[quote]natural59 wrote:
mikew55 wrote:
Ratio Confusion?
I know I might be over analyzing this but it is just the way my brain works. I think I have the 48 hour refeed down.
Based on 3000kcal…Refeed ratio would be…60% from cho - 1800kcal -450 grams, 30% from Fats -900kcal -100 grams and only 10% protein- 300kcal- 75 grams.
This is were I am getting confused�?� Based on 3000kcal. Monday-Friday. Cho- 120 kcal.- 30grams.
What are the protein ratios. Is it 1gram per lbm or 1.5 grams per lbm?
I can figure the fat percentage out once I know the protein and vice versa.
Or is the fat percentage at a certain ration say 70% or 80% and the protein just makes up the difference of the 3000kcal.
Any clarification would be great. Also the fat can come from any source? Sat fat, poly, mono fat. There is not ratio for the fat calories. Any and all fat is good?
At first, I thought the ratios were simple:
Ingest 1-1.5g. of PROTEIN per pound of LBM (Lean Body Mass), record this in terms of CALORIES, add in your 30g. of CHO, record these in terms of CALORIES, then just ensure that 60% of your total CALORIC INTAKE was derived from FATS. Simple…!
However, the question arose about what an appropriate PROTEIN intake consists of while on a low-CHO diet. I don’t know if this is specifically addressed in the book, but I don’t recall seeing it discussed here. At least, not as it relates to GLUCONEOGENESIS. So I’m posting a question here that I had posted in another thread regarding the same issue:
[SNIPPET]
I’d like to know, when on a CHO-restricted diet, which process the body prioritizes, using fat or protein for the primary energy source…?
A couple of reasons for asking: I’ve found a reference to gluconeogenesis in several articles discussing CHO-restricted diets on the web, and even in a T-Nation article, where Joel Marion says:
“if ketosis is the goal, protein intake should be set around .8 to 1 grams per pound of lean body mass, but not higher. Reason being, even if carbohydrate is severely restricted, a high protein intake may keep you from reaching ketosis due to gluconeogenesis, or the conversion of protein to glucose within the body.”
(LINK: http://www.T-Nation.com/...c.do?id=1138762 )
Obviously, if we are to keep an AD’esque paradigm, where 60% of our caloric intake is derived from fat, it would have to be measured mainly against our protein intake, since CHO only comprises a very small percentage.
In other words, overall caloric intake would be restricted, if we are locked in to .8g-1g. of protein per pound of LBM. If not, we may run the risk of spoiling the conversion of fat as the primary fuel source. Again, depending on which of these processes the body prioritizes, in the absence of CHO, i.e., using fat or protein for the primary fuel source.
Could it be that many have been defeating the purpose of the AD by consuming excessive amounts of protein…?
Quoting Wikipedia:
“Carbohydrates are not essential nutrients: the body can obtain all its energy from protein and fats. The brain cannot burn fat and needs glucose for energy, but the body can make this glucose from protein.”
So where does it (the body) look first…to protein or fat…?
Obviously, if our ratios are kept in tact, ingested fat will be more abundant than protein, not even counting adipose, but perhaps there is a biological mechanism for converting excess protein for the bodies energy demands ahead of fat, and many have been circumventing their own efforts at becoming fat adapted by ingesting excessive amounts of protein.
Does anyone have a definitive reference that speaks to this issue…?
I understand there is some controversy over whether or not one actually enters ketosis, or if ketosis is necessary for fat adaptation, but regardless of the definition, it appears it is an essential part of the process, according to many references:
Again, quoting Wikipedia:
“Glucose is regarded as the preferred energy source for all cells in the body with ketosis being regarded as a crisis reaction of the body to a lack of carbohydrates in the diet.”
At any rate, I’m not arguing for or against ketosis, but I’d like to know, in the absence of CHO, is fat or protein the body’s primary fuel source…?
[/SNIPPET]
The issue, at least to me, is, in the absence of CHO, which is the body’s preferred fuel…?
To date, I’ve read several references that discussed GLUCONEOGENESIS as it relates to low-CHO diets, but none of them addressed whether, in the absence of CHO, the body will preferencially burn FAT or PROTEIN for fuel.
It’s just an unqualified guess, but I’d assume that this is the reason for the higher percentage of caloric FAT consumption, i.e., the body will prioritize whichever fuel source is MOST abundant. But I’d like to read a definitive reference regarding this issue, to put all assumptions to rest…
-james
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Good post, but i guess theres only really one good way of telling. I’d say for one month use ratios of 60:5:35 (F:C:P), and record body fat loss / weight loss. The next month switch the ratio to 45:5:50 (or perhaps 40:5:55, but i’d stick with the 45 to ensure that you are getting over the 40% fat). I’m not patient enough to try these experiments, plus I’m starting school very soon again and won’t have time to concentrate on specific numbers and figures in my diet, although i’ll continue on the AD.
Although I think i’m going to be trying the latter ratio of more protein % than fat % because being a broke college student means lots of protein shakes to get me through the day. Plus I just bought the Zero Carb Isopure (22$ at GNC hehe) which has lots of protein (50g per 2 scoops), and relatively no fat (1g per 2 scoops), so that will defintely lead me to those ratios.
but yea i posted a response to your original post earlier maybe 4-5 pages or so ago where i mentioneds some people you may want to PM for indepth info