My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
3142

[quote]allNatural wrote:
This question is for Sasha, DH or anyone who can answer. For cutting fat, what do you think about cutting out a large % of fat intake and upping the protein. Assuming fat adaptation, wouldn’t the body use body fat for energy and the extra protein would spare muscle? If so, I’m going to try this for however long you think it would work and I’ll do another induction phase if you think it’d be necessary. [/quote]

allNatural,

Dropping fat cals is the best approach trying to cut on the AD. As TommyGunn mentioned, Dr. D prescribes this himself in the ebook. With regards to proteins, a moderate increase can serve as a supportive mechanism however I imagine you’re taking in a good amount throughout the week.

Also, make sure that you gradually drop your fat cals as time passes as any sudden drop will accompany a severe decrease in metabolic rate. Also, make sure that you balance your fat reduction across all three varieties (poly/mono/saturates). They all still play a key hormonal role in your diet.

Other things you’ll want to look at is your CHO loads and the choices you make. Keep your duration tight and stick with the low GI/II starchy carbs. Supplementing with Vanadal Sulfate and R-ALA made also be of benefit for better glucose usage/disposal.

Let us know how you get on and if you have any other questions.

Cheers,

Sasha

3143

OK, this is where I throw myself in front of an oncoming transit bus. I spent 3 hours building a word document with all the meat from the first 50 pages of this thread before mainly Disc Hoss had to start repeating himself and the file got corrupted while I was saving it to my server and no method I’ve learned in 8 years as a computer professional can save it.

I was going to convert it to a pdf file for easy searching. Holds head in hands weeping :-[

–Tiribulus->

3144

Thanks for the support everyone. Looks like my sickness is passing…

Sorry if you were referring to me DH (not reading the thread) it’s just that a friend came back after summer from Bahrain, and we passed some joints, this coincided with my first few days on the AD, and i wasn’t sure if it was ‘Bahrani fever’ or ‘Metabolic shi(f)t’

I feel a bit better now, going to start working out again on Monday. Peace

3145

My apologies if this has been covered in this very-long thread before, but…

Food energy can be measured in calories. Exercise can be measured in calories.
Your resting metabolic rate can be measured in calories.

Your body can store energy as new fat or muscle tissue, or it can use some of that stored energy by metabolizing it.

The body is a complex machine, but since energy can neither be created nor destroyed, total energy in must equal total energy out, unless there is a change in stored energy (muscle or fat).

If I’m reading it correctly, various earlier notes in this thread claim that you can eat as much as you want as long as it isn’t carbs (unlimited energy in).

The only way that this would be possible without either putting on fat or violating the energy law would be if all the additional calories were either excreted out of your body, or were converted to muscle.

I don’t think that anyone would claim that you can put on as much muscle as you want as fast as you want just by stuffing yourself with protein, and it appears that AD works, so the extra calories are not being converted to fat.

The only other explanation that I can come up with is that you excrete it.

Not that there’s anything terribly wrong with shitting it out, but couldn’t you probably do just as well with lower cost by just sticking with the 1g protein per lb of body weight guideline?

3146

Let me take a moment and introduce myself. I’ve been on the AD for about two weeks now, and results have been great. After some early digestive and energy problems, things have stabilized. Weight loss has been great. My ONLY complaint is muscle soreness. I do a three day split, with cardio (HIT) 2-3 days per week.
My question relates to adding clean carbs into the diet. Has anyone tried, or have thoughts on, adding some clean carbs (like oatmeal) to first meal of the day, or adding some simple carbs to only my post workout meals?
Thanks in advance for your ideas/thoughts on this.

3147

[quote]pedaler wrote:
If I’m reading it correctly, various earlier notes in this thread claim that you can eat as much as you want as long as it isn’t carbs (unlimited energy in).
[/quote]

If anyone said this they misrepresented both Dr. DiPasquale and anyone claiming to know anything at all about this diet (or any other). A caloric surplus, meaning beyond what is necesary for growth, maintenance and energy will be stored as adipose tissue in a nutshell. The specifics of this were touched on many times by the vets and is also addressed in the book.

–Tiribulus->

3148

[quote]DNIC wrote:
Let me take a moment and introduce myself. I’ve been on the AD for about two weeks now, and results have been great. After some early digestive and energy problems, things have stabilized. Weight loss has been great. My ONLY complaint is muscle soreness. I do a three day split, with cardio (HIT) 2-3 days per week.
My question relates to adding clean carbs into the diet. Has anyone tried, or have thoughts on, adding some clean carbs (like oatmeal) to first meal of the day, or adding some simple carbs to only my post workout meals?
Thanks in advance for your ideas/thoughts on this.[/quote]

Although Disc Hoss’s posts above on this page are directly addressing PWO nutrition they apply to what you’re asking. For soreness the vets swear by BCAA’s which I have yet to try because of budget issues. Soreness hasn’t been a problem for me though. Actually it’s decreased in my case. Extra carbs during the week aren’t going to alleviate soreness in any way I can think of. I just finished my second carb load BTW. My wife started this morning on day one. Guys with more time in can elaborate further I’m sure. Also the first 50 pages or so of this thread have all the info you ever ask for. Disc Hoss, IlCazzo and Sasha are the guys with the most experience and knowledge. Don’t know about Sasha, but DH has over 10 years and IlCazzo like 7 if I remember right.

–Tiribulus->

3149

[quote]pedaler wrote:
My apologies if this has been covered in this very-long thread before, but…

Food energy can be measured in calories. Exercise can be measured in calories.
Your resting metabolic rate can be measured in calories.

Your body can store energy as new fat or muscle tissue, or it can use some of that stored energy by metabolizing it.

The body is a complex machine, but since energy can neither be created nor destroyed, total energy in must equal total energy out, unless there is a change in stored energy (muscle or fat).

If I’m reading it correctly, various earlier notes in this thread claim that you can eat as much as you want as long as it isn’t carbs (unlimited energy in).

The only way that this would be possible without either putting on fat or violating the energy law would be if all the additional calories were either excreted out of your body, or were converted to muscle.

I don’t think that anyone would claim that you can put on as much muscle as you want as fast as you want just by stuffing yourself with protein, and it appears that AD works, so the extra calories are not being converted to fat.

The only other explanation that I can come up with is that you excrete it.

Not that there’s anything terribly wrong with shitting it out, but couldn’t you probably do just as well with lower cost by just sticking with the 1g protein per lb of body weight guideline?[/quote]

Mate,

This is a FAR too simplistic perspective to take on the mechanics of the body, the role of macronutrients, and the subsequent body composition goals of folks on the AD. While you’re correct about the laws of energy conservation, your point does not consider changes over time. One days caloric requirements are different from another and given people’s rates of digestion and nutrient utilisation, 1g of protein per bodyweight is as arbitrary as 10g per day. That, and there is a plethora of different functions that macronutrients play in the body . . . not just body composition.

Just a quick question . . . have you read the ebook? Have you ploughed through this thread that is loaded with a wealth of experience and knowledge. This is not simply a high-protein diet . . . this is a lifestyle that optimises a hormonal environment through diet.

It’s great that you are taking an interest and if you want to try the AD, you have a solid team here that is willing to support you. Just educate yourself with the necessary reading’s so you can go in with a solid approach.

Cheers,

Sasha

3150

[quote]DNIC wrote:
Let me take a moment and introduce myself. I’ve been on the AD for about two weeks now, and results have been great. After some early digestive and energy problems, things have stabilized. Weight loss has been great. My ONLY complaint is muscle soreness. I do a three day split, with cardio (HIT) 2-3 days per week.
My question relates to adding clean carbs into the diet. Has anyone tried, or have thoughts on, adding some clean carbs (like oatmeal) to first meal of the day, or adding some simple carbs to only my post workout meals?
Thanks in advance for your ideas/thoughts on this.[/quote]

DNIC,

As Trib mentioned, carbs are not the solution to muscle soreness. While BCAAs help some (I.e. DH), glutamine others, I find that the anti-inflammatory properties of omega 3 fatty acids help me most. I currently supplement with roughly 10g per day on top of my daily regime of fatty acids.

A couple questions . . . What does your overall caloric intake look like? Are you cycling your caloric levels or are you at a steady state? And most importantly, what does your training split look like (including sets and reps)?

The reason that I ask is that given your high level of energy output through weight training and HIIT, you may not be allowing enough time for recovery. That, or you may be utilising the wrong set of training parametres (E.g. Hypertrophy) to maintain muscle while going through a fat loss cycle.

Shoot back some info and we’ll see if we can help you out.

Cheers,

Sasha

3151

[quote]SashaG wrote:
As Trib mentioned, carbs are not the solution to muscle soreness. While BCAAs help some (I.e. DH), glutamine others, I find that the anti-inflammatory properties of omega 3 fatty acids help me most. I currently supplement with roughly 10g per day on top of my daily regime of fatty acids.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

I didn’t even think of that. My soreness has decreased on this diet and I’ve been eating 12-15 grams of fish oils a day since I started not to mention a couple tablespoons of EVOO.

–Tiribulus->

3152

Sasha,

re: have you read the eBook yet?

not yet, but I plan to. If you can post its location you could save me some search time.

re: valid point about energy balance, but analysis is too simplistic

I was intentionally oversimplifying, that’s true, but it’s important to remember that if you stay in caloric deficit long enough you lose weight (hopefully fat), and if you stay in caloric surplus long enough you gain weight (hopefully muscle), no matter what your macronutrient mix is.

What I’m hoping to do is to improve my existing diet by borrowing some successful AD ideas. In some ways my diet is already similar to the AD, but one thing that’s different is that I’m an active cyclist, which means that I burn a lot of calories every day and I’m not concerned about eating carbs. My goal is to reduce my bodyfat down to 15%, which is only 3.5 lbs away, and then to build as much muscle as I can, esp. in my legs, without putting on fat.

Currently my diet is as follows: First, while losing bodyfat I want to maintain a caloric deficit of about 550 calories per day so that I lose about 1 lb per week. Second, I want to eat as much protein as I need to build maximum muscle. I don’t know how much that is, but from what I can gather it is about 1g/lb body weight per day. If you think it should be different, let me know. For me, that’s about 173g protein.

I have a hard time eating that much protein over 5 meals a day. I also need about 40g of fat each day for good skin and brain health, and to keep fully loaded with glycogen for cycling, I believe I need about 50% of calories from carbs. That makes 409 + 1734 = 1052 calories from fats + protein, plus another 1052 from carbs makes 2104, plus 550 for caloric deficit makes 2654.

The 12xbodyWeight heuristic for calculating RMR is pretty good, but it needs to be adjusted for body composition. More muscle, higher, more fat, lower. I believe that my RMR is about 1970 cal, so that means I need about 2654-1970 = 684 calories/day from exercise. At about 44 cal/mile on the bike, this means I need to ride at least 15.5 miles per day, or less on strength training days. For me, that’s easy.

So while in my fat reduction phase my plan is very different than the AD in that I’m not concerned about carbs, as I intend to burn them off by cycling my butt off anyway. Since calories are calories, it doesn’t matter to me if they come from carb sources or protein sources, as long as I’m in caloric deficit.

When I get to my muscle building phase, which I expect to begin at the end of this month, then I will need more guidance from the AD. My previous attempts to gain muscle gained a lot of fat, too (which is what I’m working off now). Between now and then I’m spending some time in the gym and getting my body adapted to lifting again.

How can I adapt and improve what I’m doing using principles of the AD?

3153

[quote]pedaler wrote:
Since calories are calories, it doesn’t matter to me if they come from carb sources or protein sources, as long as I’m in caloric deficit.

How can I adapt and improve what I’m doing using principles of the AD?

[/quote]

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re entirely missing the foundational principles of the AD. Calories aren’t calories. One the most fundamental aspects is adapting your entire metabolism/endocrine system to prefer lipids as the primary fuel.

If that isn’t done, nothing else will work. Trying to “adapt” some principles from the AD into a plan where carbohydrates are treated as usual would be like trying to run a two cycle engine on straight gas.

–Tiribulus->

3154

Just came off a four day vacation weekend carb/alcohol/sugar binge. God, what a bad idea…

Feel completely horrible today, but back to it. Already I can feel a decrease in fluid with this morning’s coffee and breakfast–which is nice because i’m a bloated-out bastard right now.

I’m hoping this doesn’t mess me up too much. I know I’ve definitely put a few solid ‘bad’ pounds back on because of it.

I can say that living with the AD and keeping it solid definitely makes me feel alot better all-around. This past weekend definitely made me aware of that fact.

3155

[quote]pedaler wrote:

[/quote]

Mate,

You can definitely find the ebook on eBay for a decent price and its definitely worth it. Pick it up, read it, read the thread and plan accordingly.

As Trib mentioned, you cannot simply borrow ideas/practices from the AD and apply it to a traditional diet. It is very much outside the scope of traditional diets as people on the AD are fat adapted where the primary source of energy that the body utlizes is fats, not carbs.

Based on the fact that you’re set on deriving 50% of your daily caloric intake from carbs, the AD isn’t for you. If you wanted to follow the AD, you would have to make some significant changes. For example, would you keep your carbohydrate intake below 30 grams for 5 days before switching to a loading protocol all weekend? I highly doubt it.

I would, however, direct you to listen to Cassandra Forsythe on the fitcast:

http://thefitcast.com/?p=45

as she addresses athletes and very-low carbohydrate diets.

If you’re looking for fat loss help given your current diet, shoot me a PM and I’ll send over some recommendations.

Cheers,

Sasha

3156

@ Pedaler:

Here is a direct quote pertinent to what you’re talking about from the AD book, pp 35-36:

“ENDURANCE EFFECTS
Again, there’s been a lot of criticism of high fat diets from people who claim that you can’t exert
as much energy per contraction on a high fat diet as a high carb diet. Others have said that endurance
also greatly decreases on the high fat diet. This criticism does not apply to the Anabolic Diet.
First off, it’s clear that fat has been vastly underrated for its endurance and muscle-contraction
capabilities. One recent study showed that decreasing free fatty acids and glycerol (a compound
resulting from the hydrolysis of fats and oils) in the blood can reduce fat availability for exercise,
place increased demands on carbohydrates, and actually lessen endurance.9 On the other hand,
an increase in the amount of fat metabolized by the body during exercise has a glycogen-sparing
effect and improves endurance.10
This was highlighted in a recent study11 that looked at the effect of a high fat diet on six trained
runners. What they found was that the VO2 max and endurance was significantly higher in
those runners who were on the high fat diet as against those that were on the normal, or high
carbohydrate diet.
You also have to keep in mind that the two main fuels for muscle growth are carbohydrate
and fat. There is a very limited store of carbohydrate in the body. But fat is an entirely different
proposition. The average man considered to be in shape on the street has about 15 percent
bodyfat. The average woman about 25 percent. These are huge stores of energy in the body,
and much more available over the course of a workout than carbohydrates.
The only problem that may crop up here revolves around the question of whether you’ve
fully adapted to the high fat diet. If you haven’t been on it long enough to go through the
“metabolic shift” we talk about, you may find the diet affecting endurance. But if you’ve gone
through the “shift,” endurance won’t be affected and will likely be enhanced.12
The other side of the Anabolic Diet is that’s it’s not an entirely restricted high fat, low carb
regimen. With the carb loading on the weekends, we’re allowing a huge amount of glycogen
build-up that’s utilized early the next week. We’re getting the best of both the high fat and high
carb worlds without their drawbacks. You’re getting both glycogen build-up and fat burn-off,
and that’s where growth and definition are manufactured.”

Note: I couldn’t include the references.

–Tiribulus->

3157

I’m on day 8 of the induction phase and my legs feel like fukking’ jello, had some flu like symptoms (runny nose, lethargic, not real extreme)
on days 3 and 4. Aside from that things have been alright, been in a good mood, my workouts have been decent, not 100% strength but close.

question is, I have a real critical workout planned for saturday, which is the first day (or second perhaps) of my carb up, I was leafing through the metabolic solution and MP advices against eating any carbs prior to a workout, saying that the raise in insulin levels will drop GH, IGF-1 and energy levels. thing is I gotta’ hit my numbers on saturday, it’s week #5 of #10 of a squat/ deadlift program I’m on and I wanna’ have some decent energy.

so if my workout is around noon on saturday should I carb load on friday night and then eat a fat/ protein breakfast saturday morning and then resume my carb up after the workout, or should I just carb up on saturday morning, workout and suck it up?

3158

Fellow AD’ers

I?m still going through this massive and awesome thread. I just got my DSL up and running after a few weeks of no internet (had to use the internet cafes to do things and had no real chance to read the thread). Thus, I will have more opportunity to read the rest of the thread.

However,I hope you don?t mind if I ask these questions (which I?m quite sure have been answered before, but I have not found the answers yet).

(BTW: I?d not post these questions if they were not important to my current situation)

1.How much olive oil is healthy? How much is too much?

2.How do we know if we adapt?

I did a non-scientific version of the AD in preparation for the AD (meaning I didn?t track cals or pro or cho?but I didn?t eat ANYTHING with CHO?so I figure I was adapting without intending to). I think I had a crash (just wanted to sleep all day) maybe 3.5 weeks ago, but may have been ?one of those days?.

Including those weeks, I?m on week 4. My body comp has gotten leaner and I feel pretty good (but not enough sleep?hahaha).

I?m wanting to mass consume veggies too, so I want to make sure I?m adapted first?how do we know we?ve adapted?

Thanks for any help.

AD

3159

I’m a newb here and am interested in starting this diet/lifestyle. My main goal is lots of lean mass, as I’m a 6’1" skinny-fat 170-175lb mess(was 145 after going down from 240 two years ago). I don’t want much fat gain at all, as even though I wear 30" pants and have a 31" waistline, I still have flab around my abdomen.

I’m relatively new to bodybuilding, and have been doing it for a few months(I had to quit for a few weeks recently- recovering from gyno surgery). When I began last spring, I was around 150 or so. I think I gained too much weight too fast, as I failed to count calories and ate many calorie dense(but healthy) foods, such as nuts, oats, and especially peanut butter. I got plenty of protein, though. Despite the weight gain, my performance in the gym did not improve as much as I’d hoped for, and I was still pretty weak(I’m nowhere near being able to bench my bodyweight, and I can’t do one fucking pullup, for example).

Now, with the doc’s approval, I’m hitting the weights again and am looking to build muscle with minimal fat gain. After reading the FFB Handbook(as I am an FFB afterall), I’ve come to the conclusion that shoving down 300-400 grams of carbs daily as many mass diets suggest just won’t work for me. I’m willing to give this a shot. I’ve been eating moderate(100g) carbs lately, an am actually feeling better than when I was eating 200-300g.

Would this diet be suitable for me? I’m highly interested, and my nutritional habits over the past two years have been excellent(meaning, I haven’t touched fast food in two years, nor do I binge or give into sweets or fried foods).

I have one question, though. I love my veggies, especially raw greens and cabbage with dressing. Do you count the carbs from these on the AD? I’m not asking whether fiber is counted, or the non-fiber carbs in veggies. I’m asking because lately I’ve been eating at least a head of lettuce or two and half a head of red cabbage daily, smothered in dressing or olive oil.

FitDay says one 5" diameter cabbage has 50+ carbs! It really helps fill me up.(if this was answered in the previous 130+ pages, I apologize. I’ve only had time to skim through the first 30 or so)

Thanks

3160

AlphaDragon:

  1. I personally have 6-10 tablespoonfuls a day. Some straight, some in cooking or on salad. It helps me make up calories when I need them. From what i’ve read of the thread, others have more or less depending on their preference, but of course, don’t rely on the oil alone knowing that a variety of whole food is important to the AD.

  2. I’ve only been on the AD for a few months, with a bad week last week, but from what i’ve read and experienced it sounds like you’ve switched to fat metabolism already if you’ve been keeping with the guidelines. The books and the thread all state that it could take a few months to truly be switched over, but that you’ll be into fat metabolism during or soon after the break-in. I only had slight symptoms during the break-in as well and I’ve had some sleepy early evenings since then, but they have also lessened. I could also feel the difference in energy levels, strength, and libido. It varies, but usually Tues-Friday I’m feeling good in all categories. Perhaps you can tell a difference from before? Granted, I’m still working on losing the fat I want to lose, but I’ve definitely gained muscle and strength with ease. And it seems that those gains came with little extra fat.

About veggies, outside of the obviously high GI stuff, you should be good to go. I have a few cups of spinach, some broccoli, a few cherry tomatoes and onions etc just about every day. Maybe i’m wrong and someone can correct me, but I dont even count them in my daily tally.

3161

[quote]Plisskin wrote:
AlphaDragon:

  1. I personally have 6-10 tablespoonfuls a day. Some straight, some in cooking or on salad. It helps me make up calories when I need them. From what i’ve read of the thread, others have more or less depending on their preference, but of course, don’t rely on the oil alone knowing that a variety of whole food is important to the AD.

  2. I’ve only been on the AD for a few months, with a bad week last week, but from what i’ve read and experienced it sounds like you’ve switched to fat metabolism already if you’ve been keeping with the guidelines.

The books and the thread all state that it could take a few months to truly be switched over, but that you’ll be into fat metabolism during or soon after the break-in. I only had slight symptoms during the break-in as well and I’ve had some sleepy early evenings since then, but they have also lessened. I could also feel the difference in energy levels, strength, and libido.

It varies, but usually Tues-Friday I’m feeling good in all categories. Perhaps you can tell a difference from before? Granted, I’m still working on losing the fat I want to lose, but I’ve definitely gained muscle and strength with ease. And it seems that those gains came with little extra fat.

About veggies, outside of the obviously high GI stuff, you should be good to go. I have a few cups of spinach, some broccoli, a few cherry tomatoes and onions etc just about every day. Maybe i’m wrong and someone can correct me, but I dont even count them in my daily tally.[/quote]

Yeah when it comes to salad and fibrous greens, i also don’t count them in my calories count.