My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Thanks, Trib. Cyclists have to be ultra sensitive to the amount of glycogen in the body and glucose in the bloodstream, because you need carbs to burn the fat. The fitness experts seem fond of saying that “fat burns in a carbohydrate flame”, and while the passage you posted suggests that there’s a fundamentally different way to burn fat that doesn’t involve carbs, I’m skeptical (but open minded). A vigorous multi-hour workout can easily drain the body of glycogen. When you hit that point you’re said to “bonk”, and the workout is over. You really just can’t go on until you get some sugar in your blood as a “fire starter”. So I am very familiar with being in a state where my body runs out of carbs and can only burn fat. The whole game of endurance cycling is to manage your limited glycogen and glucose stores very carefully so you can burn the fat as long as possible, refeuling with just enough carbs along the way so the fire doesn’t go out.

I happened to hear of the “Total Wellbeing Diet” this morning, which turns out to be almost exactly what I’ve been doing. It is described as a “protein-plus, low fat diet”. The big difference is that I burn a lot more calories per day than they talk about. It seems to me that the macronutrient mix needs to be adjusted if you will be burning a lot of calories every day aerobically.

I think I’ll stick with my “protein plus” plan for another few weeks until I lose another 3 lbs, and will do some more reading about the AD between now and then.

The big thing that is addressed by the AD that is NOT addressed by the other diets is how to maximize muscle gains. If I can gain muscle without gaining fat on the AD, I’ll give it a try. The timing would be right to try it in the cycling off-season, so I won’t need to be as concerned about running out of glycogen 30 miles into a 60 mile ride.

thanks,

pedaler

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
I’m a newb here and am interested in starting this diet/lifestyle. …

Thanks[/quote]

Though I am not the most experienced guy here you do sound to me like the perfect candidate for the AD. Veggies are not only OK, but required. As long as you keep the total carb intake under 30 grams a day, especially during the induction phase you’re good. That’s total carbs minus fiber. Honestly though, IMHO, cabbage may not be your best bet because aside from Vitamins C and K, (both of which are important) it’s relatively light on micronutrients. Not that’s it’s bad, but there are other veggies that may be more carb cost effective in that department. Just an opinion. One thing, if done right, DO NOT let the fat scare you. I almost had a heart attack just looking at that first breakfast.

Whole scrambled eggs, bacon and full fat wisconsin cheddar!!! You will not get fatter. I’m seeing the stubborn midsection which I had already lost a ton of finally trickling off again. Have to give it time though according to the guys who’ve been eating this way for years.

–Tiribulus->

@pedaler:

According to these 2 studies done with rowers and cyclists, a high fat diet was shown to be superior to a high carb diet with endurance athletes.

The effect of nutritional manipulation on ultra-endurance performance: a case study. Res Sports Med. 2005 Jul-Sep;13(3):199-215.
The Atlantic Rowing Race requires teams of two to cover 3,000 nautical miles over 40-90 days. During this ultra-endurance event, competitors require substantial energy intake to meet metabolic requirements; therefore, sufficient physiological and nutritional support is paramount. Two highly trained males (aged 46) engaged in two 14d dietary interventions, with a 14d recovery period in between, to investigate the effect of such interventions on physiological (cardiovascular, cardiorespiratory, and blood-based measures) and performance-based (distance and split time) parameters during an ultra-endurance (2h on 2h off, for 24h) laboratory-based rowing protocol at 60% VO2max. Diet 1: high fat (HF) [60% fat, 30% carbohydrate and 10% protein] and Diet 2: high carbohydrate (HC) [20%, 70% and 10% respectively]. A greater distance was rowed by both subjects (155, 329 m and 134, 797 m vs 130, 089 m and 122, 112 m) with a concomitant reduced heart rate, volume of oxygen uptake, and respiratory exchange ratio, following the HF as opposed to HC dietary intervention. In summary, ultra-endurance performance was enhanced following a 14d HF diet, without apparent implications on liver function and overall lipid profile.

Enhanced endurance in trained cyclists during moderate intensity exercise following 2 weeks adaptation to a high fat diet. Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol. 1994;69(4):287-93.
These studies investigated the effects of 2 weeks of either a high-fat (HIGH-FAT: 70% fat, 7% CHO) or a high-carbohydrate (HIGH-CHO: 74% CHO, 12% fat) diet on exercise performance in trained cyclists (n = 5) during consecutive periods of cycle exercise including a Wingate test of muscle power, cycle exercise to exhaustion at 85% of peak power output [90% maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max), high-intensity exercise (HIE)] and 50% of peak power output [60% VO2max, moderate intensity exercise (MIE)]. Exercise time to exhaustion during HIE was not significantly different between trials: nor were the rates of muscle glycogen utilization during HIE different between trials, although starting muscle glycogen content was lower [68.1 (SEM 3.9) vs 120.6 (SEM 3.8) mmol.kg-1 wet mass, P < 0.01] after the HIGH-FAT diet. Despite a lower muscle glycogen content at the onset of MIE [32 (SEM 7) vs 73 (SEM 6) mmol.kg-1 wet mass, HIGH-FAT vs HIGH-CHO, P < 0.01], exercise time to exhaustion during subsequent MIE was significantly longer after the HIGH-FAT diet [79.7 (SEM 7.6) vs 42.5 (SEM 6.8) min, HIGH-FAT vs HIGH-CHO, P < 0.01]. Enhanced endurance during MIE after the HIGH-FAT diet was associated with a lower respiratory exchange ratio [0.87 (SEM 0.03) vs (SEM 0.02), P < 0.05], and a decreased rate of carbohydrate oxidation [1.41 (SEM 0.70) vs 2.23 (SEM 0.40) g CHO.min-1, P < 0.05].

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:
I’m a newb here and am interested in starting this diet/lifestyle. …

Thanks

Though I am not the most experienced guy here you do sound to me like the perfect candidate for the AD. Veggies are not only OK, but required. As long as you keep the total carb intake under 30 grams a day, especially during the induction phase you’re good. That’s total carbs minus fiber. Honestly though, IMHO, cabbage may not be your best bet because aside from Vitamins C and K, (both of which are important) it’s relatively light on micronutrients. Not that’s it’s bad, but there are other veggies that may be more carb cost effective in that department. Just an opinion. One thing, if done right, DO NOT let the fat scare you. I almost had a heart attack just looking at that first breakfast.

Whole scrambled eggs, bacon and full fat wisconsin cheddar!!! You will not get fatter. I’m seeing the stubborn midsection which I had already lost a ton of finally trickling off again. Have to give it time though according to the guys who’ve been eating this way for years.

–Tiribulus->

[/quote]

I was just wondering if I should actually measure out my leafy low-carb veggies or just eat them and ignore the carbs in them. Can I eat as much salad greens as I want? If so, then I guess I’ve just began the AD today(the only non-meat/cheese/egg item I’ve eaten today has been half a cabbage and a big bunch of romaine lettuce).

TommyGunn:

re: exercise time to exhaustion during subsequent MIE was significantly longer after the HIGH-FAT diet [79.7 (SEM 7.6) vs 42.5 (SEM 6.8) min, HIGH-FAT vs HIGH-CHO, P < 0.01].

Wow, that’s an amazing result. If I’m reading it right, it was 42.5 minutes to exhaustion (HIGH-CHO) vs 79.7 minutes to exhaustion (HIGH-FAT), with the difference far more than 3 standard errors apart, and so not explainable by chance.

[quote]pedaler wrote:
TommyGunn:

re: exercise time to exhaustion during subsequent MIE was significantly longer after the HIGH-FAT diet [79.7 (SEM 7.6) vs 42.5 (SEM 6.8) min, HIGH-FAT vs HIGH-CHO, P < 0.01].

Wow, that’s an amazing result. If I’m reading it right, it was 42.5 minutes to exhaustion (HIGH-CHO) vs 79.7 minutes to exhaustion (HIGH-FAT), with the difference far more than 3 standard errors apart, and so not explainable by chance.

[/quote]

FYI - I race BMX and DH/XC MTBs and have had no problems whatsoever on the AD. Granted, my rides are shorter than yours and generally rely on different energy systems BUT, I’ve done several 1.5+ hour training rides chasing my wife around on my BMX bike (think poor man’s motopacing) with my HR pegged during the latter half of the week and felt just fine. It don’t get much more harderer than that.

I don’t think metabolically you’ll have any issues on longer, lower intensity days but figuring out what to eat in the middle of a 100+ mile ride might get tricky.

Just my anecdotal $.02.

[quote]Plisskin wrote:
AlphaDragon:

  1. I personally have 6-10 tablespoonfuls a day. Some straight, some in cooking or on salad. It helps me make up calories when I need them. From what i’ve read of the thread, others have more or less depending on their preference, but of course, don’t rely on the oil alone knowing that a variety of whole food is important to the AD.[/quote]

OH, I fully intend to keep scarfing down the bacon and eggs for breakfast, the beef and chicken for lunch and dinner (sometimes pork or fish, etc). I currently take maybe (as of yesterday) 5 TBSP of Olive oil/day (prob going to kick it up again today), and while others are doing it too (or more), I was wondering if it was healthy to have such a high dosage.

I had some sleepy evenings (and a few late afternoons) too, so I was a little concerned. Thanks for sharing that it is pretty normal to have this until a few months in.

I have noticed an insane libido increase, energy is pretty good (especially once started in an activity), and strength can’t be measured for a few more days (it’s day 4 of a planned off week).

Body comp has become so much better, that I can’t believe it…I’ve lost some body fat too.

this is AWEsome!

[quote]
About veggies, outside of the obviously high GI stuff, you should be good to go. I have a few cups of spinach, some broccoli, a few cherry tomatoes and onions etc just about every day. Maybe i’m wrong and someone can correct me, but I dont even count them in my daily tally.[/quote]

There was a list of “Veggies that don’t count at all” that DH posted WAYYYY back on like page 28 or something…<searches through his WORD document for them…yes, I made a word document to highlight and note all the good information here>

Ah…here is the list of “Veggies that don’t count toward CHO total AFTER THE BREAK IN PERIOD:”

***********FREE VEGGIES.

Eat all you want once you ADAPT. These create a caloric deficit by taking more energy to digest than they themselves contain. Mow down boys!

Asparagus
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Celery
Lettuce
Mushrooms
Radish
Spinach.


And…my first official carb up is coming up in 2 days…I don’t even crave carbs now. Go figure.

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:

There was a list of “Veggies that don’t count at all” that DH posted WAYYYY back on like page 28 or something…<searches through his WORD document for them…yes, I made a word document to highlight and note all the good information here>

Ah…here is the list of “Veggies that don’t count toward CHO total AFTER THE BREAK IN PERIOD:”

***********FREE VEGGIES.

Eat all you want once you ADAPT. These create a caloric deficit by taking more energy to digest than they themselves contain. Mow down boys!

Asparagus
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Celery
Lettuce
Mushrooms
Radish
Spinach.


And…my first official carb up is coming up in 2 days…I don’t even crave carbs now. Go figure.[/quote]

Cool. So I should limit my veggies for the first 12 days? I don’t plan on officially beginning until Monday due to a wedding I must attend out of town this weekend.

Basically, after the adaptation phase, I plan on eating a meat/veggies/eggs/cheese diet on weekdays. I’ll definitely limit my veggie intake initially, especially the cabbage(which I love smothered in EVOO with salt and pepper- it’s so filling).

Also, I got a Psyllium powder. It says 10g of carbs on the back, 9g of fiber. So one serving I only count 1g of carbs towards my daily allotment, correct? This will be especially useful for my bowels during the initial 12 days.

[quote]pedaler wrote:
TommyGunn:

re: exercise time to exhaustion during subsequent MIE was significantly longer after the HIGH-FAT diet [79.7 (SEM 7.6) vs 42.5 (SEM 6.8) min, HIGH-FAT vs HIGH-CHO, P < 0.01].

Wow, that’s an amazing result. If I’m reading it right, it was 42.5 minutes to exhaustion (HIGH-CHO) vs 79.7 minutes to exhaustion (HIGH-FAT), with the difference far more than 3 standard errors apart, and so not explainable by chance.

[/quote]

pedaler,

Outside of athletics that place extremely high demands on glycogen stores on a consistent basis . . . think sprinters . . . the AD lifestyle makes complete sense for sports.

Once fully fat adapted, through dietary fat intake and body fat stores, you’ll have steady access of energy that your body will be able to source for activity. This is what makes the AD ideal for endurance sports like cycling. You’ll also vastly improve your body’s ability to spare/utilise glycogen during intense exercise (E.g. weight lifting) while vastly improve your day-to-day energy levels

Where the whole, “carbohydrate” fueling the fat burning fire comes in is during the CHO loads. During the weekends we’re actively replenishing out body’s glycogen stores via our improved insulin sensitivty, resetting leptin levels to “switch off” our body’s starvation signal and giving our metabolism a nice kick. All these benefits come along with an optimised hormonal environment that makes body composition changes much easier.

I encourage you to listen Cassandra Forsyth’s interview on the fitcast where she discusses very-low carbohydrate diets and athletics . . . I posted the link a couple of pages ago.

Make no mistake, the transition can be quite challenging however once you’re through, you’ll enjoy a load of benefits that come along with the AD.

Cheers,

Sasha

I know it’s unethical, but the ebook can be found on many torrent sites.

Respect to the guy DiPasquale, but in my case the knowledge was free. If i ever get rich AND huge i’ll find him and put a few hundred in his pocket

You don’t crave carbs now? After all this time forcing myself to eat rice and shit (contrary to my own logic, because ‘they’ said it’s the way) i’m fine not eating carbs for 5 days out of the week. But i do want some cheesecake on Saturday, and maybe some beers

AlphaDragon:
Sounds like you have it down. Now its just solid practice. Other things I’ve been told to consider by DH are items like HOT-ROX and daily BCAAs and keeping the refeed clean. But for me, those answers were about getting the fat off faster and cutting some of the calories.

abcd1234:
You also sound like you’re getting it down and will have it down for when you get started. Good luck! And in case you need them, here are some important related links:

The AD Thread up to at least page 118 or so available for download, thanks to Simpletbrain.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1173827

The Eat Like A Man articles
part 1:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460968
part 2:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459762

An interview with Dr. DiPasquale
part 1:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460954
part 2:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460959

And of course, the books are on eBay and Dr. DiPasquale’s site, etc. Also, I’ve probably forgotten something.

[quote]SashaG wrote:…
I encourage you to listen Cassandra Forsyth’s interview on the fitcast where she discusses very-low carbohydrate diets and athletics . . . I posted the link a couple of pages ago…

Cheers,

Sasha

[/quote]

I also found Cassandra’s discussion quite fascinating and am very interested to learn the conclusions of the study they’re doing on saturated fat intake. She says that will take a year though. She is one authoritative person who is definitely not afraid of dietary fat. The roundtable bore that out as well.

–Tiribulus->

Great links Plisskin, thanks.

But in a case of “Better now than never” I have realized in lieu of the “free veggies” list that we may have to eat more cals on the AD to make up for the caloric defecit that the free veggies create.

I guess my question that arises from this thought is:

“Should we raise caloric intake once we start to consume the ‘free veggies’ to make up for the caloric defecit?”

Thought this was mildly amusing.

Man, this is rough:

Here it is, the first carb up day after the initial period and:

It’s 7pm and I’ve only had 2000 cals…and this includes a 12" pizza.

I really and truly don’t want any carbs, and I have no craving for them. But, I’m sure trying to force them in.

What do you guys do to get in the 3000 carbs (+)?

errr…

wanted to fix this before I forget…it’s and edit to my previous post:

I meant to say:

“How do you guys manage to get som many healthy calories in on Carb Up days?”

Is it OK to work-out on carb-up days or should i train only the high fat/protein days?

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
What do you guys do to get in the 3000 carbs (+)?
[/quote]

Honestly I don’t count, but I really doubt I get 3000 calories in carbs. I do it all clean. Also if I go too nuts my blood sugar goes a bit high. Type 2 diabetes. You might want try really thick and dense oatmeal. I make a big pot very over thick with lots of raisins and then put a few cups of milk in a blender with a banana, apple, sweet potato and whey powder with a tablespoon of EVOO. Blend it up and mix it in the oatmeal. Never added it up, but a bowl has to be pretty calorie dense. You obviously can get creative with the ingredients. The trick is the very thick oatmeal.

[quote]rikz wrote:
Is it OK to work-out on carb-up days or should i train only the high fat/protein days?
[/quote]

I remember one of the vets, think it was Disc Hoss talking about workouts on carb days and I’ve been doing it because somewhere along the way I picked up it was fine. Not the most definitive answer, but I’m sure it’s accurate.

–Tiribulus->


Yeah Baybee!!! 14 pounds of manfood ready for the freezer!!