Thanks Arctos, I was worried that I was getting hit with hidden carbs and ruining my diet. Gonna go with Low carb grow next time. Everyone on here keeps talking about how good it is with some olive oil added.
[quote]conorh wrote:
I’ve only done two carb ups, so I don’t have alot to base this on, but so far I’m noticing the opposite of some others: I feel harder than normal, not flat at all, especially in my arms. On the other hand, when I load, I spill over instantly and look puffy all day. What gives?[/quote] you probably just ate too many carbs, or too fast…there are many things that become useful when carbing up, if you hate bloating as much as I do. one thing i’ve always used and helps is some vinegar(apple cider IMO), just take 2 tablespoons for every 100 grams of CHO you take in, at least thats the rule of thumb ive used. you can also buy some R-ALA(or ALA, but the former is preferable) and other minor glucose disposal agents like magnesium and VSulfate.[quote]conorh wrote:
Is this in and of itself a bad thing if it doesn’t affect results otherwise or is it indicative of a problem that needs fixin?[/quote]
i dunno. it considers what you mean by puffy. a slight “puff” is normal, in my experience, my veins get covered up a little it seems, but if they become as visible as they were prior to the carb up, its a good sign, and means there wasnt much(enough to worry about) spillover.[quote]conorh wrote:
Oh, and I was also hungry as hell today. I’ve already had my crash weeks ago, but I was just hungry. I had to add a bunch of bacon and breakfast sausage to kill my appetite today. I work nights and I’m trying to cut, so I added a half dose of Hot-Rox before work last night, I think that may explain it…[/quote]
as much as DH might disagree, i think there are much better ways to solve [I]cravings[/] notice there is a difference between a craving and real hunger. if it is within 30 minutes of your next planned time to eat, just go ahead and eat. but if it is just like you want something in your mouth, well here is what i do in that situation–
-sugar free jell-o, 5 cals(from pro too only) just buy like 10 containers at the start of the week, make a hugeass bowl, enough for 2-3 days, and eat it whenever. it takes so long for this to add up. and don’t worry about it spiking insulin or w/e the fuck it is people use to try and convince you that SUGAR FREE jello is bad. bah
-sugar free gum. i like wintermint extra
-lots of fucking water. whenever i enter the kitchen i chug 16 oz, even if i just drank something.
-go for a walk, hey its relaxing, will burn some cals, and it will prob get your mind off food if you just take in your surroundings or some hippy bs like that, hah.
#1: Make sure that you are loading with slow quality carbos with only a few treats. Some are just sensitive. See how this works first.
Now, you may want to try one of three options:
Option 1:
A 6day/1day cycle. Self explanatory.
Option 2:
Or (to address a previous post too) the Faigin plan. Some do better on shorter abbreviated loads.
Wednesday evening: Last meal 150g CHO minimum up to last two meals for a grand total of 500g CHO for larger men. Each one being 200-250 or so to fill up the glycogen levels of a male with plenty of muscle.
Saturday evening: Same as Wednesday.
It is of the utmost importance to make these the last meal(s) of the day to avoid any long insulin surges throughout the day when you eat pro and fat. Putting all together in a short cycle is a recipe for fatness.
You do a 3day/4day cycle each week.
Every third of fourth day you have a mini-load, go to bed a few hours later and then resume low carbing.
Option 3:
Do a wednesday carb spike (last meal or evening post workout) of about 200g CHO, then do a 12 hour high quality load on Saturday. 8am - 8pm, for what amounts to a full load day.
Important NOTE TO ALL:
Once you give the standard AD a full 2-3 months, the give one of the above a shot IF and only IF you need to. You must be observant and systematic so that you leave yourself a back trail to compare one to the other. I do so well on fats (and most do even according to Charles Poliquin who follows Doc’s rationale with the majority of his athletes) and don’t need to alter the overall scheme. DONT unless you are certain you need to, not just go belly up and convince yourself you need to.
Faigin’s main gripe with the AD, although he holds Doc D in very high regard, is that Doc D never really specified what types of CHO to use. But Doc says that is up to you. You’ll figure out that snack cakes and tubs of ice cream smooth you out quicker than taters and pasta. Experiment. So Faigin while being technically accurate on this one critique doesn’t make good argument overall. Doc says figure it out on your own, Rob says just go quality carbs. Both come to the same end sooner or later.
His second critique was duration. But recent studies have shown that an adapted fat burner continues to burn fat for at least 24 hours of loading. Rob was uncertain how far it could be pushed. Now these type of recommendations work well for the general public, but we lifters are able to surmise the effects on our own bodies with a better understanding. I’ve found 36 hours to be great. Doc has found that at least 24 hours of the load are still “fat burning” so you are storing all that CHO. Rob was just unsure of this info at the time of his writing.
Both are great guys with great books. You’d never need another variation in your life if you owned both.
Faigins is Natural Hormonal Enhancement. Interested parties can do a search.
best,
DH
BTW, it does mimic Beverly’s load timing, but Faigin wrote his in 99 and Jay Robb wrote in 95 or so. Faigin goes low carb but Beverly goes 20% CHO. I find this too high to get proper glycogen depletion for the supercompensation load. A Beverly diet, as Poliquin states, is for those who are carb burners by nature. He surmises about 20% of his athletes fall in this range. The majority do well on cyclical higher fat diets.
And for a history lesson, they all got their info on a 3/4 cycle from Vince Gironda. VG was right again. 
Gentlemen, meet your distant cousins:
Beverly: 50P/30F/20CHO 3/4 load cycle
Jay Robb: (exactly the same)
Faigin: Anabolic Diet on 3/4 load cycle
Vince Gironda: (exactly the same )
Charles Poliquin: (basically the same)
And for good measure, Will Brink and Bill Starr both advocate taking in about 1g/lb of bodyweight of CHO for lifters/athletes. Most are surprised that Starr did this as he worked with football players. Just shows that CHO are not as important as widely believed.
We are in good company guys, no matter how much “the world” whines and argues.
Best,
DH
[quote]conorh wrote:
I’ve only done two carb ups, so I don’t have alot to base this on, but so far I’m noticing the opposite of some others: I feel harder than normal, not flat at all, especially in my arms. On the other hand, when I load, I spill over instantly and look puffy all day. What gives? Is this in and of itself a bad thing if it doesn’t affect results otherwise or is it indicative of a problem that needs fixin?
I have changed up my training a little bit and am slowly creeping my weights up in the squat and rack pull, so that may very well have something to do with it.
Oh, and I was also hungry as hell today. I’ve already had my crash weeks ago, but I was just hungry. I had to add a bunch of bacon and breakfast sausage to kill my appetite today. I work nights and I’m trying to cut, so I added a half dose of Hot-Rox before work last night, I think that may explain it…[/quote]
OH YEAH, baby! I’m feeling like doing a mass cycle after hearing Mdrag’s excitement. It’s contagious.
Great job, bro!
DH
[quote]mdragon wrote:
I’m starting to see the benefits of the adaptation. I’m most vascular on Wednesday and Thursday. I’m recovering better. I get sore faster but so far have recovered a full two to three days faster. I seriously feel like, I would imagine, being on gear to feel. I’m three weeks in and have visibily lost fat. My ass is smaller and the love handles are gone.
People are commenting that I’m “blowing up” but it is the illusion of fat loss. My weight has come back up and I’m only 3 pounds down versus 8 pounds down. So LBM is already increasing. I plan to eat somewhat moderately during the locarb phases and bump the cals up to the 10,000 to 15,000 range during the carb up days.
From the book this seems to be the approach that may work best for me. I’ll be experimenting the whole way through until I “dial in.” I’m going to post new measurements so that my progress in that area is tracked. I’m anticipating that they will be very similar except waist and hip measurements.
I’m looking forward to Sunday’s Strongman training and I am thinking of doing four days a week now instead of just three. I needed to drop to three before for sufficient recovery. Sunday’s are a bitch, harder than the comps. Felt very strong Tuesday and we will see how I feel today. I plan to do some moderatly heavy high total rep sumo squats today. Bring up the weaknesses![/quote]
hhhmmm (clearing throat)
DH Approves!
O70, good advice. Don’t ever go hungry. Spread those calories around. 10 smaller meals if necessary. Rumor has it the 5-HTP also helps with hormonal cravings. Once you fully adapt, the cravings are few and far between.
One thing though. I’m not too crazy about using VS throughout the load. By artifically creating a competition for insulin we blunt some of the power of the load. Also, VS has been implicated in being non-specific with respect to glucose disposal. Meaning fat or muscle, it all gets fed by VS. I prefer to use it very infrequently and don’t use it much at all anymore. I’d suggest varying load durations and CHO quaity instead.
Best,
DH
Sugar free jello rocks. With real Cool Whip that is!
I’m gonna dig up some recipes. Good grief I’m Martha Stewart. Oh well at least she’s been in the slammer. Had to boost T levels.
[quote]Owen70 wrote:
conorh wrote:
I’ve only done two carb ups, so I don’t have alot to base this on, but so far I’m noticing the opposite of some others: I feel harder than normal, not flat at all, especially in my arms. On the other hand, when I load, I spill over instantly and look puffy all day. What gives? you probably just ate too many carbs, or too fast…there are many things that become useful when carbing up, if you hate bloating as much as I do. one thing i’ve always used and helps is some vinegar(apple cider IMO), just take 2 tablespoons for every 100 grams of CHO you take in, at least thats the rule of thumb ive used. you can also buy some R-ALA(or ALA, but the former is preferable) and other minor glucose disposal agents like magnesium and VSulfate.conorh wrote:
Is this in and of itself a bad thing if it doesn’t affect results otherwise or is it indicative of a problem that needs fixin?
i dunno. it considers what you mean by puffy. a slight “puff” is normal, in my experience, my veins get covered up a little it seems, but if they become as visible as they were prior to the carb up, its a good sign, and means there wasnt much(enough to worry about) spillover.conorh wrote:
Oh, and I was also hungry as hell today. I’ve already had my crash weeks ago, but I was just hungry. I had to add a bunch of bacon and breakfast sausage to kill my appetite today. I work nights and I’m trying to cut, so I added a half dose of Hot-Rox before work last night, I think that may explain it…
as much as DH might disagree, i think there are much better ways to solve [I]cravings[/] notice there is a difference between a craving and real hunger. if it is within 30 minutes of your next planned time to eat, just go ahead and eat. but if it is just like you want something in your mouth, well here is what i do in that situation–
-sugar free jell-o, 5 cals(from pro too only) just buy like 10 containers at the start of the week, make a hugeass bowl, enough for 2-3 days, and eat it whenever. it takes so long for this to add up. and don’t worry about it spiking insulin or w/e the fuck it is people use to try and convince you that SUGAR FREE jello is bad. bah
-sugar free gum. i like wintermint extra
-lots of fucking water. whenever i enter the kitchen i chug 16 oz, even if i just drank something.
-go for a walk, hey its relaxing, will burn some cals, and it will prob get your mind off food if you just take in your surroundings or some hippy bs like that, hah.[/quote]
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
OH YEAH, baby! I’m feeling like doing a mass cycle after hearing Mdrag’s excitement. It’s contagious.
Great job, bro!
DH
[/quote]
Just thought I would let you guys know that if you want to maximize your time in the gym, the way to go is Body by Jake’s Cardio Cruiser! I mean, once you get on, it’ll be the ride of your life!!!
If you wanna eat healthy and pump iron for 4-7 hours a week, good luck. Me, I would rather eat my Zinger’s and Nesquik, with only 1 hour on the Cruiser evenly divided 3 times per week.
Dr. D, eat your heart out. I’m gonna follow Jake! ;o)
-BD
DH, in an above posts you just mentioned many of the CKDs (cyclical-keto-diets.) But, you left out Lyle’s ultimate diet 2.0…I would really like to hear why, not trying to start shit, I just want a reason for not doing it instead of the anabolic diet.
O70,
Check out Dr. Di’s interviews linked in the thread earlier. Doc Di very much dislikes this being called a CKD. This shows that many don’t understand the true adaptation/purposes of the diet. As for Mac, well I’ll make it short and sweet as this isn’t something personal. For the most part, his book constantly missed the big picture. He never realized that the anabolic aspect of this diet was not all about the glycogen supercompensation (much like Duchaine), entirely missed the anabolic nature of the AD struture, never considered the anticatabolic nature of this cycle, constantly advocated this as a diet to use infrequently because one “needs” CHO, held to the antiquated belief that the brain needs CHO to function, never made any significant personal progress, and generally proclaimed himself “Lord of the Dance” in the low carb dieting world, despite never breaking 170lbs. His is a story of close but no cigar. I sold his book after I got it. That sums up my thoughts on his thoughts. His credentials and accomplishments are nowhere near DiPasquale’s.
DH
[quote]Owen70 wrote:
DH, in an above posts you just mentioned many of the CKDs (cyclical-keto-diets.) But, you left out Lyle’s ultimate diet 2.0…I would really like to hear why, not trying to start shit, I just want a reason for not doing it instead of the anabolic diet.
[/quote]
Yesterday was day 11. I was blah by the late afternoon. A nap helped. Today, so far, much better. Update later. Taking the kids to Lakeport to go to the beach.
DH,
Meant to ask you, where are you from?
[quote]ruglayer09052000 wrote:
DH,
Meant to ask you, where are you from?[/quote]
Hey Rug, you better not be trying to move in on my man, he’s mine!
Day 11 huh? Good job! Keep it up - once your into the 3rd and 4th week you are golden. Have you been fantasizing about day 13 yet?
-BD
I’m your southern neighbor.
DH
BookemD is pretty jealous so I’ll keep it at that…
Weirdo. (BD that is)
[quote]ruglayer09052000 wrote:
DH,
Meant to ask you, where are you from?[/quote]
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
BookemD is pretty jealous so I’ll keep it at that…
Weirdo. (BD that is)
[/quote]
Jealous and weird, but not misguided. I know where your true loyalties lie! ;o)
Quick update including some mild gloating and tooting of my own horn. My 18 hole round yesterday went amazing. I had smooth energy all day long , I even packed a few beef sticks in the bag to keep me stable. Well now, yesterday was the first full day where I felt great throughout the whole day. I can’t really explain the energy state I was in but it is far superior to what I previously existed in. As a very nice result, I was able to focus yesterday like nothing I have ever done before. I shot my best round for 18 holes ever with a 75. It was on my home course which is a pretty tough track by any good golfers standards.
I was just blown away by how steady I was all day long. Just complete comfort, my brain was just firing great all day long. All the swing keys that I work on were called up each and every time I got over the ball with only a handful of exceptions. So in any event, I really think that at least a good portion of the success of the day was due to the AD and I might just be a convert for life.
V
Keep it up Veg. I shot a 64 yesterday, then I played the back nine! ;o)
-BD
Hey lets get some good recipes up here from fellow ADers. I put a few recipes together in the last week and I was wondering if you guys have any input in them. I don’t think I am hitting any hidden carbs but input is always appreciated.
#1 Turkey roll ups
1 slice of Boars Head Pepper Mill turkey
2 strips Bacon
1 tsp Mayo
5-6 baby spinach leaves
These things are great little snacks. Take the turkey, spread the mayo across it, Lay the bacon strips on when they are still hot and slightly pliable, cover with the spinach leaves and roll up. Try not to let the bacon get too crisp or it just falls apart, and also make sure everything is in order so the bacon stays hot as you roll. Once it cools it helps hold the wrap together.
#2 Thai ground beef
2lbs 90% lean ground beef
1/2 cup Natural Peanut Butter
2 tbsp Sirancha Chili Sauce
2 tbsp Butter
2 tbsp Olive Oil
1 tsp salt
1 tsp garlic powder
1 tsp onion poder
1 tbsp dried thyme
1 tbsp dried basil
1-2 tbsp Balsamic Vinagar
Brown the meat in a large skillet, either add in the dried spices from the start or drain the fat and then add them. I left in the fat, I like it. Once the dried spices are added, put in the butter, olive oil, and PB. Drop the heat to low until the last three are incorporated. Add in the sirancha and just as that mixes in add the balsamic just before you pull it. You don’t want too much of it to evaporate. I like to eat this just as it is, but it is also good over baby spinach and would actually be really good over nachos. Add or subtract to taste or heat preferences. Also watch the ammount of PB and Balsamic since thier are carbs in both of them.
Let me know what you think, I would love any input on changes or if I am over doing the carbs.
Welcome to the AD, V…
I too noticed high focus and energy. Not crazy energy but constant energy.
DH
I should clarify to Owen70, that the book in question was Lyle’s “Ketogenic Diet: A complete guide for the dieter and practicioner”. His “opus”. I’ve not bothered to hustle my wallet out of any more green for McDonald’s stuff.
At least it was better than his bromocriptine “book”.
DH
A simple but tasty recipe/idea:
Take cauliflour and “mash” it to your liking and then add butter and cheese to use as a substitute for mashed potatoes.
DH
Well, I think I’ve gotten over the hump. At least that’s what I’m going to tell myself. Sleep returned to normal last night, which I have discovered is my main indicator of the crash. Today is day 12, looking forward to a nice big bowl of oat bran and frozen berries tommorow! MMMMM. Whole lotta fruit, maybe a whole wheat tortilla or two. Okay, calm…calm…
I’ve been noticing that every day, the buzz I catch from my one cup of coffee lasts longer and longer. Dr. D mentions this in his AD, that fat burners have an improved reaction to caffeine. I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this effect?