My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
321

[quote]bino wrote:
conorh wrote:
I’m going to disagree and say that you will leave ketosis at some point even on zero carbs, because you will be fully fat adapted and not running on ketone bodies, but I’d like to hear what DH has to say about it.

Now that you mention it, that does seem more in line with the theory behind the AD. Does this mean I have to move to the rear of the class?.. I just got up front. :slight_smile:

Seems to me that there is still a rationale to wanting to get ~30 grams, and not merely “not more than” 30 grams. I guess I’ll quit wasting bandwidth and wait for someone smart to say something.
[/quote]

I don’t think that is physically possible. Somewhere along the spectrum your body will start to metabolize protein if the carbs approach and stay at zero for an extended period. This means lean muscle. The first place your body looks is the heart for this protein. This is why there is a minimum of 30 grams set. Even Atkins has you at 20 grams for his ‘break in’ phase. If on the AD and you get kind of a ‘nail polish’ taste in your mouth then you are in state of burning muscle mass for fuel. Very many days on 0-5 grams carbs and you will be there. The real danger is cardiac arrest (heart attack). This is why you have to eat high fats to make the AD work. There was a liquid diet several years back called the ‘Cambridge diet’. It was high protien/lo fat. Several people died when thier bodies started ‘eating’ the heart for energy causing heart attacks. Most of you T-men are in good shape and the big concern for you is losing hard earned muscle. Follow the AD as Dr. D laid out. 30 grams, no more, no less.

Barry

322

mozhne
Thanks, That is what I was looking for.

323

Nope. Its a maximum, there is no minimum.

DH

[quote]njstomp wrote:
Is there any issues if I do not get up to the 30 Grams of carbs. I only took in about 5 on Monday and it was my first day on the diet.[/quote]

324

I should elaborate on the minimum. Its pretty darn hard to get that little. Don’t fret. After the break in phase, GET YOUR VEGGIES. This will get some good CHO. For the break in, this is fine and get your fiber too or you’ll be rather “uncomfortable”.

DH

325

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
I should elaborate on the minimum. Its pretty darn hard to get that little. Don’t fret. After the break in phase, GET YOUR VEGGIES. This will get some good CHO. For the break in, this is fine and get your fiber too or you’ll be rather “uncomfortable”.

DH
[/quote]
true that DH!

Also, I’d like to throw in that everyone doin this drink plenty of water. Since starting this up last week, I’ve recently been sweatin my rag off! It’s like I’m always dehydrated.

As for fiber, yeah, consuming some would be a good choice.

326

Yo Hoss,

I have really appreciated the time you’ve spent posting on this AD thread. I think many of us would also like to know more of your thoughts on training, in addition to diet. How about starting the Hoss Training thread? You have the enviable combination of knowledge, experience, and RESULTS that we respect! We would love to learn more from you. How about it?

I know you have been thinking about it. Just hoping this little bit of encouragement will get you over the edge;)

327

Disc Hoss and Il Cazzo:
i’m just wondering, what is the lowest bodyfat you have ever achieved on this diet.

I realize that it may not be your goal to even get below whatever 12%, but it is important I think when you discuss this topic.

If neither of you has taken this diet to get yourself below 15%, then many of these posters need to realize than damned near any approach(well any healthy one…) will get you to 15%. Of course the “fun” involved with getting to 15% maybe be less so on a more traditional approach, it could very well be more healthy.

I have an incredibly hard time believing that either of yours blood pressure/lipid profile/etc etc. improved MORE SO than with a more traditional(less fat, more “good” carbs) approach. I cannot believe at this point that by eating what many of the sample diets listed on this thread include my blood pressure wouldnt skyrocket. At no body fat is the consumption of a pound of beef jerky and 12 eggs(yolks included) healthy. This diet (for some, not all of course) is just helping to reinforce shitty eating habits that existed before going on this “diet.”

I guess my points can be said You can get to 15% in a much healthier fashion, AND stay near there with a more traditional(40/30/30 or whatever) approach.

P.S. dont start flaming my ass because you think I’m some prick teenager who has “only” been involved with weightlifting for 2 weeks. I have been lifting(deadlifts,squats,benches,chins, etc.") for over 2 years now, and right now I am sitting at about 200 lbs and 11% BF, and trust me, my BF setpoint is much higher ~16%.

Anyways, awesome job helping these people regardless guys.

328

[quote]Owen70 wrote:
Disc Hoss and Il Cazzo:
i’m just wondering, what is the lowest bodyfat you have ever achieved on this diet.

I realize that it may not be your goal to even get below whatever 12%, but it is important I think when you discuss this topic.

If neither of you has taken this diet to get yourself below 15%, then many of these posters need to realize than damned near any approach(well any healthy one…) will get you to 15%. Of course the “fun” involved with getting to 15% maybe be less so on a more traditional approach, it could very well be more healthy.

I have an incredibly hard time believing that either of yours blood pressure/lipid profile/etc etc. improved MORE SO than with a more traditional(less fat, more “good” carbs) approach. I cannot believe at this point that by eating what many of the sample diets listed on this thread include my blood pressure wouldnt skyrocket. At no body fat is the consumption of a pound of beef jerky and 12 eggs(yolks included) healthy. This diet (for some, not all of course) is just helping to reinforce shitty eating habits that existed before going on this “diet.”

I guess my points can be said You can get to 15% in a much healthier fashion, AND stay near there with a more traditional(40/30/30 or whatever) approach.

P.S. dont start flaming my ass because you think I’m some prick teenager who has “only” been involved with weightlifting for 2 weeks. I have been lifting(deadlifts,squats,benches,chins, etc.") for over 2 years now, and right now I am sitting at about 200 lbs and 11% BF, and trust me, my BF setpoint is much higher ~16%.

Anyways, awesome job helping these people regardless guys.[/quote]

Glad you could pop in with an open mind, Owen. Oh, wait…

If you had bothered to read any of the related literature for the AD, AS or MD, you wouldn’t have written that post. You being a teenager doesn’t make you ignorant, your attitude does.

Have you bothered to read the background of the AD? Have you read how diets high in fat and protein, but low in carbs INCREASE good cholesterol but lower bad cholesterol and adipose tissue? What about the studies in the AD that show it can lower blood pressure? I guess you read all of this and still decided to be an ass? I don’t think so.

Did you decide to ask a few questions regarding the science that is behind the AD, or did you just think that you know better than everyone else on this thread, and know better than nutritional experts who have reviewed the literature it is based on? Yep. You are looking just like an ass face.

So you have been training for a whole two years? AND you weigh 200lbs? You’re right - you are an expert in nutrition. We should definitely take your advice.

This diet may not be for everyone, but how about you do some research before proving to everyone what an ignorant twit you really are.

329

Mozhne,

Thanks for the advice. I got a copy of the AD and looking forward to starting it as soon as I read and gain a little knowledge about it and start planing my meals…

Its going to be hard to reverse the “no fat” thinking and actully enjoy some bacon!

Oh and Thanks Hoss for everything and to all the posters…your really giving this newb a good direction on how to focus his energies!!

Mag

330

Owen70,
You’d really benefit from reading the Metabolic Diet by Dr. DiPasquale. It has all the references you can read up on and draw your own conclusions. As far as my experience, I’ve gone pretty low in 2002. My goal is size and power and has always been. When I decided to play around with cutting cals I got many compliments. How lean? Don’t know. Don’t care. Abs showed nicely and so did my lumbar region. I’m in a small town and have no desire/inclination to get dunk tested for the “OCD validation moment” Folks commented and I have a decent eye.

Now, let’s not forget that the AD is for putting on muscle with a minimum of fat. We can get lean all we want, but most are trying to get big without being a lard-O. Enter the AD.

As far as quality foods. The AD is established on such overall. You just have to know what you are talking about. BTW, I’ll take some sausage and eggs with full butter, coffee and heavy cream over rice cakes, low fat newtons, and some bleached pasta anyday. ;-).

There is more than enough in the thread and in the books if you care to really investigate. If not, then really what good was all this.

Please consider this with an open mind. We aren’t promising a panacea, but I think the science and applicational results speak well of the AD.

Best,
DH

331

Day 10 and no crash so far. Part of that might have something to do with the fact that I was doing ‘moderate’ carb anyways, before this. Usually under 180gms a day, fruits and vegis only. That is probably helping me. That, and 4000 cals a day!!! Come on Sat!!! (fruit, vegis, and OATMEAL!!yea!!!) Oh, and beans!! My wife will love that!!!

332

Yea I’m trying to figure out just what I want to pig out on over the upcoming weekend. I’m really feeling Il cazzo’s fruity pebbles idea. Unfortunately I have been known to eat the entire box in one setting. I’ll have to break it up into at least two, maybe back to back though.

V

333

I think MY cheeks still sting after Massif’s spank post. All red and “swoled” up. ;-). I want to proclaim the Massif one as “Master of the Woodshed”

Owen70, Buy the MD, buddy. You can always resell it on ebay if you don’t care for it. Just an idea.

DH

334

V,
Don’t say I didn’t warn you if you decide to go sugar crazy… Eat some pastas, oatmeal, taters, veggies, AND some sugary stuff. But alas, we must all experience the “Coma load” at some point. ;-). And if one so chooses, Fruity Pebbles are indeed a wonderful way to go…

DH

[quote]Vegita wrote:
Yea I’m trying to figure out just what I want to pig out on over the upcoming weekend. I’m really feeling Il cazzo’s fruity pebbles idea. Unfortunately I have been known to eat the entire box in one setting. I’ll have to break it up into at least two, maybe back to back though.

V[/quote]

335

Thank you my good man. I can be seen usually on the Dubya, Poliquin, or Thib threads sometimes. Reape too. I’m kicking around a few ideas. We shall have to see what the future holds… :wink:

Best,
DH

[quote]Arctos wrote:
Yo Hoss,

I have really appreciated the time you’ve spent posting on this AD thread. I think many of us would also like to know more of your thoughts on training, in addition to diet. How about starting the Hoss Training thread? You have the enviable combination of knowledge, experience, and RESULTS that we respect! We would love to learn more from you. How about it?

I know you have been thinking about it. Just hoping this little bit of encouragement will get you over the edge;)[/quote]

336

However, if you find that going the 12 days is a bit to rough, then shorten it to as little as 5 days. A recent study has shown that 5 days is enough for most people to fat adapt (35) The authors of the study concluded that “5 days of exposure to a high fat, low CHO diet caused clear changes in fuel substrate utilization during submaximal exercise and that this fat adaption persisted through a full day carbohydrate load. At least some of these changes were indepedant of CHO availabilty because enhanced capacity for fat oxidation persisted despite restoration of muscle glycogen stores.” A follow-up study by the same center confirmed the effects of a high fat diet and low CHO restoration on metabolism. So going 5 days isn’t all that bad as long as you stay steady on the 5 day, 2 day shift for at least a month.

(35)Burke L. et al. Effect of fat adaption and carbohydratet restoration on metabolism and performance during prolonged cycling. J Appl Physiol 89; 2413-2421

This is pulled right from Anabolic Solution. Has anyone on this board only gone the 5 days then a carb up insted of the 12 days. Just curious because in all honesty, it is gonna be a real bich not to drink beer on the 4th of July. That low carb beer is fucking piss water.

337

[quote]Magma299 wrote:
Mozhne,

Thanks for the advice. I got a copy of the AD and looking forward to starting it as soon as I read and gain a little knowledge about it and start planing my meals…

Its going to be hard to reverse the “no fat” thinking and actully enjoy some bacon!

Oh and Thanks Hoss for everything and to all the posters…your really giving this newb a good direction on how to focus his energies!!

Mag[/quote]

Hey Mag, Your welcome. Keep after it.

338

[quote]njstomp wrote:
However, if you find that going the 12 days is a bit to rough, then shorten it to as little as 5 days. A recent study has shown that 5 days is enough for most people to fat adapt (35) The authors of the study concluded that “5 days of exposure to a high fat, low CHO diet caused clear changes in fuel substrate utilization during submaximal exercise and that this fat adaption persisted through a full day carbohydrate load. At least some of these changes were indepedant of CHO availabilty because enhanced capacity for fat oxidation persisted despite restoration of muscle glycogen stores.” A follow-up study by the same center confirmed the effects of a high fat diet and low CHO restoration on metabolism. So going 5 days isn’t all that bad as long as you stay steady on the 5 day, 2 day shift for at least a month.

(35)Burke L. et al. Effect of fat adaption and carbohydratet restoration on metabolism and performance during prolonged cycling. J Appl Physiol 89; 2413-2421

This is pulled right from Anabolic Solution. Has anyone on this board only gone the 5 days then a carb up insted of the 12 days. Just curious because in all honesty, it is gonna be a real bich not to drink beer on the 4th of July. That low carb beer is fucking piss water.

[/quote]

NJ, This past April I started my latest, probably 7-8th round of the AD. I have used it in the past several years as a ‘cutting’ diet. This round I did the 5 day/2 day load right off the bat and have had good results. It takes a little bit longer, probably a month, to get the same effect as 12 days deplete then load. But it does eventually work. Just remember you have to force the metabolic shift. 12 days is the ticket, but the other approach will work.

Barry

339

Owen,

I have used the AD to get in Bodybuilding shape. The last contest I did was in 2000 and I placed second in my class. I was ripped to shreds and about 3 weeks before the contest I was in San Diego working as a spokesman for Icon Fitness. There was a booth at the expo that offered body fat testing with some sort of electric impedance. Don’t know how accurate it was but my reading was 9%. Now by contest day I had gone through a dehydration cycle and all that so I’d guess maybe 7%.

Not long after that I had a blood profile done. ldl was 170 while my hdl was off the charts. hdl is the good stuff. I’m pretty sure an ldl below 200 is good. You are right, a guy can get cut with a number of diets even diets that are ‘percieved’ as safe. But this diet is the best I have found.

Barry

340

Hey All,
This is Day 10 for me. I just wanted to point out how cool everyone was dealing with what could have developed into a total flame war. DH, IC, Mozhne, and Massif, I’m looking in your direction. Keep up the awesome thread guys.