My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part III

Once you are adapted, you can monkey with the macros (within reason). Now Ive seen two types of people respond a bit differently. Some, once fully adapted, do best on keeping fat high even with a caloric deficit. For example: say a lifter is 200lbs. He takes in about 2700 cals to maintain (find this out for you as an individual).

Its his first time cutting and he’s nervous about losing muscle and besides, he’s in no hurry, so he starts conservatively at a reduction of say…300 cals per day. He consumes 1g/lb of protein. This gives 800 cals of protein. Leaving about 1500 cals for fat, or 165g.

This is about 1/3 pro and 2/3 fat. Again SOME do best on fat staying “high” while cutting. Not only due to physiological idiosyncracies but also for improved satiety and craving control.

Others do better by keeping protein up some and going about 50/50 (or even 60/40). Thus giving our 200lb lifter about 300g pro and 120g fat.

Once you are adapted, try both and see how you fare. And from there, mix the two in a random fashion for potential added benefit.

Make “heads” the FAT DAY with a 33/66 ratio and “tails” the PROTEIN DAY with a 50/50 ratio. Then flip each day.

But again, I want everyone to have a good 2 month period where we “shift the internal masses”. Let your body adapt fully, find your caloric set point, and see how long you should CHO load and with what foods during this time.

This is your foundation. Then you can “throw some paint on the walls” to see where you progress best either in bulking or cutting.

Best,
DH

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
DJS wrote:
Pumped… this was your first carbup right? You weighed in right before? Just trying to get all the facts. you came from another diet… what was the difference in calories from that one to this one?

This was right before the 2nd carb up, first one was last Sunday.

GSD (basically very low calorie AD) finished ~5 weeks ago, went up to about 260p/100-150c/75g so about 2300 calories until about 2-3 weeks ago and have been on the AD since

Thinking about dropping from 2700 calories, 235p/30c/180f that I’m at now to 2500 calories, 260p/30c/150f this week but I’d like to hear Tribulus’ and DH’s opinion. [/quote]

I like it. Rob has done a great service with his fantastic book.

It’s largely dependent upon psychology in my experience. Some, particulary some of the women I’ve worked with, cannot pull the plug on the sweets when they have a longer/traditional loading period.

Both work well if you apply the principles of controlled caloric surplus and controlled caloric deficit while only loading for the appropriate time period.

Its all the same concept at the base level, although I think the AD is better for bodybuilders wanting to gain muscle faster. But again, its really about caloric intake and CHO timing/volume.

Best,
DH

[quote]Philo wrote:
What do you think about Rob Faigin�´s recommends to carb-up in short cycles and only for single meals? Every 3rd to 4th day 250-300g of Carbs for the last or last two melas of the day instead of a big carb-load for a whole day or even an whole weekend? I think it sounds really good. 250g of carbs on wed and even so on sun, instead of 500g only on sun.[/quote]

[quote]DJS wrote:
ok… Lets get this sucker back on the top. Maybe DH will see it and help out pumped. Dang kids with your rowdy plans!

I am into my second week back on the AD. Just to let other AD vets know who have maybe hopped off the diet, I skipped the induction phase this time around because I had done the AD for 4.5 months earlier this year.

Getting back into it was a breeze. Body picked it right up. No digestive issues, no energy problems either lifting or otherwise. I am going to stick with 18x bodyweight for a few weeks though to be sure I am fully adadpted before I start adding calories.[/quote]

Leo is over the top to a whole new level. Its both frightening and entertaining. BUT, without a doubt, I LOVE the OTS programs (BBB and Titan). Although they may need tempered a bit for some, the concepts are excellent.

So its kinda ironic…they were way ahead of the curve on training and the AD, and yet they look ridiculous with all this goofy hyperbole and such.

DH

[quote]DJS wrote:
ha ha ha… ok so I love the anabolic diet. Its great. But i thought you guys would get a kick out of this. I just stumbled upon it while surfing the web looking for AD stuff. Such scummy marketing…

http://www.otsdirect.com/pages/anabolic_diet.html

[/quote]

[quote]DH wrote:
Once you are adapted, you can monkey with the macros (within reason). Now Ive seen two types of people respond a bit differently. Some, once fully adapted, do best on keeping fat high even with a caloric deficit. For example: say a lifter is 200lbs. He takes in about 2700 cals to maintain (find this out for you as an individual).

Its his first time cutting and he’s nervous about losing muscle and besides, he’s in no hurry, so he starts conservatively at a reduction of say…300 cals per day. He consumes 1g/lb of protein. This gives 800 cals of protein. Leaving about 1500 cals for fat, or 165g.

This is about 1/3 pro and 2/3 fat. Again SOME do best on fat staying “high” while cutting. Not only due to physiological idiosyncracies but also for improved satiety and craving control.

Others do better by keeping protein up some and going about 50/50 (or even 60/40). Thus giving our 200lb lifter about 300g pro and 120g fat.

Once you are adapted, try both and see how you fare. And from there, mix the two in a random fashion for potential added benefit.

Make “heads” the FAT DAY with a 33/66 ratio and “tails” the PROTEIN DAY with a 50/50 ratio. Then flip each day.

But again, I want everyone to have a good 2 month period where we “shift the internal masses”. Let your body adapt fully, find your caloric set point, and see how long you should CHO load and with what foods during this time.

This is your foundation. Then you can “throw some paint on the walls” to see where you progress best either in bulking or cutting.

Best,
DH
pumped340 wrote:
DJS wrote:
Pumped… this was your first carbup right? You weighed in right before? Just trying to get all the facts. you came from another diet… what was the difference in calories from that one to this one?

This was right before the 2nd carb up, first one was last Sunday.

GSD (basically very low calorie AD) finished ~5 weeks ago, went up to about 260p/100-150c/75g so about 2300 calories until about 2-3 weeks ago and have been on the AD since

Thinking about dropping from 2700 calories, 235p/30c/180f that I’m at now to 2500 calories, 260p/30c/150f this week but I’d like to hear Tribulus’ and DH’s opinion.

[/quote]

Hey DH, just seeing this now as I just moved back into college and things have been pretty hectic. Man I have gained A LOT of fat since starting on the 1st. Idk if it’s because I jumped from ~2300 to 2700 or because of the diet itself but my waist is up about 5/8in, my skinfolds have shot up A LOT.

Most definition is gone…and I’m almost the same weight. Help?? I brought fat down 30g and protein up 20g so I’m at 2500 calories now but still

Thanks a lot, I’m really hoping I can get this to work for me like you and trib

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Hey DH, just seeing this now as I just moved back into college and things have been pretty hectic. Man I have gained A LOT of fat since starting on the 1st. Idk if it’s because I jumped from ~2300 to 2700 or because of the diet itself but my waist is up about 5/8in, my skinfolds have shot up A LOT.

Most definition is gone…and I’m almost the same weight. Help?? I brought fat down 30g and protein up 20g so I’m at 2500 calories now but still

Thanks a lot, I’m really hoping I can get this to work for me like you and trib

[/quote]

Pure guessing here, but could it be because you jumped from 2300 to 2700 directly, AND switching from a ‘carb adapted’ to a ‘fat adapted’ state ?

It is also possible that 2700 is above your maintenance, no mater your diet.
Finally, it may be a state of transition, and as soon as your calories will drop, fat will drop too, and more than before.

I hope DH will come to the rescue.

Regards,
Guillaume.

I always recommend taking in the same calories to start the diet.

Just how often do you workout? What does an average day look like and what does a load look like?

How much water are you drinking?

For this to be actual fat gain is HIGHLY unlikely. Seems more like your body is having issues with fluids.

DH

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
DH wrote:
Once you are adapted, you can monkey with the macros (within reason). Now Ive seen two types of people respond a bit differently. Some, once fully adapted, do best on keeping fat high even with a caloric deficit. For example: say a lifter is 200lbs. He takes in about 2700 cals to maintain (find this out for you as an individual).

Its his first time cutting and he’s nervous about losing muscle and besides, he’s in no hurry, so he starts conservatively at a reduction of say…300 cals per day. He consumes 1g/lb of protein. This gives 800 cals of protein. Leaving about 1500 cals for fat, or 165g.

This is about 1/3 pro and 2/3 fat. Again SOME do best on fat staying “high” while cutting. Not only due to physiological idiosyncracies but also for improved satiety and craving control.

Others do better by keeping protein up some and going about 50/50 (or even 60/40). Thus giving our 200lb lifter about 300g pro and 120g fat.

Once you are adapted, try both and see how you fare. And from there, mix the two in a random fashion for potential added benefit.

Make “heads” the FAT DAY with a 33/66 ratio and “tails” the PROTEIN DAY with a 50/50 ratio. Then flip each day.

But again, I want everyone to have a good 2 month period where we “shift the internal masses”. Let your body adapt fully, find your caloric set point, and see how long you should CHO load and with what foods during this time.

This is your foundation. Then you can “throw some paint on the walls” to see where you progress best either in bulking or cutting.

Best,
DH
pumped340 wrote:
DJS wrote:
Pumped… this was your first carbup right? You weighed in right before? Just trying to get all the facts. you came from another diet… what was the difference in calories from that one to this one?

This was right before the 2nd carb up, first one was last Sunday.

GSD (basically very low calorie AD) finished ~5 weeks ago, went up to about 260p/100-150c/75g so about 2300 calories until about 2-3 weeks ago and have been on the AD since

Thinking about dropping from 2700 calories, 235p/30c/180f that I’m at now to 2500 calories, 260p/30c/150f this week but I’d like to hear Tribulus’ and DH’s opinion.

Hey DH, just seeing this now as I just moved back into college and things have been pretty hectic. Man I have gained A LOT of fat since starting on the 1st. Idk if it’s because I jumped from ~2300 to 2700 or because of the diet itself but my waist is up about 5/8in, my skinfolds have shot up A LOT.

Most definition is gone…and I’m almost the same weight. Help?? I brought fat down 30g and protein up 20g so I’m at 2500 calories now but still

Thanks a lot, I’m really hoping I can get this to work for me like you and trib

[/quote]

[quote]DH wrote:
I always recommend taking in the same calories to start the diet.

Just how often do you workout? What does an average day look like and what does a load look like?

How much water are you drinking?

For this to be actual fat gain is HIGHLY unlikely. Seems more like your body is having issues with fluids.

DH

[/quote]

Hm, If it’s not fat gain why would I have lost so much definition in addition to calipers being so much higher and waistline being up?

To address your questions, I workout 4 days a week using Wednler’s 5/3/1…strength gain has been pretty good on most lifts.

I’m not sure if you wanted me to list specific foods but everything has been on the approved list, generally higher quality too (as in no sausage, pepperoni, etc…mainly eggs, chicken, steak, fish, a little bacon, EVOO, veggies, etc…). Before it was 2700 calories, 240p/30c/180f…I have since moved it to 2500 calories, 260p/30c/150f and it seems a little better, like the fat isn’t coming on as fast (like there was an initial really bad effect of the diet and that has slowed down mostly but obviously I still have all the fat or whatever that was added in that time).

I haven’t been drinking a ton of water since I got on campus Thursday but before that it was about 12-16 cups a day and it’s still pretty close to that now

Thanks man

Load days have been close to 2700 calories 160p/350c/75f and that hasn’t changed. Seems like I definitely look best on Sunday mornings after the first day of carbing up but stomach is flatter since it’s been overnight since I’ve eaten. Although at my bf% there’s not a huge change or anything

I’m not familiar with the program. IF its strength/PL based then the volume may be “low”.

If possible, try getting in a very light circuit type workout before your loads (or even on the load). Much like Dan Duchaine advocted. This needs to be light as we aren’t looking to incur much damage but rather depletion.

Get to 2400 cals and keep your loading to no more than 30-36 hours. Follow my list of load suggestions.

Ride this out at 2400 cals for a month.

DH

Hey DH,

Just a question. Why is Dr Mauro Di Pasquale such a huge advocate of red meat? Assuming, adequate protein intake to support/maintain growth, should it really matter if you are predominately eating white (chicken, fish) or red meat (beef) while on the Anabolic Diet?

Is there something red meat has that white meat does not? Perhaps it is just me, but I find it much easier to sleep when I eat less fats and sticks to the white meat groups (at dinner)

Also a question with the carb loads. I seem to be struggling to really eat anything on the 2nd day of the carb load. The first carb load, I just eat as much clean sources as possible, usually 3500-3800 calories. The problem is such that the 2nd day, I feel too bloated and really struggle to eat anything. I think its either I have a pathetic apetite, or I need to do some cardio so that I can supercompensate better (does that make sense)? Also is it okay if 30-40% of my calories come from full milk, or should I really be eating predominately eating complex carbs.

Cheers.

[quote]andyr wrote:
Is there something red meat has that white meat does not?
[/quote]

Fat. If you prefer to eat white meat, you will have to add more fat from oils or whatever.

[quote]andyr wrote:
The problem is such that the 2nd day, I feel too bloated and really struggle to eat anything.
[/quote]

You are not required to do a full 2 days carb load, I am myself doing only a 12H carb load (from 9AM to 9PM, on sunday). The carb load range is from 12H to 48H.

Regards,
Guillaume.

[quote]andyr wrote:
Hey DH,

Just a question. Why is Dr Mauro Di Pasquale such a huge advocate of red meat? Assuming, adequate protein intake to support/maintain growth, should it really matter if you are predominately eating white (chicken, fish) or red meat (beef) while on the Anabolic Diet?

Is there something red meat has that white meat does not? Perhaps it is just me, but I find it much easier to sleep when I eat less fats and sticks to the white meat groups (at dinner)

Also a question with the carb loads. I seem to be struggling to really eat anything on the 2nd day of the carb load. The first carb load, I just eat as much clean sources as possible, usually 3500-3800 calories. The problem is such that the 2nd day, I feel too bloated and really struggle to eat anything. I think its either I have a pathetic apetite, or I need to do some cardio so that I can supercompensate better (does that make sense)? Also is it okay if 30-40% of my calories come from full milk, or should I really be eating predominately eating complex carbs.

Cheers.[/quote]

Saturated fats increase testosterone. If you want to eat lean meat with dinner then get your red meat earlier in the day.

Is there something red meat has that white meat does not? Perhaps it is just me, but I find it much easier to sleep when I eat less fats and sticks to the white meat groups (at dinner)

[quote]DJS wrote:
andyr wrote:
Hey DH,

Just a question. Why is Dr Mauro Di Pasquale such a huge advocate of red meat? Assuming, adequate protein intake to support/maintain growth, should it really matter if you are predominately eating white (chicken, fish) or red meat (beef) while on the Anabolic Diet?
Also a question with the carb loads. I seem to be struggling to really eat anything on the 2nd day of the carb load. The first carb load, I just eat as much clean sources as possible, usually 3500-3800 calories. The problem is such that the 2nd day, I feel too bloated and really struggle to eat anything. I think its either I have a pathetic apetite, or I need to do some cardio so that I can supercompensate better (does that make sense)? Also is it okay if 30-40% of my calories come from full milk, or should I really be eating predominately eating complex carbs.

Cheers.

Saturated fats increase testosterone. If you want to eat lean meat with dinner then get your red meat earlier in the day.[/quote]

Well I would say saturated fats MAY increase testosterone. Even if it does, I doubt it would be something significant if we were to measure it in lab conditions.

Can’t you just eat fatty fish?

[quote]DH wrote:
I’m not familiar with the program. IF its strength/PL based then the volume may be “low”.

If possible, try getting in a very light circuit type workout before your loads (or even on the load). Much like Dan Duchaine advocted. This needs to be light as we aren’t looking to incur much damage but rather depletion.

Get to 2400 cals and keep your loading to no more than 30-36 hours. Follow my list of load suggestions.

Ride this out at 2400 cals for a month.

DH
[/quote]

-OK my loads have been 36 hours, these times actually seem to be what I’m not having as much trouble with and look better. Basically its saturday for my first 5 out of 6 meals and same on sunday (saturday 8-9am - sunday 8pm last carb meal).

I’m at 2500 calories now with 2700 on loads…so basically keep things the same or did you mean lower on loads too? It actually seems like I’m losing weight since I got on campus. Like I mentioned before, last week I went from 2700 to 2500 and was up to 187 by thursday morning but was 184 saturday morning. After carb load I was 185 or so on monday and 183.6 today…not trying to lose weight really so I was almost considering going back to 2700. Whats pissing me off is my waist was 32 1/8in. (up from 31.5 when I started) on Thursday at 187 and it was exactly the same this morning but I’m about 3.5lb. lighter! so that sucks…

Edit: Oh and about the volume, I guess it depends on you definition of low volume. It’s 4 workouts per week hitting every 2x/week. Workouts are 8-10 work sets, 15-16 sets if you count the warm up/ramping sets. And although this would effect the carb load it seems like most of the fat was really put on during the low carb/high fat period.

Well that volume looks quite sufficient.

Ride this thing out. Stay where you are at. You can feel free to tweak food choices but keep intake the same. I too felt this way a bit at first, then started to drop fat like nuts when I started. I let that go till I was happy, then began a systematic increase toward gaining. I like it slow and conservative most of the time.

You may well need 4-6 weeks to really adjust and have your body get the fluid levels settled. Hang in there.

DH

Red meat contains iron, B-vitamins, and creatine. These seem to help folks feel better and stronger. But the caveat is that it should be quality meat. Not that 70/30 stuff etc…

Its also tougher to get saturated fat if you eliminate red meat. Not impossible obviously, but harder and less tasty.


Try doing one of your workouts on Sunday and see if that gives you a bit more CHO room and some added desire. I like Sunday workouts myself. The pump is great.

DH

[quote]andyr wrote:
Hey DH,

Just a question. Why is Dr Mauro Di Pasquale such a huge advocate of red meat? Assuming, adequate protein intake to support/maintain growth, should it really matter if you are predominately eating white (chicken, fish) or red meat (beef) while on the Anabolic Diet?

Is there something red meat has that white meat does not? Perhaps it is just me, but I find it much easier to sleep when I eat less fats and sticks to the white meat groups (at dinner)

Also a question with the carb loads. I seem to be struggling to really eat anything on the 2nd day of the carb load. The first carb load, I just eat as much clean sources as possible, usually 3500-3800 calories. The problem is such that the 2nd day, I feel too bloated and really struggle to eat anything. I think its either I have a pathetic apetite, or I need to do some cardio so that I can supercompensate better (does that make sense)? Also is it okay if 30-40% of my calories come from full milk, or should I really be eating predominately eating complex carbs.

Cheers.[/quote]

Thanks for the response DH,

Just another very odd question. I have been eating over 30g of fiber, but not feeling very regular lately.

After trial and error, I “think” the reason for this, is because I cut out a dairy completely. A am now eating a lot of dairy in conjunction with 20g of fiber (through vegetables). I have no idea, but this seems to have solved the problem.

Am I getting deficient in something when I take the cheese out?

Does anyone know of a resource to best figure out how get proper macros. I’m not afraid of doing the math myself, but it would make getting the right foods easier. Seems to me, it would be great to be able to plug some values of certain foods into an Excel spread sheet and get the results of what and how much one should be consuming.

I look at food and read the back label, then say to myself. “Now I gotta figure out what this breaks down to, and how much I should have.”

Perhaps what seems most confusing is adding several different foods to make a decent meal. Plus adding in some variety to keep things interesting.

Sometimes it can seem overwhelming to read this thread and try to figure out how much time it is going to take me to “tweak” my macros just so to get the desired results. How long does it take you guys to figure out what you should eat, how much you should have and when you can have it? People who are able to do this get my respect because I know it’s time consuming and maybe a little frustrating.

[quote]Philo wrote:
What do you think about Rob Faigin�´s recommends to carb-up in short cycles and only for single meals? Every 3rd to 4th day 250-300g of Carbs for the last or last two melas of the day instead of a big carb-load for a whole day or even an whole weekend? I think it sounds really good. 250g of carbs on wed and even so on sun, instead of 500g only on sun.[/quote]

I can tell you from experience that NHE is a great and very easily implemented plan. I feel great on fat, protein and vegetables, but I also like to lift weights. NHE gives me just enough glycogen to help me perform well in the gym. I highly recommend his book; it’s well written and worth trying.

[quote]steve.rt wrote:
Does anyone know of a resource to best figure out how get proper macros. I’m not afraid of doing the math myself, but it would make getting the right foods easier. Seems to me, it would be great to be able to plug some values of certain foods into an Excel spread sheet and get the results of what and how much one should be consuming.

I look at food and read the back label, then say to myself. “Now I gotta figure out what this breaks down to, and how much I should have.”

Perhaps what seems most confusing is adding several different foods to make a decent meal. Plus adding in some variety to keep things interesting.

Sometimes it can seem overwhelming to read this thread and try to figure out how much time it is going to take me to “tweak” my macros just so to get the desired results. How long does it take you guys to figure out what you should eat, how much you should have and when you can have it? People who are able to do this get my respect because I know it’s time consuming and maybe a little frustrating. [/quote]

I use fitday.com. It is a free nutritional database. You can create custom foods as well and it will remember them.