My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
341

[quote]Owen70 wrote:
Disc Hoss and Il Cazzo:
i’m just wondering, what is the lowest bodyfat you have ever achieved on this diet.

I realize that it may not be your goal to even get below whatever 12%, but it is important I think when you discuss this topic.

If neither of you has taken this diet to get yourself below 15%, then many of these posters need to realize than damned near any approach(well any healthy one…) will get you to 15%. Of course the “fun” involved with getting to 15% maybe be less so on a more traditional approach, it could very well be more healthy.

I have an incredibly hard time believing that either of yours blood pressure/lipid profile/etc etc. improved MORE SO than with a more traditional(less fat, more “good” carbs) approach. I cannot believe at this point that by eating what many of the sample diets listed on this thread include my blood pressure wouldnt skyrocket. At no body fat is the consumption of a pound of beef jerky and 12 eggs(yolks included) healthy. This diet (for some, not all of course) is just helping to reinforce shitty eating habits that existed before going on this “diet.”

I guess my points can be said You can get to 15% in a much healthier fashion, AND stay near there with a more traditional(40/30/30 or whatever) approach.

P.S. dont start flaming my ass because you think I’m some prick teenager who has “only” been involved with weightlifting for 2 weeks. I have been lifting(deadlifts,squats,benches,chins, etc.") for over 2 years now, and right now I am sitting at about 200 lbs and 11% BF, and trust me, my BF setpoint is much higher ~16%.

Anyways, awesome job helping these people regardless guys.[/quote]

If you don’t heed the advice already given I’d ask you to find a new thread. I’m not interested in a pissing contest about who know what. We believe in the diet, we are learning. If you don’t want to be an ass then mind your own damn business. If you want to learn then read the whole thread and if you have already done that buy the book as was suggested by DH and Massif. Otherwise let us play in our sand box in peace.

BTW there are some big strong m’fers on this thread who probably have a hell of a lot more experience. I myself asked for my first weights at 8 years old and have enjoyed training every since. DH has 20 inch arms, IL Cazzo lifts fucking boulders. I for one know that I am very interested in health and would not do anything to jeapordize it. I read a lot of scientific liturature and the studies supporting this diet are well documented.

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Experienced AD’ers,

Some weeks I travel extensively for my job. What have you found to be the best carry around snacks during the week? I am thinking beef jerky and nuts have to be the best. Any other suggestions or tips? Does anybody else have a similar work related travel challenge?

Thanks in advance.

-reddman

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Thanks mozhne, I think i might hold out for the 12 days and just suffer through July 4th with no beer. That sux. Is it possible that I have already dropped weight. This is only the 3rd day and my pants already feel a little looser.

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–Typically 100/60. Never higher than 120/80.

–Never measured my bf…Don’t care. If I’m lean and can lift alot, thats fine.
–Never once had a bad blood profile on this diet…which has been about 7 years.

–So go do that, what the fuck are you mucking up this thread for?

–Wow, 2 years? I’ve been on the diet for almost 4x’s as long as you’ve been training.

–Don’t brag about being 200, I have friends who don’t lift and weigh 200.

–I love when guys justify their bs with shit like this, “don’t think I’m some punk, I’ve been lifting for 2 whole years, on and off, doing deadlifts and squats for 10x3 man. Also, I am 10.09837%BF. And I walk 3 times a week and would be bigger but I dont want a big butt or big legs.”

–I don’t care what your bf is…don’t care if you do squats 23 fuckin times a day. I just don’t care…AT ALL. I have friends who don’t lift who have less than 10% bf. HOO FUCKIN RAY. There are 14 pages of info on the diet in this thread…go read it.

–Awww, the little pissy tone comment to close out your rant. If you don’t like this diet, then go. fuck. yourself. Eat some fuckin rice cakes and faggy, wonderbread WOP pasta you get at the finnoch health food store.

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Folks, IC hit that one clean out of the ball park - shattered the stadium lights baby!

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[quote]Arctos wrote:
Yo Hoss,

I have really appreciated the time you’ve spent posting on this AD thread. I think many of us would also like to know more of your thoughts on training, in addition to diet. How about starting the Hoss Training thread? You have the enviable combination of knowledge, experience, and RESULTS that we respect! We would love to learn more from you. How about it?

I know you have been thinking about it. Just hoping this little bit of encouragement will get you over the edge;)[/quote]

I’d like to second the nomination. I have nothing but thanks and respect for your contributions and accomplishments. Your back and forth with CW on sets/reps/frequency is providing me with some great ideas.

347

I would like some of the long-time users of the AD to speak a bit more about the early refeeds. A couple of us are on Day 10 and are quickly approaching our first refeed.

Dr. D states that we should be consuming 20-40% FAT, 15-30% PRO, and 35-60% CHO during this first refeed. But what sort of overall caloric intake should I be aiming for during the early stages of adaptation to fat as the primary fuel source? Should we maintain the 18 x Bdywt he recommends for this first weekend, or can we jump directly into, for example, a Mass-gaining phase, where he suggest 25 x desired Bdywt? And if opt for the 25, do I drop this to the 18 during the week, or maintain it for the length of desired gain period, and just adjust the macro-nutrient percentages?

And for a bit of clarification… By refeeding, leptin increases and thus stimulates the thyroid, increases GH and testosterone, decreases cortisol and generally improves fat burning, right? Dr. D doesn’t address leptin directly in the AS, but this seems to be the reason for the refeed, right? Or is it more of a total caloric thing?

Thoughts?

348

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
. Eat some fuckin rice cakes and faggy, wonderbread WOP pasta you get at the finnoch health food store. [/quote]

you could’ve left the WOP part out, unless you truly are a Guido, then it’s OK with me piezan

349

Wow! You guys are doing a great job with this thread. I am loving this diet. I am approaching my second carb up and I still don’t crave any junk. Just low carb cheeseburgers and pork rinds with salsa :wink: I haven’t weighed or took bodyfat this week, but who cares. I look leaner, more muscular, and I am stronger in the gym. I can already tell that I am gonna be a lifer.

Joe

350

Boys I’m burnin’ diesel now!

Day 5 here and I’m feelin’ goooood. I hit 320 on the bench this morning, so my strength is not suffering even during the break-in period. I’m taking this as an omen of very good things to come. Looking back, I can see that my crash was on Day 3 - earlier than I expected and harder too - felt absolutely terrible. Now I seem to be adapting well. Onward and upward.

All I’ve got to say is… FAT IS WHERE IT’S AT! DIESEL FUEL RULES!

351

[quote]Massif wrote:

Glad you could pop in with an open mind, Owen. Oh, wait…[/quote]
…uhh?

[quote]Massif wrote:
If you had bothered to read any of the related literature for the AD, AS or MD, you wouldn’t have written that post. You being a teenager doesn’t make you ignorant, your attitude does.[/quote]
How did I come off as an asshole? I made it a point to phrase what I said in a non-offensive manner. Alas it seems you appear to have the attitude problem in your dealing with my post. And please point me to these thousands of studies referenced, of course I imagine 80% of them deal with rats or people who are completely out of the focus population for this diet like the old(>60) or obese. [/quote]

[quote]Massif wrote:
Have you bothered to read the background of the AD? Have you read how diets high in fat and protein, but low in carbs INCREASE good cholesterol but lower bad cholesterol and adipose tissue?[/quote] and what, 40/30/30’s don’t? Of course a person’s adipose tissue and and bad cholesterol levels will go down if they lose weight. Must be a miracle diet.

[quote]Massif wrote:
What about the studies in the AD that show it can lower blood pressure? I guess you read all of this and still decided to be an ass? I don’t think so.
[/quote]see above.

[quote]Massif wrote:
Did you decide to ask a few questions regarding the science that is behind the AD, [/quote] please point out when I did this.

[quote]Massif wrote:
or did you just think that you know better than everyone else on this thread, and know better than nutritional experts who have reviewed the literature it is based on? [/quote] and one of those leading researchers being the man who sold the book. Hmm sounds like a great business plan to try and make your diet look like shit…

[quote]Massif wrote:
So you have been training for a whole two years? AND you weigh 200lbs? You’re right - you are an expert in nutrition. We should definitely take your advice.
[/quote] whatever, i refuse to let this boil down to the other piece of shit message board where everthing turns into “my body is better than yours!”

[quote]Massif wrote:
This diet may not be for everyone, but how about you do some research before proving to everyone what an ignorant twit you really are.[/quote]
Hmmm, sounds exactly like what i said…it will work for some and not for others.

352

Dear Owen,
Why do you have to be such a “Negative Nelly”? Try being a “Positive Pete”.
Love,
Charles.

353

Yeah, I would hate to see this thread turn into an E-Penis size contest. Let’s keep it positive guys.

Thanks a lot, Joe

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Owen,

I believe that they stated the references were in the books associated with the AD. Seems to me you know where to look if you want the information.

With regards to being lean, many bodybuilding cutting diets (among other diets such as the T-Dawg and the off days of Massive Eating Reloaded) have meals consisting of low/reduced carbs. Sounds like the AD. As stated several times in this thread the AD mimics a bodybuilding cycle each week.

The key with the fats increasing blood profiles has to do with the ratios of fats being consumed. The AD vets have repeatedly state to consume olive oil with a passion. This helps to balance your O6:03 ratio (at least that’s my understanding).

And on a final note you claim that you weren’t rude or being an ass in your initial post, but like everyone else I caught that vibe too.

355

As a completely impartial witness who has been enjoying this thread over time, Owen, this is simply not the appropriate thread for your comments. If you want to debate the AD, start a separate thread for that. This thread is for guys that have already decided this is for them and are supporting each other.

Keep up the great work, guys! I got the “Natural Hormonal Enhancement” book DH recommended and am looking forward to reading is asap.

356

[quote]vasudeva wrote:
I would like some of the long-time users of the AD to speak a bit more about the early refeeds. A couple of us are on Day 10 and are quickly approaching our first refeed. [/quote]
i havent done the AD itself, but i have done many a cyclical ketogenic diet like this.

[quote]vasudeva wrote:
Dr. D states that we should be consuming 20-40% FAT, 15-30% PRO, and 35-60% CHO during this first refeed. But what sort of overall caloric intake should I be aiming for during the early stages of adaptation to fat as the primary fuel source? Should we maintain the 18 x Bdywt he recommends for this first weekend, or can we jump directly into, for example, a Mass-gaining phase, where he suggest 25 x desired Bdywt? And if opt for the 25, do I drop this to the 18 during the week, or maintain it for the length of desired gain period, and just adjust the macro-nutrient percentages?
[/quote]
everything is going to depend on your goals, and your body. if you have a slow metabolism you are going to want to hit the low end of that scale. so if you are cutting, and he reccomends 18xBW?? i dunno what the rec is, but aim for the lower end. especially if you really think your endomorph, you may even wanna drop below the levels he suggested. i know this is true for other authors diets i have followed.

[quote]vasudeva wrote:
And for a bit of clarification… By refeeding, leptin increases and thus stimulates the thyroid, increases GH and testosterone, decreases cortisol and generally improves fat burning, right? Dr. D doesn’t address leptin directly in the AS, but this seems to be the reason for the refeed, right? Or is it more of a total caloric thing?
Thoughts?[/quote]
i’m not sure all the leptin bonanza that is around now was around back then, this is prob the reason it isnt mentioned much. and your right about all the increases/decreases. the point of the refeed(i thinK) is to help all of your hormones get into a positive state, and to refill the glycogen in your muscles for the coming week. because your glycogen is full the first couple days off of the refeed, you notice “a great pump” or whatever on the ensuing workouts following the refeed, you’ll be able to give your all these workouts, and so if you are following a WS template or whatever, you’ll prob wanna put your ME lower day soon after the refeed, or ME upper, whichever you need more help with. the less glycogen demanding days(at least the was I do them)DE days, you can put near the end of the week.

357

[quote]Jillybop wrote:
As a completely impartial witness who has been enjoying this thread over time, Owen, this is simply not the appropriate thread for your comments. If you want to debate the AD, start a separate thread for that. This thread is for guys that have already decided this is for them and are supporting each other.

Keep up the great work, guys! I got the “Natural Hormonal Enhancement” book DH recommended and am looking forward to reading is asap.
[/quote]

Alright all y’all, sorry if I started to piss you off, which I’m sure I have. I honestly didn’t intend it that way, I was just trying to improve this thread by throwing out some food for thought. I’ll stop all debates now, and from now on I’ll just try and help out the beginners.

IL cazzo, I know i havent been in this game for as long as you have, but I do have some (knowledge-producing) experience with CKDs which I think can help this thread.

Again, sorry, and if y’all wanna keep on flaming me, go ahead, there will be no response, because trust me, I am sick of forum bullshit as much as all of you.

358

[quote]Owen70 wrote:
Massif wrote:

Glad you could pop in with an open mind, Owen. Oh, wait…
…uhh?

Massif wrote:
If you had bothered to read any of the related literature for the AD, AS or MD, you wouldn’t have written that post. You being a teenager doesn’t make you ignorant, your attitude does.
How did I come off as an asshole? I made it a point to phrase what I said in a non-offensive manner. Alas it seems you appear to have the attitude problem in your dealing with my post. And please point me to these thousands of studies referenced, of course I imagine 80% of them deal with rats or people who are completely out of the focus population for this diet like the old(>60) or obese.

Massif wrote:
Have you bothered to read the background of the AD? Have you read how diets high in fat and protein, but low in carbs INCREASE good cholesterol but lower bad cholesterol and adipose tissue? and what, 40/30/30’s don’t? Of course a person’s adipose tissue and and bad cholesterol levels will go down if they lose weight. Must be a miracle diet.
Massif wrote:
What about the studies in the AD that show it can lower blood pressure? I guess you read all of this and still decided to be an ass? I don’t think so.
see above.
Massif wrote:
Did you decide to ask a few questions regarding the science that is behind the AD, please point out when I did this.
Massif wrote:
or did you just think that you know better than everyone else on this thread, and know better than nutritional experts who have reviewed the literature it is based on? and one of those leading researchers being the man who sold the book. Hmm sounds like a great business plan to try and make your diet look like shit…
Massif wrote:
So you have been training for a whole two years? AND you weigh 200lbs? You’re right - you are an expert in nutrition. We should definitely take your advice.
whatever, i refuse to let this boil down to the other piece of shit message board where everthing turns into “my body is better than yours!”
Massif wrote:
This diet may not be for everyone, but how about you do some research before proving to everyone what an ignorant twit you really are.
Hmmm, sounds exactly like what i said…it will work for some and not for others.[/quote]

Dearest Owen,

I just want to point out a couple of things to you:

  1. If your post didn’t paint you as a asshole, why have you been spanked numerous times for it by posters on this board? Oh, that’s right. You didn’t ask a single question about the logic of the AD, you just said it was unhealthy, shithouse and would give you high blood pressure, without having a clue on how it works. Asshole.

  2. There are over 1,700 references in the Anabolic Solution. That seems to me like a pretty well researched diet. Are 80% of these references for rats and old farts? Buggerred if I know. How about you read the book and find out?

  3. You claim that this diet isn’t healthy, yet it reduces body fat, blood pressure and bad cholesterol, and increases energy, good cholesterol, and naturally occurring muscle building hormones. How exactly is that not healthy?

If you have any questions about the AD, many people on this thread will be more than happy to help you out. This has already happenned more times than I care to quote. If you want to learn something new, please stick around. However, if you are just hear to piss on something that we knows works, and is scientifically proven to work without actually knowing anything about it, then I would recommend that you get a spoon and eat my ass.

Lots o’ love with curly fries,

Massif

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DH, IC or whoever: What are your thoughts on the use of anabolics in conjunction with the diet?

Traditionally people keep fat as low as possible on AAS cycles, specifically anabolics that negatively affect blood lipid profiles.

Are anabolics wasted on this diet? This is pretty much mental masturbation for me, but I’m curious…

P.S. I bought the AS, and have been doing this for coming up on two weeks now. It’s going phenomenally well, and a big reason is this thread. Thanks for everything guys.

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On the 5/2 cycle, you are fine. Not necessarily optimal, but fine nonetheless. I did it like this in fact. The AD was a decade ago and that was the only pattern given. It seemed that it took me a full 3 weeks or so to really “come up”. Later, for grins, I did a 12 day after falling off the turnip truck for a week long Christmas Break carbstravaganza. What a mistake that one was. Anyway, because I had already adapted previously, I’m not the best study subject. But the folks I’ve put on the 12 day cycle really hit bottom and pull out. A crash course. Notice that some of the guys (jerks!) don’t hit a wall until day 10 or 11. A few may make it unscathed entirely. Some folks just hang on to glycogen like Homer Simpson does his beer. The 12 day cycle forces the adaptation. If we employ the 5/2 (more accurately 5.5/1.2) then it’ll take a few rotations to get the full impact. Now, that being said, you are still cool with a 5/2 beginning if you must. It is doable just not optimal.

best,
DH