I was talking with a naturopathic doctor friend of mine this weekend and he mentioned that the full feeling could be from too much psyllium ingestion. I was taking about 4-6 tablespoons of the stuff giving me at least 50g of fibre and drinking at least 4l water a day, closer to 6… but i think all that soluable fibre gets stuffed in there and can make a person feel full constantly. I’m toning it down to 2 tbs a day and will see how that goes…
Peteman
Thanks for the heads-up on the fiber. Just out of curiousity, what type of workout would you recommend for the initial entry phase? I was thinking something along the lines of Waterbury, especially since I respond well to low reps/set schemes. Thanks, -The Starkdog
Eat more, bro. This is only a caloric suggestion. Everyone is different and being a young active teen will enable you to handle more cals. No problems at all. And your age makes no difference. We are optimizing the body’s output and creating a favorable ratios of not only T, but also GH, insulin, and glucagon, among many others. This is a far cry from ingesting exogenous synthetics. I wish I had this diet at your age. Dig in bro. You’ll be bigger and lean in no time.
Best,
DH
Lucky sucker!
[quote]Africa x wrote:
Hey guys,
I’m 16 and currently about 4 days into the diet. I’m in the matinence stage(obviously) and my matinence is around 2250-2700cals(my wieght is 150lbs) a day. Now I dont know if this is normal but I have never been so hungry in my life! I mean REALLY hungry, like eat-a-horse-hungry, but I dont want to go over my cal limit. As it is I already push it to 2700 each day. Is it normal to be so hungry? And do you guys think I can push my cal limit, or should I just stick to the cal limit and grin and bear it? I kinda feel like I’m depriving my body, but I don’t want to screw this up.
Thoughts?[/quote]
Been logging my body temp first thing in the AM ,
Day 1 - 97.2 (Carbup ended night before)
Day 2 - 96.6
Day 3 - 96.4
Day 4 - 96.6
Day 5 - 96.5
Day 6 - 97.8 (Started carbup 4 pm on Day 5)
Day 7 - 97.2 (Full day carbup on Day 6)
Day 8 - 96.6
I am feeling quite ok throughout the weeks and have been having pretty decent workouts. Need for sleep has gone up, even on weekdays I have difficulty getting up in the morning which was not the case before I started AD.
Have the others been observing their body temp? Do you see a similar pattern?
DH, do you think any changes are required.
Thanks
DD
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Well this post involves a few issues. Normal is assumed to be 98.6 but that is not usually the case. There is a range and the above number was an average. What you really needed was to see what your average daily was before you use AD. Then we could compare apples to apples. As it stands, I’d check your temp on Sat, Sun, and Mon when you should have plenty of CHO telling the body to optimize T3. Then compare this to the rest of the week. With the stored glycogen and the minimal daily intake, you should be fine with respect to Thyroid levels. Because we don’t know your measured average before the AD, then I’d go by strength levels and clothing fit. Many people make the mistake of assuming that all people are 98.6. Acutally I think it’s closer to 98.2 for an average and that has a range of probably +/- .5
Again, see how you do on the carb days and then compare this to the rest of the week.
But really if you are strong and getting visibly leaner, then you’re cool all the way around.
DH
dxbdude wrote:
Hello all,
I am on my 4th week of AD and so far everything is great. started taking my temp in the AM after waking up and found out that it hovers aroung 97.4-97.6. Now this is almost 1 degree less than the normal body temp. I am guessing this is due to metabolism going down. I am 174lbs and consuming between 2000-2500 cals with 55-60% fats, 50-55% protein and about 5% carbs. Also taking HOT-ROX(not the maximum strength one) everyday 2x2 caps.
Do I need to bump up my cals cause am still gaining strength in the gym but body temp stays at 97.5. Thanks,D
[/quote]
Whoops, guess I’d better just eat a big plate of crow. Sorry for throwing you off Africa X, just being overly cautious I guess. Good luck on the AD!
-CA
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Eat more, bro. This is only a caloric suggestion. Everyone is different and being a young active teen will enable you to handle more cals. No problems at all. And your age makes no difference. We are optimizing the body’s output and creating a favorable ratios of not only T, but also GH, insulin, and glucagon, among many others. This is a far cry from ingesting exogenous synthetics. I wish I had this diet at your age. Dig in bro. You’ll be bigger and lean in no time.
Best,
DH
Lucky sucker!
Africa x wrote:
Hey guys,
I’m 16 and currently about 4 days into the diet. I’m in the matinence stage(obviously) and my matinence is around 2250-2700cals(my wieght is 150lbs) a day. Now I dont know if this is normal but I have never been so hungry in my life! I mean REALLY hungry, like eat-a-horse-hungry, but I dont want to go over my cal limit. As it is I already push it to 2700 each day. Is it normal to be so hungry? And do you guys think I can push my cal limit, or should I just stick to the cal limit and grin and bear it? I kinda feel like I’m depriving my body, but I don’t want to screw this up.
Thoughts?
[/quote]
No worries there Charles, you were just concerned about me;). Thanks alot to both of you for clearing it up.
[quote]PtrDR wrote:
Training question guys: Since I am using the diet to loose fat and maybe gain a slight amount of muscle (if possible); which program would be more conducive on this diet? OVT or Advanced GVT?
thanks![/quote]
Anyone have an opinion on my question?
Well, I have been doing the T-Dog 2.0 for a couple of months now. Before that, I did the velocity diet. This sounds like a good change of pace, so I started today. I have lost 40+ pounds using the previous two diets (244 to 200), and kept muscle loss to a minimum.
Thanks everyone for a most excellent thread, and for all of the info. I’m wondering if I will crash sooner because I have already been on reduced carb intake with the velocity and t-dawg??
[quote]PtrDR wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Training question guys: Since I am using the diet to loose fat and maybe gain a slight amount of muscle (if possible); which program would be more conducive on this diet? OVT or Advanced GVT?
thanks!
Anyone have an opinion on my question?[/quote]
I’m not a big fan of “fat-loss” weightlifting programs. I would suggest training for max strength. But, then again, OVT is a good program, so I wouldnt worry too much. Personally, I think EDT, focusing on heavy lifts is the way to go.
Ok. Day#1
I like this diet. I have kept carbs low, and should end up with 30 by the end of the day. I prepped myself last night, making a shake with 2Tbsp of olive oil. Later, I had some cheese cubes and bacon. I have been keeping well hydrated, and fiber intake high. So far, everything seems fine. One strange note though, I have this really sweet taste in my mouth, even after consuming something salty, like bacon. Is this my body signaling the start of ketosis, or am I converting to fat burning faster than expected? Thanks- The Starkdog
I agree completely, IC. The best “fat loss” parameters are the functional/total hypertrophy ranges. Follow CW’s Set/Rep scheme and CT’s Locked and Loaded loading scheme also. Don’t ever think of training as “fat loss” focused. It’s a waste. Think of trying to add muscle and strength while cutting. Then you’ll keep and possibly add a bit of muscle. Focus on anabolism, not hedging/protecting your gains. Afterall, anabolism is the key to not only growth but leaning out, too. EDT is great. So is TBT, OVT, and any other growth focused plan. These 3 are just a couple of my favorites here on T-mag.
DH
[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Training question guys: Since I am using the diet to loose fat and maybe gain a slight amount of muscle (if possible); which program would be more conducive on this diet? OVT or Advanced GVT?
thanks!
Anyone have an opinion on my question?
I’m not a big fan of “fat-loss” weightlifting programs. I would suggest training for max strength. But, then again, OVT is a good program, so I wouldnt worry too much. Personally, I think EDT, focusing on heavy lifts is the way to go.
[/quote]
That’s not a huge fluctuation, overall. Don’t worry with it. Just watch your waist size, scale weight, and your strength levels. They are what matter.
You should make sure that you are getting iodine from something like a kelp supplement to feed your thyroid. Hot Rox too. Then see if your temps move.
For sleep, try some ZMA and/or Melatonin (short term). Sounds like you are still in the throes of long term adaptation.
DH
[quote]dxbdude wrote:
Been logging my body temp first thing in the AM ,
Day 1 - 97.2 (Carbup ended night before)
Day 2 - 96.6
Day 3 - 96.4
Day 4 - 96.6
Day 5 - 96.5
Day 6 - 97.8 (Started carbup 4 pm on Day 5)
Day 7 - 97.2 (Full day carbup on Day 6)
Day 8 - 96.6
I am feeling quite ok throughout the weeks and have been having pretty decent workouts. Need for sleep has gone up, even on weekdays I have difficulty getting up in the morning which was not the case before I started AD.
Have the others been observing their body temp? Do you see a similar pattern?
DH, do you think any changes are required.
Thanks
DD
Disc Hoss wrote:
Well this post involves a few issues. Normal is assumed to be 98.6 but that is not usually the case. There is a range and the above number was an average. What you really needed was to see what your average daily was before you use AD. Then we could compare apples to apples. As it stands, I’d check your temp on Sat, Sun, and Mon when you should have plenty of CHO telling the body to optimize T3. Then compare this to the rest of the week. With the stored glycogen and the minimal daily intake, you should be fine with respect to Thyroid levels. Because we don’t know your measured average before the AD, then I’d go by strength levels and clothing fit. Many people make the mistake of assuming that all people are 98.6. Acutally I think it’s closer to 98.2 for an average and that has a range of probably +/- .5
Again, see how you do on the carb days and then compare this to the rest of the week.
But really if you are strong and getting visibly leaner, then you’re cool all the way around.
DH
dxbdude wrote:
Hello all,
I am on my 4th week of AD and so far everything is great. started taking my temp in the AM after waking up and found out that it hovers aroung 97.4-97.6. Now this is almost 1 degree less than the normal body temp. I am guessing this is due to metabolism going down. I am 174lbs and consuming between 2000-2500 cals with 55-60% fats, 50-55% protein and about 5% carbs. Also taking HOT-ROX(not the maximum strength one) everyday 2x2 caps.
Do I need to bump up my cals cause am still gaining strength in the gym but body temp stays at 97.5. Thanks,D
[/quote]
I have had some great results with TBT while on the AD, am on the 5th week and my strength is consistently going up while loosing fat. Suggest you look it up on the site and give it a try.
DD
[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Training question guys: Since I am using the diet to loose fat and maybe gain a slight amount of muscle (if possible); which program would be more conducive on this diet? OVT or Advanced GVT?
thanks!
Anyone have an opinion on my question?
I’m not a big fan of “fat-loss” weightlifting programs. I would suggest training for max strength. But, then again, OVT is a good program, so I wouldnt worry too much. Personally, I think EDT, focusing on heavy lifts is the way to go.
[/quote]
Many thanks DH, have added another 500 cals to the diet since yesterday to see what happens.Also have not been pyramiding the cals, maybe the body has got used to the same cals coming in everyday.Will start now.
DD
That should be a sound decision. See how many cals you can get away with, fluctuate them to stave off caloric adaptation, continue to keep a keen eye on your bodyfat and your temps. You should find that “magic” soon enough.
Also, without knowing your initial thyroid numbers before going on the AD, we are shooting in the dark. But considering that on the carb days and immediately thereafter you should be at your personal high end, then your overall fluctuation is not too bad. The above may optimize it a bit more.
DH
Can you give me a sense of your condition? Say maybe weight, rough BF percentage, age, and general demeanor (ie relaxed and easygoing or hyper etc…) Do you ever experience cold hands, feet, lower legs on a consistent basis?
[quote]dxbdude wrote:
Many thanks DH, have added another 500 cals to the diet since yesterday to see what happens.Also have not been pyramiding the cals, maybe the body has got used to the same cals coming in everyday.Will start now.
DD[/quote]
Not a problem at all Sir Charles. You were thinking along the responsible tangent. Well done. That’s the kind of advice the young guys need on these threads. It’s just that optimizing the body’s supply and usage of endogenous hormones is vastly different from ingestion of synthetics.
As a side note, epileptic children sometimes follow a continual ketogenic diet with great improvement in their condition. No health problems overall. Of course we know, after much discussion, that the AD is not a ketogenic diet per se. A teen on the AD should do well. Should set him up for a good base, good lipid profile, and possibly a better complexion as sugars seem to exacerbate acne.
My biggest suggestion for one this young is to be sure and utilize plenty of protein powder and olive oil. It will be hard to aquire much steak and the pricier meats unless mom and dad are “sittin’ pretty”. A part time job to buy some additional quality meats would be a good idea. Were a young man set his mind to do this diet, and stick to it, he’d do very well indeed.
DH
[quote]Charles Atlas wrote:
Whoops, guess I’d better just eat a big plate of crow. Sorry for throwing you off Africa X, just being overly cautious I guess. Good luck on the AD!
-CA
Disc Hoss wrote:
Eat more, bro. This is only a caloric suggestion. Everyone is different and being a young active teen will enable you to handle more cals. No problems at all. And your age makes no difference. We are optimizing the body’s output and creating a favorable ratios of not only T, but also GH, insulin, and glucagon, among many others. This is a far cry from ingesting exogenous synthetics. I wish I had this diet at your age. Dig in bro. You’ll be bigger and lean in no time.
Best,
DH
Lucky sucker!
Africa x wrote:
Hey guys,
I’m 16 and currently about 4 days into the diet. I’m in the matinence stage(obviously) and my matinence is around 2250-2700cals(my wieght is 150lbs) a day. Now I dont know if this is normal but I have never been so hungry in my life! I mean REALLY hungry, like eat-a-horse-hungry, but I dont want to go over my cal limit. As it is I already push it to 2700 each day. Is it normal to be so hungry? And do you guys think I can push my cal limit, or should I just stick to the cal limit and grin and bear it? I kinda feel like I’m depriving my body, but I don’t want to screw this up.
Thoughts?
[/quote]
Good input, Peteman. Fiber can really hinder appetite if overdone.
DH
[quote]Peteman wrote:
I was talking with a naturopathic doctor friend of mine this weekend and he mentioned that the full feeling could be from too much psyllium ingestion. I was taking about 4-6 tablespoons of the stuff giving me at least 50g of fibre and drinking at least 4l water a day, closer to 6… but i think all that soluable fibre gets stuffed in there and can make a person feel full constantly. I’m toning it down to 2 tbs a day and will see how that goes…
Peteman[/quote]
Uhh, do I know you BD?
DH
[quote]BookemD wrote:
AceQHounddog wrote:
Does anyone get wicked gas during their carb-ups? I’ve had it bad, no matter if my carb-up is clean or no holds barred inaling everything in sight. What have you found to combat this cause I’m making myself sick!
Ahhh…the joy of carb days…a nice summer morning…a plate full of carbs…the calming smell of Hounddog lingering in the air…
He…he…it happens bro…I just go with it. There are things you can take to minimize it, Bean-o, etc…, but it’s a good way to spend quality time alone with your carbs don’t you think? he…he…
Ask DH, we have had many fond memories with our carb days. What’s the saying, “Let no door go unsealed?” ;o)
-BD
[/quote]
To the ever patient Jeff K:
Peri-workout nutrition.
I have a few protocols that I think will work well. We’ll call them “economy”, “middle class”, “theoretical bliss”, and “Doc D’s Bomb”. There are a few others that I may throw out for specific purpose should the need arise.
Economy:
45 mins prior to training:
Some whey concentrate (say 25-40g)
Some caseinate (say 10g or so)
Post workout(immediately or soon after)
Same as above with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.
This should allow the aminos to be in the blood stream during the workout, signaling the body not to cannibalize muscle but rather use an easily utilized supply already. Then another hit after the workout for more protein synthesis.
Middle Class:
Whey isolate about 30 mins before (say 20g). Can add a little Milk Isolate or Micellar Caseinate too.
Whey isolate during (say 20g)
Post:
Whey isolate (20g)
Milk isolate or Micellar Caseinate(20g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.
Isolate is a little “cleaner” and faster and should be easy enough on the gut to ingest during. This should saturate your system with AA’s during the “hot times”. Milk Isolate gives a lttle casein which is very anticatabolic and at this small level shouldn’t slow down the overall effect too much. You’ll be covering the anabolic and anti-catabolic zones nicely.
Theoretical Bliss:
20-30 minutes prior
Hydrolyzed Whey (10g)
Whey Isolate (10g) for taste
Same during training
Post:
Hydrolyzed Whey (25g)
Whey Isolate (25g)
with 10-20g of heavy whipping cream.
Doc D’s Bomb:
Same as “theoretical bliss” but use the “Amino” product after for what Mauro says is the best “square wave” increase in the hyperaminoacidemia effect.
Now, before I set off a rabid argument over all this, remember that we are in an entirely different metabolic set than others. We will be using hyperaminoacidemia to stimulate insulin to an acceptable level to increase protein synthesis. You only need CHO if you are a CHO burner. Unnecessary for us.
IF you must, after 3 solid months on the diet WITHOUT post workout CHO, you may try using about 20g of glucose/maltodextrin or even plain old sugar ONLY on post workout. Never on pre or you’ll halt fat loss in it’s tracks. I really prefer to allow the body to continue to burn fat after the workout, and to have it get it’s glycogen from gluconeogeneisis from the breakdown of triglycerides. This is optimal.
I do not, and personally don’t suggest using any more than 20g of simple fast CHO to assist in insulin response after the workout. You DO NOT need it. You really don’t. The experts, many of whom I respect, are telling you what is necessary for the carb burners. It is a conditional observation. This is NOT your condition so it does not pan out the same for you. If you saturate the system with aminos from properly timed protein sources, you’ll get enough of an insulin response to get the protein synthesis we are looking for AND keep burning fat.
Best,
DH
Oh and in my honest opinion, you might only see a 10-20% improvement from the “least” to the “best” of the above scenarios. What that might mean is 2lbs more muscle in a years time. Don’t sweat it if you can only afford economy. You’re still doing great. The dietary structure of the AD is vastly more important.
To get a better understanding of this check out Dave Barr’s Top 10 Myths article. Protein synthesis is elevated for 24-48 hours after a workout. The famous “window” is not nearly as important as continuous feeding of the proper foods. That is what we are doing on the AD. The real focus should be on the anabolic effects of the AD. This is why frequent training augments the AD. You are in a state of perpetual protein synthesis stimulation, and are constantly giving the body the right macros for growth and fat loss. Post workout nutrition is no more important than breakfast and not much more so than standard meals.
REMEMBER THIS: (and forget all else if you want. Really.)
The big picture is MUCH more important than this one “meal” window of opportunity. Never forget that. Our CHO load, which works ONLY when we follow the AD with the bare minimum of CHO intake, is the monster insulin surge for growth that others don’t get. Then the bare bones CHO allows the week to set our T, GH, insulin, etc.. in both a growth AND fat loss mode. Don’t screw this up for a “myth” that we’ve been fed.
[quote]Jeff K wrote:
memonics wrote:
Things are going pretty good, except:
- After workout muscles don’t recover soon (sometimes takes 48 hours)
A sign of recovery “issues.” Two things immediately come to mind… peri-workout nutrition and overtraining/under-recovery.
Peri-workout nutrition: with simple carbs out of the question, this gets a little more complicated (you can’t just take a serving of Surge and be done with it). I believe Disc Hoss mentioned he was going to post HIS peri-workout nutrition protocol to the thread sometime. Maybe you should PM him and bug him about it…
Of course, this might be a case of adaptation. If you greatly increased your activity level since starting the AD your body might not yet be adapted to all the activity. You might just need another month or two to adjust…like the analogy of a new lumberjack. I don’t think this is TOO MUCH activity, but it might be too much TOO SOON.
Recovery optimizing acivities are always an option. CT wrote a good article on the subject a few months ago.
Just my thoughts. I’d be interested to hear some others chime in.
Great progress so far. Keep it up.
[/quote]
Will be putting the Starr scheme up soon.
DH