My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
5542

hey guys…i have a question and it may have already been addressed in this thread but it will take me forever to read through all these pages…so I hope you don’t mind

I am currently on the RD and am starting to question this diet as I’m noticing significant energy loss, strength loss, no endurance etc. I’m coming to the end of my 2nd week and have lost 6lbs but feel that I’m losing muscle as i don’t look much leaner - just smaller…

SOO…my question is - do i stick it out and do another 4-6weeks or do I transition into the AD? And if I do transition into the AD, how quickly I should be upping my calories???

any help is appreciated!

Kari

5543

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Arrow22 wrote:
Is it normal to feel like crap on the first week after the first carb load?

Can you define “crap” in specifics?

i.e.
No energy
Bloated feeling
Retaining water
Physically weak
Mentally foggy etc…[/quote]

It’s been a few days since my first carbload and I feel like I did on some of my days during the 12 day introduction:

-No energy. Want to sleep all day
-Yes, I am retaining watter and bloated (figured I would only feel this way the day after the carbload)
-Physically weak. Not as weak as during the 12 day but weaker before I ever started this diet

That pretty much sums it up. Normal? Give it more time?

One more thing is that I’m doing this for cutting and am thinking of making the carbload just one day versus two.

5544

[quote]krew wrote:
hey guys…i have a question and it may have already been addressed in this thread but it will take me forever to read through all these pages…so I hope you don’t mind

I am currently on the RD and am starting to question this diet as I’m noticing significant energy loss, strength loss, no endurance etc. I’m coming to the end of my 2nd week and have lost 6lbs but feel that I’m losing muscle as i don’t look much leaner - just smaller…

SOO…my question is - do i stick it out and do another 4-6weeks or do I transition into the AD? And if I do transition into the AD, how quickly I should be upping my calories???

any help is appreciated!

Kari[/quote]

You started on the RD? Or you were already on the AD when you started the RD?

In any event, let’s re-frame your question: Should you continue doing the same thing that has already led to muscle loss?

5545

[quote]allNatural wrote:

Where did this come from? I geniunely thought you were joking since you said you were on the diet. Sorry.[/quote]

This is my first time doing the diet and I’m in the first week of the intro phase. I was just makin sure about the whole deal after the intro phase and making sure I was doing it right. Didn’t mean to be so snappy. I’m not enjoying lack of carbs heh.

5546

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

     Hey PauliD,

I’m on day 12 and have a pretty massive headache right now, but have felt pretty good overall. I am going to wait till Saturday and carb up.

There have been a couple times I didn’t feel that good, just kind of weird, almost didn’t want to eat, but then did and felt better.

I guess I’m on schedule here.
Have been running the calories up to 3200 a little over the 3000 mark. I’m ready to drop the fat cals down after this weekend. maybe even starting today to around 2500 cals.

Anyway, how does this sound to you big guy?
best, ToneBone[/quote]

Well, sorry to hear about the headache.

You mention that you’re going to cut cals, which is fine -but I would suggest cutting cals across the board, especially since you’ve just completed the induction phase.

Now I know that the text indicates that dietary fats should be lowered to burn body fat…and this is an accurate statement. However, we just stripped carbs to encourage fat burning. And it does take a good 4-6 months to become completely fat adapted, so perhaps we shouldn’t cut fat just yet. At least not disproportionately.

After all, we don’t want to become better at burning protein (ie muscle), now do we?
:wink:

It would probably suit you bettter to cut cals across the board and keep fats readily available for fuel.

In other words…cut cals if you wish, but try to keep your macro %'s in the 60/35/<5 range…at least to get the ‘furnace’ started.

Also, and this comes straight from Dr DiPas,…cut as few cals as absolutely necessary -start with a 250 cal daily deficit, remember to fluctuate intake, then assess after two weeks.

Patience pays on the AD…patience, patience, patience.

:wink:

peace

5547

[quote]Arrow22 wrote:
It’s been a few days since my first carbload and I feel like I did on some of my days during the 12 day introduction:

-No energy. Want to sleep all day
-Yes, I am retaining watter and bloated (figured I would only feel this way the day after the carbload)
-Physically weak. Not as weak as during the 12 day but weaker before I ever started this diet

That pretty much sums it up. Normal? Give it more time?

One more thing is that I’m doing this for cutting and am thinking of making the carbload just one day versus two.
[/quote]

Time certainly is the big equalizer on the AD. As Dr. DiPas says “The AD does not fail, but people do fail the AD.”

Now that is not to say that we should keep doing what isn’t working…No, no no.

Some foods may not suit your particular physiology. You may be getting too much sodium -not enough sodium -not enough water -not enough greens…it all depends.

You may have gone waaaay overboard on your carb-up -you may not have gone far enough…it’s hard to say.

Post your diet and training -let’s take a look.

If you subscribe to fitday.com -you can make your journal public (post a link here) -then we can see what’s what.

peace

5548

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
In any event, let’s re-frame your question: Should you continue doing the same thing that has already led to muscle loss?
[/quote]

Krew,

I think CLaw is hitting it on the head here, although we should probably first assess your starting points.

I’m going to assume that since you are on the RD, you have substantial bodyfat to lose. This being the case, I can tell you that as you start losing weight, you may not actually look any leaner/more defined.

In fact, the result will probably be just as you described: a smaller version of your old you. However, as you approach, let’s say, the 12% range, you will start to see your body’s shape as you will have trimmed off the fat that was blurring your form.

Also, you are only two weeks in to the damn thing. Cutting calories is tough as is, cutting all your carbs out makes it brutal.

As to the perceived loss of muscle, this could be a result of many factors: (1) low glycogen levels (2) low cellular water (3) overall fatigue from cutting calories (4) the metabolic shift you are forcing upon yourself… the list really does go on.

Still, you are going to need to be very objective in your self-analysis here, and I think CLaw was telling you just that. Use OUTCOME-BASED DECISION MAKING.

Again though, give us an idea of your weight, activity level, caloric level, and workout schedule. My guess is we can come to a solution. Just keep in mind, the solution might just be stick it out.

5549

[quote]Pauli D wrote:

Well, sorry to hear about the headache.

You mention that you’re going to cut cals, which is fine -but I would suggest cutting cals across the board, especially since you’ve just completed the induction phase.

Now I know that the text indicates that dietary fats should be lowered to burn body fat…and this is an accurate statement. However, we just stripped carbs to encourage fat burning. And it does take a good 4-6 months to become completely fat adapted, so perhaps we shouldn’t cut fat just yet. At least not disproportionately.

After all, we don’t want to become better at burning protein (ie muscle), now do we?
:wink:

It would probably suit you bettter to cut cals across the board and keep fats readily available for fuel.

In other words…cut cals if you wish, but try to keep your macro %'s in the 60/35/<5 range…at least to get the ‘furnace’ started.

Also, and this comes straight from Dr DiPas,…cut as few cals as absolutely necessary -start with a 250 cal daily deficit, remember to fluctuate intake, then assess after two weeks.

Patience pays on the AD…patience, patience, patience.

:wink:

peace[/quote]

       Pauli,
   You have a very good point, and I would have just cut fats, glad you made that point, as that could have been ugly...I'm happy to say that I think I crashed today somewhat. I basicly felt like shit all morning until just a while ago. Stomach, the headache,(part of that was probably due to a contact lens thing), definitely didn't feel good though. I think that was it, took some asprin and headache has subsided, and for some reason, the stomach thing is gone now too.

      Anyway, I will keep the ratios intact as you said, and cut down to 2400 cals. I was at 3000 give or take and last few days at 3200 avg. And I been staying at 190lbs. So, do you think droppin to 2400 is too much, even if the macros are kept up?

        I would like to go with that and then move slower on the drops.
   Iwas going to go with 12XBW, but that was around 2200, which might be too much too soon.

      Thoughts:
     Thanks as usual for the helpful insight into the macros buddy.
        regards, ToneBone
5550

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
As Dr. DiPas says “The AD does not fail, but people do fail the AD.”
[/quote]

Because the AD works for 100% of people? Seriously, dude, that’s dogma at its worst.

5551

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
In any event, let’s re-frame your question: Should you continue doing the same thing that has already led to muscle loss?

Krew,

I think CLaw is hitting it on the head here, although we should probably first assess your starting points.

I’m going to assume that since you are on the RD, you have substantial bodyfat to lose. This being the case, I can tell you that as you start losing weight, you may not actually look any leaner/more defined.

In fact, the result will probably be just as you described: a smaller version of your old you. However, as you approach, let’s say, the 12% range, you will start to see your body’s shape as you will have trimmed off the fat that was blurring your form.

Also, you are only two weeks in to the damn thing. Cutting calories is tough as is, cutting all your carbs out makes it brutal.

As to the perceived loss of muscle, this could be a result of many factors: (1) low glycogen levels (2) low cellular water (3) overall fatigue from cutting calories (4) the metabolic shift you are forcing upon yourself… the list really does go on.

Still, you are going to need to be very objective in your self-analysis here, and I think CLaw was telling you just that. Use OUTCOME-BASED DECISION MAKING.

Again though, give us an idea of your weight, activity level, caloric level, and workout schedule. My guess is we can come to a solution. Just keep in mind, the solution might just be stick it out.[/quote]

Kari,

I agree with ovalpline and CLaw here. You are just two weeks into the diet and with the calorie AND carb restrictions at this point you are more than likely low on glycogen as ovalpline had stated and therefore you are going to start to look flatter in the muscles due to less water retention. Something to be mindful of though is that you ARE losing so that is progress, but you must be careful on the RD so that you don’t lose the muscle you have. The RD is a different animal, but has the Metabolic/Anabolic Diet as it’s backbone.

You must and I repeat MUST get your macro breakdown correct on the RD to get the Maximum benefits. On such restrictions you should be getting at least 60% of your calories from protien. At least if not more. What is your Macro breakdown? We may be able to help with food choices as well.

Also, as far as energy is concerned, you are just starting a “radical diet” therefore you are going through “radical changes”. Get your sleep(I know that sounds stupid, but I have seen it before), get your water, and get your proper macro intake. There’s more, but work on the basics first.(be sure you are getting your potassium)

Sounds like progress to me even with the current side effects. You are just breaking through so if you want to continue, we are here to help, but you need to be the judge.

By the way what about your goals? Sorry if I missed anything.

Best,UE

5552

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Anyway, I will keep the ratios intact as you said, and cut down to 2400 cals. I was at 3000 give or take and last few days at 3200 avg. And I been staying at 190lbs. So, do you think droppin to 2400 is too much, even if the macros are kept up?

        I would like to go with that and then move slower on the drops.
   Iwas going to go with 12XBW, but that was around 2200, which might be too much too soon.

      Thoughts:[/quote]

2400 cals at 190lbs doesn’t sound too radical, no. Give it a try.
Just be patient with it.
Fat loss isn’t always a simple, linear process. And the slower you can do it, the better you’ll feel and the more successful you’ll be in the long run.

peace

5553

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
As Dr. DiPas says “The AD does not fail, but people do fail the AD.”

Because the AD works for 100% of people? Seriously, dude, that’s dogma at its worst.[/quote]

It may be a dogmatic statement.
However I don’t believe the good doctor was asserting that his plan is meant for, or would work for, 100% of the populus.

The context of his statement, and what I was trying to echo, is that in his experience and because the AD is so adaptive, if the client is not gaining the anticipated benefits…there is a reason.
If he can nail that reason down…he can fix it.

If one is patient enough on the AD, and sticks with it long enough, one can learn a great deal about one’s own metabolism and physiology.

And knowledge of that sort is a fine, fine currency; the type of currency that pays rich and rewarding dividends in fact.

peace

5554

[quote]Pauli D wrote:

2400 cals at 190lbs doesn’t sound too radical, no. Give it a try.
Just be patient with it.
Fat loss isn’t always a simple, linear process. And the slower you can do it, the better you’ll feel and the more successful you’ll be in the long run.

peace
[/quote]

    thanks Pauli D. I actually stopped at 2260 some odd cals tonight.
      No problems.
         ToneBone
5555

[quote]Underestimated wrote:
ovalpline wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
In any event, let’s re-frame your question: Should you continue doing the same thing that has already led to muscle loss?

Krew,

I think CLaw is hitting it on the head here, although we should probably first assess your starting points.

I’m going to assume that since you are on the RD, you have substantial bodyfat to lose. This being the case, I can tell you that as you start losing weight, you may not actually look any leaner/more defined.

In fact, the result will probably be just as you described: a smaller version of your old you. However, as you approach, let’s say, the 12% range, you will start to see your body’s shape as you will have trimmed off the fat that was blurring your form.

Also, you are only two weeks in to the damn thing. Cutting calories is tough as is, cutting all your carbs out makes it brutal.

As to the perceived loss of muscle, this could be a result of many factors: (1) low glycogen levels (2) low cellular water (3) overall fatigue from cutting calories (4) the metabolic shift you are forcing upon yourself… the list really does go on.

Still, you are going to need to be very objective in your self-analysis here, and I think CLaw was telling you just that. Use OUTCOME-BASED DECISION MAKING.

Again though, give us an idea of your weight, activity level, caloric level, and workout schedule. My guess is we can come to a solution. Just keep in mind, the solution might just be stick it out.

Kari,

I agree with ovalpline and CLaw here. You are just two weeks into the diet and with the calorie AND carb restrictions at this point you are more than likely low on glycogen as ovalpline had stated and therefore you are going to start to look flatter in the muscles due to less water retention. Something to be mindful of though is that you ARE losing so that is progress, but you must be careful on the RD so that you don’t lose the muscle you have. The RD is a different animal, but has the Metabolic/Anabolic Diet as it’s backbone.

You must and I repeat MUST get your macro breakdown correct on the RD to get the Maximum benefits. On such restrictions you should be getting at least 60% of your calories from protien. At least if not more. What is your Macro breakdown? We may be able to help with food choices as well.

Also, as far as energy is concerned, you are just starting a “radical diet” therefore you are going through “radical changes”. Get your sleep(I know that sounds stupid, but I have seen it before), get your water, and get your proper macro intake. There’s more, but work on the basics first.(be sure you are getting your potassium)

Sounds like progress to me even with the current side effects. You are just breaking through so if you want to continue, we are here to help, but you need to be the judge.

By the way what about your goals? Sorry if I missed anything.

Best,UE

[/quote]

Wow…thanks so much for the support/advice - I really appreciate it…here is a little more about me…

I’m 24, 5’7, apprx 19-20%BF, started the RD Mon June 4 @ 153lbs, had my first HCC day on Sat. June 9 @ 149lb (1 pound early) and I am now at 147 on the scale as of this morning. I am following the Real Fast Fat Loss program by cosgrove and Waterbury with 1-2 extra cardio sessions a week(LIT)

Here is my typical food intake:

M1- 1 scoop Protein (23gPro)

  • 11 almonds

M2 - 1 scoop Protein

  • 14 walnut halves

M3 - 3 whole eggs

  • serving of veggies

M4 - 3oz Chicken

  • Spinach, onions, cucumber and
    1tsp EVOO

M5 - Either Chicken, Fish, or lean steak
with grilled peppers with EVOO and
garlic.

4-6L of water every day

Totals:
1010cals (55g Fat, 21g CHO, 112g Pro)

My idea was to use the RD until i hit 140lbs and then transition onto the AD to get me to 135ish.

I know that this is going to be tough but I’m willing to continue. SO - any more advice is appreciated!!!

Thanks again,
Kari

5556 
      Ok, I am changing my mind Pauli with regards to dropping cals across the board. Dr. D says to drop only the fat, so I am going with that, I got the Anabolic Solution now, and am digesting it just like a piece of meat...lol.

Anyway, keeping cals at 2400-2500 from here out for a week or two, and carbin up tomorrow, either 48 hours low glycemic, or 24-36 with a mix of low/high. probably the latter.
cheers everyone,
ToneBone

5557 
       Hey ADers,

I was just wondering how many of you actually go above the weekday calorie limits that you abide by during the weekend carb up? It has me wondering if I should or not as I am trying to cut basicly. But it seems that such is the case for a lot of us…

     I'm dropping my weekday cals to 2500, and I got in just over 700 for breakfast today..Had a serving of oatmeal, coffee with the hazelnut creamer, a ham and bolgna sandwich w/lettuce and cheese and one pancake w/lite syrup. I have a family dinner later also, so I'm a little curious if it's cool to go over...

        any thoughts?
         Tonebone
5558

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

       Hey ADers,

I was just wondering how many of you actually go above the weekday calorie limits that you abide by during the weekend carb up? It has me wondering if I should or not as I am trying to cut basicly. But it seems that such is the case for a lot of us…

     I'm dropping my weekday cals to 2500, and I got in just over 700 for breakfast today..Had a serving of oatmeal, coffee with the hazelnut creamer, a ham and bolgna sandwich w/lettuce and cheese and one pancake w/lite syrup. I have a family dinner later also, so I'm a little curious if it's cool to go over...

        any thoughts?
         Tonebone[/quote]

Yes, go over if you have to.

I’d reccomend going by your weekly total. Makes things much more flexible.

5559

[quote]krew wrote:

Wow…thanks so much for the support/advice - I really appreciate it…here is a little more about me…

I’m 24, 5’7, apprx 19-20%BF, started the RD Mon June 4 @ 153lbs, had my first HCC day on Sat. June 9 @ 149lb (1 pound early) and I am now at 147 on the scale as of this morning. I am following the Real Fast Fat Loss program by cosgrove and Waterbury with 1-2 extra cardio sessions a week(LIT)

Here is my typical food intake:

M1- 1 scoop Protein (23gPro)

  • 11 almonds

M2 - 1 scoop Protein

  • 14 walnut halves

M3 - 3 whole eggs

  • serving of veggies

M4 - 3oz Chicken

  • Spinach, onions, cucumber and
    1tsp EVOO

M5 - Either Chicken, Fish, or lean steak
with grilled peppers with EVOO and
garlic.

4-6L of water every day

Totals:
1010cals (55g Fat, 21g CHO, 112g Pro)

My idea was to use the RD until i hit 140lbs and then transition onto the AD to get me to 135ish.

I know that this is going to be tough but I’m willing to continue. SO - any more advice is appreciated!!!

Thanks again,
Kari
[/quote]

Kari,

I am impressed by your motivation. Doing the RFFL routine is just about perfect with the RD, but just don’t overdo it. You will definitely be draining yourself.

I would recommend replacing the walnuts or almonds w/real meat(chicken preferably) to get the protein up and you shouldn’t be afraid of going a little over on the cals(200-400) if you are that active. Just make them Protein cals(muscle sparing while on the RD). Your body will let you know the longer you are on the diet.
Seeing as though you didn’t have much weight to lose before going on the AD you could switch at any time with no problems, but the macro breakdown is a little different.
Also, please tell me that you are using some supplements(vitamins, etc.)

Best, UE
5560

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

       Hey ADers,

I was just wondering how many of you actually go above the weekday calorie limits that you abide by during the weekend carb up? It has me wondering if I should or not as I am trying to cut basicly. But it seems that such is the case for a lot of us…

     I'm dropping my weekday cals to 2500, and I got in just over 700 for breakfast today..Had a serving of oatmeal, coffee with the hazelnut creamer, a ham and bolgna sandwich w/lettuce and cheese and one pancake w/lite syrup. I have a family dinner later also, so I'm a little curious if it's cool to go over...

        any thoughts?
         Tonebone[/quote]

Since my gains have been a little bit slow this weekend I’m going over I just had a MRD and 8 waffles with brown rice syrup for breakfast. Today I’m going for 800g of carbs. For the last 3 weeks I’ve been at 340g pro and 180g fat + 30g carb during the weekdays thats 3100 cals.

I’ll raise the fat a little if I’m more active. At these levels I’ve lost some fat and gained some muscle and I’m happy I can fit in my jeans again.

5561

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

       Hey ADers,

I was just wondering how many of you actually go above the weekday calorie limits that you abide by during the weekend carb up? It has me wondering if I should or not as I am trying to cut basicly. But it seems that such is the case for a lot of us…

     I'm dropping my weekday cals to 2500, and I got in just over 700 for breakfast today..Had a serving of oatmeal, coffee with the hazelnut creamer, a ham and bolgna sandwich w/lettuce and cheese and one pancake w/lite syrup. I have a family dinner later also, so I'm a little curious if it's cool to go over...

        any thoughts?
         Tonebone[/quote]

Tonebone,
I just took in over 10,000 calories in the last 24 hours and by next Friday night I will be down at least 1 pound from this Friday by dropping to my cutting cals throughout the week.
I wouldn’t recommend you do that(10,000 cals) seeing you just started, but I figured I would let you know what’s working for me now. This may begin to change in several weeks, so some tweaking may be in order, but it shows how forgiving and beneficial this diet can be with patience and adaptation.
Give yourself some time and you will see too. Going over is not a problem as long as you listen to your body and make adjustments over time. Zigg Zagging your calories throughout the week or Ramping the loads for weekly averages can be very productive.
Drastic changes sometimes have benefits too, but there is a time and a place so slow and steady is the prescription in the early stages.

Best, UE