Yes, ME and DE are both after maximal MU recruitment from two different angles. The supplemental/accessory work in WS is based on maximizing protein degradation while simutaneously minimizing CNS fatigue. To be more specific, one is actually increasing the size of existing fibers with the hypertrophy work. Hyperplasia, while technically possible is not often seen unless extreme loading parametes are involved. You grow with the submaximal effort work and then improve rate coding, synchronization, MU recruitment with the ME and DE work.
DE, while allowing high recruitment also uses improved speed strength to increase bar velocity to generate power to provide gas through the sticking points. This all feeds back into itself to create a very efficient model. There is an old example that gives a good visual on this. If water represents strength and your hypertrophy level is represented by an 8oz drinking glass, then your job is to fill it up to it’s potential. This is done via ME and DE work. Then once you maximize fiber potential at this “size” you grow yourself into a 10oz glass and start all over. Very simplistic but it gets the gist of it.
You create muscle tissue, then you learn to maximally activate it. The cyclical process makes Johnny become a bigger/stronger boy. Westside does it all at once via conjugation instead of a linear model that is extrememly dated and inefficient.
DH
No slappin’ for Massif.
[quote]Massif wrote:
vasudeva wrote:
I don’t really disagree. Neural adaption does equate to an increase in strength. ME movements will improve neural efficiency. So, over time, strength will increase. However, muscle size does not equate to neural efficiency. In my experience, ME movements do not induce hypertrophy. With the conjugate approach, it is the accessory work that has the most potential for hypertrophy.
My understanding is that the ME and DE work recruits more muscle fibres, and the assistance work builds new muscle fibres for the ME and DE work to recruit. That’s why for WS4SB, Defranco replaces the DE day with a preference for a higher rep day in an effort to build more muscle fibres.
You build new muscle then your body recruits it into your lifts. If this is wrong, somebody please smack me…[/quote]
Vas,
See how you do first. I’ve found that I’m strong on my low carb days no matter where they are situated. Even when I think I’m feeling a bit nappy. Get a good warmup first on your Wednesday ME day. Without the “cushion” of the glycogen and water from the load, I feel a bit more stiff. Again, get a good warmup but do so with low reps. I was surprised to find that even though I started a bit “off” that I actually was quite strong on Wednesdays. It’s the high rep stuff that’ll bust your chops toward thurs and fri. Your glyco levels are low and these HR workouts rely on just that. Not that you can’t do them at this point, it’s just that you may not do as well as you would with heavier weight and lowered reps.
For example on Waterbury’s TBT I make a slight change that in no way alters the principles of the program. I simply move the higher rep day to monday and the rest as follows:
Sat evening (Low rep day using 5 reps)
Mon evening (high reps using 15 reps)
Wed evening (moderate reps…8 reps)
This also affords me opportunity to utilize Bill Starr’s heavy, light, medium schedule that I’ve always done well with. Perfect.
Now, as with much on the AD, you’ll want to experiment. Some may be just fine doing high rep work later in the week. Depends on how glycogen stingy your body is.
Should you find that you are CERTAIN that you cannot do well, then I’d suggest hitting some CHO in the way of a pre workout shake with maybe 40-50g CHO and some protein. Say 30 minutes prior to the workout. Again, if this is not necessary then you’re all the better. Also, some do better with a slow releasing CHO like oatmeal before the workout. Avoid a crash or the “squirts” that can sometimes hit you with a rapid release CHO drink.
[quote]Arctos wrote:
OK, I think I missed a day at acronym school. I have a few guesses, but does anyone care to tell me exactly what ME and DE represent?[/quote]
The only real concern you have w/any caloric deficit is T3 decreases. ECA is fine but you pay in the end…
HOT-ROX by nature of “on site” thyroid elevation would, in theory, be primo on the AD cutting cycle.
My 2 bits.
Best,
DH
[quote]ruglayer09052000 wrote:
I’d be interested to see how HOT-ROX would do on a cutting cycle of the AD. With this additional insurance against T3 decreases you’d be rockin’ and rollin’.
All in all I’d say go for it.
best,
DH
Actually, I use E/C/A while I cut down, but was thinking of trying either HOT-ROX or lean system 7. I CAN get lean SYStem 7 for 19.95 a bottle.[/quote]
I’m starting to see the benefits of the adaptation. I’m most vascular on Wednesday and Thursday. I’m recovering better. I get sore faster but so far have recovered a full two to three days faster. I seriously feel like, I would imagine, being on gear to feel. I’m three weeks in and have visibily lost fat. My ass is smaller and the love handles are gone.
People are commenting that I’m “blowing up” but it is the illusion of fat loss. My weight has come back up and I’m only 3 pounds down versus 8 pounds down. So LBM is already increasing. I plan to eat somewhat moderately during the locarb phases and bump the cals up to the 10,000 to 15,000 range during the carb up days.
From the book this seems to be the approach that may work best for me. I’ll be experimenting the whole way through until I “dial in.” I’m going to post new measurements so that my progress in that area is tracked. I’m anticipating that they will be very similar except waist and hip measurements.
I’m looking forward to Sunday’s Strongman training and I am thinking of doing four days a week now instead of just three. I needed to drop to three before for sufficient recovery. Sunday’s are a bitch, harder than the comps. Felt very strong Tuesday and we will see how I feel today. I plan to do some moderatly heavy high total rep sumo squats today. Bring up the weaknesses!
[quote]mdragon wrote:
I’m starting to see the benefits of the adaptation. I’m most vascular on Wednesday and Thursday. I’m recovering better. I get sore faster but so far have recovered a full two to three days faster. I seriously feel like, I would imagine, being on gear to feel. I’m three weeks in and have visibily lost fat. My ass is smaller and the love handles are gone.
People are commenting that I’m “blowing up” but it is the illusion of fat loss. My weight has come back up and I’m only 3 pounds down versus 8 pounds down. So LBM is already increasing. I plan to eat somewhat moderately during the locarb phases and bump the cals up to the 10,000 to 15,000 range during the carb up days.
From the book this seems to be the approach that may work best for me. I’ll be experimenting the whole way through until I “dial in.” I’m going to post new measurements so that my progress in that area is tracked. I’m anticipating that they will be very similar except waist and hip measurements.
I’m looking forward to Sunday’s Strongman training and I am thinking of doing four days a week now instead of just three. I needed to drop to three before for sufficient recovery. Sunday’s are a bitch, harder than the comps. Felt very strong Tuesday and we will see how I feel today. I plan to do some moderatly heavy high total rep sumo squats today. Bring up the weaknesses![/quote]
Just an observation I made as I’m on day 10 of the break in. My muscles feel kinda soggy, like if I flex they aren’t as rock hard as normal. Is this a good thing, does it mean they are carb depleted and all? I’m guessing that when the carb load goes in it gives you an insane pump, so the reverse would be true. My energy has planed out versus the beginning of the week and end of last week. Not really any more ups or downs, going to play 18 holes in a bit out in the heat, so it will be a good test as to if i’m still carb crashing.
I’m currently on day 4 of the diet and the strangest thing has been the balancing out of my moods, just generally felt “good” this last week.
Following on to my earlier questions, I found that I’ve spent just about 30% more on shopping that usual, but that is largely due to eating sirloin steak, spinach salad and cheese every lunchtime
Overall however, I found I was feeling slightly sluggish doing my box squats last night, but by the end I felt great.
Strangely I’ve also put on 4 pounds (and not due to a lack of fibre), possibly due to replacing my protein shakes with real meat perhaps?
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Just an observation I made as I’m on day 10 of the break in. My muscles feel kinda soggy, like if I flex they aren’t as rock hard as normal. Is this a good thing, does it mean they are carb depleted and all? I’m guessing that when the carb load goes in it gives you an insane pump, so the reverse would be true. My energy has planed out versus the beginning of the week and end of last week. Not really any more ups or downs, going to play 18 holes in a bit out in the heat, so it will be a good test as to if i’m still carb crashing.
V[/quote]
You are on track Veg. It is pretty common to feel ‘flat’ on the lo carb days on this diet. It will be like this for quite awhile. Sometime down the line the body seems to adapt and the fullness from the carb loads carries through the week or at least most of the week. Later on you can experiment with the mid week carb spike. If your system can handle it this works great. You basically eat 1 or 2 high carb meals on Wednesday.
Plan your training accordingly. Get ready for a great pump. Like mdragon says: almost like the gear. As an AD vet, my workouts even on lo carb days produce great ‘pumps’. In the past I have used the midweek carb spike with great results. During that time though I was getting alot of cardio and I would use the carb meals to fuel the cardio sessions because they were 45 minutes of intense cardio (spin instructor). Take plenty of water on the course, 'course you know that. Yea, I think you have it.
[quote]Joe Daley wrote:
I’m currently on day 4 of the diet and the strangest thing has been the balancing out of my moods, just generally felt “good” this last week.
Following on to my earlier questions, I found that I’ve spent just about 30% more on shopping that usual, but that is largely due to eating sirloin steak, spinach salad and cheese every lunchtime
Overall however, I found I was feeling slightly sluggish doing my box squats last night, but by the end I felt great.
Strangely I’ve also put on 4 pounds (and not due to a lack of fibre), possibly due to replacing my protein shakes with real meat perhaps?
[/quote]
Iron Maiden! I saw Iron Maiden in concert back in the day. Rock on Joe. The AD is great for energy and a sense of ‘Well being’. Maybe we feel in harmony with our hunter/warrior innerselves when consuming vast amounts of dead animals. Or, more likely, it’s the positive effects of increased Test and GH production. You will feel sluggish at first especially on the big exercises: squats, deads. Your body has been using carbs up till now and doesn’t yet know how to use the new fuel. You may have a real crash and just suck in the gym. Don’t sweat it. In due time your strength will come back and grow.
Did you receive my query regarding Mauro’s plan vs Faigins for both gaining and cutting?
I had posted it earlier in this thread, as well as I PM’d you.
Sorry about being so persistent, its just that Faigin makes a very compelling argument for a more frequent (albeit shorter) refeed schedule.
(Reminiscent of the Beverly plan, isn’t it?)
I know you’re well versed in both, I just wanted to hear your opinion.
Have a left over tub of Designer Whey and it says that it has a total of 2 carbs per serving. Does anyone by chance know if this is the actual amount? Thanks
Today is day 11 for me. Getting ready for the first carb-up this weekend. Man, I just got back from the gym and I am draggin’. It seems like these last few days my recovery has been shit, like I’m really beat for a few hours right after I come back from the gym. Is this the “crash”? It doesn’t really feel like a sudden crash, more like a graduall wearing down of my strength and recovery.
[quote]Charles Atlas wrote:
Today is day 11 for me. Getting ready for the first carb-up this weekend. Man, I just got back from the gym and I am draggin’. It seems like these last few days my recovery has been shit, like I’m really beat for a few hours right after I come back from the gym. Is this the “crash”? It doesn’t really feel like a sudden crash, more like a graduall wearing down of my strength and recovery. [/quote]
This is how I felt before my carb up. It didn’t really hit hard, but I could tell I wasn’t myself. Carb up will be a nice change in pace, but you will probably be ready for some fatty meals come Sunday afternoon.
That sounds correct for WPC with no flavors, etc. Mine has 1.5g/serving.
[quote]njstomp wrote:
Have a left over tub of Designer Whey and it says that it has a total of 2 carbs per serving. Does anyone by chance know if this is the actual amount? Thanks[/quote]
I have been drinking a shake after I train and before bed on non-traing days. 2 scoops of Grow!, 8 tablespoons of Heavy Cream, and two tablespoons of olive oil. The taste is outstanding and it has around 900 kcal. This has got to be one of the ultimate Mass gainer shakes, and it has quality kcal not cheap sugars. Damn if I keep eating like I have been I’ll be 250 with 20" arms in no time
[quote]Charles Atlas wrote:
Today is day 11 for me. Getting ready for the first carb-up this weekend. Man, I just got back from the gym and I am draggin’. It seems like these last few days my recovery has been shit, like I’m really beat for a few hours right after I come back from the gym. Is this the “crash”? It doesn’t really feel like a sudden crash, more like a graduall wearing down of my strength and recovery. [/quote]
That is the “crash” big dogg. For me the next week is a total diff. animal. My workout on Sunday and Tuesday were great and the recovery is fast. I got sorererer faster but I recovered quicker.
[quote]Joebob wrote:
This is how I felt before my carb up. It didn’t really hit hard, but I could tell I wasn’t myself. Carb up will be a nice change in pace, but you will probably be ready for some fatty meals come Sunday afternoon.[/quote]
Thanks JB, good to know I’m not the only one without a single “crash”. For awhile there I was thinking that I must have eaten too many carbs or something, because I hadn’t seen anything drastic.
I’ve only done two carb ups, so I don’t have alot to base this on, but so far I’m noticing the opposite of some others: I feel harder than normal, not flat at all, especially in my arms. On the other hand, when I load, I spill over instantly and look puffy all day. What gives? Is this in and of itself a bad thing if it doesn’t affect results otherwise or is it indicative of a problem that needs fixin?
I have changed up my training a little bit and am slowly creeping my weights up in the squat and rack pull, so that may very well have something to do with it.
Oh, and I was also hungry as hell today. I’ve already had my crash weeks ago, but I was just hungry. I had to add a bunch of bacon and breakfast sausage to kill my appetite today. I work nights and I’m trying to cut, so I added a half dose of Hot-Rox before work last night, I think that may explain it…
