My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part III

Nutrition
101

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
DJS wrote:

Pauli, great to see you around again from time to time. Do you have the same views when it comes to bulking with the AD? Most here seem to use it as a fat loss diet. Very few seem to be bulkers. Do you think ground beef, hard cheeses, and big loads are more beneficial here?

I want to use the AD this time to gain weight but not turn into a total slob.

DJS,

As DH told me once…
How Much you Eat = How Much you Gain
What you Eat = What you Gain

Make any sense?

The AD can work as a ‘cutting diet’ or as a ‘bulking diet’ …but it works best as Both!

In other words…The AD was designed to combine the Best of Both possible scenarios.
Build quality muscle while always keeping fat to a minimum. If fat ever begins to interfere with muscle building (which it will)…you can adjust your intakes to burn more fat while still building strong, quality muscle tissue.

If you have not read Mauro’s work, I highly recommend that you do. Even if the science escapes you -You will have a MUCH better understanding of the How’s, the Why’s and the Primary Reasoning behind the research and how he arrived at his recommendations in the first place.

Dr Mauro DiPasquale is a brilliant, brilliant man. But more importantly…he has done it.
Google his name -look for photos and search his accomplishments in the world of strength.

There is no reason to “bulk up” to “Slob Status” on the AD…You can get very, very strong -very lean and very Muscular using the AD.
[/quote]

Hey Paulie,

I don’t want this to come off negative because you have been such a positve thread yourself weaving in and out through all of the A.D threads. It’s just that I have the anabolic solution and I have read every post in the original mammoth AD thread. I have paid my dues. The poing of my question was… 90% of all the posts on all these threads are cutting questions and answers. I was asking for some real world bulking AD advice on some things that work or don’t work or things to watch out for. I think you just focused on my sentence about not being a slob. But… I was saying that was one of the reasons I was using the AD to bulk and not that I was scared i would become one.

I’m just looking for some vet perspective on buling. I am currently adding about 200 to 250 cals a week till i start gaining. current week diet looks like

am wake up, coffee and heavy cream, 30gs protein shake and a tablespoon of EVOO

workoout

post workout

60gs protein shake, cup low carb milk, 3 table spoons evoo

commute to work

10 whole eggs

1/2 a lb ground beef

a couple hours later

1/2 a lb of ground beef

dinner

four turkey burger patties and 3 tablespoons evoo

prebed… 60 grams protein shake.

I skipped the veggies for simplicity. comes out to around 400 grs protein, 243 grms of fat.

102

Does anyone else think, people’s expectations about the AD are a bit unrealistic.

To my understanding what separates the AD from a typical ketogenic diet, is it focuses on the long term effects rather than the intermediate effects. When you rewire yourself to the AD in the longterm, there are added benefits which you may not see in the short term.

Personally, I did not feel fully adapted until 3-4+ months on the AD, yet I get the impression people are expecting results within <1 month.

You really need to spend the time and effort fine tuning things (several months), if your goal is to gain muscle and lose fat. This is difficult regardless of the diet/life style you choose, so don’t get your hopes too high and be patient.

103

[quote]andyr wrote:
Does anyone else think, people’s expectations about the AD are a bit unrealistic.

To my understanding what separates the AD from a typical ketogenic diet, is it focuses on the long term effects rather than the intermediate effects. When you rewire yourself to the AD in the longterm, there are added benefits which you may not see in the short term.

Personally, I did not feel fully adapted until 3-4+ months on the AD, yet I get the impression people are expecting results within <1 month.

You really need to spend the time and effort fine tuning things (several months), if your goal is to gain muscle and lose fat. This is difficult regardless of the diet/life style you choose, so don’t get your hopes too high and be patient.

[/quote]

Didn’t you recently say you felt that the AD wasn’t really any better than any other diet for bulking other than convenience?

104

You have misunderstood me. As a novice lifter, PERSONALLY, I do not think bulking on a phase-shift or high-carbohydrate would have made a difference. This does not mean, I do not think it will be successful on other people, as long as they do not create unrealistic expectations.

As I stated, calories is the key in the mass phase, and for me meeting these requirements through carbohydrates is much easier and cheaper.

I guess what I am saying is, if you feel great and energetic eating high fat, why would you return back to high carbohydrates? If it makes no difference, then at the end of the day, it comes to personal preference.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
andyr wrote:
Does anyone else think, people’s expectations about the AD are a bit unrealistic.

To my understanding what separates the AD from a typical ketogenic diet, is it focuses on the long term effects rather than the intermediate effects. When you rewire yourself to the AD in the longterm, there are added benefits which you may not see in the short term.

Personally, I did not feel fully adapted until 3-4+ months on the AD, yet I get the impression people are expecting results within <1 month.

You really need to spend the time and effort fine tuning things (several months), if your goal is to gain muscle and lose fat. This is difficult regardless of the diet/life style you choose, so don’t get your hopes too high and be patient.

Didn’t you recently say you felt that the AD wasn’t really any better than any other diet for bulking other than convenience?

[/quote]

105

You have misunderstood me. As a novice lifter, PERSONALLY, I do not think bulking on a phase-shift or high-carbohydrate would have made a difference. This does not mean, I do not think it will be successful on other people, as long as they do not create unrealistic expectations.

As I stated, calories is the key in the mass phase, and for me meeting these requirements through carbohydrates is much easier and cheaper.

I guess what I am saying is, if you feel great and energetic eating high fat, why would you return back to high carbohydrates? If it makes no difference, then at the end of the day, it comes to personal preference.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
andyr wrote:
Does anyone else think, people’s expectations about the AD are a bit unrealistic.

To my understanding what separates the AD from a typical ketogenic diet, is it focuses on the long term effects rather than the intermediate effects. When you rewire yourself to the AD in the longterm, there are added benefits which you may not see in the short term.

Personally, I did not feel fully adapted until 3-4+ months on the AD, yet I get the impression people are expecting results within <1 month.

You really need to spend the time and effort fine tuning things (several months), if your goal is to gain muscle and lose fat. This is difficult regardless of the diet/life style you choose, so don’t get your hopes too high and be patient.

Didn’t you recently say you felt that the AD wasn’t really any better than any other diet for bulking other than convenience?

[/quote]

106

Has anybody done the AD long term – that is, for a year or more? Are there health risks?

I did it for 3 months so far. I was aiming for moderate fat loss + strength gains, and that’s what I got, and it was great. I felt much more well and satisfied than I did when I used to eat essentially nothing but starch and sugar. People told me I looked like I lost weight (though I actually didn’t – probably muscle gain making up the difference.) So I like this. But I have heard that it’s dangerous to keep it up forever.

What I think freaks people out is eating lots of fat, but I don’t really think I take it to excess. I get fat from the oil in salad dressing or in sauteed vegetables, nuts, egg yolks, sometimes cheese, and sometimes the fat in ground beef and the like. It’s about 60-100 grams a day.

I also eat vegetables at 2-3 meals a day. I’m not one of these people subsisting exclusively on bacon.

If that’s going to fry my arteries down the road, or if it’s damaging in some other way, tell me – I’m young and reckless, but I don’t want to be too reckless. I know this is a “weird” way of eating from the general public’s perspective, and so what, but what matters to me is, is it also harmful?

107

Alisa, there’s an easy way to monitor this: just get blood work done once a year or every other year.

I go through 2 or 3 dozen eggs a week along with 3-4 pounds of red meat but also consume a ton of coconut oil, flax seed, natural peanut butter, fish, etc. Many people are semi-horrified to find out how much fat I consume (which is why I generally don’t discuss my diet with others) but my blood markers are actually outstanding, even compared to other 22 year-olds.

108

Ack, blood work? What would be in my blood?

109

cholosterol, triglycerides, etc.

110

[quote]DJS wrote:
I’m just looking for some vet perspective on buling. I am currently adding about 200 to 250 cals a week till i start gaining. current week diet looks like

am wake up, coffee and heavy cream, 30gs protein shake and a tablespoon of EVOO

workoout

post workout

60gs protein shake, cup low carb milk, 3 table spoons evoo

commute to work

10 whole eggs

1/2 a lb ground beef

a couple hours later

1/2 a lb of ground beef

dinner

four turkey burger patties and 3 tablespoons evoo

prebed… 60 grams protein shake.

I skipped the veggies for simplicity. comes out to around 400 grs protein, 243 grms of fat.
[/quote]

Okay…we can work with this.

This is what I see:

You are having four meals a day -the rest of your intake consists of “shakes”
(hate the term…but that’s another thread altogether)

If you want to build muscle and stay lean in the process…you really, really, really need to eat Whole Food. (and yes, that was a period)

Liquid protein has its place…but if you want to gain muscle mass…you need whole food.

A calorie is NOT just a calorie…the caloric SOURCE makes a HUGE difference in matters of body mass/tissue composition.

Now what I need from you…

Your stats:

weight:
height:
waist measurement:

bodyweight pullups:
overhead press:
bench:
squat:
deadlift:

Let me know…

111

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Ack, blood work? What would be in my blood?[/quote]

Alisa,

I checked your profile and am digging the bod and the geekiness – naturlich! I concur that you ideally want to get bloodwork done periodically, maybe every six months. This lets you look at your colesterol levels and ratios, triglycerides, homocysteine.

Incidentally I have used the AD for about seven years, but not continuously to tell you the truth. The trend I have noticed is that my trigs go down when I drop my carb intake, that’s all. (Tip: This is good.) That said I am long overdue for bloodwork, myself.
M

112

Pauli, DH, and Tribulus…WHAT IS GOING ON!?

lol ok but seriously, this is just not making sense to me. I started the AD on 8/1/09 so it’s been about 7 weeks.

Starting Stats: 182.6lb 31.5in waist
Current Stats: 184.2 ~32.5in. waist

Why would I be getting these types of results? I’ve only put on about 1.5lb. if that and waistline has gone up an entire inch! Most of the slight definition I had in the abdominal region is gone, stomach fat noticeable, less definition in arms, slightly more chin fat and all while being about the same weight. Bench, Rows, Military press, Deadlifts, Front Squat (other than a really bad workout this week), and other lifts have gone up so I don’t think I could have lost muscle but I definite have gained more than 1.5lb. of fat so the difference is coming from something.

Anyway I really like the convenience of this lifestyle and want it to work, and it’s a hell of a lot easier to follow at college than a lower fat higher carb diet, but it’s been almost 2 months. Any suggestions?

Strangely enough when I did a “keto-bulk” back in 07’ I gained way too fast but got pretty good results it seemed ( 10lb gain for a 1in. increase in waistline) so I figured if I went back to that diet but took it slower I would gain much leaner weight, but now like I said I’ve gained only about 1-1.5lb. for about an inch increase.

Only difference I can think of between those times for the most part is that I’m doing 5/3/1 now focusing on getting stronger and back then I was doing some HST style routine. I don’t think that’s the reason though.

Thanks for the help

Edit: Woke up this morning at 184lb and 32 1/8in. waist…definitely makes me feel better about the measurements I took yesterday but looking at the big picture there’s still the same problem to a smaller degree.

113

Interesting article by Jerry Brainum in this month’s Ironman concerning low carb diets. His conclusion is that a targeted carbs approach (which sounds close to what Thibaudeau currently recommends) may be the most efficent system rather than all out keto.

114

Hey guys!
First I want to thank all of the contributers to the anabolic threads! Been really helpful!
I’m on day 13 and will do my first carb-up on day 16 and everything is going good. However I have got alot of back acne and some acne on my upper-abs. I haven’t ever had any acne on my stomach before. Is this from all the fat I am eating or what?

I had a little acne in my face before starting AD and that is much better. Has anyone experienced that and was how long did it last? It’s not a great feeling to benchpress when you got a bunch of acne on your back. =P

I remember reading this question but I can’t find the answer again :). During the carbups I’ll be training one of the days. Should I do a big insulin spike before training or is it better to wait with the carbs till after training??

115

There is some really good info in these threads. I started yesterday, but did follow the plan 2 years ago, only for about 3 months, but lost 20lbs, and kept my strength!

116

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Pauli, DH, and Tribulus…WHAT IS GOING ON!?

lol ok but seriously, this is just not making sense to me. I started the AD on 8/1/09 so it’s been about 7 weeks.

Starting Stats: 182.6lb 31.5in waist
Current Stats: 184.2 ~32.5in. waist

Why would I be getting these types of results? I’ve only put on about 1.5lb. if that and waistline has gone up an entire inch! Most of the slight definition I had in the abdominal region is gone, stomach fat noticeable, less definition in arms, slightly more chin fat and all while being about the same weight. Bench, Rows, Military press, Deadlifts, Front Squat (other than a really bad workout this week), and other lifts have gone up so I don’t think I could have lost muscle but I definite have gained more than 1.5lb. of fat so the difference is coming from something.

Anyway I really like the convenience of this lifestyle and want it to work, and it’s a hell of a lot easier to follow at college than a lower fat higher carb diet, but it’s been almost 2 months. Any suggestions?

Strangely enough when I did a “keto-bulk” back in 07’ I gained way too fast but got pretty good results it seemed ( 10lb gain for a 1in. increase in waistline) so I figured if I went back to that diet but took it slower I would gain much leaner weight, but now like I said I’ve gained only about 1-1.5lb. for about an inch increase.

Only difference I can think of between those times for the most part is that I’m doing 5/3/1 now focusing on getting stronger and back then I was doing some HST style routine. I don’t think that’s the reason though.

Thanks for the help

Edit: Woke up this morning at 184lb and 32 1/8in. waist…definitely makes me feel better about the measurements I took yesterday but looking at the big picture there’s still the same problem to a smaller degree. [/quote]

This morning: 186.5, 32 9/16in… :frowning: strength has been going up though in most lifts, albeit slowly. No increase in arm or calf measurements which I guess I wouldn’t expect with only a few pounds gained. I don’t mind slow/steady strength gains, it’s just the fat that’s the issue.

Not that calipers can ever be completely precise/accurate but both my chest and abdominal skinfolds have gone from 13-15mm to 20-22+mm (obviously a huge increase for such a small weight gain) yet thigh skinfolds have stayed at around 21-22 the whole time.

117

Thought I’d chime in, I started the diet last year and did it for 13 weeks went from 350’s to 330’s. I lost a good amount of weight up front and then slowly added some on a few pounds at a time. Then fell off the wagon, so I started it again this past February and didn’t have the initial results I had from the previous time. I did manage to drop about 10 pounds or so over 7 weeks.

Then I decide to consult a professional, I paid for some help. He started me off on carb cycling, then a no carb (well low, low carb) routine. I had great success up front on the carb cycling and had good energy. Then I started to slow and switched to no carb phase and was doing well for a good while also. I dropped just over 40 pounds in around 4 months, was doing a DC program with cardio. I was able to continue getting stronger and loose fat with all the diets combined and also increase my work capacity (my rest intervals were short between sets). The only thing that derailed me was the intense tendon pain I had in my forearms and just getting sick of chicken, eggs and nuts. I felt like I was going to shit eggs and grow feathers at one point. So I took 3 weeks off everything (training, cardio & diet). Then started back on AD, it’s been 3 weeks now that I’ve been back. I wanted to start with AD again so I can taste real food, but the kicker is while using the diets provide by the professional I actually learned something.

Here is what I took away, I don’t sit down and eat a whole 12-14 oz steak, with salad and other crap now. I portion my food out and shoot for 60 grams of protein a serving and shoot for 5-6 meals a day. I rotate protein sources, I use beef, chicken, fish, omega 3 eggs, bacon, ON ProComplex. I still use nuts, although cashews have had a bad reaction as of late with bloating and gas. I use EVOO, fish oil, primrose and I still have cheese although I limit it to 4-6 oz a day. I eat broccoli and salad as well as take in fiber supplement.

As I stated though I limit my portion size to 60 grams, so I may have 4 oz steak, with some cheese, a few pieces of bacon and that’s it.

I also changed my workout up and started the GVT, which by the way is a complete train wreck for some old fat guy that has been lifting heavy and lower reps his whole life (powerlifting). But I want to pack on some muscle get a good change and loose more fat. I also stopped using machines for cardio and go to a local high school and use the track, bleachers and field. I find propelling my own weight feels like more work and actually running and working towards sprinting again is motivating.

I found that limiting my refeed/carb up has helped also. Even eating 80-90% clean I still was gaining to much in a weekend. I now start at 12/noon on Saturday and end just after breakfast on Sunday, but I don’t go balls out with it. I start with rice, work in some tatos or pasta and that’s about it. As I progress I’m going to limit it even further and may add in a mid week jump since Wednesday’s leg day is sucking and is an ass kicker, but I will limit it to post and one other meal after that and it will most likely consist of old fashion oats in a shake post workout and more oats or brown rice after that with a total some where from 50 to 100 grams.

I guess I wanted to post this after reading 5 pages of it so far, I think that people get to much freedom with the diet and it leads to gaining fat and weight. I know that’s what happened to me, I was adding in 2 tablespoon of heavy cream, which in my opinion is a waste of a fat source. Also I see what everyone is eating, but don’t see what they are supplementing.

I’m far from being in great shape and a prefect roll model for health and advise, but I thought I’d share how things are going for me and what I’ve taken away so far. Currently I’m 311 down from a beginning weight of 353 (and probably higher prior to that meeting with the scale) and shooting for 300 or just under in the next 3-4 weeks and most likely I’ll be modifying my diet again in the next few weeks back to a cleaner protein source, nuts, eggs and salad.

In the lifting world it’s said everything works, but nothing works forever! I’m sure Louie at WSB made reference to this and I’ve carried it over to diet now. The info I took away from the assistance with dieting has been great. I’m on my own now by choice, I want to see what I can do by myself, but will always owe my success to the paid consultations!

Look forward to reading more post and would love to hear some feedback from DH on my thinking and layout.

Later

118

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

This morning: 186.5, 32 9/16in… :frowning: strength has been going up though in most lifts, albeit slowly. No increase in arm or calf measurements which I guess I wouldn’t expect with only a few pounds gained. I don’t mind slow/steady strength gains, it’s just the fat that’s the issue.

Not that calipers can ever be completely precise/accurate but both my chest and abdominal skinfolds have gone from 13-15mm to 20-22+mm (obviously a huge increase for such a small weight gain) yet thigh skinfolds have stayed at around 21-22 the whole time.
[/quote]

You are still taking your own skinfolds?
With what?

Harpendens cost around $500. If you aren’t using Harendens (or they aren’t being used on you) you shouldn’t even bother. Even in the hands of an experienced assessor -self assessment with Harpendens (or anything else) is a waste of time.

Stick with a tape measure around your waist.
Do something that makes your heart pound out of your chest for 30 minutes, three times a week.
Squat. Deadlift. Bench. Overhead press.
Eat meat and vegetables…nothing else.

If you’re still not happy with your waist measurement -do a one meal refeed -once a week -that’s it -until you are happy with your waist measurement.

Sorry -short on time. But that’s the best I can give you.
I think you may still be ‘majoring in the minors’ as DH would say

;^)

119

[quote]Pauli D wrote:

You are still taking your own skinfolds?
With what?

Harpendens cost around $500. If you aren’t using Harendens (or they aren’t being used on you) you shouldn’t even bother. Even in the hands of an experienced assessor -self assessment with Harpendens (or anything else) is a waste of time.

[/quote]
The skinfold measurements were kind of a random thing, the tape measure has been what I’ve been mostly using recently

A few questions/comments

  1. When I got to college I started doing cardio as 3 days a week I take the stairs up and down every time I go to my floor. Thats 18 flights (2 per floor and I’m on the 9th floor) up and 18 flights down each time I go to/from the dorm which is about 3-4x on those days. So about 63 flights up and 63 down each of those days instead of my previous low intensity cardio I was doing before I got back to college. Should I do this everyday or something?

  2. As far as “eat meat and vegetables”, this seems like a cutting recommendation. Just so you know I’m looking to gain muscle with minimal fat gain, my main focus isn’t currently on fat loss. So would the general message (even for muscle gain?) be to increase protein and decrease fat? I’m at 320p/200f on workout days 4x per week and 295p/100f on off days 3x per week.

  3. As far as refeeds, when I began those seemed to be the days I had the least problems with fat gain lol, like I would look leaner the next day and it seems like most of the fat gain was coming from the week day foods.

Thanks a lot

Thanks

120

When would be the best time to take measurements? I have been taking them at the end of the week before any carbs are eaten. Should i take them after my carb up?

thanks