DH:
I just love seeing an annotated post on a forum.
Thanks for all of your insight.
egc
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Zdrax,
That’s a good question. Now that you’ve adapted well to the diet, you can certainly push the CHO up to about 40-50g IFF (If and only if) you make sure that it comes from vegetable sources that are allowable on the AD. No corn etc… A Pepsi would screw things up for hours, even though technically you came in under 50g.
This is a very individual thing. Some cannot convert over unless they get 10-20g per day as a maximum, and some even after they adapt fully. That seems to be a minority though. Also, diets that incorporate more frequent CHO loads such as the NHE, must compensate by getting your levels down a bit more rapidly than the AD’s 5/2 cycle demands. We’ve got longer to empty the tank.
For you guys who’ve been on this for 4-6 months or longer, feel free to do some intelligent experimentation and watch the mirror and the weight bar like a hawk. You are now learning “you”. That will be very empowering in your future quest for “masshood” ;-).
I will say that I think 50 is probably the upper limit. The increase needs to be ONLY for veggies OR a little post workout CHO.
***And on the PW CHO, I still prefer to force the body to get it’s glycogen stores back up without help from me. It keeps the fat burning machinery going full out. So the PW CHO is really for the ectomorph who wants to gain muscle and maintain fat levels.
***For those wanting to gain muscle and lean out, or who have trouble staying lean, nix the PW CHO and go with my previously mentioned protein/cream/olive oil shake. Taking whey protein (concentrate, isolate, or hydrolysate it doesn’t matter) as a pre-workout or even during workout drink with very little to no fat is best. IF you use concentrate then give it about 45-60 minutes to get into your system. Take it a while before the workout. Isolate is a bit faster, and hydrolysate can be taken very close to the workout. Just adjust depending on your source. Then about an hour after your workout, take the combo shake. I like 15g of fat or so from heavy cream and about 40-50g protein.
best,
DH
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JPEN J Parenter Enteral Nutr. 1989 Jul-Aug;13(4):382-6. Effect of whey proteins, their oligopeptide hydrolysates and free amino acid mixtures on growth and nitrogen retention in fed and starved rats. Poullain MG, Cezard JP, Roger L, Mendy F.
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Eur J Nutr. 2000 Dec;39(6):237-43. Protein hydrolysate vs free amino acid-based diets on the nutritional recovery of the starved rat. Boza JJ, Moennoz D, Vuichoud J, Jarret AR, Gaudard-de-Weck D, Ballevre O.
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Gut. 1985 Jul;26(7):694-9. Relative nutritional value of whole protein, hydrolysed protein and free amino acids in man. Moriarty KJ, Hegarty JE, Fairclough PD, Kelly MJ, Clark ML, Dawson AM.
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Gut. 1982 Aug;23(8):670-4. Comparison of plasma and intraluminal amino acid profiles in man after meals containing a protein hydrolysate and equivalent amino acid mixture. Hegarty JE, Fairclough PD, Moriarty KJ, Clark ML, Kelly MJ, Dawson AM.
Another issue is that BCAA supplements are in the form of free-form amino acids, as opposed to a whole protein source. Supplement companies often claim that free-form amino acids are absorbed in greater quantity, more effectively, and more quickly, but this is contrary to the scientific evidence. In general, studies indicate that protein hydrolysates are utilized most effectively, followed by whole proteins, followed by free form amino acids. Intestinal transporters exist for both peptides and free amino acids, and peptides are absorbed more rapidly [34]. Peptides that are not absorbed via a transporter can be rapidly broken down enzymatically. Although not the best model for human athletes, studies in food-deprived rats being refed consistently find that whey protein hydrolysate leads to much higher degrees of weight gain and nitrogen retention than free form amino acids, with one study indicating that whole protein is in the middle in terms of effectiveness [35-36]. Comparative studies have also been done in humans. In healthy subjects, whole protein, protein hydrolysate, and free amino acids all resulted in similar nitrogen balance [37]. Another study in healthy humans found that a protein hydrolysate was absorbed equally as rapidly as free form aminos [38]. Ideally, a study more specific to the conditions in question would be available, but this research indicates that fast-digesting proteins could be just as or more effective than free form amino acids for use before or during exercise.
zdrax wrote:
Quick question for ya Disc. I know there isn’t much literature out there regarding CHO maximums. Lately I’ve been doing some research on other cyclical low-carb style diets. I’ve seen some authors advocating as low as 15 - 20g of CHO per day, and others letting individuals go as high as 50g.
Now assuming we’re not counting grams of fiber (so our “net” carb total, as I can’t think of a better term ATM), do you still think the 30g is what we should stick to? I’ve considered pushing up to a Total Carb - Fiber total of 50g or so. I really miss eating veggies, and my nut intake tends to push that 30g limit. I’ve been rockin the AD for five or six weeks (still mastering the weekends - I’m getting there :)).
Long diatribe made short - whatdya think? 
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