My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

I am convinced. I have read most of the thread. I used the Zone diet before and it worked successfully for me. I see where is was the training wheels as it where. I do have a few questions.

  1. How does this play out againsts the cholesteral drugs I am taking presently. My goal is to get off most of my meds.

  2. I am also diabetic so the low carb aspect (except for the load which I would cut back on about 50%) is great, again coming back to the high fat. As a type 2 diabetic, my major problem is that the insulin receptors are clogged with fat, thus making insulin resistant. Is this going to hinder or help even with the elevated fat intake. Also I am currently taking Byetta for the diabeties which actually slows the digestive process, How would this influence the process.

  3. I am a 50 yr old bilateral amputee above the knee. I have started riding a handcycle and working out with weights. To what extent do I have to increase my workouts to get the full affect of AD. I will be starting shortly on the road of getting my prosthetic legs and I am trying to temper my workouts so the muscle soreness is at a minimal to start this process. The added energy would be fantastic.

I know there are not medical professionals on here so really I am looking for best educated estimates.

I appreciate any and all input

Thanks
Sal B

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
how do you schedule a carb up around a mid week holiday?with holloween, thanksgiving, and christmas all during the week how do you prepare for that carb load?[/quote]

DH did an indepth explanation of this somewhere within the first 25 pages of this thread. :wink:

And his words carry weight more than mine.

[quote]salbecker56 wrote:
…I know there are not medical professionals on here so really I am looking for best educated estimates.

I appreciate any and all input

Thanks
Sal B[/quote]

These are some double barrel questions friend. How bad are your choleserol and diabetes?

–Tiribulus->

The diabeties runs a little high partially because of some of the meds I take, heavy doses of antibiotics to control the infections from the amputations.

The cholesterol actually isn’t that bad, mainly the triclyserides running a little high. Have vascular problems, which my main concern in keeping the triclyserides down, I know once I get this lard off my ass (all around the mid section)I will be able to control the diabeties with diet and get off most of the meds.

For the most part the Doc likes my plan and agrees. This is why I ask about the AD raising cholesterol and the effect the Byetta will have as it slows the digestive process. I also know that the further along I get with the weight lifting and the handcycling, the more gluclose will used by the muscles and the more sensitive I will eventually become to insulin again.

I feel I will have to limit the calories more than usual under this plan as I have mainly only the smaller muscle groups to work with in lifting. Rignt now I am more interested in reducing weight, Increasing endurance on the handcycle. In the process I would at least like to keep the lean muscle mass if not increase it, even if just slowly.

I figure I screwed up the 1st 50 years, gonna see how well I can make up for it in the next 50 :wink:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
salbecker56 wrote:
…I know there are not medical professionals on here so really I am looking for best educated estimates.

I appreciate any and all input

Thanks
Sal B

These are some double barrel questions friend. How bad are your choleserol and diabetes?

–Tiribulus->[/quote]

[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
One question:
Is it ok to start the carb up on Friday night at say 7 PM and end it on Sunday night at 7PM? Does anyone do it this way?
[/quote]

Julius,

This is entirely specific to you and your goals really. 48 hours is a little long in my opinion and would have to be quite structured as you would run a greater risk of spilling over. But again, it’s all about how your body responds. The more lean muscle you carry, the larger the carb load requirement and the longer the duration your body requires to replenish its stores.

If I’m you and want to start on a friday night, carb up until breakfast on a Sunday morning, wait a least 3-4 hours to allow your body time to process the nutrients, and then move back to high fat/high protein meals for the rest of the day. Use this as a benchmark and try adding an extra meal the following week.

Question . . . when do you train on the weekend? Is it Friday night or sometime on Sat. or Sunday? This may also effect the recommendation on when you start and end.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]SashaG wrote:

Julius,

This is entirely specific to you and your goals really. 48 hours is a little long in my opinion and would have to be quite structured as you would run a greater risk of spilling over. But again, it’s all about how your body responds. The more lean muscle you carry, the larger the carb load requirement and the longer the duration your body requires to replenish its stores.

If I’m you and want to start on a friday night, carb up until breakfast on a Sunday morning, wait a least 3-4 hours to allow your body time to process the nutrients, and then move back to high fat/high protein meals for the rest of the day. Use this as a benchmark and try adding an extra meal the following week.

Question . . . when do you train on the weekend? Is it Friday night or sometime on Sat. or Sunday? This may also effect the recommendation on when you start and end.

Cheers,

Sasha

[/quote]

That depends because I have to work every other weekend. When I have to work weekends, I will come home and do a short workout on both days; but on the weekends when I have off I do full blown workouts on both days.

When you mean “spill over” do you mean that I will start storing the excess carbs as fat?

Here’s my experiences on the diet so far:

The first two days I felt like shit; cranky and irritable but after that, I felt ok; in fact, I have pretty good workouts on this diet, at times I even feel better than I did before I started it. It used to be a chore eating this much, but you get used to it.

Then on my first carb up meal, I actually felt like total shit again…the irony. I felt totally tired as well and somewhat disoriented again.

When I go back to carbs, I notice that the food doesn’t quite fill me up like the AD food does. The AD diet also gives me a complete absense of gas which makes my wife happy,lol. Anyone else notice this?

From looking at the food logs here I would say that I eat more pork products than most do because I love sausages (German, Polish, breakfast,etc.) and pork chops. I also eat lots of almonds to get my dosage of good fats plus fish oil and fiber sups. The sausages also have lots of calories. Oh yes and I also eat lots of cheese and eggs too.
I was never really a steak eater in life and don’t feel like starting now.

After a the first 7 days of no carbs, I dropped some bodyfat but weigh the same. I will check it on Friday, two weeks later at the same time to see how I am doing in this regard.

[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
SashaG wrote:

That depends because I have to work every other weekend. When I have to work weekends, I will come home and do a short workout on both days; but on the weekends when I have off I do full blown workouts on both days.

When you mean “spill over” do you mean that I will start storing the excess carbs as fat?

[/quote]

JC,

The term “spilling over” is a bodybuilding one and it has to do with pros carb loading before stepping out on stage. The goal is to stuff the muscle bellies with as much glycogen as possible so that the athlete has that full look.

To spill over is to ingest too many carbohydrates and begin to hold water sub-cutaneously. In Anabolic Diet terms, this means that your carb up is done. It is what Dr. D means when he says that you’ll know when you’ve had enough carbs.

It’s unfortunate that you have to work every other weekend as it makes timing your carb-ups slightly challenging. Traditionally, it’s easier during your carb up to at least have one day off where your not actively depleting glycogen stores through training. If you can, try to shift one of those carb ups to the work week as I believe you may find the loading a little easier as a result.

In the end, you need to personalise this lifestyle to reap its rewards. Stick to the program for the first 6-8 weeks and then mess around with it to find your sweet spot.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]salbecker56 wrote:
The diabeties runs a little high partially because of some of the meds I take, heavy doses of antibiotics to control the infections from the amputations.

The cholesterol actually isn’t that bad, mainly the triclyserides running a little high. Have vascular problems, which my main concern in keeping the triclyserides down, I know once I get this lard off my ass (all around the mid section)I will be able to control the diabeties with diet and get off most of the meds.

For the most part the Doc likes my plan and agrees. This is why I ask about the AD raising cholesterol and the effect the Byetta will have as it slows the digestive process. I also know that the further along I get with the weight lifting and the handcycling, the more gluclose will used by the muscles and the more sensitive I will eventually become to insulin again.

I feel I will have to limit the calories more than usual under this plan as I have mainly only the smaller muscle groups to work with in lifting. Rignt now I am more interested in reducing weight, Increasing endurance on the handcycle. In the process I would at least like to keep the lean muscle mass if not increase it, even if just slowly.

I figure I screwed up the 1st 50 years, gonna see how well I can make up for it in the next 50 :wink:
[/quote]

I gotta be honest. I’m very hesitant with your situation to actually recommend anything, in fact I don’t think I will. I’ll just give you a couple more things to think about.

I also am type2 diabetic and use this diet. However I already had my glucose levels under very good control before I started. I was over 500 quite a bit before I buckled down and it stays between 90 and 120-30 most of the time now. Like I say though, I accomplished this before beginning the AD. Even so it can still creep up to 200 if I’m not careful on the carb loads.

Speaking of the carb loads. They are vital to how this diet works. If it’s not realistic to actually load at this time you may be better served by a different plan at least for now. I have no way of knowing. The calculation for calories I would think would still be based on your weight, even as an amputee.

I do not in any way want to discourage your obvious enthusiasm for getting a grip on your health, but also must be frank. Your stuation makes things more complicated. Cardio work is a fabulous tool for increasing insulin sensitivity and I don’t know if upper body only cardio will do it or not. It may, I just don’t know.

Aerobic type work is also very effective with cardio vascular problems. For someone, again, already healthy in this area I truly believe this diet would be fine. It may also be fine for you and may in fact even be helpful, I just am not qualified to express anything definite.

Then again reasonably strenuous weight training is helpful as well.

As far as the meds are concerned I couldn’t even venture a guess at all.

To be really honest, for someone your age with the particular challenges you’re facing I would tend to think that spending some time working out with a generally reduced carb plan consisting of quality food sources until you see further normalization of especially the glucose levels might be wiser.

I know this sounds very halting, but it’s the best I can do and even this is largely a stab in the dark. In any case, you definitely CAN improve your health dramatically and probably prolong the duration and quality of your life.

I don’t know how helpful any of this doubletalk has been, but there it is.

–Tiribulus->

Thanks for the tips guys…I’ll take it all on board. Heard that Poliquin advises carbing up every 5th day rather than the basic 5/2 day split. He credits this idea to di pasquale. Any thoughts on this anyone?

[quote]OMC wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys…I’ll take it all on board. Heard that Poliquin advises carbing up every 5th day rather than the basic 5/2 day split. He credits this idea to di pasquale. Any thoughts on this anyone?[/quote]

I read this in the Carb Roundtable, where is it found originally? Still, I think charles is talking about just a big carb meal every 5th day, not a carb up.

[quote]msundi83 wrote:
OMC wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys…I’ll take it all on board. Heard that Poliquin advises carbing up every 5th day rather than the basic 5/2 day split. He credits this idea to di pasquale. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I read this in the Carb Roundtable, where is it found originally? Still, I think charles is talking about just a big carb meal every 5th day, not a carb up.[/quote]

yes …its is more of vince gironda and rob faigin style its about …eating carbs every 4th day in the night thats the end meal where u can eat as much carbs u wnat in in one sitting . its every 4 day the last day of the meal must be a high carb meal

its more usefull when u are cutting i used that stlye for 4 weeks and it did work nice for me …but as i wa s in tour and travelling like crazy i shifted back to our ad stlye where i load for 24 hours now …both seem to work nice but the every 4th day carb meal aids in more fat loss that is what even disc hoss told me and if u remember even coach thib used the same protocol when he was preparing for his contest.

[quote]msundi83 wrote:
OMC wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys…I’ll take it all on board. Heard that Poliquin advises carbing up every 5th day rather than the basic 5/2 day split. He credits this idea to di pasquale. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I read this in the Carb Roundtable, where is it found originally? Still, I think charles is talking about just a big carb meal every 5th day, not a carb up.[/quote]

ok OMC and MSUNDI this is what disc hoss had wrote me hope it helps .
Hi Raviraj,

  1. No, you do not need to do another induction phase. You are fine to go into a 4/3 cycle like I mention on the thread. I don’t know if India works on a 5/2 weekly cycle as we do but the 4/3 carb meal cycle is good to allow you a weekend day each week to eat. I also go with a 2 hour window for the “meal” on the weekend. For example:

Wednesday (day 4 of the week):
200-250g of clean CHO at dinner.

Saturday (day 7 of the week):
Unlimited CHO, both clean and “junk” CHO. Like some ice cream or cookies or cake for dessert.

This is primarily to get lean. If/when you want to gain mass and stay lean then go with a full load on the AD cycle like normal.

Best,
DH

[quote]msundi83 wrote:
OMC wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys…I’ll take it all on board. Heard that Poliquin advises carbing up every 5th day rather than the basic 5/2 day split. He credits this idea to di pasquale. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I read this in the Carb Roundtable, where is it found originally? Still, I think charles is talking about just a big carb meal every 5th day, not a carb up.[/quote]

I originally found it on an article on poliquin’s web site with regards to helping clients gain mass in the best possible way. He refers to calories however a friend of mine who uses di pasquales methods to great effect advised eating everything but villages every 5th day.

He said this was the product of di pasquale and poliquin “putting their heads together”. I’m interested in mass building personally so “cutting” can buy a spoon so it can eat my ass;). Whats the best way to pack muscle on?..5/2 4/3 every 5th day?

i would start with the 5/2 and move from their if you aren’t getting fat and aren’t getting gains you want. I personally think going a 3rd day of eating significant carbs is too much for most people. The Doc says so in Anabolic Diet. I don’t know if he has changed his mind. Whatev

[quote]SashaG wrote:
Jinx Me wrote:
Just wanted to say hi, and let you all know I’m starting the AD tomorrow and I’m psyched. I plan to give it a really good shot - won’t be giving up anytime soon regardless of how the first few weeks feel. God, I hope they don’t suck too bad though. I’ve gone low carb before however, and been okay. Anyway, I’m currently bulking and trying to continue building strength while keeping body fat gain to a minimum. I’m probably about 18% right now, and definitely don’t want to add more fat. My diet’s always served me well, but I just wanted to try something really different and shake things up. Otherwise you never know what you’re missing right?

I’ll let you all know how I’m doing. Thanks to everyone who’s posted their experiences and replied to my PMs.

Jinx,

Great to have you as a part of the team. As to your post, the best piece of advice I can pass along is to focus on first the induction phase and first couple of months on the AD. It will help you develop a benchmark in which to work from moving forward.

We’re all here to help and as hopefully you’ll have noticed, this is one area of T-Nation that is free from angry flames and intolerable posts so no matter the question, post away.

Good luck and keep us updated on your results.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

Thanks!

Got through my first weekend and next weekend is my first carb refeed. Energy is very high, to the point where I’m having some trouble sleeping. Lifts were great all last week.

Is there any benefit to extending the induction period?

Also, to the poster who suggested that my bodyfat is a bit high to be bulking(can’t remember your name sorry)… I’m estimating my bf percentage, so I can’t be sure it’s really 18 (and I don’t trust the tests much anyway). Also I agree that my bf is a bit high to start bulking, but I have been bulking for a few months at this point - I’m using the AD to continue that and then I’m transitioning into a fat loss diet in a week or two once I’m adjusted to it. Regardless, my bodyfat isn’t terribly high (and keep in mind I’m female, so 18% on me is closer to 15% on you).

I’m really looking forward to maintaining this diet and then starting another lean bulk in early 2007, to see how my body responds.

[quote]OMC wrote:
msundi83 wrote:
OMC wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys…I’ll take it all on board. Heard that Poliquin advises carbing up every 5th day rather than the basic 5/2 day split. He credits this idea to di pasquale. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I read this in the Carb Roundtable, where is it found originally? Still, I think charles is talking about just a big carb meal every 5th day, not a carb up.

I originally found it on an article on poliquin’s web site with regards to helping clients gain mass in the best possible way. He refers to calories however a friend of mine who uses di pasquales methods to great effect advised eating everything but villages every 5th day.

He said this was the product of di pasquale and poliquin “putting their heads together”. I’m interested in mass building personally so “cutting” can buy a spoon so it can eat my ass;). Whats the best way to pack muscle on?..5/2 4/3 every 5th day?[/quote]
when i was on my tour to usa i used 5/2 and also 1 midweek spike thats is somewhere around 500gm of carbs on wed morning and then sat and sun i was doing the carb load …this will reaaly help u …but u need to be a little aware and carefull the momment u see any fat again stop the midweek spike .
and the tradional way will be uping ur overall calorie intake from my own results i would say 5/2 and wed 1carb meal spike must reaaly help u …but pls keep a close check on fat gain

[quote]Jinx Me wrote:
SashaG wrote:
Jinx Me wrote:
Just wanted to say hi, and let you all know I’m starting the AD tomorrow and I’m psyched. I plan to give it a really good shot - won’t be giving up anytime soon regardless of how the first few weeks feel. God, I hope they don’t suck too bad though. I’ve gone low carb before however, and been okay. Anyway, I’m currently bulking and trying to continue building strength while keeping body fat gain to a minimum. I’m probably about 18% right now, and definitely don’t want to add more fat. My diet’s always served me well, but I just wanted to try something really different and shake things up. Otherwise you never know what you’re missing right?

I’ll let you all know how I’m doing. Thanks to everyone who’s posted their experiences and replied to my PMs.

Jinx,

Great to have you as a part of the team. As to your post, the best piece of advice I can pass along is to focus on first the induction phase and first couple of months on the AD. It will help you develop a benchmark in which to work from moving forward.

We’re all here to help and as hopefully you’ll have noticed, this is one area of T-Nation that is free from angry flames and intolerable posts so no matter the question, post away.

Good luck and keep us updated on your results.

Cheers,

Sasha

Thanks!

Got through my first weekend and next weekend is my first carb refeed. Energy is very high, to the point where I’m having some trouble sleeping. Lifts were great all last week.

Is there any benefit to extending the induction period?

Also, to the poster who suggested that my bodyfat is a bit high to be bulking(can’t remember your name sorry)… I’m estimating my bf percentage, so I can’t be sure it’s really 18 (and I don’t trust the tests much anyway). Also I agree that my bf is a bit high to start bulking, but I have been bulking for a few months at this point - I’m using the AD to continue that and then I’m transitioning into a fat loss diet in a week or two once I’m adjusted to it. Regardless, my bodyfat isn’t terribly high (and keep in mind I’m female, so 18% on me is closer to 15% on you).

I’m really looking forward to maintaining this diet and then starting another lean bulk in early 2007, to see how my body responds.[/quote]

hi there all the very best for ur goals which u wnat to aCHIVE
yes u being in the initial stages there might be some problems where u dont feel sleepy in the night look its a metabolic shift and as we know carbs do increase serotin levels which helps us to sleep . what u can do is u can have ur daily majority of carbs in the night maybe ur last meal .

also ZMA can help u i when i have a jet lag because of travelling use ZMA and also melotin that reaaly helps me . but as u progress in ur diet u will adjust properly and u do will get a nice sound sleep as we all do get . initially every 1 here on this diet will tell u that they did have some sleeping problems which later went away .hope things are going well with u all the best

[quote]OMC wrote:
Hows it lookin guys…5 days in. Todays food

Meal1 6sausages and4 bacon, 2 fishoil
Meal2 400g minced beef piece of cheese
Meal3 same as above with two psylium husk caps
Meal4 same as above
Meal5 you guessed it same as above

I see the lack of vegetables but don’t feel bad and am doing well for the mo with the psylium husks. Any tips or tweeks for that list since its gonna remain similar for the next several weeks. just bought 15kg of beef for a bit over a tenner…gotta use it somehow. am at sub8% bf and wanna get big for combat sports.

[/quote]

ok just bought some asparagus and brocholli. Will this cover mcronutrients sufficently? How much should i eat? Should my plate be 50/50 veg/meat everytime? Am gonna limit sausages but still have plenty of bacon and a crazy amount of eggs. How do I get the olive oil into my diet apart from using it to cook steak and fry mince? how much OO do i need?

I realise there is a lot of Q’s here so am happy enough being told what to do rather than why to do it…if you wanna throw in some explanations thats just a bonus in my book. Thanks again guys.

[quote]OMC wrote:
OMC wrote:
Hows it lookin guys…5 days in. Todays food

Meal1 6sausages and4 bacon, 2 fishoil
Meal2 400g minced beef piece of cheese
Meal3 same as above with two psylium husk caps
Meal4 same as above
Meal5 you guessed it same as above

I see the lack of vegetables but don’t feel bad and am doing well for the mo with the psylium husks. Any tips or tweeks for that list since its gonna remain similar for the next several weeks. just bought 15kg of beef for a bit over a tenner…gotta use it somehow. am at sub8% bf and wanna get big for combat sports.

ok just bought some asparagus and brocholli. Will this cover mcronutrients sufficently? How much should i eat? Should my plate be 50/50 veg/meat everytime? Am gonna limit sausages but still have plenty of bacon and a crazy amount of eggs. How do I get the olive oil into my diet apart from using it to cook steak and fry mince? how much OO do i need?

I realise there is a lot of Q’s here so am happy enough being told what to do rather than why to do it…if you wanna throw in some explanations thats just a bonus in my book. Thanks again guys.[/quote]

I think the best way to eat more olive oil is to use it as a garnish. Get a really good quality one, and just pour it onto your food - it tastes great. Salmon with olive oil and feta for example, or egg salad with olive oil and flax, or just pour it on your steak, fish, chicken, whathaveyou. You can also pour it directly on your veggies.