My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
4242

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Hmm. Thank you for the replies…I ended up giving in and eating about 20g of carbs from veggies. :frowning: I wanted to ask…my philosophy going into this was that I would get my body used to burning fat in about 3-4 months on the AD and then when my injury is all healed I can go back to intense workouts and eating my carbs in a cyclical diet. However, is this philosophy flawed? Will my body be unable to handle carbs when I try to go back and will I end up just gaining a bunch of fat?

Thanks!

[/quote]

pm ovalpline…he has a thread for cycling off the AD so as not to get a bad response from just stopping

4243

Sarah,

Have you posted a typical day’s diet?

If so, I apologize for missing it, but it seems as though we’re all trying to piece together responses based upon your day to day ‘feelings.’

Give us something more to go on.

How are you tracking your macros?

Fitday.com (or similar software) is invaluable in this regard. It’s free and easy and can give you a wealth of info to refer to as you progress.

20 grams of carbs from veggies may not mean ‘beans’ -dependent upon the source. It’s common to ingest 100+ grams daily and still be well below the 30 gram max due to the mitigating fiber. Are you considering fiber?

Give us a food log.

Hang in there. It DOES improve and you WILL feel better for it.
Honest.

peace

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Hmm. Thank you for the replies…I ended up giving in and eating about 20g of carbs from veggies. :frowning: I wanted to ask…my philosophy going into this was that I would get my body used to burning fat in about 3-4 months on the AD and then when my injury is all healed I can go back to intense workouts and eating my carbs in a cyclical diet. However, is this philosophy flawed? Will my body be unable to handle carbs when I try to go back and will I end up just gaining a bunch of fat?

Thanks!

[/quote]

4244

Well, I started logging everything on fitday and I don’t understand how you guys say veggies don’t add up. Just 2 cups of cucumbers…4 carbs, broccoli 1 cup 2 carbs, all of these net. What I’ve tried the last few days is something like this:

2 scoops whey
coffee with cream
handfull of nuts

workout (crappy so ate nuts and whey during to get me through)

chicken - 6 oz
cheese - 1 oz

5 eggs with 2 yolks
1 oz cheese
1 cup bell pepper chopped

nuts
few eggs

then started the feeling crappiness…had a red bell pepper, tea with cream, a cup of cucumber

later woke up and couldn’t sleep =

ate broccoli, protein pudding *4 carbs(, cucmber, and red pepper

All this added up to 60 net carbs…totally screwed up. I’ve eaten about 2000 extra cals in the last 2 days since fats have replaced all my veggies.

Prior I was NOT eating a lot of carbs at all - I was eating only a LOT of green veggies and a bit of onion and a lot of protein. I was satisfied at 1600 cals. Now I am shaky at 2200. I’m absolutely freaked to try to go off the diet now though since I have gained probably a pound of FAT in the last 2 days.

I am totally upset and berating myself for leaving my previous lower carb but healthy diet. Now I’ve screwed up my body…I should be thinner due to water loss but I’ve gotten FAT as HELL in the last 2 days. I’m really freaked and don’t really know what I should do…advice???

The diet said it was okay to gain fat at first since your body will lose it…but where my metabolism it at it will NOT lose any of this stuff I’ve gained and futhermore I’m injured so I can’t just go exercise it off. I’m really really upset. I think everything has gone horribly wrong…

4245

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Well, I started logging everything on fitday and I don’t understand how you guys say veggies don’t add up. Just 2 cups of cucumbers…4 carbs, broccoli 1 cup 2 carbs, all of these net. What I’ve tried the last few days is something like this:

2 scoops whey
coffee with cream
handfull of nuts

workout (crappy so ate nuts and whey during to get me through)

chicken - 6 oz
cheese - 1 oz

5 eggs with 2 yolks
1 oz cheese
1 cup bell pepper chopped

nuts
few eggs

then started the feeling crappiness…had a red bell pepper, tea with cream, a cup of cucumber

later woke up and couldn’t sleep =

ate broccoli, protein pudding *4 carbs(, cucmber, and red pepper

All this added up to 60 net carbs…totally screwed up. I’ve eaten about 2000 extra cals in the last 2 days since fats have replaced all my veggies.

Prior I was NOT eating a lot of carbs at all - I was eating only a LOT of green veggies and a bit of onion and a lot of protein. I was satisfied at 1600 cals. Now I am shaky at 2200. I’m absolutely freaked to try to go off the diet now though since I have gained probably a pound of FAT in the last 2 days.

I am totally upset and berating myself for leaving my previous lower carb but healthy diet. Now I’ve screwed up my body…I should be thinner due to water loss but I’ve gotten FAT as HELL in the last 2 days. I’m really freaked and don’t really know what I should do…advice???

The diet said it was okay to gain fat at first since your body will lose it…but where my metabolism it at it will NOT lose any of this stuff I’ve gained and futhermore I’m injured so I can’t just go exercise it off. I’m really really upset. I think everything has gone horribly wrong…
[/quote]

Mmmm…You really like cucumber…nothing wrong with that. A large (8" long) cuc’ has 7 carbs and 2 grams fiber = 5 net carbs. It may not be the wisest choice for the induction phase (broc, spinach, cauli are all better ;))…but it’s not going to hurt you -and it certainly isn’t going to make you fat!
Have you ever seen a fat vegetarian?
Me either :wink:
Keep up with the green veggies -just as you’re accustommed to. You can’t go wrong there.

Secondly, forget the scale and the panic for that matter. We’ve all been through it. It will get better.
Just take it easy, really. We’re here to help.
Look at the size of this thread and the success stories on it. This is for real. It works, but it does take a bit of patience.

Try a brocolli, egg & cheese omelet for breakfast. Eat something a bit more substantial to begin your day.
And don’t skip the yolks! They contain quality protein! And Fats! You need them…they’ll do you good.

Good job on the nuts…they’re a great snack choice!

Lastly…you haven’t gotten ‘fat as hell’ and you certainly haven’t gained two lbs of fat. Your body just isn’t that efficient, believe me.

You may not feel right just yet -but it’s coming.

Hang in there.

peace

4246

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Mmmm…You really like cucumber…nothing wrong with that. A large (8" long) cuc’ has 7 carbs and 2 grams fiber = 5 net carbs. It may not be the wisest choice for the induction phase (broc, spinach, cauli are all better ;))…but it’s not going to hurt you -and it certainly isn’t going to make you fat!
Have you ever seen a fat vegetarian?
Me either :wink:
Keep up with the green veggies -just as you’re accustommed to. You can’t go wrong there.

Secondly, forget the scale and the panic for that matter. We’ve all been through it. It will get better.
Just take it easy, really. We’re here to help.
Look at the size of this thread and the success stories on it. This is for real. It works, but it does take a bit of patience.

Try a brocolli, egg & cheese omelet for breakfast. Eat something a bit more substantial to begin your day.
And don’t skip the yolks! They contain quality protein! And Fats! You need them…they’ll do you good.

Good job on the nuts…they’re a great snack choice!

Lastly…you haven’t gotten ‘fat as hell’ and you certainly haven’t gained two lbs of fat. Your body just isn’t that efficient, believe me.

You may not feel right just yet -but it’s coming.

Hang in there.

peace[/quote]

Yep all the way. Listen to what you’re being told here if you want this to work. He’s right, we have all been through this.

YOU ARE NOT GETTING NEARLY ENOUGH FAT. Especially during the induction you need great, heaping, Richard Simmons killing quantities of fat. You are supposed to be grabbing your body by the scruff of the neck and sticking it’s face in a giant bowl of lipids and telling it “use this or die”.

You are getting yourself stuck in between carb and fat burning modes which will lead to unthinkable disaster.

I eat 12-15 whole eggs a day, almost a pound of beef, full fat cheese, butter, 3- 5 tbsp of EVOO, chicken THIGHS mmmmm dripping in fatty yummy skin.

I am not getting fat. That is the whole point. When you get adapted your body will churn through fat like nobody’s business, but you are not giving it enough for this to happen.

Pauli told you the gospel truth about the scale too. Lock it away and give somebody else the key for at least a month. You are going to have to be willing to see some radical fluctuations for a while until this all settles in, but after that it’s smooth sailing.

I don’t mean to yell, but you are dooming yourself here. Tell the fat phobia to get lost, ban that instinct from your thinking or go back to a conventional diet before you get yourself so screwed up it’ll take months to repair.

4247

sarah1

first off as quit worrying, the only thing making you fat is all of your cortisol from worrying soo much. and what everyone else says eat more fat!

also yes going from a low carb diet to higher carbs will lead to fat gain if you dont do it gradually, thib has posted good guidless in his thib zone and bell diet threads on how to go from a cyclical type diet and introduce carbs, basically added like carbs in 25 grams increments to post workout shakes and breakfat and stuff.

and for the targeted cyclical post workout dicussion i think it would be very differnt. First, 600 grams over a 2 day cycle is pretty low.
2nd you wont get the deplete/load cycle.
3rd hormorne wise your insulin levels probably wont get as low, so growth hormore probably wont get as high because of this.

not saying this is necearrsily bad, but its not too AD and you probably wont be so fat adapeted with such frequent carb feedings, it sounds more nutrient timing really, maybe a slighter lower carb version though

4248

[quote]YoungGunner wrote:
<<< also yes going from a low carb diet to higher carbs will lead to fat gain if you dont do it gradually, >>>[/quote]

OK, I really do not want to either confuse this young lady or offend you, but I couldn’t disagree with this more.

Being too gradual is exactly what she’s doing and is the direct cause of the trouble she’s having. Adaptation has to be jumped into with both feet and kamikaze like abandon until the initial phase has taken place.

You’re better off overdoing the fat and getting no carbs for the first 2 weeks. After the metabolism has been convinced that you are not going to give it enough carbs to live on and has decided that fat will do fine, there are still several weeks of gradually decreasing upheaval after which you THEN are approaching a position to have an intelligent collection of data to proceed from.

She is playing metabolic tug o war with herself. Not enough of either fuel source which will eventually turn on herself with muscle being the only remaining choice.

This is one them thar shit or get off the pot scenarios.

4249

[quote]YoungGunner wrote:
and for the targeted cyclical post workout dicussion i think it would be very differnt. First, 600 grams over a 2 day cycle is pretty low.
2nd you wont get the deplete/load cycle.
3rd hormorne wise your insulin levels probably wont get as low, so growth hormore probably wont get as high because of this.

not saying this is necearrsily bad, but its not too AD and you probably wont be so fat adapeted with such frequent carb feedings, it sounds more nutrient timing really, maybe a slighter lower carb version though[/quote]

I wasn’t suggesting that it was the AD, just trying to figure out what it is that makes it different.

So your contention is that the total depletion of glycogen, which is linked to increased GH production, is the real key to the AD?

I can definitely tell that there is a different effect produced by the depletion/load model versus the nutrient timing model, but would your insulin levels really vary that significantly if you were only taking in carbs in the morning?

How long do your insulin levels stay elevated? I thought they just spiked to ship the glycogen into the muscles then dropped back down as the day went on. Isn’t that why nutrient timing works, and you don’t build massive amounts of adipose tissue even when you’re intaking a lot of fat?

4250

[quote]industrialplaid wrote:
YoungGunner wrote:
and for the targeted cyclical post workout dicussion i think it would be very differnt. First, 600 grams over a 2 day cycle is pretty low.
2nd you wont get the deplete/load cycle.
3rd hormorne wise your insulin levels probably wont get as low, so growth hormore probably wont get as high because of this.

not saying this is necearrsily bad, but its not too AD and you probably wont be so fat adapeted with such frequent carb feedings, it sounds more nutrient timing really, maybe a slighter lower carb version though

I wasn’t suggesting that it was the AD, just trying to figure out what it is that makes it different.

So your contention is that the total depletion of glycogen, which is linked to increased GH production, is the real key to the AD?

I can definitely tell that there is a different effect produced by the depletion/load model versus the nutrient timing model, but would your insulin levels really vary that significantly if you were only taking in carbs in the morning?

How long do your insulin levels stay elevated? I thought they just spiked to ship the glycogen into the muscles then dropped back down as the day went on. Isn’t that why nutrient timing works, and you don’t build massive amounts of adipose tissue even when you’re intaking a lot of fat?

[/quote]sarah …pauli , tribulus and all here are telling u the truth belive me if u just go according to them u will have astonishing changes in ur energy levels but still if u are a little skeptical pls … read this following link which will clear all ur doubts this will explain u all the details of metabolism , how our cells function and which fuel is best for them iam sure ur doubts will get clear

4251

[quote]industrialplaid wrote:
YoungGunner wrote:
and for the targeted cyclical post workout dicussion i think it would be very differnt. First, 600 grams over a 2 day cycle is pretty low.
2nd you wont get the deplete/load cycle.
3rd hormorne wise your insulin levels probably wont get as low, so growth hormore probably wont get as high because of this.

not saying this is necearrsily bad, but its not too AD and you probably wont be so fat adapeted with such frequent carb feedings, it sounds more nutrient timing really, maybe a slighter lower carb version though

I wasn’t suggesting that it was the AD, just trying to figure out what it is that makes it different.

So your contention is that the total depletion of glycogen, which is linked to increased GH production, is the real key to the AD?

I can definitely tell that there is a different effect produced by the depletion/load model versus the nutrient timing model, but would your insulin levels really vary that significantly if you were only taking in carbs in the morning?

How long do your insulin levels stay elevated? I thought they just spiked to ship the glycogen into the muscles then dropped back down as the day went on. Isn’t that why nutrient timing works, and you don’t build massive amounts of adipose tissue even when you’re intaking a lot of fat?

[/quote]

very intresting articles hope every one reads it . this man has done hid phd in lowcarb high fat world and is following this theory for last 40 years. his site also has some amzing articles on how we r fooled by the media and medical establisment also sometimes for there own intrest.

4252

[quote]industrialplaid wrote:
YoungGunner wrote:
and for the targeted cyclical post workout dicussion i think it would be very differnt. First, 600 grams over a 2 day cycle is pretty low.
2nd you wont get the deplete/load cycle.
3rd hormorne wise your insulin levels probably wont get as low, so growth hormore probably wont get as high because of this.

not saying this is necearrsily bad, but its not too AD and you probably wont be so fat adapeted with such frequent carb feedings, it sounds more nutrient timing really, maybe a slighter lower carb version though

I wasn’t suggesting that it was the AD, just trying to figure out what it is that makes it different.

So your contention is that the total depletion of glycogen, which is linked to increased GH production, is the real key to the AD?

I can definitely tell that there is a different effect produced by the depletion/load model versus the nutrient timing model, but would your insulin levels really vary that significantly if you were only taking in carbs in the morning?

How long do your insulin levels stay elevated? I thought they just spiked to ship the glycogen into the muscles then dropped back down as the day went on. Isn’t that why nutrient timing works, and you don’t build massive amounts of adipose tissue even when you’re intaking a lot of fat?

[/quote]
ndustrialplaid ur questions are logical and they r answered here in this article with daigrams hope it helps u

4253

Before I post, I have read the first 100 pages of this thread and the e-book and made an e-book of my own by copying and pasting valuable snippets.

Just ONE question:
60g blueberries and 30g raspberries daily…aye or nay? I ask in case they have some kind of crazy insulin spiking problem. But if total nett carb is less than 30g including the berries, are they cool? They just make eating a ton of walnuts more edible.

4254

[quote]raviraj wrote:

very intresting articles hope every one reads it . this man has done hid phd in lowcarb high fat world and is following this theory for last 40 years. his site also has some amzing articles on how we r fooled by the media and medical establisment also sometimes for there own intrest.[/quote]

I have read that site extensively as a matter of fact. He references the AD there too.

4255

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
raviraj wrote:

very intresting articles hope every one reads it . this man has done hid phd in lowcarb high fat world and is following this theory for last 40 years. his site also has some amzing articles on how we r fooled by the media and medical establisment also sometimes for there own intrest.

I have read that site extensively as a matter of fact. He references the AD there too.

[/quote]

what i like in u is ur no nonsense and detailed approach people like u are really very helpfull for this thread

4256

[quote]whitebobo wrote:
Before I post, I have read the first 100 pages of this thread and the e-book and made an e-book of my own by copying and pasting valuable snippets.

Just ONE question:
60g blueberries and 30g raspberries daily…aye or nay? I ask in case they have some kind of crazy insulin spiking problem. But if total nett carb is less than 30g including the berries, are they cool? They just make eating a ton of walnuts more edible.[/quote]

You may be able to have your berries and stay below 30gr…
However I doubt the carb to fiber ratio is a good trade-off -especially if you’re in the induction phase.

You would be much better off ‘biting the bullet’ for now and saving the berries for the carb-load.

Ideally, you should concentrate on getting plenty of green veggies to neutralize the acid from the FFA’s you’re burning.

Get yourself adapted. There will come a time when you don’t have to be so rigidly disciplined…but for now, put in the time and follow the plan.

You won’t be sorry.

:wink:

peace

4257

Thanks my guy

I should have mentioned I am on day 4. I thought berries fibre/carb ratio might be uncool. I will get rid of them tomorrow.

Otherwise I am getting the greens in me. Broccoli, spinach, lettuce, zuchinni and cucumber in unsettling amounts - all drizzled with half a bottle of olive oil. I find I don’t even need a fibre supp…shitting twice daily.

4258

fixed my weight dilemma…i know it sounds bad but im getting my nutrients…im eating a 6 egg breakfast and have liquid meals till my last meal where i have another 6 eggs…cant wait till this weekend is over then i dont have to suck weight ever again

4259

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Well, I started logging everything on fitday and I don’t understand how you guys say veggies don’t add up. Just 2 cups of cucumbers…4 carbs, broccoli 1 cup 2 carbs, all of these net. What I’ve tried the last few days is something like this:

2 scoops whey
coffee with cream
handful of nuts

workout (crappy so ate nuts and whey during to get me through)

chicken - 6 oz
cheese - 1 oz

5 eggs with 2 yolks
1 oz cheese
1 cup bell pepper chopped

nuts
few eggs

then started the feeling crappiness…had a red bell pepper, tea with cream, a cup of cucumber

later woke up and couldn’t sleep =

ate broccoli, protein pudding *4 carbs(, cucmber, and red pepper

All this added up to 60 net carbs…totally screwed up. I’ve eaten about 2000 extra cals in the last 2 days since fats have replaced all my veggies.

Prior I was NOT eating a lot of carbs at all - I was eating only a LOT of green veggies and a bit of onion and a lot of protein. I was satisfied at 1600 cals. Now I am shaky at 2200. I’m absolutely freaked to try to go off the diet now though since I have gained probably a pound of FAT in the last 2 days.

I am totally upset and berating myself for leaving my previous lower carb but healthy diet. Now I’ve screwed up my body…I should be thinner due to water loss but I’ve gotten FAT as HELL in the last 2 days. I’m really freaked and don’t really know what I should do…advice???

The diet said it was okay to gain fat at first since your body will lose it…but where my metabolism it at it will NOT lose any of this stuff I’ve gained and futhermore I’m injured so I can’t just go exercise it off. I’m really really upset. I think everything has gone horribly wrong…

[/quote]
sarah, while on the 12-day induction, just concentrate on making it through. really. 12 days of excess cals isn’t going to do much harm. plus, what you’ve had is clean food and not greasy burgers and sausages and bacon.

after the 12-day induction, your body will get more and more efficient at using bodyfat and you will, like many of the posters here have testified, be able to witness this efficiency yourself.

about feeling crappy, everyone’s body reacts differently and most people feel crappy at some point in the 12-day. mine started on the 4th.

just hang in there for a few more days. you’ve already come this far. you’ve got nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain if you finish the induction.

4260

in response to my own post…should i just wait till get to minimum weight…i just need to lose 8 lbs and im getting my fats in thru eggs oil and cream and diced nuts in the drink…and of course plenty of protein and fiber…so does it matter if most my intake s liquid form (with some solid form…nuts) as long as i keep up my fats?

4261

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

I have read that site extensively as a matter of fact. He references the AD there too.

[/quote]

Tirib, where is there a reference to the AD? It sounds like the good Doc would be against any sort of carb load.

Anyway, back in Korea for a month or two. I quit drinking for the better part of a month - maybe a beer or two once a week, and I have to say - from experience… drinking fucks with any type diet you intake. I lost a few pounds eating more than ever; much fewer, if any, cravings for carbs; much stronger and much more stamina in my intense workouts.

I’ve been eating an almost zero carb diet ( we don’t count greens, right?) with plenty of fat. Usually with dinner I’ll have a huge serving of broccoli, spinach, or brussel sprouts. On Saturday night, I would have my carb meal, which actually turned out to be ice cream or cheeseburgers with the bun - just to wash down those two beers. But I found myself not wanting to eat that as well.

So since I seem to be leveled out, this coming week I am going to begin an attempt to eat the same ratio’s but reduce the calories by cutting all of my servings in half (or so). I’m sure I’ll get weaker and groggier, but I should blow off that last 10 or 15 lbs in a month or so.

It’s great to see this thread is still going. Sarah, stick with and reap the rewards. Everyone’s recommendations are right on. You’re not experiencing any of the doubts we all had at the beginning. At least you will have the help of the vets that we didn’t have back in '95, so you’ll make many fewer mistakes. Remember, your body is going through changes not unlike a drug addict or alcoholic goes through when coming off. It upsets your system - but to be sure, this is the way we have evolved to eat. Even if I don’t agree with the carb loads, it’s still a way of eating that is, IMO, 85% accurate.

-SK