BookemD
Not really a roid rage like you are talking about. More of just aggressiveness towards lifting. I’m sure 90% of it is in my head, but my energy and motivation is through the roof. I do not take any supps, just tons of beef.
[quote]njstomp wrote:
BookemD
Not really a roid rage like you are talking about. More of just aggressiveness towards lifting. I’m sure 90% of it is in my head, but my energy and motivation is through the roof. I do not take any supps, just tons of beef.[/quote]
Good for you then NJ, go with it. I was referring more to grappler having to apologize to his friend for “busting his chops”. BTW, did he accept your apology Grap? ;o)
-BD
[quote]Owen70 wrote:
Farmer_jay wrote:
- I’m currently on Massive Eating, and I’ve had great success over the last 3-4 months. Typical skinny hardgainer and I’ve finally been able to pack on some pounds. In light of this I was wondering if anyone knew what Dr. JB’s thoughts were on this diet. I know he recommends PWO nutrition to include a lot of carbs. This diet and JB’s advice seem to be polar opposites, any comments?
I’d have to first ask, if you “had(have) great success over the past 3-4 months with massive eating” and you are not looking to cut with this diet, WHY would you switch plans? Let it bleed until dry, then make a new cut, to phrase it gothly haha. If there is some other reason, just re-post and ill write something more intelligent up
Farmer_jay wrote: - As I mentioned I’m mainly interested in bulking up. I’m not interested in the cutting phase of AD to maintain below 10% bodyfat. Would it be hard to maintain the bulking phase for a long period of time (at least a few months). It seemed from Shugart’s article he kind of implied that bulking on the AD was hard due to the amount of calories you need to take in on a high fat diet. So is the AD a lot easier for losing body fat while maintaining muscle and opposed to bulking up for longer periods of time?
see the above.
And with regards to your question on PWO nutrition, I REALLY think the amount of carbs the JB reccomends is high, like unless you are a complete fucking ecto who works 2 construction jobs. I have been cutting for like 8 weeks now, i never ever have carbs in my protein shake, and i have only lost 1/4th inch off my arms in the entire time, which is pretty good considering how much fat i have lost. But since you are saying you are an ecto, I think probably 10-30 grams per shake, depending on the volume of the session, is a fine amount.
Thanks any advice is appreciated.
[/quote]
Alright thanks for the advice. I am hitting somewhat of a wall now with Massive Eating, I just upped my calories again by 250 but I think I’m just gaining fat now. I’m considering the switch to AD but I still have a few more questions.
I’ve read a lot of the forums on Pre and Post workout nutrition on the AD but now I need some practicality. From what I can gather you should take Hydro Whey w/ some glucose before and after a workout. Keeping in mind to limit the grams of glucose to meet the 30 g per day.
What products are best for this? What Hydro Whey/Casein and Glucose product would you recommend?
Also, I thought Dr. D advised to take Protein and Amino Acids after the workout. Is this what the glucose is for or should I add something else?
Sorry I feel a little naive on this.
Hey guys and gals, i’m thinking about trying this diet out and though i know it says this diet sounds like it won’t work, it does. I want to start in the cutting phase as i need to lose fat but it suggests weight*18 minus 1,000 calories, I’m 200 so that makes 3600 calories. All of he metabolic rate tests i’ve used place me between 2,000 and 2,200 cals per day. How in the world does taking in more calories than i burn during a day relate to weight loss?
[quote]BookemD wrote:
Good for you then NJ, go with it. I was referring more to grappler having to apologize to his friend for “busting his chops”. BTW, did he accept your apology Grap? ;o)
-BD
[/quote]
Yeah, he did. I didn’t go off on him or lose my temper or anything. I just got on a roll of light-hearted slams and insults towards my good friend. It was all in good fun and he actually complimented me on the verbal onslaught.
[quote]jmbundy wrote:
Hey guys and gals, i’m thinking about trying this diet out and though i know it says this diet sounds like it won’t work, it does. I want to start in the cutting phase as i need to lose fat but it suggests weight*18 minus 1,000 calories, I’m 200 so that makes 3600 calories. All of he metabolic rate tests i’ve used place me between 2,000 and 2,200 cals per day. How in the world does taking in more calories than i burn during a day relate to weight loss?[/quote]
Read JB’s last article about energy balance.
Energy balance is not a bath tub, it’s not just energy in minus energy out, there are many more varables than that. Significantly, the amount of energy you take in has an effect on the amount of energy you expend.
Also, because protein is a less effecient fuel, you only get a net gain of about 70% of proteins kcals, versus 94ish for carbs, so macronutrients are as significant a concern as total energy intake. Eating a high fat diet also encourages the production of lipolytic enzymes, so you preferentially burn fat and store glucose. This means when you take in an abundance of calories from fat, when fat adapted, you are more likely to burn it, using it to fuel various bodily functions like muscle growth.
So what I’m getting at is that it’s not too important to get caught up in the energy balance kcal nonsense. Let the mirror/scale guide you, as opposed to published energy intake/expenditure figures derived from arbitrary populations in university studies.
Also, AD’ers please correct where I have oversimplified and generally butchered Doc D’s and other’s science.
[quote]Farmer_jay wrote:
Alright thanks for the advice. I am hitting somewhat of a wall now with Massive Eating, I just upped my calories again by 250 but I think I’m just gaining fat now. I’m considering the switch to AD but I still have a few more questions.
[/quote]
this is probably as simple as you are too high of a bodyfat percentage to expected (much) lean gain without fat gain. if you’re BF is 2% over your regular BF% i’d say start dieting. but then again you can start dieting whenever the hell you want.
[quote]Farmer_jay wrote:
I’ve read a lot of the forums on Pre and Post workout nutrition on the AD but now I need some practicality. From what I can gather you should take Hydro Whey w/ some glucose before and after a workout. Keeping in mind to limit the grams of glucose to meet the 30 g per day.
[/quote]
i know some people may think its infinitely important to have the hydro whey, it is honestly a matter of like 15 minutes absorption wise, and about 30 bucks/per 10 lbs or whatever. IMO, you would be much better off(costwise at least) to just get 15 grams of whey(just regular) protein like 30 minutes before the workout, and 15 grams afterward. remember, many of the studies that show muscle gain/retention whatever involve only .2 grams protein/kg bodyweight(LBM? only??) so that is like 0.1 grams protein/per pound of bodyweight, which ina 200 pound man is ONLY 20 GRAMS OF PROTEIN. you dont need to overkill here, it is just excess cals/wasted money
[quote]Farmer_jay wrote:
What products are best for this? What Hydro Whey/Casein and Glucose product would you recommend?
[/quote]
if you reeeaaaallly want to go this route(although for the reasons above id advise against it) Surge is a good product. but you can just mix up Grow! or whatever the fuck you use with some malto.
[quote]Farmer_jay wrote:
Also, I thought Dr. D advised to take Protein and Amino Acids after the workout. Is this what the glucose is for or should I add something else?
[/quote]
gluclose is a carb. i dont believe they sell straight glucose, as it is the form your body transforms malto/dextro into. and at least in my opinion, amino’s are big waste of money, unless you have money to spare(notice how being 16 affects my advice haha) but i think Surge has added aminos to it or some shit, as do many other bcaa products, but remember straight bcaa’s taste like monkey ass cured in a saltwater brine.
I just reread the protein cycling articles by Doc Jones in the archives.
If cycling intensity and volume is good, and cycling carb intake is good, I don’t see why cycling protein intake would be inherently bad. I can definitely see some merit, but I would like to know what you guys think about incorporating it into the AD. I also realize I want to have some more experience on the AD before I go toying with it, but this has got me itnerested.
When would you want to schedule your protein refeed? To coincide with the carb up, or just after it? I can see how doing the carb up just before could be anticatabolic during the later days of protein restriction, but I can also imagine that, because the amount of protein needed on the refeed would be relatively moderate, it wouldn’t interfere with the carb up.
My most important question would be, is it even feasible to increase fat calories to make up for the protein calories lost when down cycling? How low can one afford to go protein wise? Maybe .5 g/lb lbw? Then how far do you go up, double that?
DH, I think you mentioned decreasing protein during the carb feeding and how it might affect protein utilization. I know Doc D says something similar in the book.
Thoughts?
[quote]jmbundy wrote:
Hey guys and gals, i’m thinking about trying this diet out and though i know it says this diet sounds like it won’t work, it does. I want to start in the cutting phase as i need to lose fat but it suggests weight*18 minus 1,000 calories, I’m 200 so that makes 3600 calories. All of he metabolic rate tests i’ve used place me between 2,000 and 2,200 cals per day. How in the world does taking in more calories than i burn during a day relate to weight loss?[/quote]
Yea it’s weird and goes against every idea floating around about how to diet but the important thing is: it works. Example. One time about 6-7 years ago I was on the AD about 6 months. Having great results and I decided to really put it to the test. Over a 48 hr. carb up I took in roughly 11,000 calories at a bodywt. of 195.
During the next week I had a huge surge of energy and incredible workouts. I lost approx. 1 inch from my waist and my scale wt. went up 4 lbs to just under 200. This ‘energy balance’ stuff is for housewives. To do the AD you have to adopt the T-Man mindset. So go for it, eat like a man.
Barry
Excuse me as I pour an entire canister of oats directly down my throat.
[quote]conorh wrote:
I just reread the protein cycling articles by Doc Jones in the archives.
If cycling intensity and volume is good, and cycling carb intake is good, I don’t see why cycling protein intake would be inherently bad. I can definitely see some merit, but I would like to know what you guys think about incorporating it into the AD. I also realize I want to have some more experience on the AD before I go toying with it, but this has got me itnerested.
When would you want to schedule your protein refeed? To coincide with the carb up, or just after it? I can see how doing the carb up just before could be anticatabolic during the later days of protein restriction, but I can also imagine that, because the amount of protein needed on the refeed would be relatively moderate, it wouldn’t interfere with the carb up.
My most important question would be, is it even feasible to increase fat calories to make up for the protein calories lost when down cycling? How low can one afford to go protein wise? Maybe .5 g/lb lbw? Then how far do you go up, double that?
DH, I think you mentioned decreasing protein during the carb feeding and how it might affect protein utilization. I know Doc D says something similar in the book.
Thoughts?[/quote]
this is just my opinion.
i think the idea of protein cycling in the first place is pretty pointless. that article never impressed me, even when i first read it and it had that"ooohhh sounds fun because its new and exciting" feel to it or whatever.
you don’t need as much protein on the refeed as you do on low carb days because when you load your body spares alot of the protein that would be gluceogenesis(hwoever the fuck you spell that) on low carb days.
you can go as low as .8grams/kg of BW so for me that is
200lbs/2.2=~90
90 x .8 = (.)72
but i think it is much more reasonable to do the 1.6grams pro x BW in kg or whatever. which is ~150, which is the amount i get everyday(aroundthere)
you dont really need as much protein as many people(on here) believe, IMO. and the whole thermic effect of feeding thing is overblown IMO. i dont think the human body is so fucking dumb that it isnt going to learn how to better process protein than it does in some of those studies(which i havent looked at but i would strongly imagine they were done on people who are of no interest to this question.) for guys like us who have been eating clean or whatver for so long, i think the TEF %'s become much more standarized than the usual 20% or whatever the hell it is “usually”
sorry if this posts reads crazy, its 5 AM
[quote]mozhne wrote:
jmbundy wrote:
Hey guys and gals, i’m thinking about trying this diet out and though i know it says this diet sounds like it won’t work, it does. I want to start in the cutting phase as i need to lose fat but it suggests weight*18 minus 1,000 calories, I’m 200 so that makes 3600 calories. All of he metabolic rate tests i’ve used place me between 2,000 and 2,200 cals per day. How in the world does taking in more calories than i burn during a day relate to weight loss?
Yea it’s weird and goes against every idea floating around about how to diet but the important thing is: it works. Example. One time about 6-7 years ago I was on the AD about 6 months. Having great results and I decided to really put it to the test. Over a 48 hr. carb up I took in roughly 11,000 calories at a bodywt. of 195.
During the next week I had a huge surge of energy and incredible workouts. I lost approx. 1 inch from my waist and my scale wt. went up 4 lbs to just under 200. This ‘energy balance’ stuff is for housewives. To do the AD you have to adopt the T-Man mindset. So go for it, eat like a man.
Barry
[/quote]
barry, not to fuck with the you or the AD, but i think it is only fair to some of the lurkers on this thread to say that results like that, although they can happen, are not usual. you dont need people going more fucktard on the refeed than they already do.
i know for me and others the biggest hardship of the entire week is the carbload, just because it gets so easy to overeat on the bad shit.
but nevertheless that just goes to show how much more FUN carbcycling/loading is than regular dieting 
[quote]conorh wrote:
Also, because protein is a less effecient fuel, you only get a net gain of about 70% of proteins kcals, versus 94ish for carbs, so macronutrients are as significant a concern as total energy intake. Eating a high fat diet also encourages the production of lipolytic enzymes, so you preferentially burn fat and store glucose. This means when you take in an abundance of calories from fat, when fat adapted, you are more likely to burn it, using it to fuel various bodily functions like muscle growth.
[/quote] this goes with an above posts of mine, but if you burn whatever 30% of the actual cals you intake just digesting them, wouldnt you only absorb 70%, and therefore only get the feeling of eating 70%. but yeah bro, im not saying i dont condone this too, because in the long run, if you can get people to eat more protein than cho it is going to be better for them IMO just if for nothing else it is much harder to overeat straight protein than carbs because who the fuck gets joy out of eating 5 chicken breasts as opposed to 5 bowls of lucky charms. that isnt very hoss.
So what I’m getting at is that it’s not too important to get caught up in the energy balance kcal nonsense. Let the mirror/scale guide you, as opposed to published energy intake/expenditure figures derived from arbitrary populations in university studies.
Also, AD’ers please correct where I have oversimplified and generally butchered Doc D’s and other’s science.[/quote]
Good Morning AD’ers, started my 48 hr carb load last night. Today I’m starting out with a nice bowl of oats and blueberries with a scoop of strawberry grow. Today is a good day. To all those whose first carb up is today, as is mine. Ladies and gentlemen, lets get ready to eeeeaaaaattttt.
Man, I’m on my second carb-up right now, and I feel awesome. This may be because I just took Surge for the first time before my sprinting work. Wow! What a freakin’ buzz, I’m still jittery. Everything still going great with the AD. My weight was all over the place this last week, I went from 157 to 168 and everywhere in between. I’m kinda wondering when these weight fluctuations are going to stop.
Okay it’s day 6 for me. My first saturday but still low carbs. My weight is down a little bit but I look more flat than when I first started. I’m looking forward to the first carb up.
No real energy crash yet though.
What does anyone think of an anabolic diet combined with ephedra(pseudophed)or HOT-ROX combined with Power Drive? Will it work?
Brandon Green
[quote]cccp21 wrote:
What does anyone think of an anabolic diet combined with ephedra(pseudophed)or HOT-ROX combined with Power Drive? Will it work?
Brandon Green[/quote]
HOT-ROX will work fine. Power Drive will work fine. ephedrine will work fine(but add some caffeine in a 1:10 ratio E:C).
add them altogether and you’ll feel like lindsay lohan on a friday night.
[quote]cccp21 wrote:
What does anyone think of an anabolic diet combined with ephedra(pseudophed)or HOT-ROX combined with Power Drive? Will it work?
Brandon Green[/quote]
I currently chase 2 HOT-ROX capsules with a serving of Power Drive in the morning and it works great for me.
If you have any more questions regarding this, Cy is a good person to ask.
-BD
I am sure HOT-ROX would be a great addition to this diet, but I think those that are just starting the AD should feel the waters out first. I plan on Hitting my 12 week mark before I add any supps (Carbolin 19). I am no expert, but I think that this might be the best approach to this and any new diet you start.
By the way I am four weeks in and so far I love this diet. Carb ups are great, but by Sunday I am ready for some fats 
I am not missing the carbs as bad as I thought I would, and my energy is amazing. Does anyone else get an extreme buzz from caffeine containing products. I can get hyped all to hell off just one cup of coffee. Does this have something to do with the high fast intake?