a discussion about whether you’re ready… because I’m kinda the posterchild for starting AAS when others feel I’m not ready.

Anyway,

Your growth plates might not be fused but it doesn’t really matter too much because from what I’ve read, the closure of growth plates is caused by the excess estrogen post cycle, which can be controlled (and therefore prevented) by a proper PCT.

I experienced some hair loss at 18 y/o from a superdrol cycle. It’s not noticeable, but at the time I freaked out. So, it is a risk.

To be honest you need to bump your calories up to 4000, maybe a little more. I’m shooting for 4500-5000 a day, but I’m taller and am trying to throw on a shit-ton of mass.

Your protein is still too low. 1.5 times body weight is a good number to shoot for, and if you’re on AAS, I’d say even more. Try bumping it to 250-300 grams/day.

You aren’t too much ‘bigger’ relatively speaking, than me, and I’d say fuck controlling your fat intake as long as you aren’t eating mcdonald’s. Eat healthy food but don’t be afraid to throw down a grilled burger or eggs, and skip the skim milk, go for 2% or vitamin d.

I wouldn’t focus too much on just your arms… train your whole body and your arms will catch up. Don’t be one of the guys that does bench and curls all day.

You mentioned looking into GH and IGF… IMO looking is fine but I wouldn’t get too overboard too soon. I’m considering throwing in a bit of GHRP 6 for appetite into my first cycle, so just be careful.

I hope I’m not coming off as a know-it-all, I’m on my first cycle myself, but I have a fair bit of research under my belt.

Hopefully some vets can chime in and give you more info.

Oh, 2 more things.

Glad to see you ditched the dbol only idea.

Use lbs, not stone, because speaking for myself, I have no idea WTF a stone is. lol.
[/quote]

KVA - please, mate.

Why 4000? Because that is what works for you? 4000kcals for a 150lb 5’5" guy will not have the same effect as it does on you - please stick to what little you know, and you will find i do not get on your back as much…

I DO have issue with anyone (including myself) giving haphazard info. There are methods to calcualting caloric intake etc etc… have you worked out his BMR then? No. thought not. Same goes for ‘prescribing’ 300 grams of protein! That is 2g/lb BW! WTF?

Please enlighten us as to your extensive knowledge on prostate hypertrophy. You are 18 kid, if you have had prostate issues now, you wont see 30.

AND LET THE GUY USE STONE IF HE LIKES! (14lbs)

I really could go on picking this apart… but this isnt my desire here.

This is really trying to be not a flame, but a polite caution. It isnt on mate. Really, it is not. You are not in the position to give advice, and sometimes it is OK - but often it is BS…

JJ

OP: gotta go out, i will post later mate :wink:

6

[quote] JJ wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
bassk wrote:

Ok… firstly id like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx

First of all, I’m not going to start a discussion about whether you’re ready… because I’m kinda the posterchild for starting AAS when others feel I’m not ready.

Anyway,

Your growth plates might not be fused but it doesn’t really matter too much because from what I’ve read, the closure of growth plates is caused by the excess estrogen post cycle, which can be controlled (and therefore prevented) by a proper PCT.

I experienced some hair loss at 18 y/o from a superdrol cycle. It’s not noticeable, but at the time I freaked out. So, it is a risk.

To be honest you need to bump your calories up to 4000, maybe a little more. I’m shooting for 4500-5000 a day, but I’m taller and am trying to throw on a shit-ton of mass.

Your protein is still too low. 1.5 times body weight is a good number to shoot for, and if you’re on AAS, I’d say even more. Try bumping it to 250-300 grams/day.

You aren’t too much ‘bigger’ relatively speaking, than me, and I’d say fuck controlling your fat intake as long as you aren’t eating mcdonald’s. Eat healthy food but don’t be afraid to throw down a grilled burger or eggs, and skip the skim milk, go for 2% or vitamin d.

I wouldn’t focus too much on just your arms… train your whole body and your arms will catch up. Don’t be one of the guys that does bench and curls all day.

You mentioned looking into GH and IGF… IMO looking is fine but I wouldn’t get too overboard too soon. I’m considering throwing in a bit of GHRP 6 for appetite into my first cycle, so just be careful.

I hope I’m not coming off as a know-it-all, I’m on my first cycle myself, but I have a fair bit of research under my belt.

Hopefully some vets can chime in and give you more info.

Oh, 2 more things.

Glad to see you ditched the dbol only idea.

Use lbs, not stone, because speaking for myself, I have no idea WTF a stone is. lol.

KVA - please, mate.

Why 4000? Because that is what works for you? 4000kcals for a 150lb 5’5" guy will not have the same effect as it does on you - please stick to what little you know, and you will find i do not get on your back as much…

I DO have issue with anyone (including myself) giving haphazard info. There are methods to calcualting caloric intake etc etc… have you worked out his BMR then? No. thought not. Same goes for ‘prescribing’ 300 grams of protein! That is 2g/lb BW! WTF?

Please enlighten us as to your extensive knowledge on prostate hypertrophy. You are 18 kid, if you have had prostate issues now, you wont see 30.

AND LET THE GUY USE STONE IF HE LIKES! (14lbs)

I really could go on picking this apart… but this isnt my desire here.

This is really trying to be not a flame, but a polite caution. It isnt on mate. Really, it is not. You are not in the position to give advice, and sometimes it is OK - but often it is BS…

JJ

OP: gotta go out, i will post later mate ;)[/quote]

Hey, I actually am a firm believer in high protein. I mean really high. I’ve gone up to 600 grams in a day sometimes. Usually I stick between 400 - 500 though. Granted 230 is my very lean weight and 260+ is my heavier weight I’ve reached, so I guess it’s all relative. Love the results on 2g/lb BW in protein per day is though.

As for KVA, I agree with JJ. Let the man use stone. I’m allowed to use my inches, feet, lbs, fahrenheit and whatnot, so it’s all fair game.

7

Welcome.

8

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
JJ wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
bassk wrote:

Ok… firstly id like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx

First of all, I’m not going to start a discussion about whether you’re ready… because I’m kinda the posterchild for starting AAS when others feel I’m not ready.

Anyway,

Your growth plates might not be fused but it doesn’t really matter too much because from what I’ve read, the closure of growth plates is caused by the excess estrogen post cycle, which can be controlled (and therefore prevented) by a proper PCT.

I experienced some hair loss at 18 y/o from a superdrol cycle. It’s not noticeable, but at the time I freaked out. So, it is a risk.

To be honest you need to bump your calories up to 4000, maybe a little more. I’m shooting for 4500-5000 a day, but I’m taller and am trying to throw on a shit-ton of mass.

Your protein is still too low. 1.5 times body weight is a good number to shoot for, and if you’re on AAS, I’d say even more. Try bumping it to 250-300 grams/day.

You aren’t too much ‘bigger’ relatively speaking, than me, and I’d say fuck controlling your fat intake as long as you aren’t eating mcdonald’s. Eat healthy food but don’t be afraid to throw down a grilled burger or eggs, and skip the skim milk, go for 2% or vitamin d.

I wouldn’t focus too much on just your arms… train your whole body and your arms will catch up. Don’t be one of the guys that does bench and curls all day.

You mentioned looking into GH and IGF… IMO looking is fine but I wouldn’t get too overboard too soon. I’m considering throwing in a bit of GHRP 6 for appetite into my first cycle, so just be careful.

I hope I’m not coming off as a know-it-all, I’m on my first cycle myself, but I have a fair bit of research under my belt.

Hopefully some vets can chime in and give you more info.

Oh, 2 more things.

Glad to see you ditched the dbol only idea.

Use lbs, not stone, because speaking for myself, I have no idea WTF a stone is. lol.

KVA - please, mate.

Why 4000? Because that is what works for you? 4000kcals for a 150lb 5’5" guy will not have the same effect as it does on you - please stick to what little you know, and you will find i do not get on your back as much…

I DO have issue with anyone (including myself) giving haphazard info. There are methods to calcualting caloric intake etc etc… have you worked out his BMR then? No. thought not. Same goes for ‘prescribing’ 300 grams of protein! That is 2g/lb BW! WTF?

Please enlighten us as to your extensive knowledge on prostate hypertrophy. You are 18 kid, if you have had prostate issues now, you wont see 30.

AND LET THE GUY USE STONE IF HE LIKES! (14lbs)

I really could go on picking this apart… but this isnt my desire here.

This is really trying to be not a flame, but a polite caution. It isnt on mate. Really, it is not. You are not in the position to give advice, and sometimes it is OK - but often it is BS…

JJ

OP: gotta go out, i will post later mate :wink:

Hey, I actually am a firm believer in high protein. I mean really high. I’ve gone up to 600 grams in a day sometimes. Usually I stick between 400 - 500 though. Granted 230 is my very lean weight and 260+ is my heavier weight I’ve reached, so I guess it’s all relative. Love the results on 2g/lb BW in protein per day is though.

As for KVA, I agree with JJ. Let the man use stone. I’m allowed to use my inches, feet, lbs, fahrenheit and whatnot, so it’s all fair game.[/quote]

I use alot of protein too… but i have a decent amount of muscle and 10 years of training. so you you. This guy is NOT in the same situation.

I absolutely do not condone blind recommendations for exercise or food - just because it works for you.

9

[quote] JJ wrote:
BestDaddyEver wrote:
JJ wrote:
kayveeay wrote:
bassk wrote:

Ok… firstly id like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx

First of all, I’m not going to start a discussion about whether you’re ready… because I’m kinda the posterchild for starting AAS when others feel I’m not ready.

Anyway,

Your growth plates might not be fused but it doesn’t really matter too much because from what I’ve read, the closure of growth plates is caused by the excess estrogen post cycle, which can be controlled (and therefore prevented) by a proper PCT.

I experienced some hair loss at 18 y/o from a superdrol cycle. It’s not noticeable, but at the time I freaked out. So, it is a risk.

To be honest you need to bump your calories up to 4000, maybe a little more. I’m shooting for 4500-5000 a day, but I’m taller and am trying to throw on a shit-ton of mass.

Your protein is still too low. 1.5 times body weight is a good number to shoot for, and if you’re on AAS, I’d say even more. Try bumping it to 250-300 grams/day.

You aren’t too much ‘bigger’ relatively speaking, than me, and I’d say fuck controlling your fat intake as long as you aren’t eating mcdonald’s. Eat healthy food but don’t be afraid to throw down a grilled burger or eggs, and skip the skim milk, go for 2% or vitamin d.

I wouldn’t focus too much on just your arms… train your whole body and your arms will catch up. Don’t be one of the guys that does bench and curls all day.

You mentioned looking into GH and IGF… IMO looking is fine but I wouldn’t get too overboard too soon. I’m considering throwing in a bit of GHRP 6 for appetite into my first cycle, so just be careful.

I hope I’m not coming off as a know-it-all, I’m on my first cycle myself, but I have a fair bit of research under my belt.

Hopefully some vets can chime in and give you more info.

Oh, 2 more things.

Glad to see you ditched the dbol only idea.

Use lbs, not stone, because speaking for myself, I have no idea WTF a stone is. lol.

KVA - please, mate.

Why 4000? Because that is what works for you? 4000kcals for a 150lb 5’5" guy will not have the same effect as it does on you - please stick to what little you know, and you will find i do not get on your back as much…

I DO have issue with anyone (including myself) giving haphazard info. There are methods to calcualting caloric intake etc etc… have you worked out his BMR then? No. thought not. Same goes for ‘prescribing’ 300 grams of protein! That is 2g/lb BW! WTF?

Please enlighten us as to your extensive knowledge on prostate hypertrophy. You are 18 kid, if you have had prostate issues now, you wont see 30.

AND LET THE GUY USE STONE IF HE LIKES! (14lbs)

I really could go on picking this apart… but this isnt my desire here.

This is really trying to be not a flame, but a polite caution. It isnt on mate. Really, it is not. You are not in the position to give advice, and sometimes it is OK - but often it is BS…

JJ

OP: gotta go out, i will post later mate :wink:

Hey, I actually am a firm believer in high protein. I mean really high. I’ve gone up to 600 grams in a day sometimes. Usually I stick between 400 - 500 though. Granted 230 is my very lean weight and 260+ is my heavier weight I’ve reached, so I guess it’s all relative. Love the results on 2g/lb BW in protein per day is though.

As for KVA, I agree with JJ. Let the man use stone. I’m allowed to use my inches, feet, lbs, fahrenheit and whatnot, so it’s all fair game.

I use alot of protein too… but i have a decent amount of muscle and 10 years of training. so you you. This guy is NOT in the same situation.

I absolutely do not condone blind recommendations for exercise or food - just because it works for you.[/quote]

just to add im not sure its really working out for KVA judging from his thread.

10

[quote]bassk wrote:
Ok… firstly I’d like to thank JJ for his constructive critisism/help in my last (and first) post, rather than just flaming which I see alot of.

so… This is the second topic i have posted and have decided to make my first cycle a test one. I will research the best/safe dose but if anyone can help it would be great.

My main concerns regarding steroid use (apart from the well known) are possible sides such as MPB,additional hair growth and prostate enlargement. Also the injecting! Anyway…

My Stats:

I am 22, and have been weight training for 5 years. I weight 70kg, ~150lb and stand at 5’5". I have been strength training for the past 2 years and after recently reaching my 100kg bench press target Iv decided to train for appearance - Over the next few years Im looking to put on as much weight as possible then burn down and maintain it (My primary concern is my arms).

Each day I consume Approximately:

3000cal…calories
300g…carbs
200g…protein
50g-70g…fat

The calories and protein were increased from an average of 2500cal and 80g. I eat 5 meals a day aswell as 3 shakes. I supplement with creatine, L-glute and amino acids. and A year ago I tried the prohormones from AMS 1-androsterone/4-androsterone and Arom-X. I put on a stone in weight and maintained 8lb and a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted, but i have learnt quite a bit since then.

I train a 6 day split (heavy sets till failure - with the odd burn out):

Chest
Shoulders & Traps
Back
Tris
Bis
Legs

I dont know my bodyfat percentage, have tried those electronic ones but no real answer.

I am trying to find the safest way to acheive my above goals. Aswell as AAS i have looked into and am considering HGH/IGF-1. I was under the illusion that this could also increase my height but as i am 22 it is most likely my growth plates have fused by now. It is still something i want to do.

I dont know if i have the male pattern baldness gene but id rather not take any risks as i thought the effects are only more profound when you do have the gene. I do have a receding hairline if that is anything to do with it?

Thanx[/quote]

The effects of baldness do NOT OCCUR in those who do not have the gene - if you are going bald - they will aggrivate that. Easy.

Can i just check that you ARE a male? Just the height, weight and the fact you dont want to grow any extra hair… a little weird?

Anyway… (i personally am about to make a sweeping judgement) i do honestly suspect that you are not in great shape, you do not train effectively, and are looking for help rather than progression.

AAS are NOT the answer, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to use steroids and not have sides… it AINT happening, so either you re-assess, or just deal with the potential sides.

I know you have trained a while, but i am almost hesitant to say, at 5’5" and 140lbs, etc… you are NEVER going to be what i assume you see as the perfect specimen.
I know this is harsh, but i dont want you to take these drugs with delusions of grandeur(sp?).

EDIT: I was gonna help you make a cycle - but i am afraid i have read the details of your post, and have seen some lagre issues matey…

i saw this.

“…a little gyno. I also think i increased the amount of fine hair on my arms which is unwanted…”

Weird… whats wrong with hair on your arms?!

And you have gyno?

And you have ACTUALLY been lifting for 2 years?

And you have JUST STARTED to eat more than 80g of protein a day?

Sorry mate, that is a fail in my eyes… convince me you need AAS to make gains.

JJ

11

JJ summed everything up really well.

Like I’ve said before. Steroids are iceing on the cake, they are not the magic push forward.

12

lol yeh firstly, I am a male.
Ive always been short with an athletic appearance? - broad, muscley(sp?) but not much bodyfat.

I dont have much of a hairy body - and i like it that way… I see some really hairy people at the gym tho, and am thankful thats not me. If i did get excessive hair growth i would definetaly have to wax, I just thought a prevention might be easier than treatment.

Thats why i looked into finasteride because reducing conversion to DHT would help this as well as possible prostate issues - if im right?

I understand your concerns as to whether someone is ready or not to use steroids, but for myself il have to stop ya there. Im not one that beleives the use of AAS would transform my body, but rather just help my training.

To be honest, i am healthy and currently very satisfied with how my body is. Im a bit of a perfectionist however which is why im striving to make it better. I just dont want to f*** up and do any damage in the process.

To address the above issues:

Hair:
I thought if a 4week cycle of prohormones were strong enough too make a noticable increase in hair production, then a 12 week cycle of a more potent androgen (test) would turn me into a gorilla, im assuming some people are more prone to some of these sides than others…

Gyno:
Well i was being a bit over self-concious with this. After the prohormone cycle, i did notice a very slight puffiness behind my nipples, not necessarily ‘gyno’ but again, using test would be stronger than a prohormone, and i definately do not want any breast growth! On the other hand however i doubt AMS’s Arom-X (an anti estrogen which is what i used) can compare to arimidex/letro and nolva/clomid.

Lifting:
I have been lifting for 5 years.
For the first three years i was also San Shou (kickboxing) training and JKD training. I competed in San Shou - semi contact and full contact in BCCMA. So the training for this was more endurance than strictly stregnth.

I stopped martial arts training two years ago which allowed me to concentrate on stregnth training. After reaching my goal in the gym i have decided i have little use for the stregnth and more appreciate the appearance ive acheived from lifting.

and the diet: wasnt changed recently, i calculated (what i thought) was necessary to gain weight and changed my diet a year ago (just before my cycle of prohormones). But in doing that ive swapped my trim waist for a pot belly, lol… So id find it hard to eat more, however i could probably increase my protein?

So… recently, i have’nt hit a wall in my training as such, but i have noticed that my growths aren’t nearly as much as they were. despite frequently changing training routines/ increasing calories and protein/ use of supplements etc…

If after reading this you still think im not ready, please give your reasons to try convince me… I hoping ya dont though…

13

i am tired… do it or dont - upto you, seems to be ready to me.

so what is the question?

14

I guess i just wanted to know if using finasteride @ 2mg ED would be useful to take on cycle.

Most of my concerns have been addressed now so Im goin to use the following if theres nothing wrong witgh it:

BASIC
W 1-4 DBol 10mg 3x/D
W 1-10 Test Enth 100-125mg E3D
W 1-10 0.125g Letrozole ED (Week 11 0.125g EOD)
W 11-14 HCG 500 iu EOD

PCT
W 11-12 Nolva 20mg 2x/D
W 13-15 Nolva 20mg/D
W 16-20 Tribulus

I will be using a lower dose of between 100-125mg of Test Enth E3D which equates to 230-290mg per week.

By starting off whith a low dose cycle i could asses the side effects and could always increase the dosage in future cycles…

15

[quote]bassk wrote:
I guess i just wanted to know if using finasteride @ 2mg ED would be useful to take on cycle.

Most of my concerns have been addressed now so Im goin to use the following if theres nothing wrong witgh it:

BASIC
W 1-4 DBol 10mg 3x/D
W 1-10 Test Enth 100-125mg E3D
W 1-10 0.125g Letrozole ED (Week 11 0.125g EOD)
W 11-14 HCG 500 iu EOD

PCT
W 11-12 Nolva 20mg 2x/D
W 13-15 Nolva 20mg/D
W 16-20 Tribulus

I will be using a lower dose of between 100-125mg of Test Enth E3D which equates to 230-290mg per week.

By starting off whith a low dose cycle i could asses the side effects and could always increase the dosage in future cycles… [/quote]

Although u should keep HCG on hand (not mixed) if problems pop up, with that dose you shouldent see any shrinkage or other sides IMO. No reason to use it unless you need it right? Letro is up to you but i think unnecessary for the price. I would recommend bumping the test to 500mg/week and double what u eat. Then do a stasis taper or a stasis+serm combo. my .02

16

So if by the end of this cycle i dont notice ANY testicular shrinkage, does that mean i need not use the HCG at all? or should i use a shot or two just incase…

I know letro is not good for first timers and price etc… The only reason i want to use letro over arimidex etc is that i already have plenty of it…

17

No, HCG will make your own balls suppress you - so dont just do it anyway.

You will be shut down from 2-300mg a week of test, and you wont need that much hcg IME.

Maybe just 250iu 2-3x a week - i like this cycle though.

Well done matey-boy.

JJ

18

[quote] JJ wrote:
No, HCG will make your own balls suppress you - so dont just do it anyway.

You will be shut down from 2-300mg a week of test, and you wont need that much hcg IME.

Maybe just 250iu 2-3x a week - i like this cycle though.

Well done matey-boy.

JJ[/quote]

I agree JJ, it looks sensible and he looks like he did his homework.

19

The HCG will definitely ‘plump’ your nuts back up. At the dose that JJ said is perfect for a newer guy. Too much more can easily aromatize to estro and create gyno sides, so keep some nolva handy. You probably will not have to start the HCG until week 5 or so, just whenever you notice the ‘boys’ getting a lil smaller.

20

[quote]Alex-P wrote:
JJ summed everything up really well.

Like I’ve said before. Steroids are iceing on the cake, they are not the magic push forward.

[/quote]

Yes.