My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
6462

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Filmmakerr wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
Filmmakerr wrote:
I’m actually experimenting right now. I’m doing 80% Fat, and 20% Protein. I will continue to do this for about 5/6 Weeks, and see how I do. Then I will bring the fat down to about 50% and and up protein to about 30%

Thats a recipe for fat gain I would say. I wouldn’t go anywhere above 70%. And if you put the fat to 50% and the protein to 30% that means carbs would be 20%, which is a big no no. I’d stick to the ratio’s I suggested, but whatever floats your boat.

My typo, I ment to put I will switch over to 65% fats, 5% carbs (Trace) and 30% protein.

But until then, the large consumption of fat should get my body into ketosis, and fat adapted. I only lift 2-3 times a week heavy, and the rest is cardio. I am focusing on fat loss at best, as an Meso-Endo, muscle gain for me is fairly easy, fat loss is so much harder.

If you are looking for fat loss, once fat adapted (in this case, the 12 day period should be satisfactory) DROP THOSE FAT %'s TO 55%!!!

Reason: if you want to burn fat, you don’t want to give it so much from outside sources and therefore you make your body feed off of current bodyfat stores.

And to be honest, I’m not sure “giving more” fat will bring on adaptation sooner. Something sounds incorrect about that.

AD

So you’re saying to cut up more go 55% fat, 40% protein, and 5% carbs? Interesting, I might try that…I’ve been on for awhile…[/quote]

That’s exactly what I’m sayin’(and doin’) :wink:

AD

6463

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Filmmakerr wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
Filmmakerr wrote:
I’m actually experimenting right now. I’m doing 80% Fat, and 20% Protein. I will continue to do this for about 5/6 Weeks, and see how I do. Then I will bring the fat down to about 50% and and up protein to about 30%

Thats a recipe for fat gain I would say. I wouldn’t go anywhere above 70%. And if you put the fat to 50% and the protein to 30% that means carbs would be 20%, which is a big no no. I’d stick to the ratio’s I suggested, but whatever floats your boat.

My typo, I ment to put I will switch over to 65% fats, 5% carbs (Trace) and 30% protein.

But until then, the large consumption of fat should get my body into ketosis, and fat adapted. I only lift 2-3 times a week heavy, and the rest is cardio. I am focusing on fat loss at best, as an Meso-Endo, muscle gain for me is fairly easy, fat loss is so much harder.

If you are looking for fat loss, once fat adapted (in this case, the 12 day period should be satisfactory) DROP THOSE FAT %'s TO 55%!!!

Reason: if you want to burn fat, you don’t want to give it so much from outside sources and therefore you make your body feed off of current bodyfat stores.

And to be honest, I’m not sure “giving more” fat will bring on adaptation sooner. Something sounds incorrect about that.

AD

So you’re saying to cut up more go 55% fat, 40% protein, and 5% carbs? Interesting, I might try that…I’ve been on for awhile…

That’s exactly what I’m sayin’(and doin’) :wink:

AD[/quote]

How’s it working out for you? Have you lost additional bodyfat faster? What bf % are you at now?

6464

So, I’m headed into day 9 of my induction phase and I feel blah.

For the past few days I’ve been sneezing constantly, blowing my nose all the time, and tired. I thought maybe I wasa crashing but now to boot I have a cold sore(I’ve gotten them since I was 6, I didn’t get them from a whore) that just popped up, which never happens unless I’m sick.

I can’t tell if I’m crashing or if I caught a cold and due to my body trying to make the metabolic shift it has somehow weakened my immune system or left me vulnerable to virus.

Anyway, I’m just thinking out loud really.

Perhaps it’s a combination of the crash and a cold. Hmmmm

6465

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Filmmakerr wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
Filmmakerr wrote:
I’m actually experimenting right now. I’m doing 80% Fat, and 20% Protein. I will continue to do this for about 5/6 Weeks, and see how I do. Then I will bring the fat down to about 50% and and up protein to about 30%

Thats a recipe for fat gain I would say. I wouldn’t go anywhere above 70%. And if you put the fat to 50% and the protein to 30% that means carbs would be 20%, which is a big no no. I’d stick to the ratio’s I suggested, but whatever floats your boat.

My typo, I ment to put I will switch over to 65% fats, 5% carbs (Trace) and 30% protein.

But until then, the large consumption of fat should get my body into ketosis, and fat adapted. I only lift 2-3 times a week heavy, and the rest is cardio. I am focusing on fat loss at best, as an Meso-Endo, muscle gain for me is fairly easy, fat loss is so much harder.

If you are looking for fat loss, once fat adapted (in this case, the 12 day period should be satisfactory) DROP THOSE FAT %'s TO 55%!!!

Reason: if you want to burn fat, you don’t want to give it so much from outside sources and therefore you make your body feed off of current bodyfat stores.

And to be honest, I’m not sure “giving more” fat will bring on adaptation sooner. Something sounds incorrect about that.

AD

So you’re saying to cut up more go 55% fat, 40% protein, and 5% carbs? Interesting, I might try that…I’ve been on for awhile…

That’s exactly what I’m sayin’(and doin’) :wink:

AD

How’s it working out for you? Have you lost additional bodyfat faster? What bf % are you at now?[/quote]

I wish I knew for sure. They don’t have calipers out here in China (where I live and work), at least not on this tropical island (sorry, had to brag once again. :stuck_out_tongue: ).

I’m going to order some calipers from EliteFTS soon (once my credit card “comes through”…big hassle, but it should work in a week or 2).

The main method they use is that machine you hold out at arms length and squeeze (after inputting height). My new gym does not have that either (but the gym is much better equipped than my old one).

I can say that the difference on the scale has gone down even this week (in which I ate maybe 200-300 cals/day more than usual). The mirror certainly shows it clearly, and the comments from people confirm it.

Perhaps in a month or so, I can actually take a real measurement…but out of a guesstimate, I know I’m under 15%…perhaps as low as 13.

Wish I could give more info…but as DH told us a long time ago, the mirror is indeed a good indicator of progress.

And that advice (55% fat for fat loss) was originally given by an AD vet (who exactly it was is elluding me right now…sorry) months ago.

I hope this had some kind of help for you as there is really little else I can say right now, dude.

AD

6466

can someone answer the question i posted on page 261 please.

6467

[quote]shoelessjones wrote:
not sure what i should be feeling… it’s day 12… energy is back to normal… weight has stayed about the same… have been in the 2800-3300 calorie range for 12 days… fat intake consistently at 60-61%…my weight is 190… but i feel more soft around the middle than before i started… strength and stamina are good though… will wait until saturday morning to carb load…

does how i feel sound about right? i am not quitting… just skeptical still.

thanks in advance. [/quote]

I’m also on day 12 as of today… I’m 185 and I have been keeping my cals. in the same range as you… I feel normal also but when I look in the mirror I appear more lean…

I had 1 day in the gym that was just awful but that was only the 5th day into AD, so not sure if that was a crash or not… I was eating fairly low carbs before I started this, keeping carbs to a 3hr window after workouts and I was only lifting 2-3 days a week,… I’m not starting my carb up until next thursday due to schedule conflicts… My scale weight is about the same also !!

6468

Alpha, is the 12day period enough to be fat adapted? I mean, I feel like shit to be fat adapted on the 12th day, and carb up on the 15th day and blow it all up again.

6469

I too have been a bit skeptical after being on the diet for almost 4 weeks. I never felt like I really had a crash during the induction phase, but I think I can contribute that to keeping calories pretty high during the first few weeks (2900 with about 65% fats and 33% protein at a starting weight of about 150 and 15% BF). The diet has generally been pretty easy to follow so far. Not sure if that is a good thing or not as I kinda think of dieting as being something that kicks your ass once in a while.

I feel like I have gained some fat in the midsection, so I dropped kcal to 2700 for this week and may go down again starting either this Sunday or next. (I know DH and others have said 2 week periods before making changes.)

Just not getting the results I had hoped for after about a month on the diet. Wondering if I am doing something wrong or have just had the cals too high for my size.

Thoughts from anyone with more experience on the diet than me?

6470

Yesterdays Intake:

  1. 5:30 am - 2 whole eggs 1 white scrambled with 1 1/2
    sausage links , 1/4 cup cheddar and 1/2 tbs
    flax

  2. 8:00 am - 2oz hillshire summer sausage

  3. 10:30 am - same as meal 1

  4. 12:30 pm - 4oz 80% lean hamburger 1/2c broc.

  5. 2:30 pm - 4oz hamburger

  6. 4:30 pm - 16oz lipton diet green tea & 30grms whey

  7. 7:30 pm - 6oz grilled chicken breast, 1c broc. , 1/4 c
    feta cheese, 2tbs olive oil

  8. 10:00 pm - 1/4 heavy cream & wqater mixed wth 30 grm
    whey and 1 tbs olive oil

2832 k / 62% fat / 32% pro / 6% carbs (27.5 g net carbs)

6471

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
can someone answer the question i posted on page 261 please.[/quote]

Please post it again, ok? Most of us hate looking back and forward all the time. Sorry 'bout that.

AD

6472

[quote]Filmmakerr wrote:
Alpha, is the 12day period enough to be fat adapted? I mean, I feel like shit to be fat adapted on the 12th day, and carb up on the 15th day and blow it all up again.[/quote]

Film,

12 day period is adequate…nothing more than adequate. It’s basically the quickest way to get to the bare minimum for fat adaptation.

To be totally fat adapted will take up to 5-6 months of “by the book” eating.

Have you been careful to check all carbs? Even too much coffee can have too many hidden carbs.

Too many carbs during the induction period=feeling like crap.

Did you have a “crash” yet?

For the first month…count each and every carb, dude. Then a month or two down the line you can ease up a little…until finally 6 months later you can customize it.

At least that’s what I did.

AD

6473

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
I too have been a bit skeptical after being on the diet for almost 4 weeks. I never felt like I really had a crash during the induction phase, but I think I can contribute that to keeping calories pretty high during the first few weeks (2900 with about 65% fats and 33% protein at a starting weight of about 150 and 15% BF). The diet has generally been pretty easy to follow so far. Not sure if that is a good thing or not as I kinda think of dieting as being something that kicks your ass once in a while.

I feel like I have gained some fat in the midsection, so I dropped kcal to 2700 for this week and may go down again starting either this Sunday or next. (I know DH and others have said 2 week periods before making changes.)

Just not getting the results I had hoped for after about a month on the diet. Wondering if I am doing something wrong or have just had the cals too high for my size.

Thoughts from anyone with more experience on the diet than me?[/quote]

65% fat/day is WAY to high. Keep it at 60% max…if you’re dieting, keep it at 55%.

The AD is different from any other diet in that once fat adapted, it uses fat stores very efficiently for energy. Kinda like premium fuel, I suppose.

Your Cals are too high to be trying to cut up. I’m heavier than you are and I’m below 2000 almost daily.

In short…less cals (I’m talking 1750/day), and fix the macros to 55% fat, 40%Pro, 5% Cho, as I discussed a few posts ago.

Again, I’ve lost about 25 lbs in 12 weeks doing it this way. Weight train at least 3x/week (fullbody) with 2 days of GPP or HITT, or 5x/week (if doing a split routine, wiht perhaps one day of HIIT in there).

The AD works incredibly well if you do it correctly.

AD

6474

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
I too have been a bit skeptical after being on the diet for almost 4 weeks. I never felt like I really had a crash during the induction phase, but I think I can contribute that to keeping calories pretty high during the first few weeks (2900 with about 65% fats and 33% protein at a starting weight of about 150 and 15% BF). The diet has generally been pretty easy to follow so far. Not sure if that is a good thing or not as I kinda think of dieting as being something that kicks your ass once in a while.

I feel like I have gained some fat in the midsection, so I dropped kcal to 2700 for this week and may go down again starting either this Sunday or next. (I know DH and others have said 2 week periods before making changes.)

Just not getting the results I had hoped for after about a month on the diet. Wondering if I am doing something wrong or have just had the cals too high for my size.

Thoughts from anyone with more experience on the diet than me?[/quote]

65% fat/day is WAY to high. Keep it at 60% max…if you’re dieting, keep it at 55%.

The AD is different from any other diet in that once fat adapted, it uses fat stores very efficiently for energy. Kinda like premium fuel, I suppose.

Your Cals are too high to be trying to cut up. I’m heavier than you are and I’m below 2000 almost daily.

In short…less cals (I’m talking 1750/day), and fix the macros to 55% fat, 40%Pro, 5% Cho, as I discussed a few posts ago.

Again, I’ve lost about 25 lbs in 12 weeks doing it this way. Weight train at least 3x/week (fullbody) with 2 days of GPP or HITT, or 5x/week (if doing a split routine, wiht perhaps one day of HIIT in there).

The AD works incredibly well if you do it correctly.

AD

6475

[quote]PharmD Pete wrote:
I too have been a bit skeptical after being on the diet for almost 4 weeks. I never felt like I really had a crash during the induction phase, but I think I can contribute that to keeping calories pretty high during the first few weeks (2900 with about 65% fats and 33% protein at a starting weight of about 150 and 15% BF). The diet has generally been pretty easy to follow so far. Not sure if that is a good thing or not as I kinda think of dieting as being something that kicks your ass once in a while.

I feel like I have gained some fat in the midsection, so I dropped kcal to 2700 for this week and may go down again starting either this Sunday or next. (I know DH and others have said 2 week periods before making changes.)

Just not getting the results I had hoped for after about a month on the diet. Wondering if I am doing something wrong or have just had the cals too high for my size.

Thoughts from anyone with more experience on the diet than me?[/quote]

Your caloric intake is way too high. At your weight, to lose, you’ll have to drop below 2000, as AD said, somewhere around 1750 would probably be about right, and as long as you are doing some cardio, you probably won’t have to go any lower to see a real difference.

-james

6476

[quote]steelerfan wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
not sure what i should be feeling… it’s day 12… energy is back to normal… weight has stayed about the same… have been in the 2800-3300 calorie range for 12 days… fat intake consistently at 60-61%…my weight is 190… but i feel more soft around the middle than before i started… strength and stamina are good though… will wait until saturday morning to carb load…

does how i feel sound about right? i am not quitting… just skeptical still.

thanks in advance.

I’m also on day 12 as of today… I’m 185 and I have been keeping my cals. in the same range as you… I feel normal also but when I look in the mirror I appear more lean…

I had 1 day in the gym that was just awful but that was only the 5th day into AD, so not sure if that was a crash or not… I was eating fairly low carbs before I started this, keeping carbs to a 3hr window after workouts and I was only lifting 2-3 days a week,… I’m not starting my carb up until next thursday due to schedule conflicts… My scale weight is about the same also !! [/quote]

ok… let me know how you continue to feel and progress. after reading some of these latest threads, after i carb load this weekend, i am going to do two things… cut my calories down to about 2000-2200 and change the ration to 55/40/5 during the week. i am going to try this for 3-4 weeks and see how it goes.

any other thoughts from anyone else are much appreciated.

thanks again in advance.

6477

I am currently on day 7 of the 12 day induction phase, and I have been consistently between 50%-60% fats, 45-35% protein and 5% CHO. My question is what is the ratio on the weekend carb ups? I thought the answer was a few pages back, but I scrolled through a few of them and could only find the weekday percentages.

Thanks a lot.
JM

6478

60% Carb 25% fat 15% protein

6479

[quote]Florida Titan wrote:
60% Carb 25% fat 15% protein[/quote]

Thanks FT.

Also, two days ago I think I experience the “crash.” I was tired at work all day, despite having some caffeine, and when I got home from work I passed out for about 2 hours. The next day and today I have felt energetic, and been fine all day without the caffeine. Does this mean my body is “fat-adapted?” I’m still going to go through all 12 days of the induction phase, I’m just curious as to what the crash and recovery means in terms of the science.

Thanks all.
JM

6480

[quote]shoelessjones wrote:
steelerfan wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
not sure what i should be feeling… it’s day 12… energy is back to normal… weight has stayed about the same… have been in the 2800-3300 calorie range for 12 days… fat intake consistently at 60-61%…my weight is 190… but i feel more soft around the middle than before i started… strength and stamina are good though… will wait until saturday morning to carb load…

does how i feel sound about right? i am not quitting… just skeptical still.

thanks in advance.

I’m also on day 12 as of today… I’m 185 and I have been keeping my cals. in the same range as you… I feel normal also but when I look in the mirror I appear more lean…

I had 1 day in the gym that was just awful but that was only the 5th day into AD, so not sure if that was a crash or not… I was eating fairly low carbs before I started this, keeping carbs to a 3hr window after workouts and I was only lifting 2-3 days a week,… I’m not starting my carb up until next thursday due to schedule conflicts… My scale weight is about the same also !!

ok… let me know how you continue to feel and progress. after reading some of these latest threads, after i carb load this weekend, i am going to do two things… cut my calories down to about 2000-2200 and change the ration to 55/40/5 during the week. i am going to try this for 3-4 weeks and see how it goes.

any other thoughts from anyone else are much appreciated.

thanks again in advance.[/quote]

Remember, the purpose of becoming fat adapted is to get your body to burn fat for energy, instead of CHO (and ketones). So if you want to lose weight on the AD, you have to cut your fat consumption before (in order that) your body will burn your own adipose.

I think you can do this 2 ways: 1). Cut your fat intake during the week, to about 50%, 2). Cut your fat intake on your CHO-Load days to about 30%.

So, after you are fully fat adapted, the 5-day CHO-depletion would look like, 50F/45P/5CHO, and the 24-36 hour CHO-Load, 60CHO/30F/10P (per Dr. D), or 50CHO/30F/20P (per DH), or 60C/30P/10F (my preference).

Just remember, CHO are protein sparing, so you don’t have to worry about ingesting large quantities of protein on these days. And combining large percentages of CHO and Fat is a recipe for fat gain.

Since fat is calorie dense, this will greatly reduce your caloric intake. In other words, just slightly reduce your fat consumption during the week, and drastically reduce it on CHO-Load days, and the calories (and adipose burning) will take care of itself.

However, I don’t think that reducing your weekly fat intake (during CHO depletion days) is recommended until you are fully fat adapted. Until then, just be sure to reduce your fat intake on you CHO-Load days. I’d say, give it a few months, then experiment with the 5-day depletion ratio.

(Parenthetically: I believe that the distinction in the AD diet over others, which speak in terms of ketosis, like Atkins, is, Dr. D says that if you are excreting ketones in your urine, you are in a state of ketosis, and, therefore, NOT fat adapted. According to Dr. D, ketosis is very catabolic (destructive/muscle destroying), and is to be avoided.

On the other hand, if you are fat adapted, there will be no ketones in your urine, BECAUSE your body is efficiently burning fat for fuel, i.e., it doesn’t need to produce ketones for fuel, OR the few that it does produce (like to fuel the brain), are efficiently burned up.

Furthermore, it is the 30g. prescription of CHO that keeps you out of ketosis during the week, and keeps your body fat adapted (along w/increased fat consumption), while the CHO-Load days are the intended anabolic (constructive/muscle building) phase of the AD diet.)

Someone else can chime in here, but I don’t think that it is EVER advisable to drop below 50% fat consumption during CHO depletion days. The issue here is one of fat for energy, in the face of CHO depletion, and keeping your body fat-adapted, and out of ketosis (according to Dr. D) during the week.

But I’d say, just experiment with it, and if your energy levels drop during the 5-day CHO depletion days, just increase your FAT (not CHO) consumption.

Also, during your CH0 loads, be sure that most of your CHO come from starches, like, breads/grains, rice, pastas, potatoes (Russet, Red, White, Sweet Potatoes/Yams, etc.), oatmeal, etc.

These will refuel you muscles with much need glycogen, but simple CHO/sugar will go straight to your liver, and too much of this will lead to fat gain.

-james

6481

[quote]natural59 wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
steelerfan wrote:
shoelessjones wrote:
not sure what i should be feeling… it’s day 12… energy is back to normal… weight has stayed about the same… have been in the 2800-3300 calorie range for 12 days… fat intake consistently at 60-61%…my weight is 190… but i feel more soft around the middle than before i started… strength and stamina are good though… will wait until saturday morning to carb load…

does how i feel sound about right? i am not quitting… just skeptical still.

thanks in advance.

I’m also on day 12 as of today… I’m 185 and I have been keeping my cals. in the same range as you… I feel normal also but when I look in the mirror I appear more lean…

I had 1 day in the gym that was just awful but that was only the 5th day into AD, so not sure if that was a crash or not… I was eating fairly low carbs before I started this, keeping carbs to a 3hr window after workouts and I was only lifting 2-3 days a week,… I’m not starting my carb up until next thursday due to schedule conflicts… My scale weight is about the same also !!

ok… let me know how you continue to feel and progress. after reading some of these latest threads, after i carb load this weekend, i am going to do two things… cut my calories down to about 2000-2200 and change the ration to 55/40/5 during the week. i am going to try this for 3-4 weeks and see how it goes.

any other thoughts from anyone else are much appreciated.

thanks again in advance.

Remember, the purpose of becoming fat adapted is to get your body to burn fat for energy, instead of CHO (and ketones). So if you want to lose weight on the AD, you have to cut your fat consumption before (in order that) your body will burn your own adipose.

I think you can do this 2 ways: 1). Cut your fat intake during the week, to about 50%, 2). Cut your fat intake on your CHO-Load days to about 30%.

So, after you are fully fat adapted, the 5-day CHO-depletion would look like, 50F/45P/5CHO, and the 24-36 hour CHO-Load, 60CHO/30F/10P (per Dr. D), or 50CHO/30F/20P (per DH), or 60C/30P/20F (my preference). Just remember, CHO are protein sparing, so you don’t have to worry about ingesting large quantities of protein on these days. And combining large percentages of CHO and Fat is a recipe for fat gain.

Since fat is calorie dense, this will greatly reduce your caloric intake. In other words, just slightly reduce your fat consumption during the week, and drastically reduce it on CHO-Load days, and the calories (and adipose burning) will take care of itself.

However, I don’t think that reducing your weekly fat intake (during CHO depletion days) is recommended until you are fully fat adapted. Until then, just be sure to reduce your fat intake on you CHO-Load days. I’d say, give it a few months, then experiment with the 5-day depletion ratio.

(Parenthetically: I believe that the distinction in the AD diet over others, which speak in terms of ketosis, like Atkins, is, Dr. D says that if you are excreting ketones in your urine, you are in a state of ketosis, and, therefore, NOT fat adapted. According to Dr. D, ketosis is very catabolic (destructive/muscle destroying), and is to be avoided.

On the other hand, if you are fat adapted, there will be no ketones in your urine, BECAUSE your body is efficiently burning fat for fuel, i.e., it doesn’t need to produce ketones for fuel, OR the few that it does produce (like to fuel the brain), are efficiently burned up.

Furthermore, it is the 30g. prescription of CHO that keeps you out of ketosis during the week, and keeps your body fat adapted (along w/increased fat consumption), while the CHO-Load days are the intended anabolic (constructive/muscle building) phase of the AD diet.)

Someone else can chime in here, but I don’t think that it is EVER advisable to drop below 50% fat consumption during CHO depletion days. The issue here is one of fat for energy, in the face of CHO depletion, and keeping your body fat-adapted, and out of ketosis (according to Dr. D) during the week. But I’d say, just experiment with it, and if your energy levels drop during the 5-day CHO depletion days, just increase your FAT (not CHO) consumption.

Also, during your CH0 loads, be sure that most of your CHO come from starches, like, breads/grains, rice, pastas, potatoes (Russet, Red, White, Sweet Potatoes/Yams, etc.), oatmeal, etc.

These will refuel you muscles with much need glycogen, but simple CHO/sugar will go straight to your liver, and too much of this will lead to fat gain.

-james[/quote]

all makes sense and i understand this is not a black and white plan… i will have to try different things over time… so i appreciate your comments.

is it easy to test for ketones in the urine? if so, how? i know i smell the ammonia in my urine (NH2).